fraazx
Member
- Feb 6, 2018
- 484
- 801
- 317
Yeah, um, remember this comment here? I really want to know what happened.
I've been fairly critical of the changes, but I'll acknowledge some improvements. Mainly trying to find justifications for the changes, and where to go from here. While I find pixelart charming, the reduced fidelity puts more emphasis on strong character design and posing which is a lot for a first time indie dev. Also it's a hard balance between dark tone and cartoonish. Even acclaimed titles like Lisa struggle with it. Development was pretty sluggish before this, and Vel is clearly more comfortable with his cg artstyle than pixel art. He wasn't really doing anything with level design, and the different zones were fairly random in how they were connected. I did still enjoy the sense of exploration which I miss in this linear progression. If everything is going to be this art style, then I think Saria's character profile should at least match the tenet outfit. I have an idea so you don't need to redraw all the other assets I'll explain later. Now that it's a VN, conditionals and branching narrative are easier than ever. Corruption can be as simple as a single value affected by cutscene choices. Give dialogue a neutral, corrupt, and "chaste" version. Give some consequence to being too corrupt or being too much of a prude. If you're feeling generous make tenet specific cutscenes. Clearly at some point you changed your mind on Saria being a mercenary to a samurai and it's been divisive. Why not keep the backstory options and character creation? There's that completely unexplained samurai outfit that appears in the tenet selection. Let players choose which outfit to start with based on the character creation!
Character progression, leveling, items, combat, and corruption have all never worked. There just aren't enough encounters for leveling. You could implement a hub, zones, and random encounters like CoC without a bunch of new assets, but he's struggling with just finishing linear progression as is so let's move on. The stamina, off-guard, endurance, will, clothes, health, and tenet mechanics were all a mess, and what triggers enemies into doing lewd attacks is too random. Never ending fights was a big flaw in previous versions as well. It's never been clear what Vel wanted to do with corruption. Is it just another health meter when you're stripped? Is being stripped supposed to be a toggle for the adult content? Is it an alternative to physical attacks like mental/magic? I love the idea of corruption, but it was way too slow to be used without serious grinding in the earlier versions. The body part breakdown was also way too complicated and random. There needs to be a tutorial section or a little dialogue showing Saria can't get out of every fight with brawn alone, and she may need to use her other assets. This should at least be the 2nd encounter and give you a starting corruption/lewd card. It's also a good chance to introduce the tenet system as Saria literally steals the clothes off the roughnecks back while interrogating them and figuring out how she's going to sneak into their hideout. Makes the dialogue more believable too.
I think there should be a single health bar and maybe an excitement bar that builds up with each turn which limits how long fights can last and keep it consistent for Saria and enemies. With an excitement bar, using corruption/lewd cards could require a baseline level of excitement so you can't spam them at the start of a fight and you have an idea when lewd attacks will start appearing from enemies. Once excitement is maxed it could cause stance bypassing damage and reset. This means gameplay isn't a binary between combat and lewd, and it doesn't trap you the way sensitivity did previously. With a single health meter for Saria and enemies, lewd cards are a high risk/high damage moves that can greatly weaken/damage enemies but also increase excitement further, limiting when they can be used. I would make it more streamlined how torn clothes, the tenet system, and cards work as well. You can begin a fight with a set of clothes/tenet on or off. Clothes tear at fixed health percentages and increase the rate excitement builds up each turn. You can't mix and match tenets and cards. Most cards should be tenet specific and different tenets should have baseline excitement levels, you know sexy outfits. This means you don't need to redraw every card for each tenet combination. When you're naked you no longer have access to tenet cards, but a baseline excitement level giving you constant access to lewd attacks for glass cannon gameplay.
But what about deck building? It's a balancing nightmare and you're already spinning so many plates. If you want customizable decks, I'd get rid of tenets, fetishes, stances, stats and all other mechanics entirely and do a pure cardgame like hearthstone. Everything is just cards you find/unlock. You have a turn, your enemy has a turn, you can only play cards in your hand and only what your pool allows. Maybe make tenet a field card and you can only use one in each deck. Your character creation gives you a single unique tenet card, and it also decides your character profile.
Finally all of this could have been ok if Vel was less defensive and more forthcoming. He had months to tell backers he wants to/needs to change direction. He could still win people back if he just communicates.
