VN Ren'Py Abandoned Stormside [v0.23.1.4] [Atemsiel]

[GreenOwl]

I actually wargamed this a while back and got the 21 paths down to 8 or so. Sure there were some tough choices involved but if radical cuts are needed to save this bitch I say go for it. Because at the end of the day, a lot of the paths with the LIs make no sense and I think trying to square that circle is probably what drove young Atemsiel to the brink of madness and despair.

So the bottom line is that if Stormside is going to survive then compromise is in order, which means potentially losing your dream path for an individual LI.

i think if you want to do something you should do it, without compromise. compromise on your artistic vision will only lead to a final product that doesnt satisfy the artist. imagine gadsby, but the author starts using the letter e halfway through because he underestimated the difficulty of writing that book. cutting a path after 3 years of development would be similar imo. but i know that most people rightfully prefer quick and easy results over artistic values, so i can understand that most people have a different opinion here.

 

[Daermon420]

i think if you want to do something you should do it, without compromise. compromise on your artistic vision will only lead to a final product that doesnt satisfy the artist. imagine gadsby, but the author starts using the letter e halfway through because he underestimated the difficulty of writing that book. cutting a path after 3 years of development would be similar imo. but i know that most people rightfully prefer quick and easy results over artistic values, so i can understand that most people have a different opinion here.

That's one of the silliest comparisons I've ever read. You honestly can't believe the difference between dozens (possibly even hundreds) of separate paths to juggle, each with its own renders and writing compares to an author using one extra letter of an alphabet at some points.

Like it or not, even just a few branching options can lead to a massive web of possibilities to account for. This game has far more than just a few branching choices. And we're not just talking a little more work here, we're talking never being able to possibly ever finish amounts of work.

Part of managing any project is making sure the scope of it is within your own ability to finish it. If it's not, either you alter your plans or you bring on help. And bringing on help in a creative project isn't always that helpful because all of a sudden you've got multiple creatives each doing their own thing which can lead to conflict and challenges integrating their work together into one cohesive whole. Plus having to actually pay the help, which is a hurdle all on its own.

 

[GreenOwl]

That's one of the silliest comparisons I've ever read. You honestly can't believe the difference between dozens (possibly even hundreds) of separate paths to juggle, each with its own renders and writing compares to an author using one extra letter of an alphabet at some points.

that statement only shows that you are not into literature, dont know why you would post this lol. but seriously try writing a story like this and you will see why gadsby is such an important work.

i agree to the rest though, if you treat it as a project of pure monetary value.
atemsiel stated before that there will be a game with 3 paths or no game at all, so i assumed his own vision takes priority over the income he makes from the game. i can be wrong about this.
in that case he would probably be able to increase his productivity and finish the game in a more reasonable timeframe, just like you said.

 

[Daermon420]

that statement only shows that you are not into literature, dont know why you would post this lol. but seriously try writing a story like this and you will see why gadsby is such an important work.

i agree to the rest though, if you treat it as a project of pure monetary value.
atemsiel stated before that there will be a game with 3 paths or no game at all, so i assumed his own vision takes priority over the income he makes from the game. i can be wrong about this.
in that case he would probably be able to increase his productivity and finish the game in a more reasonable timeframe, just like you said.

Gadsby was complicated to write because of a constraint he put upon himself. With this story Atemsiel is dealing with the exact opposite problem. Not enough constraints, too large a scope. They're fundamentally different issues. You can get around a self imposed constraint like not using e with clever writing. You can't get around the problems developing a game like this has with sheer scope creep with clever writing.

