VN Ren'Py STWA: Unbroken [Pt. 7] [STWAdev]

4.70 star(s) 112 Votes

Quetzzz

Member
Sep 29, 2023
433
600
I think that to get to know the characters well you have to play with each of them. Because that's where you really get to know them and they really open up to you and tell you more.
Once you've played them you judge them differently. You may like them more or less, but you know their motives.
In the case of Els, she is mysterious, and very competitive. You have to be patient with her, little by little she is opening up.
Finished chapter 6, and took a small detour to play Els' sex scene.
I wish everything Valentine confronted her with, he would've done in a platonic way. This girl is crazy, she gives me the vibe of a woman who wants to get hit to feel loved. Or maybe just to feel anything.

"I wanted you, I took you, and now I have you.", positively mental. The whole sex scene plays out as a fight for dominance. Probably one of her tests, again.

But:
"I don't want to dance anymore."
"The game has been fun. Truly I've enjoyed our spars."
"But games aren't all I want. I do want more."
"You're nosy, and on occasion smug."
"You hold far too many cards close to the chest, and sometimes you concern me."
Valentine should've said something to that extent even when turning her down, instead of copping out with "now is not the place or time." These things needed to be said.

Valentine saying that if Davis wasn't redeemable, he sure as hell wouldn't be, makes me think there's another mystery box being set up. Valentine thinks he's done worse than what Davis did, so far we haven't seen anything like that.

As for the revelation about Vi's past, I was hoping there was a bit more to it than the scene at the police station. It only confirmed my suspicions that Valentine saved Vi, and it led to a fight. I'm not sure if a dog was present the last time she got a panic attack.
 

RoryTate

Member
May 15, 2018
168
362
I just played through the part where Els talks to Vi. Els really showed her colors there, it really is a game to her. She's mentioned that a few times, including to Valentine. Yeah, I'd rather not be a pawn.
To be honest, the Els/Vi interaction you are referencing here is the scene that cemented Els as "best girl" for me. Relationships are always a competition of some kind in the real world, so saying she is playing a "game" to win the MC's love ultimately says nothing about her.

More importantly though, if anyone thinks that Els is selfish and/or abusive in some way, then let me tell you, as horrible as a "mean girl" can be to a guy, they're always ten times worse to other women. That's the true gauge for spotting awful female behaviour. Especially if they are malicious enough to see that girl as an obstacle on their way to a man's affection. If Els was putting on an act (and that is a big if as far as I'm concerned), and she was truly not a nice person underneath, then she would have taken an inexperienced and shy girl like Vi and just eaten her up and spat her out without a second thought. Again, let's consider what we didn't see in this scene. There was no comment like: "You've grown into such a beautiful young woman, Vi, despite what happened to you." Ouch. We didn't see that type of negging from Els, subconsciously reminding Vi of her scars, and attempting to undercut her self-confidence. Or if you think that's bad, how about: "Before you try to win Valentine's heart, make sure you borrow my razor and get rid of that hair on your chin. Oh...sorry. My bad, that's not facial hair. Oh well, I'm sure he'll get used to it." Double ouch. Now that one is obviously too direct of an insult, but Vi's weakness is clear, and a truly awful person could easily find dozens of ways to try and destroy her through pointing out the unimportant and superficial blemishes she carries on her face and elsewhere.

But what actually happened in this scene? Well, instead we get Els giving Vi what I can only describe as an adult version of a pep talk. It is full of good advice, by encouraging Vi to fight for what she wants, and telling her to share her honest feelings with MC. That's...kind of wholesome. Personally, I saw this as Els supporting Vi in a direct way, because Els wants other women to become independent and confident too. Yes, she was honest about her own intentions to win that contest, but the bits of dialog you refer to as "warnings" to Vi have to be considered in context:

("Be careful Gingersnap, I play for keeps.", "You really don't know what you're getting into.")
With the first quote, Els is simply saying she isn't going be a pushover. She says she "plays for keeps" only after encouraging Vi to fight for what she wants, so it makes sense that Els would then say that she was going to be fighting her hardest to win the MC as well. And the context of the second quote ("You don't know what you're getting into") is specifically around Vi not understanding who the MC is, so it is part of a much different subject than warning her about some imagined retribution in general. Indeed, Vi doesn't hear it as a threat at all, and she only responds by standing up for herself and noting the many years she spent growing up with the MC as being more important than Els's shorter time spent with him as a coworker.

