Recommending Story-first games

[Raife]

I finally got a chance to play the last chapter. Like realjitter says, this is definitely the Cece story, and she has the best ending. She is worried that her oddities might eventually destroy her relationship, and instead of soothing her with platitudes, MC actually acknowledges the possibility. I really liked that! She also acknowledges that love doesn't fix any of her problems, and that she'll likely never be fully OK. It's a realistic depiction of mental illness mixed with suicidal ideation.

I didn't dislike the game -- but a couple of the dev's choices were irritating.

• The portrayal of Cece and her struggle was highly romantic (particularly the MC's intervention), very compelling and featured important elements of realism. But... I think her storyline wasn't done proper justice (and the game's other problems were exacerbated) by the introduction of too many other LIs. If the dev has just maintained a bit more focus on the primary LI, it could have been a classic. As it was...
• I was distracted by the MC, who I frequently found annoying for reasons it's hard to put a finger on: probably the combination of good fortune, carefree employment status and inexplicable charisma. I just could not get in to role-playing the guy.

So... I enjoyed the game, but it underachieved a bit.

Speaking of MCs, I went back and played through the latest episode of _Halfway House_ -- and realized that one of the reasons I like the game so much is its MC. He's very well written... so well written that I actually enjoyed playing a 19 year-old MC.

The MC is realistically portrayed: he has anger issues, does dumb/boorish things that I remember thinking were cool when I was 19 (like belching loudly after a satisfying meal or ogling women) and is not particularly bright or strong. But he has a good heart, and the sort of earnest lack of pretense and decent motives that mark him out as a good kid. This makes him understandably appealing: one of the LIs makes fun of him by saying that he's not particularly impressive in any way... except that he has a sort of "derpy gigolo" quality that inspires trust.

The writing makes me care both about how the MC turns out... and about his relationships with other LI and non-LI NPCs. And, as you know, the game has some _great_ non-LI NPCs... more than five typical games in this genre put together! Good stuff.

 

[camube]

Finished Projekt Passion and it's top 2 funniest game I've played so far (Above the clouds being no.1). I don't know about whether it's a story-first game because the story just started, but the ending of chapter 1 was great. I like it.

 

[Jaike]

So the route in LoF where the MC jumps into a lesbian relation like the Kool-Aid man is with Kira and Robin? I think it's for the best if I never read that one.

The MC is realistically portrayed: he has anger issues, does dumb/boorish things that I remember thinking were cool when I was 19 (like belching loudly after a satisfying meal or ogling women) and is not particularly bright or strong. But he has a good heart, and the sort of earnest lack of pretense and decent motives that mark him out as a good kid. This makes him understandably appealing: one of the LIs makes fun of him by saying that he's not particularly impressive in any way... except that he has a sort of "derpy gigolo" quality that inspires trust.

I agree that the MC is quite realistic. Ironic because "derpy gigolo" also describes many, many MCs from much worse games and the game's also literally porny on more than one level.

However I have ended up disliking the MC after all. First his stupidity grated me, but that is in character and the parole officer also says he's not bright so I'm "over" that. But then he started begging or pressing the landlady for sex so I think I'm soured on that MC and VN. I still agree he's not a bad kid and it's realistic but not the type of unavoidable realism I can care for.

But it's a good game for people who aren't nitpicky about that stuff.

I can't put my finger on exactly what, but there is something hilarious about the idea of a "friendship harem"

Maybe cause it implies the possibility of a "friendship eunuch"? Or because it makes a harem, something inherently sexualised, sound sexually innocent.

Hmm, now that I think about it, you might have a point. Their whole relationship is unrealistic. After all, how often does the sewage worker end up with the pop star?

Depends on how much their society degenerated into an open sewer or if their relationship heavily involves fetishes like scat and urination. Outside that, it's very unrealistic.

Not sure if some people remember, but I made a distinction between story driven and character driven narratives. Personally, I lean quite heavily to the story driven side if I am considering something as story-first. At minimum, if it's a character driven narrative, I believe the character interactions should be tied to some sort of overall narrative and goal (Corporate Culture, for example). Dreamers sort of fails at this imo. Many of the character interactions are kinda like compartmentalized dating sim situations within some "grand" plot requiring urgency.

