Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

Impious Monk's Leaving DNA has a new update out on

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. I sang its praises back when the demo was released. It was a very strong start, and I'm glad to see it continue. This first chapter continues the main murder mystery and has a bunch of brilliant scenes. Random thoughts below.

- Armin's bear suit story might just be the funniest thing I've seen in a while. Impious Monk does amazing work with mannerisms, body language and facial expressions and this scene is an excellent display of his skill.
- There is a scene where a bunch of colleagues have an intellectual discussion on the societal and legal case against incest. Jamie, a Harvard educated lawyer and one of the LIs, makes a dispassionate argument on why it's wrong and should be shunned and legislated against, even for cases between consenting adults. I don't 100% agree with her, but she has a strong argument, and successfully defends her position against challenges. I'm worried it'll elicit an unsavoury reaction on F95 :/
- Towards the end of the chapter Sean - MC's best friend - and his wife stage a mini-intervention and ask MC why he's not making a move on Jamie, who is clearly in love with him. Jamie is my (and, apparently, everyone's) favourite LI but MC has some really sensible reasons why he has trouble seeing Jamie in a sexual way and, surprisingly, it made perfect sense to me. This is also the scene where we see the first bit of real vulnerability from MC.

In my original post, I said I would consider adding the game to the OP after another update or two. Well, I see no reason to hold back anymore, so it has been added to the list!

Anyway, everyone should check it out! Just don't forget to click on Dreams on the main menu once you're done with the chapter

 

[Raife]

Impious Monk's Leaving DNA has a new update out on

You must be registered to see the links

. I sang its praises back when the demo was released. It was a very strong start, and I'm glad to see it continue. This first chapter continues the main murder mystery and has a bunch of brilliant scenes. Random thoughts below.

This is also the scene where we see the first bit of real vulnerability from MC.

I'm one of Impious's Patreons, but haven't managed to play the new update, yet. Your note certainly bumped it to the top of my priority list.

My one qualm about the (otherwise excellent) prologue was the MC's strong Gary Stu vibe, but it sounds like Chapter 1 takes a positive turn on that front.

 

[kotte]

I have started to go through the recommendations in this thread and tried A Long Journey and I think it is great!
A lot like the film Passengers, but with a twist!
And just as with the film, I found myself thinking a lot about the game after playing it. "What if" this, "I wonder if" that, etc., and that is a very good indication that a story has cought you!

I realize that I have stopped looking for games that is not made with Ren'Py. Not because Ren'Py is superior to the other frameworks, but simply because it seems like it has attracted the type of creators that focus on the story.
If you want to spend all your time walking around on a map - choose RPGM. If you want a FPS with some sexy cutscenes - choose Unity. If you're writing a story - chose Ren'Py.

But this time I was wrong (A long journey is made with Unity) and I am so glad that this thread helped me find it!

 

[EndlessNights]

I want to heartily second jufot's recommendation of Leaving DNA. I hadn't played the previous demo release so I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of content available for a Part One. It's already a very interesting story full of memorable characters and well worth playing.

The bar scenes in particular blew me away. It's quite difficult to write conversations involving as many as eight (!) characters and have each person come out with a distinct personality and distinct role in the interactions, but Impious Monk pulled it off. Even more impressively, several of the characters we hadn't seen before and one had only showed up very briefly, but you'll feel like you know each and every one of them very well by the time the scene shifts. That whole section of the game is a tour de force of writing in my view, and I greatly enjoyed everything from flirting with Sylvia to laughing at Armin's hilarious story to pondering the heavy moralism of the incest debate.

The only thing I'm not sold on yet are the LIs. I think pretty much all the characters are great, but I have my doubts that the available romantic options are necessarily good choices for Rockford. There are only going to be four love interests in total, and I've already pretty much written off two so there's a good chance my version of the MC is going to be forever alone. Even if that fate does come to pass, though, that just means I'm going to enjoy a great crime, workplace, and friendship VN rather than a romantic one.

Well, I think it's time to share some thoughts on some of the characters. I plan to cover two characters who are actual love interests today and two characters I wish were love interests tomorrow or later in the week.