And as an aside, because this is important, let's actually consider this question of: "Who knows the MC best?". Els's "I'm the better match" is not her saying that MC has changed from war. What Els is noting here is that Vi still sees the MC with the blind adoration of a child. To Vi, the MC is a pristine white knight from out of a fairy tale, while Els instead understands him as a full human being, flaws and all. To Vi, the MC is still stuck in that "apple in a young girl's eye" fantasy of an older boy, which Els recognizes – rightfully – as not serving as a good starting point for a healthy long-term relationship. This is a very strong insight from her. By saying: "You don't understand him like I do" she's actually trying to help Vi, and the MC too, by giving Vi some "tough love" and telling her to grow up and see him with a woman's eyes, or if they do end up together, neither of them are going to be happy in the long run when reality inevitably destroys that illusion.

So yeah, I think we came into that conversation with very different perspectives, and it definitely changed how we viewed Els's actions within it quite significantly. I accept that I could be wrong about who she is, though I think that is not likely. However, if future actions do reveal a more dismissive and completely selfish personality, then I'll be willing to admit that her act fooled me. But that would require some major recontextualization through a strong narrative thrust by the story's author to not break verisimilitude for me. Els has had a lot of opportunities and temptations to go full sociopath if that's what she was truly hiding, but – so far at least – she has shown herself through her actions to be a person of integrity, and so I'm running with that for now.

And while we are at it, does she want to help the MC out of concern, friendship and love or because she can hold on to the hope, that if he can be fixed, she can too.
Your ideas about how Els sees her enjoyment of violence (or at least being drawn to violence out of some morbid curiousity) as something truly disgusting about her, and a serious character flaw only the MC could accept, is an interesting facet of her personality I hadn't really considered. This could indeed be the case, but there's a disconnect that happens here. At this point in the story, without any context for her concern, my honest reaction to this revelation from her would be: "Congratulations. You're an adrenaline junkie. Now let's celebrate by having some more wild and rough sex." :LOL: Yes, that's a bit of a crass joke about what is probably a touchy subject for her, but right now I can't see why she cares so much about this. You think you're the only person in the world who has twisted thoughts sometimes? Seriously?

I mean, there could be something truly dark behind it all, but I also wonder if it's maybe partly indulgent self-pity that's making it overblown. On the one hand, Els seems too strong-willed to feel sorry for herself over nothing, but on the other hand people can surprise you with their ability to delude themselves.

Actually, this might be a sort of last resort for a smart MC to draw out those secrets from Els. MC: "You know you just sound like you're wallowing in self-pity? Part of me wants to just tell you to snap out of it." Els: "You don't know what I've seen, or what I've been through." MC: "Yeah, I don't. And that's the problem. Until I do, all I can say is to stop feeling sorry for yourself. Because you know what? I'm tired of having to imagine all the horrible memories that would make you put up such huge walls around yourself, all so that I don't 'hurt your feelings'. Look. If you're not ready to talk about it, then I won't make you. But you should understand: it's mentally exhausting for me to live like this."

I just played this part (but plan to reload and watch the video instead).
Valentine isn't hurting a fly, he's not suicidal (though he's not really living yet either), and he's not depressed.
Well, the MC does have long conversations with his two dead friends regularly. Though I understand what you are saying here, because even those particular delusions (whether they are diagnosed as just auditory hallucinations or outright schizophrenia) are not really presented to the reader as an "illness" that he is concerned about. In the story they just sort of...happen. The imagined conversations are used more as a narrative device to avoid relying on excessive flashbacks than anything else. So I feel it doesn't quite land to us readers as representative of his poor mental health. However, even if those interactions are just meant as symbolic and are not an actual psychological issue that is dealt with directly, it's still clear from them that he has things that are bothering him from his past life.

