Alas, looks like i'll never get that Penelope or Hanna content I was hoping for. Sigh.
- Thread starter xןʞ
- Start date
- Sep 30, 2017
- 274
- 646
The dreaded [Onhold] which is straight up abandoned for a lot of games.
I almost prefer "Abandoned"
At least it's honest.
At least it's honest.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,860
- 17,581
Sadly, I think it definitely applies here. It's not always true (see the thread for Lexi, for example), but usually it's a bad sign.
Sounds like abandonment which is a shame. Can't say that makes me likely to want to invest time in the new game, at least for some time no matter if it looks promising.
- May 11, 2017
- 3,109
- 10,931
The game is not technically abandoned yet.
I think it is bad form on the part of any creator to open a new project, and completely abandon the old one. The most glaring example of which is "Big Brother" being abandoned for "Glamour"... Nobody even fucking likes Glamour... Everyone was so into "Big Brother"... Ruined that franchise.
It's a GREAT idea of this creator to finally understand people give ZERO fucks about what is happening outside of the main story with the main character. This game could be fucking nearly COMPLETED if not for all the side story bullshit. Each and every render of some crazy unknown character doing some dumb shit nobody cares about is a render taken away from characters we interact with and care about... Imagine if other games did that shit really imagine it... Imagine in Good Girl Gone Bad if instead of following Ashley for some scenes they follow Arthur doing some nefarious shit. Nobody cares about that shit follow the fucking protagonist!
Also, when is the coma bitch gonna wake the fuck up? On the first day she is a big huge part of the story then she gets just buried and visit her once?
Creator says "people losing interest due to patreon support going down'... People are supporting less on patreon because releases are not coming frequently at all, and because peopel get sick of the bullshit with 3rd person side stories. If they took this game and kept it going and just stopped all the side shit and released it fairly regular it would be one of the top fucking games... but nope
I think it is bad form on the part of any creator to open a new project, and completely abandon the old one. The most glaring example of which is "Big Brother" being abandoned for "Glamour"... Nobody even fucking likes Glamour... Everyone was so into "Big Brother"... Ruined that franchise.
It's a GREAT idea of this creator to finally understand people give ZERO fucks about what is happening outside of the main story with the main character. This game could be fucking nearly COMPLETED if not for all the side story bullshit. Each and every render of some crazy unknown character doing some dumb shit nobody cares about is a render taken away from characters we interact with and care about... Imagine if other games did that shit really imagine it... Imagine in Good Girl Gone Bad if instead of following Ashley for some scenes they follow Arthur doing some nefarious shit. Nobody cares about that shit follow the fucking protagonist!
Also, when is the coma bitch gonna wake the fuck up? On the first day she is a big huge part of the story then she gets just buried and visit her once?
Creator says "people losing interest due to patreon support going down'... People are supporting less on patreon because releases are not coming frequently at all, and because peopel get sick of the bullshit with 3rd person side stories. If they took this game and kept it going and just stopped all the side shit and released it fairly regular it would be one of the top fucking games... but nope
- Jan 3, 2019
- 3,043
- 4,930
We may have a at least a new slonique in the making who says now he is not going to do the same with his new project when stuff dont go his way ?? The way he skipped the other game he may now even lose his other patreon too if his first release is a bust...
btw is it me or is his new game sounds a bit boring ?? if its really the life of lawyer i will be skipping his new game....... Boring...
btw is it me or is his new game sounds a bit boring ?? if its really the life of lawyer i will be skipping his new game....... Boring...
Last edited:
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,860
- 17,581
To me, the biggest problem with the side story was that it was poorly implemented. There were a lot of threads tying Manston in general to the criminals that could have made a stronger connection and made things more interesting. But the ties were, as you mentioned, to characters less cared about or not even appearing in the rest of the story. If I had spent more time getting close to Isabella, I might have cared about what happened to her mom. (Hell, either Isabella hadn't heard or she herself didn't seem to care.) If there were something more with Jessica, I might have cared that she was in the coma; after a while, I almost forgot about her completely. If I got attached to Mrs. Miller (and not just gotten blue-balled twice), I might have cared about the attack where Alyssa worked.
I don't think all of the side scenes were bad, either. I just think they were misplaced within the story. There were too many too soon, before any real attachment to the characters we did follow was established. With Alyssa, for instance, we only really learn why she goes out late at some seedy night club if we happen to go downstairs the first night at Mrs. Miller's, instead of waiting like she asked. We don't follow Alyssa's story enough, though, to get attached to her. Sure, we "rescue" her while out on a date with Mercedes and put her semi-conscious ass to bed, but there's no real time spent with her or her mom to build the kind of connection needed for the attack at her work to be anything more than a plot point.
While I do agree with White Phantom that there were too many things going on all at once, I think the result of that is the biggest problem for this game. It's a similar problem to what franchises like Star Trek run into: there are too many characters to control. With large ensemble casts, you generally have three choices: (1) they can be put into a lengthy show format, like a graphic novel or television series, where each character can get focus in individual issues or episodes, building our connection to each over time; (2) the creator can focus on a limited number of those, relegating the others to side / background characters; or (3) the creator can try to give them all equal focus, which almost always ends in shallow characters, so people tend not to care about any single one of them very much.
The latter of these is what's happened to Shadows over Manston. While there were definitely certain characters the carnal side of me wanted to sidle up to (OK, more than just "sidle"), I wasn't invested in any one of them really, even when I specifically made choices to give them more time.
- Feb 10, 2019
- 85
- 475
This is the kind of thing that had me drastically cut what I backed on Patreon. I've went from backing 14 games including this one to backing The Last Sovereign, City of Broken Dreamers and Seeds of Chaos because I got sick of updates drying up or devs abandoning games. It happens far too often. I don't even blame the dev if the funding is too low that's really it, the choice is try something new one way or the other. It's just super fucking annoying.