Character progression, leveling, items, combat, and corruption have all never worked. There just aren't enough encounters for leveling. You could implement a hub, zones, and random encounters like CoC without a bunch of new assets, but he's struggling with just finishing linear progression as is so let's move on. The stamina, off-guard, endurance, will, clothes, health, and tenet mechanics were all a mess, and what triggers enemies into doing lewd attacks is too random. Never ending fights was a big flaw in previous versions as well. It's never been clear what Vel wanted to do with corruption. Is it just another health meter when you're stripped? Is being stripped supposed to be a toggle for the adult content? Is it an alternative to physical attacks like mental/magic? I love the idea of corruption, but it was way too slow to be used without serious grinding in the earlier versions. The body part breakdown was also way too complicated and random. There needs to be a tutorial section or a little dialogue showing Saria can't get out of every fight with brawn alone, and she may need to use her other assets. This should at least be the 2nd encounter and give you a starting corruption/lewd card. It's also a good chance to introduce the tenet system as Saria literally steals the clothes off the roughnecks back while interrogating them and figuring out how she's going to sneak into their hideout. Makes the dialogue more believable too.
I think there should be a single health bar and maybe an excitement bar that builds up with each turn which limits how long fights can last and keep it consistent for Saria and enemies. With an excitement bar, using corruption/lewd cards could require a baseline level of excitement so you can't spam them at the start of a fight and you have an idea when lewd attacks will start appearing from enemies. Once excitement is maxed it could cause stance bypassing damage and reset. This means gameplay isn't a binary between combat and lewd, and it doesn't trap you the way sensitivity did previously. With a single health meter for Saria and enemies, lewd cards are a high risk/high damage moves that can greatly weaken/damage enemies but also increase excitement further, limiting when they can be used. I would make it more streamlined how torn clothes, the tenet system, and cards work as well. You can begin a fight with a set of clothes/tenet on or off. Clothes tear at fixed health percentages and increase the rate excitement builds up each turn. You can't mix and match tenets and cards. Most cards should be tenet specific and different tenets should have baseline excitement levels, you know sexy outfits. This means you don't need to redraw every card for each tenet combination. When you're naked you no longer have access to tenet cards, but a baseline excitement level giving you constant access to lewd attacks for glass cannon gameplay.
But what about deck building? It's a balancing nightmare and you're already spinning so many plates. If you want customizable decks, I'd get rid of tenets, fetishes, stances, stats and all other mechanics entirely and do a pure cardgame like hearthstone. Everything is just cards you find/unlock. You have a turn, your enemy has a turn, you can only play cards in your hand and only what your pool allows. Maybe make tenet a field card and you can only use one in each deck. Your character creation gives you a single unique tenet card, and it also decides your character profile.
Finally all of this could have been ok if Vel was less defensive and more forthcoming. He had months to tell backers he wants to/needs to change direction. He could still win people back if he just communicates.
Well it's an awful lot to ask for their money then.
Last edited:
He resolved one issue and created new ones. It's unintuitive that stance is something that changes with every action but doesn't match the damage of a card, and the buffs/debuffs are all 1 turn abilities when you only have at most 2 actions available makes them useless. Enemy attacks can occur in any of the 3 action slots of a turn, so you have no way of planning what stance you want to begin or end a turn in, or a way to recover when trapped in a "bad" stance. Previously there was a speed stat. Give everyone a speed stat that determines the number of actions they can take per turn, and highest always goes first unless stunned. A little flavor text and good character design could convey who should be able to get the first move off. The cards that raise dodge could also increase speed. Stance is set at the beginning of a turn, but keep the damage modifiers the same. Only a few cards can change stance midturn and they take up an action slot you could use for an attack card.
For how much people shit on generic RPGM games sometimes, the benefit they often have over standard VN's is the illusion of player agency. I can choose with what quests to engage. I can choose what character or fetish to pursue. Despite how limited a world may be, it's my decision in how I interact with it.
VN's take a lot more talent to craft something that gives that same feeling because now you have to guide it instead of just leave it in the hands of the player to interact with your world. Like the Lilith games sell themselves based on the artwork but do you really feel part of the world when your choices are, "So I say, but...." and "Assertively!". Wait, where are either of these options leading me? How will this impact the world? But on the other end of the spectrum you have something like "Our Red String" where your decisions feel weighty and you see their logical outcome later on.