So I don't think that therapy is out of the question here, though a lot of that depends on getting the right kind of therapist. The MC has been dealing reasonably well with his problems so far, at least to my untrained eye. So as long as he gets counseling from someone who recognizes that he is processing things in a "moving into the future" manner (the more "masculine" approach to healing, which is primarily done through being active and by the creation of new memories and experiences) rather than forcing him into a "reminiscing about the past" solution (the more "feminine" approach, realized through talking and the discussion and understanding of existing memories), then I think he can benefit from some professional insight into his situation. That's why I think the "group chat session" stuff at the Center is not a good fit for him. Like most guys, he just leaves long discussions and meetings mentally exhausted and feeling like both they and he were unproductive. Physical training and fighting have clear and tangible outcomes, which from the story have shown to mean more to his mental well-being than endless talking and words.
 

RoryTate

Member
May 15, 2018
168
362
No El slander pls.
I know this was very likely made in jest, but as someone who is rocking an Elspeth-exclusive save as their canon playthrough, let me with all seriousness say that I welcome any and all criticism of characters, stories, etc, that I happen to like. If the comment is made in good faith, then well-thought-out critique helps me to better understand why I enjoy something. And if it happens that I'm not able to properly rationalize my position in favour of that character, plot element, etc, then I get to see the stuff that I missed and I learn more about the story just the same. It's a win-win either way.
 

RoryTate

Member
May 15, 2018
168
362
A few last interesting topics that I missed addressing in writing out my earlier wall of text:

Els admonishes Valentine for having a wall, while the Centre might very well be a part of her wall. Objectively she's putting good in the world, but what if all the volunteers and vets are just there to validate her sense of self-worth (as the heir), or if she did it out of a sense of guilt?
This is a bit of a philosophical distinction, but the word "altruism" doesn't necessarily involve a detailed deconstruction of base human instincts and motivations. Otherwise, every possible action that a human being can take comes down to: "It makes me feel good", and everything just becomes morally grey. Personally I disagree with that kind of mindset (not saying this is what you believe, I just want to use it to frame my point). Consider the case where Els felt that same sense of guilt and she became overwhelmed and responded by becoming a drug addict, and running from her pain. I would call that response/behaviour "selfish", and at some point "destructive". However, if she instead takes action by pouring herself into volunteer work and trying to make up for the wrongs she feels she has committed, then I call that behaviour "altruistic". I believe this is a very real and important description for us to have in our language, because it is not easy or common that someone reacts with such maturity and so productively for the larger community when they feel strong guilt and possibly even self-hatred over past decisions.

Whatever her emotional needs are that drive her to help others at the Centre, the most important point is that she is actively working to make the world a better place. And maintaining that kind of commitment to volunteer work is not easy. I actually have experience in this type of situation. I spent over 15 years with a specific volunteer organization, and I can count the number of people who kept at it for more than a few months on both of my hands. Helping out the larger community is not work you can do for long because of anger or some other vulgar selfish desire; it takes a strong sense of purpose and personal investment in the activity to persevere for any significant period of time.

Yet she will become heir to the Astair family. I don't really see this, tbh. The way I see it, that status and influence is guaranteed.
Most people living in Elspeth's shoes would have grown up to be a spoiled brat, waving around their money and status as a young adult to get everything in life handed to them on a silver platter. But she chose a much different path. She angered her family by immediately joining the military when out of high school (against their wishes), which risked her future status as their "heir". She worked hard to become her own person – someone who is self-sufficient and does not rely on her family for anything (at least if she can help it). The things she has in her life right now are only those things she has earned, and that is the stark difference I see.