Aghavni:

Aghavni is quickly becoming one of my favorite exes in any visual novel. In my experience, it's quite possible to forge a good friendship with an ex provided it wasn't some sort of betrayal that lead to the breakup and the fighting didn't get too bad before things ended -- and some people manage to do it even when there was a betrayal and heavy fighting though I don't quite know how. I like the dynamic Rockford and Aghavni have as friends; based on the flashback in the park, they seem much better suited to be buddies than lovers. They're both good, caring people who seem able to work well together and have a common passion for justice and a common empathy for victims. They also tend to show a healthy amount of respect for one another when not arguing about driving. I have no doubt their combined efforts will crack the case in time and hopefully help Rockford understand his past at least a little better.

I couldn't imagine actually getting back together with Aghavni if I were Rockford, though. You'd always wonder in the back of your head if you were acting a little too distant and if she was about to dump you all over again because of that. Every time you came home tired from work you'd worry you weren't giving her enough attention or meeting her needs. That would be a special kind of hell, I think. That doesn't mean Aghavni was wrong to dump him. I'm sure he really was emotionally unavailable and disconnected much of the time they were together. She wasn't wrong to feel like she was the only person in the relationship and that she loved him much more than he loved her. The thing is that I think it's fairly easy to understand why he is the way he is given his difficult childhood. He probably didn't have anyone to model a healthy relationship for him, and it makes total sense he would deal with the instability and trauma of his childhood by retreating into himself. Aghavni's point of view is totally understandable, but I don't think she's understanding or self-sacrificing enough to be in a relationship with someone as damaged as Rockford. To be perfectly honest, I think that actually might be a good thing for her.

Jamie:

Jamie is a character who is very easy to adore. She's part big time, Harvard educated lawyer and part blushing teenage girl stuck in a time warp. When she's not dazzling us with her intelligence and legal acumen, she's catching us off-guard with her unexpected innocence and impulsiveness. There's something very likable about a character who is brilliant intellectually but wears her heart on her sleeve. She has an obviously huge crush on Rockford whom she has known most of her life. She apparently first told him she loved him at age 10, and I'm not sure her feelings have changed all that much since then.

Most MCs in most AVNs would think, "Well, she's grown now. She's hot and into me so let's go for it!" But Rockford isn't your typical AVN MC. As jufot said, his reasons for not immediately jumping into Jamie's waiting arms make a lot of sense. When he first met Jamie, she was just a kid and he was a teenager and good friends with her brother. If your memories of someone begin with her being 8 and you 16, I can totally see why it would be difficult to ever begin thinking of them in romantic and sexual terms. Also, I feel like Rockford truly does think of her as being like a little sister to him and that that means a lot to him. We're talking about a guy whose mother died when he was a kid and who never knew his father. He was raised for a few years by his grandfather who also then promptly dropped dead. He has no siblings, no cousins, no close or distant relatives whatsoever....he's a guy who is in love with the idea of family but who never really experienced what being part of a family is really like. I feel like he probably needs a sister more than a lover at this point, but the tragedy is that that may not be enough for Jamie.

In a relationship, Jamie would probably be more understanding than Aghavni or at least try to be, but I wonder if she'd really be able to handle Rockford's emotional distance much better than his ex did. While Jamie is older than she seems to be a lot of the time (I would assume she's at least 27 if she's 3 years out of law school), I wonder if she's experienced enough darkness in her life to really understand Rockford. Her love for him at times can seem like puppy love, a young girl's crush that strangely never faded though the years marched on. I feel like the reality of being in a relationship with Rockford would probably crush a lot of her youthful dreams. For Rockford, I wonder if deciding the closest person he has to family is fair game might have a kind of corrupting influence on him, making him feel unmoored in his life and causing him to question his basic values and sense of morality.

 

[jufot]

Thanks for your thoughts EndlessNights. Insightful as always!

In my experience, it's quite possible to forge a good friendship with an ex

Seconded. It's not something you see often in AVNs, and I think it was done well here.

[Aghavni] ... You'd always wonder in the back of your head if you were acting a little too distant and if she was about to dump you all over again because of that.

I disagree, kinda. If Rockford were to deliberately act open and vulnerable, but remain closed internally, then yes, he would constantly worry about maintaining appearances. But if he were to get help and learn to be vulnerable, then he wouldn't have to wonder.

[Jamie] ... I feel like he probably needs a sister more than a lover at this point, but the tragedy is that that may not be enough for Jamie.

There is some truth to that. Adult Jamie has been in his life for more than a year at this point, and she has clearly been a positive influence. He's more open with her than he's with anyone else, even without a romantic context.