I'm not sure starting a new game was the best solution, that doesn't seem to ever end well. Most of the times I've seen it what happen is the dev puts themselves in a cycle of develop game but cancel due to lack of funds, build a new project and then cancel that for the same reason until nobody is willing to trust they'll finish the game. Drastically cutting the threads and making the game more focused might've been a better idea. As it is the new game has to be seriously good and grab people immediately or his basically going to be in the same situation of little funding. The fact his just given anyone willing to back him a big reason not to doesn't help.
It's a shame as the dev clearly is good at what they do. Hopefully the new game gains more traction :/.
I'm not sure starting a new game was the best solution, that doesn't seem to ever end well. Most of the times I've seen it what happen is the dev puts themselves in a cycle of develop game but cancel due to lack of funds, build a new project and then cancel that for the same reason until nobody is willing to trust they'll finish the game. Drastically cutting the threads and making the game more focused might've been a better idea. As it is the new game has to be seriously good and grab people immediately or his basically going to be in the same situation of little funding. The fact his just given anyone willing to back him a big reason not to doesn't help.
It's a shame as the dev clearly is good at what they do. Hopefully the new game gains more traction :/.
- Aug 22, 2018
- 25,781
- 88,768
Big Brother wasn't abandoned for Glamour, DS had given up on Big Brother long before.
Constant whining about damn near everything started turning the dev off long before he gave up to the point where updates were half arsed until he'd had enough.
As for your last point, no, not everyone was into Big Brother. It had a big following but it's hardly consisted of everyone.
- Nov 7, 2018
- 1,081
- 6,937
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Slonique is among the worst developers and produces games that are demonstrably dogshit. Shadows Over Manston is a well written game that simply started collapsing under the weight of too many branches in the storyline.We may have a at least a new slonique in the making who says now he is not going to do the same with his new project when stuff dont go his way ?? The way he skipped the other game he may now even lose his other patreon too if his first release is a bust...
btw is it me or is his new game sounds a bit boring ?? if its really the life of lawyer i will be skipping his new game....... Boring...
I think this game just got away from White Phantom. That's an easy thing to occur, especially for someone on their first attempt at a game. Sometimes it's difficult to restrain the creative juices once they get flowing. Also, allowing users to dictate storylines can really fuck things up if the game is not an open world sandbox. That rarely works well with multi-branching narratives.
He's been honest about his mistakes thus far and seems to have taken some of the criticism he's received in good faith and with an eye on how to avoid those mistakes in the future. This developer has talent. I'm looking forward to his next release. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he can eventually return to Shadows and finish it or re-release it.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,860
- 17,581
Well said, Korben. I couldn't agree more. White Phantom's real mistake was having too many branches to manage. The storytelling was good, the renders were excellent, and he even manages a "mini-game" (i.e., car racing) without tedium. And since it's his first go, I expected there to be potential issues. He's admitted his mistake and hopefully will improve over time. If his next game does well, maybe he'll have enough patrons to afford a team, which could then continue Shadows.
- Sep 18, 2018
- 2,068
- 2,027
- Jan 5, 2019
- 603
- 1,106
So the guy is still around, but he decided to make another game instead? Why?
The principal reason why i don't give to patreon.
It's a pity that this game is abandonned (it's not a secret, a huge part of onhold game = abandonned), it was one of the best game here
It's a pity that this game is abandonned (it's not a secret, a huge part of onhold game = abandonned), it was one of the best game here
- Oct 23, 2016
- 4,476
- 13,382
While I certainly can see that the game got away from him with the many branches, maybe he should have taken a hint earlier, with the small updates and irregular release schedule, he should have realized a lot sooner that the scope was just too massive and instead opt for a more focused story, maybe even leaving the bigger picture for a second game/chapter.
Also, while I really always try to see the best in people, abandoning this game and starting a new one is a shitty move, no matter what.
It will definitely not help him earn credibility and with me it's like this, I didn't back Shadows over Manston, because the updates came so rarely and often were insubstantial, now he abandons the game (okay sorry, he put it "on-hold" which in cases like this turns out to be the same in at least 9 out of 10 games), why the hell would I EVER seriously consider investing any money in this second game, after what happened before?
I won't. I just won't. Maybe if he updates the new game regularly for at least a year or 8-12 updates of an acceptable size, but not before that, not with this track record.
I don't mean to be harsh, there was a lot of stuff I liked in Shadows over Manston, but it never really went anywhere and with the many games started and abandoned in a year, that's just how it is.
Also, while I really always try to see the best in people, abandoning this game and starting a new one is a shitty move, no matter what.
It will definitely not help him earn credibility and with me it's like this, I didn't back Shadows over Manston, because the updates came so rarely and often were insubstantial, now he abandons the game (okay sorry, he put it "on-hold" which in cases like this turns out to be the same in at least 9 out of 10 games), why the hell would I EVER seriously consider investing any money in this second game, after what happened before?
I won't. I just won't. Maybe if he updates the new game regularly for at least a year or 8-12 updates of an acceptable size, but not before that, not with this track record.
I don't mean to be harsh, there was a lot of stuff I liked in Shadows over Manston, but it never really went anywhere and with the many games started and abandoned in a year, that's just how it is.
- Jul 24, 2018
- 241
- 125
- Sep 30, 2017
- 2,329
- 4,880
What a shame... this was a very intelligent game...I would have loved to see the final product.
ahhh... this is unfortunate. This was one of my favorites on this site. Pretty surprising that the plot wasn't planned out at all haha. I can see how that kind of approach might get convoluted and out and hand real quick.
My biggest concern is that the new game looks like it will be very vanilla.
My biggest concern is that the new game looks like it will be very vanilla.