Is she a perfect person? The answer to that is of course no. She has her own flaws and conceits, just the same as any human being.

Are many of her actions laudable and worthy of consideration? I would say the answer to that is most definitely a resounding yes.
 

parachina

Member
Oct 3, 2017
189
95
Hi guys,

Since there is no update from the replay mod, I made a new one:

Gallery Mod:
Update date
: 03.10.23
Game version : The Unbroken Pt6

Features:
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Installation :
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Feedbacks are welcome ! ;) Oh and if you think that I have missed some scenes, let me know.
any time the MC speaks i get errors:

Full traceback:
File "game/gallery_mod/replays.rpy", line 1881, in script
mc "And what's got you so flustered?"
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 678, in execute
who = eval_who(self.who, self.who_fast)
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 576, in eval_who
raise Exception("Sayer '%s' is not defined." % who.encode("utf-8"))
Exception: Sayer 'mc' is not defined.
 

cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
59,290
29,533
Wow! Just... wow! Yup! That's why I joined F95, to read philosophical treatises about the motivations of NPCs in a porn game!

I wonder, though, what Descartes would say about this.
he'd have died already due stroke or would be happily fapping.
 
Oct 10, 2022
4,349
7,724
Wow! Just... wow! Yup! That's why I joined F95, to read philosophical treatises about the motivations of NPCs in a porn game!

I wonder, though, what Descartes would say about this.
Descartes says “I now seem to be able to lay it down as a general rule that whatever I perceive very clearly and distinctly is true”, so I'd think he would have avoid to make a comment for an unfinished business due to lack of clarity. :unsure:
 

Sin_Mechero

Member
Mar 27, 2022
330
1,010
Finished chapter 6, and took a small detour to play Els' sex scene.
I wish everything Valentine confronted her with, he would've done in a platonic way. This girl is crazy, she gives me the vibe of a woman who wants to get hit to feel loved. Or maybe just to feel anything.

"I wanted you, I took you, and now I have you.", positively mental. The whole sex scene plays out as a fight for dominance. Probably one of her tests, again.
It's good that we can perceive the same character in such a different way. Els is hiding something that we don't know yet what it is, but I see her as far from being crazy, but she is a special character, and she requires some characteristics that she only sees in the Mc, she is an extremely smart girl, who needs someone capable of stimulating her.
In this case I see the scene with Kana as more aggressive than with Els.
The bite is about being brothers in arms and bleeding for each other. And the rest I see it as a way of playing or teasing each other in the scene, I just see them as two active people in bed.

But:
"I don't want to dance anymore."
"The game has been fun. Truly I've enjoyed our spars."
"But games aren't all I want. I do want more."
"You're nosy, and on occasion smug."
"You hold far too many cards close to the chest, and sometimes you concern me."
Valentine should've said something to that extent even when turning her down, instead of copping out with "now is not the place or time." These things needed to be said.
First of all, I have the feeling that you are mixing paths. The logical thing to do would be not to kiss her if you are not interested in her.
However, I don't disagree with you that in that case he could have given her some other more detailed justification.
Valentine saying that if Davis wasn't redeemable, he sure as hell wouldn't be, makes me think there's another mystery box being set up. Valentine thinks he's done worse than what Davis did, so far we haven't seen anything like that.

As for the revelation about Vi's past, I was hoping there was a bit more to it than the scene at the police station. It only confirmed my suspicions that Valentine saved Vi, and it led to a fight. I'm not sure if a dog was present the last time she got a panic attack.
He says that about Davis, because he has done the same things Davis did to other people, and other things we don't know.
He killed whoever he was ordered to kill without thinking, leaving their loved ones just as fucked up as Davis left him.

We know the outcome. That because of that fight, he left another person badly hurt. And possibly that is what made him enlist, to avoid further punishment. (It all looks like there was a dog involved, I imagine he would then take it out on the owner. But that remains to be seen.)
 