I remember that. It's imo one of the better "essays" ever written on this site and worth reading for who hasn't yet.

Speaking of Acting Lessons and very off topic... in this sad porny game Lady in Blue, the "

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" of harem games, there's a mention of a guy who had to choose who out of two women close to him to save from a fire, couldn't live with his choice and killed himself. Wondered if that was a dark spoof of AL.

 

[Raife]

I agree that the MC is quite realistic. Ironic because "derpy gigolo" also describes many, many MCs from much worse games and the game's also literally porny on more than one level.

However I have ended up disliking the MC after all. First his stupidity grated me, but that is in character and the parole officer also says he's not bright so I'm "over" that. But then he started begging or pressing the landlady for sex so I think I'm soured on that MC and VN. I still agree he's not a bad kid and it's realistic but not the type of unavoidable realism I can care for.

But it's a good game for people who aren't nitpicky about that stuff.

Oh for sure... _Halfway House_ has flaws: the issues you highlight, plus the porny tropishness of the three primary LIs.

When I initially spotlighted this game, it was to point out that devs don't need to produce wholly original or entirely non-tropish characters to make a good story-first game (not everyone can be Tlaero). Just a bit of a twist, or a little sprinkle of originality, makes a big difference. HH is not one of my favourite games... but it is considerably better than it should be. If LoF underachieves its baseline potential, I think HH overachieves.

 

[jufot]

Depends on how much their society degenerated into an open sewer or if their relationship heavily involves fetishes like scat and urination.

Wow, you just reached me on a level that I never thought possible

(Anyone old and nerdy enough to get that reference?)

 

[Hildegardt]

Race of Life seems a good candidate do add to the list

+1 from me for this suggestion. Some parts are a little hamfisted, but the emphasis is still on the story and only one out of the three sex scenes feels out of place so far.
My biggest gripe with Race Of Life is that it's an on the nose redemption story, but the PC can still be played as a creepy asshole without the other characters acknowledging his assholish ways. So, the PC cheated on his ex-wife, basically also abandoning his daughter in the process. PC's inner monologue tells us that he can't change the past, but he wants to be a better person and father from now on. But he's still stringing along his new girlfriend, tells her he's too busy for something more serious, but can actively pursue other women. He can also get a BJ from a stranger in a public toilet just a day after his daughter had an accident and fell into a coma, which is the sex scene that felt out of place as I mentioned above.
So far sex scenes are used pretty sparingly (the animations are pretty good btw), which is why I'm still hopeful that there won't be too many unimmersive excuses for the PC to fuck around. On the other hand it's dependent on player's choices, if the PC is an asshole or not and maybe it's just too early to tell, after only one episode, if this will have an impact or not.

 

[Hildegardt]

Every time "To Be a King" makes it to the latest updates tab, I shed a tear for "Last Call". So I wanted to take this opportunity to strongly recommend playing Last Call. Just be aware that it's all but abandoned and the last update ended on a massive cliffhanger.

 

[jufot]

So I wanted to take this opportunity to strongly recommend playing Last Call. Just be aware that it's all but abandoned and the last update ended on a massive cliffhanger.

I mean, you realize how that second sentence utterly destroys the excitement caused by the first, right?

 

[Hildegardt]

I mean, you realize how that second sentence utterly destroys the excitement caused by the first, right?

Apparently there's still some activity on the dev's Patreon and some people are still holding out.
The game is honestly really good imo, but I can't deny that it's only made more bittersweet by the looming abandoned tag. Especially since a pseudo-harem game like "To Be a King" is the would-be replacement according to the drama surrounding the dev team.

 

[desmosome]

+1 from me for this suggestion. Some parts are a little hamfisted, but the emphasis is still on the story and only one out of the three sex scenes feels out of place so far.
My biggest gripe with Race Of Life is that it's an on the nose redemption story, but the PC can still be played as a creepy asshole without the other characters acknowledging his assholish ways. So, the PC cheated on his ex-wife, basically also abandoning his daughter in the process. PC's inner monologue tells us that he can't change the past, but he wants to be a better person and father from now on. But he's still stringing along his new girlfriend, tells her he's too busy for something more serious, but can actively pursue other women. He can also get a BJ from a stranger in a public toilet just a day after his daughter had an accident and fell into a coma, which is the sex scene that felt out of place as I mentioned above.
So far sex scenes are used pretty sparingly (the animations are pretty good btw), which is why I'm still hopeful that there won't be too many unimmersive excuses for the PC to fuck around. On the other hand it's dependent on player's choices, if the PC is an asshole or not and maybe it's just too early to tell, after only one episode, if this will have an impact or not.