Had this game started as a VN, I think it would have occupied the same lane as something like a Lilith game on the back of inarguably fantastic artwork no matter how its story was presented. But it started as something else. Was it grindy to get the scenes you wanted? Yes. But it was grindy for the scenes YOU wanted, which made it feel different.
Brother Penetrātus
Member
- Aug 12, 2018
- 378
- 1,109
- 307
OMFG! Came back after a year or so just to discover he nuked the whole game into some abomination. 
Not worth playing anymore, but the thread is pure gold for sure.
Not worth playing anymore, but the thread is pure gold for sure.
Other then Karryns Prison is there any other games like what this used to be?
From what I've seen/read the dev is a bit of a cunt & the remake made this boring as hell.
The arts good so Ill just look it up once the game gets abandoned
Anyone suggest games that are similar to the previous version? (before the card stuff)
From what I've seen/read the dev is a bit of a cunt & the remake made this boring as hell.
The arts good so Ill just look it up once the game gets abandoned
Anyone suggest games that are similar to the previous version? (before the card stuff)
Lisa, just looking at Lisa you can see how it's more than a major inspiration from the start. Even now, with major revisions, Lisa's DNA is undeniable.
By Lisa, are you guys talking about this game? https://f95zone.to/threads/lisa-v2-853-palegrass.86725/
Cause I'm not going to lie, while there's a million screenshots, none of them seem to show gameplay, the 3d art is atrocious (high quality in terms of fidelity, but the style is awful) and the description makes zero effort to describe how the game itself actually plays. On top of that, even looking at some reviews there's like no mention of gameplay, other than hints of it being a sandboxy VN...which is pretty much as far from Karryn's Prison or the old Saria Reclaimed as you can get tbh.
Cause I'm not going to lie, while there's a million screenshots, none of them seem to show gameplay, the 3d art is atrocious (high quality in terms of fidelity, but the style is awful) and the description makes zero effort to describe how the game itself actually plays. On top of that, even looking at some reviews there's like no mention of gameplay, other than hints of it being a sandboxy VN...which is pretty much as far from Karryn's Prison or the old Saria Reclaimed as you can get tbh.
MethuselahJones
Newbie
- Nov 14, 2020
- 61
- 113
- 133
They're referring to LISA: The Painful/Joyful.
You must be registered to see the links
You must be registered to see the links
Thank god it was a different Lisa, cause whew lad, the one on here looks like ass lmao.
I've been glancing at this game for some time now because the artwork looks incredible, but do i understand it correctly?
Two patches ago this was a very grindy combat focused RPG with very little story.
Last patch it was a rogue-like card battle game.
Now it is a visual novel in RPGM?
I never got far into the older versions and i haven't tried the new one to form an opinion, but if i understand it correctly, this has got to be one of the wildest series of swinging directions i've ever seen.
Two patches ago this was a very grindy combat focused RPG with very little story.
Last patch it was a rogue-like card battle game.
Now it is a visual novel in RPGM?
I never got far into the older versions and i haven't tried the new one to form an opinion, but if i understand it correctly, this has got to be one of the wildest series of swinging directions i've ever seen.
Marlin Brandy
Member
- Aug 18, 2018
- 353
- 764
- 275
Why create a patreon if he has no need for the donations and doing it for the joy of what it is? Why not just stick with the hosting platform and why create a game that you plan to sell once complete? Why not, make the game free for life? Over 99% of his donations/followers came after the first sights of his game. Yes he's free to do as he pleases but those who support him and his game are rightfully upset about drastic game changes. If I gave you apples for an apple pie then took away the apples and gave you avocados to be used for the apple pie you wouldn't be happy about it even though both are fruits. Why did he change his direction of the game entirely after 2 years of support? If he didn't care about the communities ideas why did he post most of his polls on the patreon within the last 6 months? Clearly he likes the attention and money, who doesn't like be appreciated for their work financially and fame.
shundi82
Member
- Sep 7, 2022
- 239
- 356
- 187
It's the Chinese Mod, that modifies + adds a ton of (erotic) stuff and makes the game even more interesting + challenging.