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Bombmaster

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2022
1,300
2,077
Maybe I'm missing reading about Els competitive streak and turning everything into a game, should it be so strange for someone coming from a very successful family that in a way to compartalize she turned this competitive environment in a game to keep a degree of sanity and maybe having a little fun.
 

Jericho85

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2022
1,451
4,846
To be honest, the Els/Vi interaction you are referencing here is the scene that cemented Els as "best girl" for me. Relationships are always a competition of some kind in the real world, so saying she is playing a "game" to win the MC's love ultimately says nothing about her.

More importantly though, if anyone thinks that Els is selfish and/or abusive in some way, then let me tell you, as horrible as a "mean girl" can be to a guy, they're always ten times worse to other women. That's the true gauge for spotting awful female behaviour. Especially if they are malicious enough to see that girl as an obstacle on their way to a man's affection. If Els was putting on an act (and that is a big if as far as I'm concerned), and she was truly not a nice person underneath, then she would have taken an inexperienced and shy girl like Vi and just eaten her up and spat her out without a second thought. Again, let's consider what we didn't see in this scene. There was no comment like: "You've grown into such a beautiful young woman, Vi, despite what happened to you." Ouch. We didn't see that type of negging from Els, subconsciously reminding Vi of her scars, and attempting to undercut her self-confidence. Or if you think that's bad, how about: "Before you try to win Valentine's heart, make sure you borrow my razor and get rid of that hair on your chin. Oh...sorry. My bad, that's not facial hair. Oh well, I'm sure he'll get used to it." Double ouch. Now that one is obviously too direct of an insult, but Vi's weakness is clear, and a truly awful person could easily find dozens of ways to try and destroy her through pointing out the unimportant and superficial blemishes she carries on her face and elsewhere.

But what actually happened in this scene? Well, instead we get Els giving Vi what I can only describe as an adult version of a pep talk. It is full of good advice, by encouraging Vi to fight for what she wants, and telling her to share her honest feelings with MC. That's...kind of wholesome. Personally, I saw this as Els supporting Vi in a direct way, because Els wants other women to become independent and confident too. Yes, she was honest about her own intentions to win that contest, but the bits of dialog you refer to as "warnings" to Vi have to be considered in context:



With the first quote, Els is simply saying she isn't going be a pushover. She says she "plays for keeps" only after encouraging Vi to fight for what she wants, so it makes sense that Els would then say that she was going to be fighting her hardest to win the MC as well. And the context of the second quote ("You don't know what you're getting into") is specifically around Vi not understanding who the MC is, so it is part of a much different subject than warning her about some imagined retribution in general. Indeed, Vi doesn't hear it as a threat at all, and she only responds by standing up for herself and noting the many years she spent growing up with the MC as being more important than Els's shorter time spent with him as a coworker.

And as an aside, because this is important, let's actually consider this question of: "Who knows the MC best?". Els's "I'm the better match" is not her saying that MC has changed from war. What Els is noting here is that Vi still sees the MC with the blind adoration of a child. To Vi, the MC is a pristine white knight from out of a fairy tale, while Els instead understands him as a full human being, flaws and all. To Vi, the MC is still stuck in that "apple in a young girl's eye" fantasy of an older boy, which Els recognizes – rightfully – as not serving as a good starting point for a healthy long-term relationship. This is a very strong insight from her. By saying: "You don't understand him like I do" she's actually trying to help Vi, and the MC too, by giving Vi some "tough love" and telling her to grow up and see him with a woman's eyes, or if they do end up together, neither of them are going to be happy in the long run when reality inevitably destroys that illusion.

So yeah, I think we came into that conversation with very different perspectives, and it definitely changed how we viewed Els's actions within it quite significantly. I accept that I could be wrong about who she is, though I think that is not likely. However, if future actions do reveal a more dismissive and completely selfish personality, then I'll be willing to admit that her act fooled me. But that would require some major recontextualization through a strong narrative thrust by the story's author to not break verisimilitude for me. Els has had a lot of opportunities and temptations to go full sociopath if that's what she was truly hiding, but – so far at least – she has shown herself through her actions to be a person of integrity, and so I'm running with that for now.



Your ideas about how Els sees her enjoyment of violence (or at least being drawn to violence out of some morbid curiousity) as something truly disgusting about her, and a serious character flaw only the MC could accept, is an interesting facet of her personality I hadn't really considered. This could indeed be the case, but there's a disconnect that happens here. At this point in the story, without any context for her concern, my honest reaction to this revelation from her would be: "Congratulations. You're an adrenaline junkie. Now let's celebrate by having some more wild and rough sex." :LOL: Yes, that's a bit of a crass joke about what is probably a touchy subject for her, but right now I can't see why she cares so much about this. You think you're the only person in the world who has twisted thoughts sometimes? Seriously?

I mean, there could be something truly dark behind it all, but I also wonder if it's maybe partly indulgent self-pity that's making it overblown. On the one hand, Els seems too strong-willed to feel sorry for herself over nothing, but on the other hand people can surprise you with their ability to delude themselves.

Actually, this might be a sort of last resort for a smart MC to draw out those secrets from Els. MC: "You know you just sound like you're wallowing in self-pity? Part of me wants to just tell you to snap out of it." Els: "You don't know what I've seen, or what I've been through." MC: "Yeah, I don't. And that's the problem. Until I do, all I can say is to stop feeling sorry for yourself. Because you know what? I'm tired of having to imagine all the horrible memories that would make you put up such huge walls around yourself, all so that I don't 'hurt your feelings'. Look. If you're not ready to talk about it, then I won't make you. But you should understand: it's mentally exhausting for me to live like this."



Well, the MC does have long conversations with his two dead friends regularly. Though I understand what you are saying here, because even those particular delusions (whether they are diagnosed as just auditory hallucinations or outright schizophrenia) are not really presented to the reader as an "illness" that he is concerned about. In the story they just sort of...happen. The imagined conversations are used more as a narrative device to avoid relying on excessive flashbacks than anything else. So I feel it doesn't quite land to us readers as representative of his poor mental health. However, even if those interactions are just meant as symbolic and are not an actual psychological issue that is dealt with directly, it's still clear from them that he has things that are bothering him from his past life.

So I don't think that therapy is out of the question here, though a lot of that depends on getting the right kind of therapist. The MC has been dealing reasonably well with his problems so far, at least to my untrained eye. So as long as he gets counseling from someone who recognizes that he is processing things in a "moving into the future" manner (the more "masculine" approach to healing, which is primarily done through being active and by the creation of new memories and experiences) rather than forcing him into a "reminiscing about the past" solution (the more "feminine" approach, realized through talking and the discussion and understanding of existing memories), then I think he can benefit from some professional insight into his situation. That's why I think the "group chat session" stuff at the Center is not a good fit for him. Like most guys, he just leaves long discussions and meetings mentally exhausted and feeling like both they and he were unproductive. Physical training and fighting have clear and tangible outcomes, which from the story have shown to mean more to his mental well-being than endless talking and words.

didnt-read-lol-did-not-read.gif
 

Quetzzz

Member
Sep 29, 2023
433
600
To be honest, the Els/Vi interaction you are referencing here is the scene that cemented Els as "best girl" for me. Relationships are always a competition of some kind in the real world, so saying she is playing a "game" to win the MC's love ultimately says nothing about her.
Maybe we just see it differently, for me, a relationship is a cooperation. It's give and take. It actually sounds exhausting to have to compete with my partner.

If Els was putting on an act (and that is a big if as far as I'm concerned), and she was truly not a nice person underneath, then she would have taken an inexperienced and shy girl like Vi and just eaten her up and spat her out without a second thought. Again, let's consider what we didn't see in this scene.
For clarity, I think Els is crazy (in the unresolved issues-way), I don't think she's evil. And, being facetious, Els didn't kill her competition, but does that make her a good person? Sure, she could've been actually mean and destroy Vi with words, instead she (again) made a game out of it. That's her hubris showing. I don't think it's a good personality trait. Els didn't say "You really don't know what you're getting into." for Vi's benefit, I don't think.
The main question might be what exactly she's referencing. Does it apply to how she thinks Valentine and her are the same, and that Vi can't handle that? Or that Vi has no idea how to play Els' games? Maybe something else?