That said, I can see a path where his feelings for her evolve after Donna Lee's intervention. It's not easy, but it wouldn't be the first time two people went from "she's like a sister to me" to being a couple I think the biggest obstacle is his inferiority complex. He doesn't think the sad little orphan who could is good enough for the rich and powerful heiress. I hope he opens up about that to Jamie who'd obviously set him straight.

[Jamie] ... For Rockford, I wonder if deciding the closest person he has to family is fair game might have a kind of corrupting influence on him, making him feel unmoored in his life and causing him to question his basic values and sense of morality.

That would be a very interesting story, but it wouldn't be a good direction for this one. It's too dark and depressing

 

[EndlessNights]

I disagree, kinda. If Rockford were to deliberately act open and vulnerable, but remain closed internally, then yes, he would constantly worry about maintaining appearances. But if he were to get help and learn to be vulnerable, then he wouldn't have to wonder.

I do expect there'll be a lot of therapy in Rockford's hopefully near future. He seems to be somewhat in denial about having a problem at the moment, but he respects Aghavni and Jamie's opinions so I think he'll come around eventually. He's understandably defensive with Aghavni during their breakup conversation: "But I do love you!" I think most people in his position would have acted similarly. With Jamie he deflects. I hope he doesn't truly think she's just busting his balls over his alleged emotional unavailability. Even a little sister wouldn't do that.

That would be a very interesting story, but it wouldn't be a good direction for this one. It's too dark and depressing

I don't know...I think this VN is going to be on the heavy side and will definitely be dark and depressing at points. I'm personally dreading the future rape/child abuse storyline even though I'm quite sure Rockford will be in the position of supporting the victim and perhaps helping her heal. I'm sure it's going to be a rough journey even if it is emotionally rewarding in the end.

 

[jufot]

I hope he doesn't truly think she's just busting his balls over his alleged emotional unavailability.

He might have thought that at one point, especially during Aghavni's break-up, but I think he's slowly realizing that people who are urging him to be more vulnerable are coming from a place of love, not ball busting.

I don't know... I think this VN is going to be on the heavy side and will definitely be dark and depressing at points.

Fair. I think I just don't want to see a storyline where Rockford goes down a dark, corrupting path just because he's dating Jamie.

 

[camube]

Projekt Passion just released 0.4 update 2 days ago (i didn't know it either until now).

This game is memorable to me for being really funny and also does not employ "excessive" porn logic. I found that the more games I played, the less tolerance I have to games that just throw adult scenes in your face without a semblance of reason.

I don't even remember Projekt Passion adult scenes other than the very first one but I still do remember some of the hilarious game over scenes if you pick the wrong options, and one or two comical word plays.

The game so far is pretty short so give it a try.

If One Night Stand fulfill the requirement of being a story-first game despite the story being barely started, I think at the very least Projekt Passion deserves a check out too.

Oh actually, I just realized (though this one is popular enough), Pale Carnations is not listed as story-first game.

Despite Pale Carnations story revolves heavily around sex activities, I would say that game characters feels like real people with their own motivations. The writing is pretty good. As heavy as the sec contents are in Pale Carnations, the people in it feels like they have their own drive to the point that I'm looking forward to read more about what happens next to them.

"Looking forward to what happens next" i guess is my personal criteria of story-first games. Because if I'm checked out and not care what happens next, that means, the story is not "that interesting" to me.

And both Projekt Passion and Pale Carnations are two games where I actually look forward to what happens next. Mad World too. That one is good

 

[EndlessNights]

I plan to cover two characters who are actual love interests today and two characters I wish were love interests tomorrow or later in the week.

I don't know that anyone was actually waiting with bated breath for an update, but the time has come for me to discuss the other two Leaving DNA characters I mentioned previously. As a preface, I'd just like to say that just because there are characters I wish were love interests definitely doesn't mean Impious Monk should actually change anything (though I would certainly be both deeply flattered and extremely concerned for his mental health if he did happen to do that just because I happened to pen a long paragraph or three here on the Zone). If you read the game thread, it's very clear that our cloistered dev has a very detailed and definite plan for his VN, and it'll probably be best if he more or less sticks with it going forward no matter what the commentary from the peanut gallery. In general, I think it's actually a really good thing when there are great and memorable characters in an AVN who aren't love interests. I just love pondering the what-ifs and treating non-main characters like what they often are: vitally important to the story.

And now, without further ado....