It's got some issues when it comes to fulfilling the criteria. The college stuff is quite porny. The entire bar scene, as you say, is really out there. I think it's really fun and even showcases great writing when it wants to, but the story lacks focus. It feels like a collage of different genres that doesn't quite have a smooth transition when it shifts between them. The college porny stuff would make a nice porn game. The situation with the wife makes for some excellent drama with grounded and believable characters. The racing stuff is gonna be some cool Fast and Furious thing. The medical treatment for the daughter seems like a set up for some sci-fi thing. Each of these parts are well written for what they are, but there are some issues with tonal shifts. The biggest error being the bar scene where the MC acts nothing like what we would expect given the situation he just came out of.

That's being quite critical though. I still gave it 5* because the overall game is excellent. I don't rate games just based on their "story-first-ness."

 

[Hildegardt]

The college stuff is quite porny.

Hmm, maybe, but not necessarily imo. The way the student is shown to have a crush on the PC is a little over-the-top, but I feel like it's almost refreshing how we don't immediately get a choice to act on the fucked up power dynamics. But I can see how this might easily escalate into porn-first territory in the future.
The exhibitionism scene with the girlfriend in the parking lot is pretty porny, but I don't think it necessarily takes away from the story. I think it's part of the girlfriend's character arc and there's dialogue to establish this.

I think it's really fun and even showcases great writing when it wants to, but the story lacks focus.

Yeah, I agree. It was essentially seed after seed after seed after seed getting planted. On the one hand it's nice that there are always clues and explanations for why things happen, even before they happen. On the other hand a lot of these things are unnecessary, or at least didn't have to happen all at once in the introduction.
On a positive note the inciting incident was more impactful, because we got time to bond with the characters first.

 

[camube]

Every time "To Be a King" makes it to the latest updates tab, I shed a tear for "Last Call". So I wanted to take this opportunity to strongly recommend playing Last Call. Just be aware that it's all but abandoned and the last update ended on a massive cliffhanger.

i haven't play either of them. Is Last Call devs moves on to do To Be a King?
Why do fans think Last Call is abandoned? I glanced over the patreon page just now and the dev put out a post in September

Also, Is To Be a King a meaningful choice-based game in terms of the story (like good girls gone bad for example), or it's more or less only choice-based in terms of romantic options only?

 

[Hildegardt]

i haven't play either of them. Is Last Call devs moves on to do To Be a King?
Why do fans think Last Call is abandoned? I glanced over the patreon page just now and the dev put out a post in September

Also, Is To Be a King a meaningful choice-based game in terms of the story (like good girls gone bad for example), or it's more or less only choice-based in terms of romantic options only?

There was some drama surrounding the dev team of "Last Call". They claimed "To Be a King" was only a side project of one of the devs, but development on "Last Call" slowed down anyway. Eventually the dev left the team and released a pretty big first version of "To Be a King" and regular updates since, while "Last Call" was all but adandoned.
Apparently the dev that left did the visuals for "Last Call" ("To Be a King" literally uses the same characters in different clothing), so one of the remaining devs had to step up to learn Daz to continue the project.

"Last Call" could have been the poster child for people, who prefer an actual story to a generic harem. "To Be a King" is a generic harem game. It sucks imo, but I've only tried it once some time ago.
The drama is very frustrating, because it seems like story-first games lost one of the good ones to a dev cashing in on the lowest common denominator.

 

[camube]

There was some drama surrounding the dev team of "Last Call". They claimed "To Be a King" was only a side project of one of the devs, but development on "Last Call" slowed down anyway. Eventually the dev left the team and released a pretty big first version of "To Be a King" and regular updates since, while "Last Call" was all but adandoned.
Apparently the dev that left did the visuals for "Last Call" ("To Be a King" literally uses the same characters in different clothing), so one of the remaining devs had to step up to learn Daz to continue the project.