 

[Juerhullycin]

that statement only shows that you are not into literature, dont know why you would post this lol. but seriously try writing a story like this and you will see why gadsby is such an important work.

i agree to the rest though, if you treat it as a project of pure monetary value.
atemsiel stated before that there will be a game with 3 paths or no game at all, so i assumed his own vision takes priority over the income he makes from the game. i can be wrong about this.
in that case he would probably be able to increase his productivity and finish the game in a more reasonable timeframe, just like you said.

this has fuck all to do with how important Gatsby is. Your comparison is shit it would only hold any merit if F.Scott Fitzgerald would have faced the choice to integrate E to finish the great Gatsby or rewrite the whole Encyclopaedia Britannica (every edition separately) without the letter E that would be an apt comparison.

I would love for Atemsiel to finish his game without any cuts, and as he envisioned it. But we all know that this isn't realistic.

 

[GreenOwl]

this has fuck all to do with how important Gatsby is. Your comparison is shit it would only hold any merit if F.Scott Fitzgerald would have faced the choice to integrate E to finish the great Gatsby or rewrite the whole Encyclopaedia Britannica (every edition separately) without the letter E that would be an apt comparison.

I would love for Atemsiel to finish his game without any cuts, and as he envisioned it. But we all know that this isn't realistic.

wrong book gatsby != gadsby

 

[Juerhullycin]

wrong book gatsby != gadsby

well, you got me on a technicality. It seems like the rest of my argument is void.

now that you are right, the update will drop any minute with all the extra time Atemsiel didn't need because I got the wrong Book.

 

[GreenOwl]

Gadsby was complicated to write because of a constraint he put upon himself. With this story Atemsiel is dealing with the exact opposite problem. Not enough constraints, too large a scope. They're fundamentally different issues. You can get around a self imposed constraint like not using e with clever writing. You can't get around the problems developing a game like this has with sheer scope creep with clever writing.

i disagree, i see the choice to stick with the pathing as a constraint in itself. i dont want to derail this thread any longer. i just started it to have something to do during the copa del rey. the game is over so i am done. if you want to discuss this i would be happy to do this in dms.

 

[Merlin-Magic]

well, you got me on a technicality. It seems like the rest of my argument is void.

now that you are right, the update will drop any minute with all the extra time Atemsiel didn't need because I got the wrong Book.

Are you sure this is not the book you really needed?

 

[GreenOwl]

well, you got me on a technicality. It seems like the rest of my argument is void.

now that you are right, the update will drop any minute with all the extra time Atemsiel didn't need because I got the wrong Book.

"technicality" is when your whole argument is based on the wrong book. ok sure i guess. you didnt even know what book you where talking about. how can i take the rest of your argument serious if you cant even get the basis of your argument right.

1.

this has fuck all to do with how important Gatsby is.

it is the entire reason gadsby is important, you were talking about gatsby. and yes that is important for different reasons but nobody but you was talking about gatsby

2.

Your comparison is shit it would only hold any merit if F.Scott Fitzgerald would have faced the choice to integrate E to finish the great Gatsby

fitzgerald didnt face any choice including the letter e in his work named thE grEat gatsby. if he did he apparently failed at the title.

3.

or rewrite the whole Encyclopaedia Britannica (every edition separately) without the letter E that would be an apt comparison.

gadsby contains about 500000 words and is considered one of the most technically advanced novels of the 20th century. i dont see what a rewrite of the encyclopedia britannica has to do with my point or why you would even compare a game with a dictionary.
i was arguing about how artistic values and an authors vision can impact a creation and a how this possibly can lead to a lack of compromise. i dont see much artistic value in a dictionary and i also dont know what vision for the dicitonary the author had.

sry i really dont want to be mean here but i cant see any point in your message. maybe i am blind, if you want to discuss this, my dms are open, but i dont see a point in derailing this thread any further.

well, you got me on a technicality. It seems like the rest of my argument is void.

now that you are right, the update will drop any minute with all the extra time Atemsiel didn't need because I got the wrong Book.

this sounds a bit aggressive i dont know if i somehow hurt you. if i did i apologize. i did not intend to offend you. sometimes i come across as an asshole, but i can guarantee that my messages in this thread werent written with ill intend towards you or anybody else.