Sylvia:

I absolutely loved Rockford's flirty conversation with Sylvia the bartender, and Sylvia herself is my favorite character in the game so far. She's exactly the sort of person I'd like to see our MC end up with because she complements him well. It's quite apparent why she became a bartender because she's so easy to talk to, and that's a quality I think Rockford really needs his partner to have because of the difficulty he has expressing his emotions. He does also have good conversations with Aghavni and Jamie at times, but I feel like Aghavni's high expectations and Jamie's adulation make it difficult for Rockford to just be himself around them. He desperately wants to be a man worthy of Aghavni and the hero Jamie sees him as, but to try to fill those roles he feels he has to hide his vulnerabilities. Sylvia by contrast is laid-back, accepting, and open. You can come as you are to her bar, get a drink, share a moment, and leave without feeling judged. I'm not sure there's anyone else in the world who'd have been able to get Rockford to admit his shocking criminal past as quickly as Sylvia did.

I also really liked that Sylvia has experienced some darkness and disappointment in her life. If vandalism, criminal threats, and street fighting were all a notable part of your growing up, your youth probably wasn't some sort of magical, joyful time of thoughtless innocence and irresponsibility. If you have a dream job you've longed and striven hard for but been forced to accept other work, your feet are firmly planted in reality and you know just how much it sucks. I feel like Sylvia has seen more of life than Jamie in particular has, and that experience could help her understand where Rockford is coming from given his rather hellish childhood. I think she might be able to understand why he hides within himself when things get hard. Maybe she even does that herself sometimes. Sylvia seems like the kind of person who could simultaneously understand Rockford's pain, give him the safe and loving space he needs to finally open up, and still find a way to have a lot of fun with her man.

Sara:

Many AVN characters seem physically designed to fulfill and personify a fantasy. I really like when when there are characters in VNs that buck this trend by actually looking like someone you could encounter in real life...someone who doesn't have impossible proportions and that strange Ren'Py disease that seems to exclusively afflict women by giving them willow waists and tiny tummies yet somehow also huge tits and asses. Sara seems refreshingly real and alive, like someone you could run into at the grocery store.

Rockford's response to Sara's realness is, "Well, she's not my type." I think that's a shame because to me she's actually pretty cute and I like her personality and backstory. For our MC, though, I have a feeling a few extra pounds not safely contained in the boobs and buttocks are an absolute dealbreaker. The aspect of Rockford's personality I like the least is his judgementalness when it comes to women's physical appearances. There's nothing wrong with having a type or preferences, but you don't have to be an asshole about it like he is when he's attacking actresses for being unattractive or dismissing Jamie's friend as heavyset as if that was the only quality she had worth speaking of. That said, this at least makes it very easy for me to ruin Rockford's chances with all the ladies without feeling the slightest shred of guilt.

If Rockford did give Sara an honest chance, I think he might find that he actually likes her. Some people might deem her a little too pushy and aggressive, but I thought she was openly flirty in a fun and amusing way. She doesn't zero in on Rockford like a shark in search of a meal, but she does gently push the conversation back towards him at times to show her interest. Nothing wrong with that at all. I especially like the way she pays close attention to what he says and asks him interesting questions. She doesn't just think Rockford's hot...she's genuinely interested in him as a person. She doesn't just want him -- she truly wants to get to know him. That's more flattering than the deepest and most sincere compliment in my view.

 

[moskyx]

Leaving DNA bored me. And the massive rack of the two main LIs didn't help it either (nor did the text input for hints, to be honest, but maybe that was the translator inside me). The streetfighting scene, the former #1 basketball prospect backstory... please. It's a no from me.

 

[jufot]

If One Night Stand fulfill the requirement of being a story-first game despite the story being barely started, I think at the very least Projekt Passion deserves a check out too.

I like Projekt Passion, but so far it's just MC collecting potential harem members. He hasn't exchanged more than a few words with most characters. I'd like to wait for at least a few more updates.

I don't know that anyone was actually waiting with bated breath for an update

I was!

I feel like Sylvia has seen more of life than Jamie in particular has, and that experience could help her understand where Rockford is coming from given his rather hellish childhood. I think she might be able to understand why he hides within himself when things get hard. Maybe she even does that herself sometimes. Sylvia seems like the kind of person who could simultaneously understand Rockford's pain, give him the safe and loving space he needs to finally open up, and still find a way to have a lot of fun with her man.

Those are all good points. I think Sylvia would work great as a friends-with-benefits (with emphasis on friends) to Rockford, for all the reasons you mentioned. I don't think it's viable for anything long term, though. A prosecutor and a bartender don't seem like great "happily ever after" matches to me, though that might just be my biases speaking.

Also, I missed out on some of that interaction precisely because I didn't want Rockford flirting with someone while in Jamie's line of sight

Rockford's response to Sara's realness is, "Well, she's not my type." I think that's a shame because to me she's actually pretty cute and I like her personality and backstory. For our MC, though, I have a feeling a few extra pounds not safely contained in the boobs and buttocks are an absolute dealbreaker. The aspect of Rockford's personality I like the least is his judgementalness when it comes to women's physical appearances.

Agreed, I really liked Sara as well. She is less conventionally attractive than the official LIs, but she is a sweet, confident woman who is genuinely interested in Rockford beyond mere swooning. I can't fault Rockford too much, though. Many people write off potential matches at first sight for lacking immediate sparks. That's just life.

And the massive rack of the two main LIs didn't help it either (nor did the text input for hints

I've complained about the racks as well. Both Aghavni and Jamie could stand to have theirs scaled down a few notches.

As for the text inputs, he's

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right now and most people seem to agree that it was too hard.

 

[moskyx]

I've complained about the racks as well. Both Aghavni and Jamie could stand to have theirs scaled down a few notches.

As for the text inputs, he's

You must be registered to see the links

right now and most people seem to agree that it was too hard.

First renders of Jamie are obviously designed to showcase her adult assets, then she meets Aghavni and her first thought is about those bazoongas and I was just 'have you looked yourself in the mirror, girl?' (even though it's true that Aghavni is in another league).

I see people are complaining about one of the questions being too hard (it's true that the second one was less intuitive than the first one) and there's also someone who just couldn't solve it because he's not a native speaker, but I was merely talking from a translating point of view. If I were to translate that game, I'd be forced to take some time to effectively adjust that piece of code so that it works in Spanish too, and I'm almost certain no other hobbyist translator would do that and the players would be basically stripped of the chance to get those extra points or whatever. Most of them wouldn't care anyway if this was just a fuck-fest game, but when you are trying to develop a story-based game is essential to make your players feel invested in it, and a puzzle in which they are reminded of them not being the target audience doesn't seem like a good idea in that regard. I know most English-speaking devs don't have us in mind at all in their development process (funny how Pixieblink and Bedtimetales are mentioned in this game as testers, though, considering they actually approached me to translate their games) but this kind of word puzzles are a very effective way to lose potential followers all around the world.

 

[jufot]

but this kind of word puzzles are a very effective way to lose potential followers all around the world

I haven't really considered that, but it's a good point. I'm used to consuming media in English even when it's available in my own language, I tend to not realize how important translations are for millions (billions?) of people.

 

[noping123]

I haven't really considered that, but it's a good point. I'm used to consuming media in English even when it's available in my own language, I tend to not realize how important translations are for millions (billions?) of people.

Generally speaking, they're not. It's been a big discussion amongst devs more than a couple times, and the data-driven consensus from those who have put in the time/effort to accommodate, is that it's not worth the time/effort/money because the returns are so small.

It's the sort of thing where, if a dev does provide something like this, (translations or other accommodations for other languages), it's usually because they specifically want to, but it's definitely not something actually worth doing from a time/efficiency/financial standpoint.

Then there's the other side of the coin - sometimes things don't translate very well. I only speak spanish with any competency and definitely not fluently - I know very little about any other language, but I know some of the stuff I've written would not translate well into spanish - which means if someone did translate it, they'd have to be fluent in both languages, in order to be able to not just translate it, but change it so that it works in the new language without losing the impact it had in the original. That's a big part of the reason I *wouldn't* want to provide translations of my game. Spanish is the only language I know enough to personally check the translation and be able to say "Yea, I'm happy with that" but it's very possible stuff gets lost in translation (quite literally), and to me, I feel like that's worse than not providing it at all.

 

[schinoize]

I don't know the puzzle of Leaving DNA, but yeah, as a dev I'd be hesitant to add puzzles that, for example, let you build a larger number of words out of a pool of letters (*cough* BaDIK's english tests *cough*). I can follow most AVN stories without having to look up more than a few words (I could still guess the meaning from context, but want to know the exact meaning), but puzzles can be a whole different story as they require a vast knowledge of vocabulary.

 

[moskyx]

Generally speaking, they're not. It's been a big discussion amongst devs more than a couple times, and the data-driven consensus from those who have put in the time/effort to accommodate, is that it's not worth the time/effort/money because the returns are so small.

It's the sort of thing where, if a dev does provide something like this, (translations or other accommodations for other languages), it's usually because they specifically want to, but it's definitely not something actually worth doing from a time/efficiency/financial standpoint.

Then there's the other side of the coin - sometimes things don't translate very well. I only speak spanish with any competency and definitely not fluently - I know very little about any other language, but I know some of the stuff I've written would not translate well into spanish - which means if someone did translate it, they'd have to be fluent in both languages, in order to be able to not just translate it, but change it so that it works in the new language without losing the impact it had in the original. That's a big part of the reason I *wouldn't* want to provide translations of my game. Spanish is the only language I know enough to personally check the translation and be able to say "Yea, I'm happy with that" but it's very possible stuff gets lost in translation (quite literally), and to me, I feel like that's worse than not providing it at all.

Yeah, that's true. I don't have any numbers myself but I do believe there's no market for devs to provide translations, although there is a huge demand for translated games, especially android ones. There are several sites that provide machine translations, and they earn at least enough to keep the sites running - thanks to invasive ads, url shorteners, and the like. But not because people are willing to pay for their translations (even though there's always someone willing to offer you a tip). I include a readme file in my patches encouraging people to support devs if they liked the game, but I'm almost certain no one ever did that after playing my translation. And I swear mine is quality work, it's just that people around here are not used to paying for this content. Now, if we were talking about a game launched on Steam, that would be a totally different thing - I think a game can get way more exposure and buyers if it's available in several languages. But again, no numbers to show.

About devs just not wanting to get their games translated because they don't trust the quality and fear that some bits will be lost in translation... well, it's a stupid stance in my opinion (how 'hundreds of people just missed a pun' can be worse than 'hundreds of people just missed the whole game'?) but I guess I'm not objective. I believe people are intelligent enough to tell apart a translation's issue from a game's writing issue, and even if the translation is 'not exactly good' they still appreciate the dev's willingness to include it and take those players into account (unless it's plainly terrible, but then the dev would have an easy way out: just remove that shitty translation people are complaining about). But, in the end, it doesn't really matter: games are going to be translated anyway because there are people who have the tools, the time, and the will to do it, and there's also a demand for it. If you don't want to provide them for whatever reason, it's fine. The end result is basically the same for everybody: you won't get any richer, and non-English speakers will be able to play some crappy machine-translated version of your game that won't incentive them to even think about ever buying your game but that it's good enough for them to get off, which is the only thing that matters to most of them.

 

[noping123]

(unless it's plainly terrible, but then the dev would have an easy way out: just remove that shitty translation people are complaining about)

I think this is part of it right here - paying for translations (to specify, paying top dollar for a QUALITY translation) isn't worth it, according to the numbers. (and this includes steam btw. For higher budget, AAA or even AA style games, yea it's worth it, but for the types of games you see here, the numbers traditionally are not there to justify it. I could dig through old threads and find the source but honestly I'm too lazy for that so you'll have to take my word for it).

So you're left either with free translations, or low cost ones - and these very often, tend to be poor quality. Sometimes you get lucky and get good quality translations, but often times you'll get pretty mediocre ones that just don't do very well. If I knew I had a solid, well done translation I'd absolutely add it, but since I can only personally verify spanish and every other language I'd have to take the translator's word for it, I don't think it's worth putting in even if I got it for free, since putting in a low quality one would be worse IMO than none at all. Because yea you're right, maybe they could find a translated version anyway, but if they're going to play a low quality translation, I'd prefer it not be an official one.

And in regards to "missing a pun" that's not really what I was talking about. You can get away with not having all of that (Obviously it's preferable, but fine if it can't be done) but often times the entire context of a scene a mood can be lost in low quality translations - and like I said, I'd prefer to not have anything at all than provide that on an official basis.

 

[moskyx]

I think this is part of it right here - paying for translations (to specify, paying top dollar for a QUALITY translation) isn't worth it, according to the numbers. (and this includes steam btw. For higher budget, AAA or even AA style games, yea it's worth it, but for the types of games you see here, the numbers traditionally are not there to justify it. I could dig through old threads and find the source but honestly I'm too lazy for that so you'll have to take my word for it).

So you're left either with free translations, or low cost ones - and these very often, tend to be poor quality. Sometimes you get lucky and get good quality translations, but often times you'll get pretty mediocre ones that just don't do very well. If I knew I had a solid, well done translation I'd absolutely add it, but since I can only personally verify spanish and every other language I'd have to take the translator's word for it, I don't think it's worth putting in even if I got it for free, since putting in a low quality one would be worse IMO than none at all. Because yea you're right, maybe they could find a translated version anyway, but if they're going to play a low quality translation, I'd prefer it not be an official one.

And in regards to "missing a pun" that's not really what I was talking about. You can get away with not having all of that (Obviously it's preferable, but fine if it can't be done) but often times the entire context of a scene a mood can be lost in low quality translations - and like I said, I'd prefer to not have anything at all than provide that on an official basis.

That's totally reasonable. I mentioned Steam because my only experience on that platform was with Tlaero's 'Life Changes for Keeley' and, during the few weeks it stayed online, it was indexed by a Spanish ero-games curator with +3k followers and it got some positive reviews from Spanish-speaking players, so I think having the translation had an impact in overall sales. I can't quantify that impact, though. Of course, a pro translation is out of reach for most of devs in this forum

 

[camube]

I like Projekt Passion, but so far it's just MC collecting potential harem members. He hasn't exchanged more than a few words with most characters. I'd like to wait for at least a few more updates.

That's fair that's fair. There's already a clear goal (though I don't remember what it is, I played it in one go). I think the MC for Passion was pissed or something like that because he got hunted so he's hunting the organizations back, or something like that. And they're going to go to space now or something.

Anyway, there's a "chase for mcguffin" already.

Speaking of Clear Goals, there's this one game that is in the genre i'm not really into but the game do have a clear cut goal, uncovering the reason behind what happened with Female Lead's dad. And the Female Lead is being hunted too. The game only has abysmally low 50 patrons despite being one of the more (if not most) coherent story among ren'py games.

It's called the Arson Betrayal.

https://f95zone.to/threads/the-arson-betrayal-v0-5-3-crispy-chicken-productions.101491/

The game definitely put plot far above story even if adult scenes do happens regularly enough. 3 of the female leads have good reasons for why they're doing it with the MC, and even if that's not every female leads, that's better than the average games.

I really do hope this game gets more patrons and gets more popular because i really don't want the devs to stop developing. Mad World being abandoned kinda suck. That story is good too.

I do find it hard to find games that satisfy this requirement tbh:

> Characters that are actual human beings, with lives, personalities and interests outside the MC

This is a high bar of requirement for me personally. Most games doesn't pass this requirement.

Off the top of my head probably only Pale Carnations where the characters do feels like real people.

If I go down the list of the games I've played one by one by one and discern it properly, I probably could find several games that feels like that but it's a stretch. Only Pale Carnations and DeLuca Family is memorable enough off the top of my head to satisfy the above requirement,

Most games doesn't feel like that to me tbh. Most games that I've played, even the ones in the front page, even the ones I look forward to playing it's next update (like Nothing is Forever) doesn't actually satisfy that requirement. What I meant to say is that neither does Arson Betrayal. It doesn't fulfill the requirement of "actual human beings".

Neither Nothing is Forever, The Entrepreneur, or Arson Betrayal feels like "actual human beings" to me. Just because that chess prodigy on Nothing is Forever have a life that's not about MC and just because that older entrepreneur in The Entrepreneur had a past tragedy before MC, doesn't mean they feel like "humans".

But Arson Betrayal is still a story-first game though. And unlike Projekt Passion where it just got started, Arson Betrayal have completed Act I. The story is already rolling by now.

I don't get why the number of their patrons is abysmally low. Maybe Honey Select do filter players.

 

[jufot]

> Characters that are actual human beings, with lives, personalities and interests outside the MC

This is a high bar of requirement for me personally. Most games doesn't pass this requirement.

[...]

Neither Nothing is Forever, The Entrepreneur, or Arson Betrayal feels like "actual human beings" to me. Just because that chess prodigy on Nothing is Forever have a life that's not about MC and just because that older entrepreneur in The Entrepreneur had a past tragedy before MC, doesn't mean they feel like "humans".

Yeah, the line is definitely subjective. I haven't played The Arson Betrayal, but the other two do satisfy the criteria for me.

Keep in mind that, while the list in the OP reflects my tastes, the thread doesn't, which is where the real value is