"Last Call" could have been the poster child for people, who prefer an actual story to a generic harem. "To Be a King" is a generic harem game. It sucks imo, but I've only tried it once some time ago.
The drama is very frustrating, because it seems like story-first games lost one of the good ones to a dev cashing in on the lowest common denominator.

i see! Thank you for the explanation.

Well, people have to afford living somehow. For To Be a king dev, it's probably the wisest choice they could make so they made that choice.

I was asking because I initially thought To Be a King was story-focused, but it turned out it wasn't. I know I wouldn't try Last Call until continuous development is actually back because it's already not easy enough to wait for games that continues their development slowly, I'd rather not get hooked by abandoned games.

The one "abandoned" game that I got hooked of is Mad World btw. I do think Mad World is story-focused, in a way. The story just barely begun so I'm not sure whether it will remain true or not, but there are relatively few adult scenes in it. The characters are also somewhat interesting.

 

[Vasin]

I was browsing releases today and happened upon A Shot In The Dark. A game, in my opinion, worth keeping an eye on. Despite at first glance appearing as your run of the mill cookie cutter college AVN, it has a 2nd plot layer that involves kidnapping of one of the potential LI. How important that particular plot thread is too early to say, as the game has barely moved past what is essentially prologue but it seems to be fairly impactful.

It's the developer's second game and it shows in a good way - it has very high production value. Nice menu, buttons, graphics, music can be somewhat overbearing but the track selection is mostly fine. There is a diverse cast of characters and the way the game handles them reminded me a lot of Nothing is forever - you get a series of screens at the end of each episodes that summarises you experience with different characters and choices you've made. This game also has probably the best choice mechanics that I've seen in any VN, period. It's very upfront with you about what kind of choices there are and what they affect - there are minor choices that only alter some lines, choices that change your relationship level, choices that alter a specific scene or move plot one way or the other. There's also a *lot* of different choices.

Writing is generally pretty strong, and while there's not much to say about the plot in general, I did like the MC for the most part I found him to be fairly lifelike young adult. While he does have inexplicably high charisma, he does struggle with inner doubt and I thought that a therapy session that he gets to attend in episode 1.5 is not too far fetched albeit a bit tropey (but not more so than "therapy" you put your LIs through in NiF).

Probably the only reservation I have about the game is it's scope - 10 (!) love interests is nothing to sneeze at, and I'm afraid that like NiF it's going to lead to some stretching.

Will the game develop a plotline worthy of beating anti-college game bias and making it to the OP? Time will tell, but for want of anything better, and the game itself being quite quick to go through (although very varied with the amount of paths you can take) it's a good candidate to play and shortlist for future reference.

 

[boobsrcool]

Wasnt able to find it in the last few pages but to whoever was talking about missing Mad World I'd like to recommend

Ataegina and Worlds of Wonders though worth noting that ataegina has a relatively rough start

 

[Raife]

It's got some issues when it comes to fulfilling the criteria. The college stuff is quite porny. The entire bar scene, as you say, is really out there. I think it's really fun and even showcases great writing when it wants to, but the story lacks focus.

Agreed. I am reserving judgment about _Race of Life_ -- it could go several ways, at this point... and a few of those paths take it in to 'story first' territory. It's too early to tell, though.

It's an _extremely_ well-produced first episode, but features a pastiche of things that I find appealing and tropes that I can't stand.

• The MC's best friend has some amusing dialogue... but he's _so_ sophomoric that it's hard to see that relationship lasting if the MC decides to get serious/reconcile with his ex-wife. Sometimes men just grow out of certain friendships... it will be interesting to see if the dev is clever enough to tackle that issue.
• It's great that a number of either/or LI choices are developing, where it's tough to see how some paths can causing pain. For example, the MC is going to have to choose between his girlfriend and his ex- (or go on being a childish jack the lad).
• The ex-wife is written in an overly two-dimensional way... she's OTT bitter in a way that doesn't feel entirely credible to me. She improves over the course of the episode... but still strikes me as too passive vis-a-vis the MC. Both the ex- and Veronica have a cliched "gotta make the MC _commit_" vibe, which is a bit paleolithic. Maggie is the most realistically sketched LI, IMO. Natalya is the worst... unless she's trying to steal the MC's IP, which would be hilarious!
• I can't figure out the MC... is he an ass, or just a manchild on the verge of finally growing up?
• Love the daughter... the best thing about the episode. She's great.

_Race of Life_ could be great, if it turns into something of a redemption story about family, personal growth, and taking responsibility... or it could be pornfest with hot rods. Time will tell.

 

[Raife]

I was asking because I initially thought To Be a King was story-focused, but it turned out it wasn't. I know I wouldn't try Last Call until continuous development is actually back because it's already not easy enough to wait for games that continues their development slowly, I'd rather not get hooked by abandoned games.

_Last Call_ was an enjoyable effort; it's a shame that the dev has largely abandoned it to focus on a far, far inferior game.

My issue with LC is that a couple of slowly-building LI relationships were slammed in to overdrive by the dev, in response to the usual punter whinging about insufficient sex per episode. While it started out with some great story-first instincts, my sense is that the game was going the wrong way before the dev hit pause.

 

[desmosome]

The ex-wife is written in an overly two-dimensional way... she's OTT bitter in a way that doesn't feel entirely credible to me. She improves over the course of the episode... but still strikes me as too passive vis-a-vis the MC. Both the ex- and Veronica have a cliched "gotta make the MC _commit_" vibe, which is a bit paleolithic.

I thought the ex-wife hit the perfect spot for an interesting and grounded relationship. There are divorcees that literally hate each other's guts and there are those that split on good terms. In my opinion, those are the extremes that would be "paleolithic," to borrow your term. We've seen those extremes all the time in porn games actually.

When you consider real life, it's probably more common for this kind of relationship to be something in the middle. They "hate" each other, but not literally to the bone. They miss the good times, and regret the mistakes, but the scars that were built up during the tumultuous times will always be there. They want to do their best for their kid, so it's sort of a truce. And time does heal old wounds.

My route was an asshole route. Basically, the MC is gonna be perving. I've read some of the good guy route with the wife, and it was quite good. It just didn't seem to fit the MC I was envisioning.

The surprising thing was how consistent and realistic the interactions with the wife was on the asshole path. I mean, the MC can be kind of a prick to her, but it had nuance. He didn't come off as someone who can't stand her sight. It had a little bit of playfulness to it, like he's giving her a hard time. She, in turn, doesn't respond with malice, but with exasperation. There is a bit of back and forth with some moments of seriousness and humor, as the situation demanded. Obviously, not owning up to his cheating is a pretty shameless dick move, but that fit my MC's persona. He's deflecting blame even though he knows he's in the wrong, and he knows it won't convince her at all.

I was coasting with these asshole choices because it all felt within character, but blaming her for the accident was a step too far, so I didn't do that. Boy that was a pretty powerful scene. Despite all their differences, the MC can man up and maintain a level head for his daughter rather than lashing out unreasonably. The wife misses having this dependable person, even though she won't be able to forgive his cheating. I can totally see how this ordeal can bring them closer from there. If not to the point of romance (or lust based mistake lol), then at least to mutual understanding and respect.

I play with URM and can see when there are triggers being called to output different texts. There are a lot of variations based on the different variables and flags with the wife. That's why it feels pretty natural. There was one slight miss when the MC picks up the wife the next day because she is a bit too cold after having that bonding moment (when you don't blame her). Other than that, I really liked the attention to detail in the script.

_Race of Life_ could be great, if it turns into something of a redemption story about family, personal growth, and taking responsibility... or it could be pornfest with hot rods. Time will tell.

I think it will be both, simultaneously. That's why I am on the fence about the "story-first" nature of it. It has "story-first" segments, and then it has porn game segments. It seems to be by design rather than a case where the dev inadvertently included too many porny stuff in an otherwise serious story.

 

[TheimmortalP]

I mean, you realize how that second sentence utterly destroys the excitement caused by the first, right?

Hehehe, yeah, what the fuck? Why would someone recommend an abandoned game to someone that's specifically interested in the story first and foremost?