Els sees in Valentine a kindred spirit, someone who, by lack of a better description, lives for conflict. I think it's dangerous to take Els' word for it (as a player), that Valentine is actually this way. If he isn't, then Vi has nothing to worry about.

But what actually happened in this scene? Well, instead we get Els giving Vi what I can only describe as an adult version of a pep talk. It is full of good advice, by encouraging Vi to fight for what she wants, and telling her to share her honest feelings with MC.
Yes, you're right, I can see that as well. Maybe it's a language issue, and certainly it's partly because of my subjective opinion of Els, I just don't see it as well-meaning. Though, in the end, it's up to Vi how she interpreted it. And having had the talk with her afterward, she did open up about her feelings.

So yeah, I think we came into that conversation with very different perspectives, and it definitely changed how we viewed Els's actions within it quite significantly. I accept that I could be wrong about who she is, though I think that is not likely. However, if future actions do reveal a more dismissive and completely selfish personality, then I'll be willing to admit that her act fooled me.
You did somewhat mellow my initial frustration with Els. I'm not discounting her out of hand anymore, though I'm still very weary of her actions and motivations. I'm glad your view on her differs from mine, because it challenges me to dig a bit deeper, to find exactly what's bugging me. This might sound self-serving, I just really enjoy conversations like these.
As for Els, she might actually love Valentine, or at least her idea of who and what Valentine is.

I got curious and looked into the points certain choices give in the game's code.
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Well, the MC does have long conversations with his two dead friends regularly. Though I understand what you are saying here, because even those particular delusions (whether they are diagnosed as just auditory hallucinations or outright schizophrenia) are not really presented to the reader as an "illness" that he is concerned about. In the story they just sort of...happen. The imagined conversations are used more as a narrative device to avoid relying on excessive flashbacks than anything else. So I feel it doesn't quite land to us readers as representative of his poor mental health. However, even if those interactions are just meant as symbolic and are not an actual psychological issue that is dealt with directly, it's still clear from them that he has things that are bothering him from his past life.
I think you hit the nail on the head that these are narrative constructs. Valentine doesn't talk to them out loud. I see it more as intrusive thoughts, not delusions per se. Though, the game's a bit wishy-washy with them. We don't know if Davis was the first to appear after his (unconfirmed) death. We see Valentine motioning or even holding them, but we don't know if bystanders would see him actually sitting, or standing in the pose we're shown.
When Zaina says "One last time" (For their sex scene.), I think this is Valentine slowly getting closure and allowing room for a new love. The apparition of Zaina is Valentine, so it's Valentine tempting himself to indulge one more time, or not. But it's the last time, he's slowly saying goodbye. So much depends on what STWA means with these constructs. If they are actual hallucinations, then Valentine is doing worse than I think. If they're just constructs to replace an inner monologue, then that's fine.

So I don't think that therapy is out of the question here, though a lot of that depends on getting the right kind of therapist. The MC has been dealing reasonably well with his problems so far, at least to my untrained eye.
All things considered, he's doing great. Vi shows more signs of PTSD than Valentine does. Valentine's issues aren't as much stress related, as they are about having learned the wrong lessons and habits.
When I say that Valentine doesn't need therapy, I'm not saying he couldn't benefit from it regardless. Everyone could benefit from therapy, we all have some issues or bad habits that we can use help with. From what I'm seeing, Valentine is getting a handle on things. At least as a Face, it seems that way. Maybe if I'd made more Heel choices, I would think differently.

You're right about the masculine and feminine way of dealing with things. Men support each other by shooting the shit, good-natured ribbing and just blowing off steam. In that sense, Els' talk with Valentine at the beach-bar in Mallorca was way more effective. I almost told her I needed help, but (roleplaying) I didn't want to give her the win, not play her game. And there was probably some pride involved as well.
 
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Quetzzz

Member
Sep 29, 2023
433
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I know this was very likely made in jest, but as someone who is rocking an Elspeth-exclusive save as their canon playthrough, let me with all seriousness say that I welcome any and all criticism of characters, stories, etc, that I happen to like. If the comment is made in good faith, then well-thought-out critique helps me to better understand why I enjoy something. And if it happens that I'm not able to properly rationalize my position in favour of that character, plot element, etc, then I get to see the stuff that I missed and I learn more about the story just the same. It's a win-win either way.
If anything, it's a compliment to STWA for writing characters that actually have depth (I'm looking at you, My Bully is My Lover). I'm much the same, I enjoy the conversation and have gained many new insights that I wouldn't have come to on my own.
 

Quetzzz

Member
Sep 29, 2023
433
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In this case I see the scene with Kana as more aggressive than with Els.
The bite is about being brothers in arms and bleeding for each other. And the rest I see it as a way of playing or teasing each other in the scene, I just see them as two active people in bed.
For me, Kana explained it when she said (paraphrasing) that she has needs and that it's been a long time. They both were "in the moment".
With Els, who makes everything a game or a test, I'm not sure if it's just playing and teasing. Els is a lot more complicated than that, and we know she has serious issues with giving up control. (Note how catty and passive-aggressive she was right before Mallorca.)

First of all, I have the feeling that you are mixing paths. The logical thing to do would be not to kiss her if you are not interested in her.
However, I don't disagree with you that in that case he could have given her some other more detailed justification.
I did. Because of this conversation I took a few Els paths to see how they played out, out of curiosity, then reloaded and went back to the choice I actually wanted to do.
When turning down Els, I wished the MC would have said above things to her. The way I see it, Valentine holds the cards. Els wants him, yet she's making him play her game.

He says that about Davis, because he has done the same things Davis did to other people, and other things we don't know.
He killed whoever he was ordered to kill without thinking, leaving their loved ones just as fucked up as Davis left him.
That's a good call! He actually says as much to Vi. I didn't make that link, and thought it had to do with serious betrayal.

We know the outcome. That because of that fight, he left another person badly hurt. And possibly that is what made him enlist, to avoid further punishment. (It all looks like there was a dog involved, I imagine he would then take it out on the owner. But that remains to be seen.)
Yeah, that's where I'm at as well.
 

arkypoub

Member
Nov 18, 2018
329
712
any time the MC speaks i get errors:

Full traceback:
File "game/gallery_mod/replays.rpy", line 1881, in script
mc "And what's got you so flustered?"
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 678, in execute
who = eval_who(self.who, self.who_fast)
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 576, in eval_who
raise Exception("Sayer '%s' is not defined." % who.encode("utf-8"))
Exception: Sayer 'mc' is not defined.
Ahhh! I think it's because you ran the gallery without playing the game before... I hadn't thought of that... I will add the possibility to modify your name in the gallery. So to fix your problem, you have to run the game at least once to enter your name (and then you can leave the game and go to the gallery).
 
Last edited:

arkypoub

Member
Nov 18, 2018
329
712
any time the MC speaks i get errors:

Full traceback:
File "game/gallery_mod/replays.rpy", line 1881, in script
mc "And what's got you so flustered?"
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 678, in execute
who = eval_who(self.who, self.who_fast)
File "D:\Users\xxx\Downloads\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed (1)\TheUnbroken-Pt.6-pc-compressed\renpy\ast.py", line 576, in eval_who
raise Exception("Sayer '%s' is not defined." % who.encode("utf-8"))
Exception: Sayer 'mc' is not defined.
Updated. You can input your name in the gallery now (first thumbnail). :rolleyes:
 
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