Usually it's always been kind of a hassle, because you first had to get the Chinese version, copy over the Chinese mod and then patch it with the English patch from ULMF. But right now you can just grab a pretty recent fully patched version on here, thanks to YokoSan:
https://f95zone.to/threads/magical-...ra-workshop-kagura-games.116302/post-11878172
ArmaSoldier512
Member
- Sep 28, 2017
- 150
- 268
- 202
What is that Sarah of the Rotation Cut game? Any screenshots? Trying to figure if worth investing time to install.Before I add to the list, just a quick heads up:
There are a ton of games, that are in the vicinity of all the mentioned games, that I like, but might feel too far removed from something like Karryn's Prison, ergo games like Caliross, Liz, Claire's Quest, The Agnietta, Naked Ambition, The Queendom of Lithzena etc., then there are the tons of pretty good games, that just get too samey too quickly for my taste - or that can only be found in the Translation part of F95 for a reason
Light-Space Love (it's still not very content rich and long in the tooth, but it's Karryn's ambitions are clear):
https://f95zone.to/threads/light-space-love-v0-43-halftilt.127735/
Succulence (play it for some time and you'll see, why it's not just a simple "Find the CGs" game, but goes pretty wide + deep):
https://f95zone.to/threads/succulence-v2-5-ae-r-nest.6339/
Magical Girl Celesphonia (try its CN Mod, if you liked the Vanilla experience):
https://f95zone.to/threads/magical-girl-celesphonia-v1-07-shimobashira-workshop-kagura-games.116302/
Sarah of the Rotation Cut:
https://f95zone.to/threads/rj155863-sarah-of-the-rotation-cut-v2-2-1-translation-v2-3-5.7676/
Corruption Town (kinda like Karryn's Bar mini game with some story attached):
https://f95zone.to/threads/corruption-town-v0-3g-boredbasmati.168818/
Succum Brewery (same as above, but with a few more light RPG elements; I really like it, but it still has a long way to go):
https://f95zone.to/threads/succum-brewery-v0-2-9-6a-limejuicegames.134566/
Mature Quest (it's intentionally old school and kinda long in the tooth, but it's got the right idea):
https://f95zone.to/threads/mature-quest-v1-1-t-soft.1214/
Star Knightess Aura (one of the games I've supported via Patreon. It's really great in its tech, its mechanics and its RPG elements - I'm just not a fan of its type of corruption - not because it's slow and sparse, which doesn't bother me - but because I don't like turning the protag into a dummy):
https://f95zone.to/threads/star-knightess-aura-v0-38-0-aura-dev.76764/
Ashley the Pirate (it's a tad stale for me, but a lot of people seem to really like it):
https://f95zone.to/threads/ashley-the-pirate-v0-5-0-1-yioruyioru.58083/
One last addition:
Some of these games really benefit from realtime upscaling with something like Magpie (I like to combo Anime4K UL + Jinc, don't forget to change the preset accordingly and then set it as the default):
You must be registered to see the links
shundi82
Member
- Sep 7, 2022
- 239
- 356
- 187
It's a deep corruption game with exploration + fighting with clothes damage, touching and fucking.
Out of the similar bunch of games like Sangeki of Gear, Rhode's Fortress etc. it's considered the best when it comes to the corruption part (battle-wise SoG and RsF have more "interesting" mechanics, though).
The dlsite screenshots are pretty small, but I guess it's better than nothing:
Fucking core memory unlocked, holy shit. I feel old now.
Marlin Brandy
Member
- Aug 18, 2018
- 353
- 764
- 275
You can want to pursue a passion free from the financial motive but still appreciate people throwing dollars your way. They are not mutually exclusive.
You can want to pursue a passion free from the financial motive but still appreciate people throwing dollars your way. They are not mutually exclusive.
I don't know about that. I agree that he is free to do as he pleases. Your analogy needs a bit more to flesh it out to this context. I would say it's something closer to:
Whether or not his donations came from the game, he clearly isn't letting it affect what he wants to do. I am not happy about the new direction, and that means I will walk away from supporting something I don't like.
There's no sense in attacking the author. It's not going to lead anywhere. Venting is great here, but it's also time to move on. As I've said before, appreciate what came out, download whatever version was your favourite for posterity, play that and stop supporting him until he releases something else you like. Then consider his track record and whether or not you should support him. Acting like the supporters are entitled to something is what I don't understand. I would say you can make that case against a creator that had explicitly promised a very specific concept then changed it, but in this case it's not applicable.
Look man, you can not want your vision compromised by patron/supporter suggestions and still ask them for opinions every now and then. He doesn't want to make the game his supporters want. Doesn't mean he can't ask for feedback.
I'm glad we agree. Great talking to you
Last edited: