Recommending Story-first games

[Grimnir098]

There's a lot of selfish amoral political manipulation in both where it doesn't make sense for a vassalage-based setting (where power is very distributed so where there are a lot of peers and near peers to worry about).

Could you expand more on what would make sense in a vassalage-based setting? Maybe in a PM to avoid going off-topic.
Or send me some links I can look at?

 

[Jaike]

Could you expand more on what would make sense in a vassalage-based setting? Maybe in a PM to avoid going off-topic.
Or send me some links I can look at?

You must be registered to see the links

, especially the parts "vassals and bannermen" and "honor, homage and fealty".

Note it's the end of a 3-part series and that the series' aim is a little different. I'm only indirectly interested in how "historical" GoT/ASoIaF is (really fan perception of the past) and more about how consistent the worldbuilding is.

 

[UnkownRoboCommie]

I suppose I've always considered grimdark as "things are real bad" (dark) and "nothing can get better, things can only get worse" (grim). The poster child is of course 40k, which I hate (Though I'm a big fan of Age of Sigmar)

On the fuedal stuff, I think the kingdom acts about standard "fantasy fuedal", and Bloodmean of course is specifically shown in opposition to fuedalism, with a might makes right system. A fair portion of the game is about that actually, with Rowan hating the fuedal structure but also opposing the twins system.

What are some games people recommend? I'm a crazy person who plays smut games (and the same is true when I read smut) for the writing and story (aro/ace so tat probably effects it), so it's quite difficult for me to find things I don't hate for reasons that probably helped inspire this very thread :v

Out of Touch is pretty good I recall, some competent writing and actually good characters that feel like people, and the relationships are sweet, though one does first have to get past a really bad (not in a worrysome way, just not funny) joke they put in first, that sadly has later story relevence, but aside from that it's quite good. It has the nice but shockingly rare thing where the polycule is an actual polycule, not just some person's sex harem (not to be confused with irl harems, which were mostly administrative bodies)

 

[jufot]

Corporate Culture's latest chapter is out I've shared my thoughts here and would love to know what you folks think of it.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Corporate Culture's latest chapter is out I've shared my thoughts here and would love to know what you folks think of it.

Just finished playing it.

Personally, I found it to be the best update of the game so far.

Spoiler: Warning! Long Read Ahead

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[Birdnman993]

Corporate Culture's latest chapter is out I've shared my thoughts here and would love to know what you folks think of it.

And how long is this update? Because I like the story a lot, but not so much to wait another year for more content to come out.

 

[kotte]

Yay! Episode 3 of Dancing Colors has hit this site. Haven't tried it yet, but I enjoyed the first two installments a lot.

 

[camube]

noping's No Such Luck new chapter is out on Patreon

 

[kotte]

Since the thread is a bit quiet this week, I'll post this, even though it doesn't bring anything new here:

I have read many times in this thread about Corporate Culture. The other day I decided to try it, and today I finished the latest episode and added one more Patreon to my list of patronages.

At first, I was quite put off. The MC is a moron, but I also made the mistake of finding the AVN moronic. It had the typical "alpha vs. loser" choices, it felt naïve, almost pubescent. But then I came to one of the brilliant games of word-tennis between the MC and Elsa and it made me want to stay.

After that, I started to find more and more signs of excellence. Like the neighbour, Lucy, that I first guessed was put there to be an easy shag early in the game, so as to not lose players if the main LI's were progressing too slowly. Until I read how much of a real person she is, how even the the worst interactions (actually, especially those) are full of life and purposeful.

Then we had the bar scene with the fight, and there the dev switched from words to a scene solely driven by still images that precisely and rythmically carried the story and the ambience at the same time.

And last but definitely not least, some of the interactions with Elsa are just plain brilliant. I am extremely torn, if she would become an LI, would I like it or hate it, but no matter which she is the epicenter of the story. Every little bit of information we get about her, every time she shows us a sliver of humanity, I just go for it like a starving man for a strawberry cake.

Thanks for recommending it!

 

[jufot]

some of the interactions with Elsa are just plain brilliant. I am extremely torn, if she would become an LI, would I like it or hate it, but no matter which she is the epicenter of the story. Every little bit of information we get about her, every time she shows us a sliver of humanity, I just go for it like a starving man for a strawberry cake.

Based on their current relationship, I don't want her to be an LI. Nothing about him seems desirable to someone like her. So I'm infinitely curious how sqwl will manage to make her one, without resorting to nonsense. I have faith in him, though, so it's just a waiting game

 

[kotte]

Based on their current relationship, I don't want her to be an LI. Nothing about him seems desirable to someone like her. So I'm infinitely curious how sqwl will manage to make her one, without resorting to nonsense. I have faith in him, though, so it's just a waiting game

To me, it is a Pygmalion story where Elsa is driven by a desire to transform Edward, but if she would succeed, she would lose interest in him. Just like Higgins with Eliza.

However, there are a lot of hints, where Elsa might seem a little bit jealous when Edward is going on about how fantastic Alice is. But it could just as well be that she simply finds it tiring to listen to...

 

[jufot]

To me, it is a Pygmalion story where Elsa is driven by a desire to transform Edward, but if she would succeed, she would lose interest in him. Just like Higgins with Eliza.

I spent a good minute thinking how Higgins didn't lose interest in Eliza and so the comment didn't make sense, but then it clicked that you meant the other way around as the analogy is gender swapped

However, there are a lot of hints, where Elsa might seem a little bit jealous when Edward is going on about how fantastic Alice is. But it could just as well be that she simply finds it tiring to listen to...

Interesting. I've never read that as jealousy. Just... drudgery. I think Elsa quickly gets bored with his nonsense, which is why she tries to keep the conversation short and to the point.

 

[camube]

Lately I realized that most AVNs are probably not made for me. I'm not the target audience because in order to earn support, most devs has to sacrifice the "Novel" part of AVNs.

I'm aware that the way people consume stories, some people put themselves on first person perspective, another portion of people put ourselves on third person perspective, an observer.

I recently realized AVN target audience goes beyond wanting to see things from first-person or third person POV though.
That it goes beyond a mere 'relating' to the Main Character. That there is this need to pretend that they are the Main Character themselves. It seems as if it goes beyond want, and crossing to need.

I recently realized that that need means developers are being criticized for having story elements that is disagreeable to AVN target audience.
It's a really disappointing realization that the story part might be sacrificed to appeal to target audiences of AVNs.

There is a game I support on Patreon where the dev is currently questioning how to re-do their Novel early part because it has "forced girlfriend" setting.
A part of that game's story hook is his present dilemma between committing to his current girlfriend or changing his mind based on what happened in his past. So the setting is a part of the story. Revising the story to "optional girlfriend" would change the basic of the story.

This leads me to example 2. There is a game out there that barely just began but I think has a sharp writing, and has a plot that makes sense that, even a year after I played that game, I still remember some character and part of it's story. I just learned that the game is speculated to be abandoned because the latest update from a year ago received heavy criticism.

At first I did not understand what the criticism was about until I was reminded that one of the character in that game blackmailed the Main Character. And that part of the story is so very disagreeable that the criticism speculated to have made the dev abandoned the game).

That leads to example 3. I just started a game where the game has a warning that says something to the effect of "it's characters may have sexual histories and not necessarily with the main character. It will also contain seldom and sporadic scenes where these characters maybe sexual with others for whatever reason that may be. None of these scenes exist with the intention of cucking the MC"

To summarize the three examples. Example 1 affects the initial hook of the story. Example 2 affects the story element. Example 3 affects the world of the story. As in how alive the world of the story is.

Example 1 shows the dev having to change to cater to the target audience. Example 2 shows the dev also having to cater, but this time by stopping the development. Example 3 is catering by trying to do a middleground by building a world but making it "seldom and sporadic"

I like Choose Your Own Adventure and I like Story, so visual novel, west or east, fits me because it satisfies both of that. West VN in general is far shorter than East VN, so for me that's a major plus.

The fact that an AVN developer has to cater to readers that does not want to see this or that story element to be able to earn a living is a major disappointment to me because it affects the story themselves

I really don't put much stock what story element is in an AVN. I just want to read good stories.
To me,
Deviancy and Little Regina has similarities
House of the Dragon and New Antioch has similarities
Firefly and Projekt Passion has similarities
One Tree Hill and Our Red String has similarities

Everyone is entitled to their opinion in their dislikes and likes. What matters to me is how it's delivered and what is the dev trying to convey with the story.

What I did not realized until recently is how the dislikes of AVN target audience might heavily affect AVN story because what is in the game will affect AVN devs bottom line.
It's a major disappointment and a sad realization to me that AVN also might have to self-censored on the Novel part so that the devs can earn supports.
Heavy on the Adult and light on the Novel is one thing but having to excise or not include things that could have made a better story is unfortunate.

 

[jamdan]

^ This is a core reason that many people are militantly against NTR games, they themselves feel cucked.

However, I think AVN devs should... well, just ignore them. The vast majority of people on this website do not ever pay for the games they play. If devs want to make a living, complete their game and put it on Steam; a place where people will actually buy it.

Letting a piracy website be, more or less, the regulator of AVN games isn't a good idea.

 

[Tlaero]

Lately I realized that most AVNs are probably not made for me. I'm not the target audience because in order to earn support, most devs has to sacrifice the "Novel" part of AVNs.

While I agree with your sentiment, I think you're conflating "F95" and "The target audience for AVNs." While F95 is a large audience, they're not the only one. And, though people on F95 seem to think that they are the only people who matter, that's clearly not the case. For example, ArianeB has zero presence here, and is making a living writing her AVNs.

Also, it's not just AVN developers who have to contend with a toxic environment for making their product. You've got people review-bombing TV shows that have a female superhero. You've got people writing bad reviews about movies they didn't see because they were made by a company they feel is too supportive of people they don't like. Etc.

As bad as things are, now, it used to be much worse. 35 years ago, the only way for a writer to sell a book was to get it published by one of a small number of publishers. And even if the writer managed to get noticed by one of those publishers, the bookstores would only stock their book for a short time before tearing off the cover and sending it back. 30 years ago, Amazon started selling book from anyone. But you still had to pay a ton of money to get your books printed. 25ish years ago, you started seeing digital books that allowed everyday people to write stories for very little cost to them and sell them online. Now you don't even have to sell them. You have places like Patreon to support you.

It's definitely a shame when a promising developer fails. But failure in any endeavor is common. Something like 80% of all restaurants fail in the first year.

What you can do is support the people who are trying to make the things you like. It doesn't have to be money/patronage. Just getting positive feedback in the sea of negativity can convince a writer to keep going. Don't take for granted what encouragement will do for people who are struggling. And, if you can afford to toss some money their way, all the better.

Tlaero

 

[Dessolos]

Probably too early to recommend for this thread. I just played the Prologue of The missing Part. I thought it was just as good on an emotional level as Leap of Faith just from a prologue. I think it's one worth keeping an eye out on.

 

[Yokanzo]

The hardest thing about following multiple Renpy DAZ3D type VNs that have popped up since I first got into them with "acting lessons" and BADIK is how there are now an impossible amount of Patreons or other subscription based accounts to financially support the devs but the updates come in at an extremely slow pace so you're often waiting and anticipating content that gives you at best, maybe 1 hour of gameplay or less per 2-3 month dev cycle. So you're simultaneously following like 10 unfinished games and it becomes a pain to keep track of all of them.

 

[Tlaero]

So you're simultaneously following like 10 unfinished games and it becomes a pain to keep track of all of them.

This is one of the reasons I tend to release finished games, not "episodes."

Tlaero

 

[Pgsurprise]

I'm interested in games where the story takes precedence over everything else. My personal criteria are:

This is a great thread. Thank you.

Something I wonder, though, is whether men who are willing to play a female MC are more comfortable playing a lesbian than a heterosexual woman. In lesbian games, they're still working to build a relationship with a woman. I wonder if that is easier to take than to be trying to pick up men.

Playing straight or lesbian FMC is fine for me. I tend to put myself in the place of the male LI and make the choices for the MC I'd want her to make.

 

[camube]

While I agree with your sentiment, I think you're conflating "F95" and "The target audience for AVNs." While F95 is a large audience, they're not the only one. And, though people on F95 seem to think that they are the only people who matter, that's clearly not the case. For example, ArianeB has zero presence here, and is making a living writing her AVNs.

Also, it's not just AVN developers who have to contend with a toxic environment for making their product. You've got people review-bombing TV shows that have a female superhero. You've got people writing bad reviews about movies they didn't see because they were made by a company they feel is too supportive of people they don't like. Etc.

As bad as things are, now, it used to be much worse. 35 years ago, the only way for a writer to sell a book was to get it published by one of a small number of publishers. And even if the writer managed to get noticed by one of those publishers, the bookstores would only stock their book for a short time before tearing off the cover and sending it back. 30 years ago, Amazon started selling book from anyone. But you still had to pay a ton of money to get your books printed. 25ish years ago, you started seeing digital books that allowed everyday people to write stories for very little cost to them and sell them online. Now you don't even have to sell them. You have places like Patreon to support you.

It's definitely a shame when a promising developer fails. But failure in any endeavor is common. Something like 80% of all restaurants fail in the first year.

What you can do is support the people who are trying to make the things you like. It doesn't have to be money/patronage. Just getting positive feedback in the sea of negativity can convince a writer to keep going. Don't take for granted what encouragement will do for people who are struggling. And, if you can afford to toss some money their way, all the better.

Tlaero

I think some devs do put weight on the feedbacks they read on their game's discussion thread, whether it's here or elsewhere on the internet.

I'm always supportive of devs to just don't come and don't read their game's discussion thread after a certain point. Maybe after their update 3 or 4.
They may need to come to discussion forums to advertise at their start, but after a certain point, I see not reading their own discussion thread to be a positive thing.

While feedbacks in the sense of having another person or a couple people to bounce ideas of and also feedbacks in the sense of editor are needed, players of their own game are too partial. Patrons or pirates.

Not all ideas are good ideas but I view writing by committee as not a good idea.