VN Ren'Py STWA: Unbroken [Pt. 7] [STWAdev]

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

shes a journalist at the press conference prior to valentines first fight and asks him questions

Spoiler: How did I miss this?!

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[Krytax123]

For me, Kana explained it when she said (paraphrasing) that she has needs and that it's been a long time. They both were "in the moment".
With Els, who makes everything a game or a test, I'm not sure if it's just playing and teasing. Els is a lot more complicated than that, and we know she has serious issues with giving up control. (Note how catty and passive-aggressive she was right before Mallorca.)


I did. Because of this conversation I took a few Els paths to see how they played out, out of curiosity, then reloaded and went back to the choice I actually wanted to do.
When turning down Els, I wished the MC would have said above things to her. The way I see it, Valentine holds the cards. Els wants him, yet she's making him play her game.


That's a good call! He actually says as much to Vi. I didn't make that link, and thought it had to do with serious betrayal.


Yeah, that's where I'm at as well.

You're kinda sounding like you're (or your mc) is intimidated by her and her attitude which is exactly her problem and the reason shes lacking friends or love interrest in her past.

She likes to challange or even taunt valentine, its part of her being but she only does it because she knows that valentine can take it, wont back down and will challange her thoughts or views himself too. Its not unusual for females to desire a partner who's at least as strong/capable as themself.

But her actions never intend to hurt valentine, she just deeply cares not matter if shes in love or just a friend. She has a desire to help people or search for redemption.

And yeah shes pushing valentine to confront his issues while not being able to resolve her own issues. Shes obviously not able to, at least not on her own or not yet but sooner or later valentine will (has to imo) push her the same way to open up. Sometimes you need help to tackle your problems even when you dont feel like it.

And Els is the only one (maybe macnab too but different) who sees through him, he isnt/wasnt happy no matter how much he pretended at the start of the avn.

He (very) obviously has comittment issues, the only time he comitted to a woman ended in her being killed by his best friend which makes it reasonable for him to try to avoid feeling a loss like this again in the future and therefore limiting his own ability to love someone again.

Esp on the romance route its reasonable, Els isnt an easy going girl awaiting an uncertain outcome regarding to her relationship. Shes a serious woman and she wants valentine as her partner, him being able to love again seems like a goal which would benefit both of them and is nessecary for any kind of serious relationship.

 

[RoryTate]

Maybe we just see it differently, for me, a relationship is a cooperation. It's give and take. It actually sounds exhausting to have to compete with my partner.

When I said relationships were a game I was talking about the bigger picture, namely the game of overall mate selection within the sexual marketplace. We started off talking about the Vi and Els interaction where they discuss competing for the MC, and the way Els enjoyed playing the simple game of who gets chosen as a partner, and why other potential mates must therefore be considered "less compelling options". So that's why I said the "game" description was obvious and not meaningful in describing how Els approached that talk. And just as an aside, I do find that particular subject quite fascinating. Applying the concept of game theory to mating at the level of populations can be quite fun and insightful at times.

But yeah, Els does also make a relationship itself a game, which can indeed be frustrating because that kind of intimacy should be an equal partnership. So far it hasn't gotten out of hand and so it feels fine for the most part, to me at least. But I've been through enough "bullshit tests" to abhor that kind of treatment from someone who is supposed to care about me, so I can understand why people don't want to put up with it even for a second. In that context, your criticism of her is indeed warranted. Els needs to grow up a bit and hopefully not turn everything in a close relationship into a "dick measuring" contest. Best case scenario?...this is just the up front "courtship dance", and she mellows a lot once the MC proves his viability. Worst case scenario?...kick her to the curb.

You did somewhat mellow my initial frustration with Els. I'm not discounting her out of hand anymore, though I'm still very weary of her actions and motivations. I'm glad your view on her differs from mine, because it challenges me to dig a bit deeper, to find exactly what's bugging me. This might sound self-serving, I just really enjoy conversations like these.

I'm glad I might have smoothed out a few things about her that you interpreted differently. I actually took your criticism in good faith and wondered myself if there was anything about her story and actions that I might have missed. And because of what you and others have revealed I do realize that building a relationship with Els is going to be a lot more complicated and volatile than I had previously imagined. She's still "best girl" for me by a country mile, but I'm definitely more cautious and wary now than I used to be about her intentions.

Wow, it sounds like we both became more moderate – and grew closer – in our attitudes/opinions after discussing things like reasonable people. Huh. Imagine that.

I got curious and looked into the points certain choices give in the game's code.

Her trust score did indeed change strangely – and significantly in opposing directions! – with the choice of bite or no bite, which is interesting to consider. You know, that reminds me: the way Elspeth's trust and friendship points are getting distributed so far in the game feels a bit bizarre. There was a scene in an earlier chapter where the player needed trust > friendship to get on Els's romance path I think. And since then a lot of the "good" choices for her have increased her trust, while weirdly decreasing her friendship at the same time. I think this might be the dev's way of simulating the idea of "not being friend-zoned" by her. Though why trust always seems to be gained at the expense of friendship is strange. And this is an Els-only thing, since none of the other LIs has a "trust" variable, while all of them except Vi have a "friend" variable. Perhaps the "trust" score exists because Els wants to find people who challenge her and who she can learn and grow from being around? And so that trusted person, whether they end up being a romantic interest or not, cannot be a friend who always tries to say the "nice, friendly thing" to her?

Hmm. I just loaded up my Els-exclusive playthrough to take a peek at where her variables are right now, and I actually have her friendship score in the negative. It's strange to say it, but I don't think that's a bad thing in terms of building a relationship with her. It could be that it needs to be a minimum for some important future choice/path, but we'll see I guess.

If anything, it's a compliment to STWA for writing characters that actually have depth (I'm looking at you, My Bully is My Lover). I'm much the same, I enjoy the conversation and have gained many new insights that I wouldn't have come to on my own.

The greatest thing about the rise of independent media (YouTube, Bandcamp, F95zone, and so many others) are the enthusiastic communities that develop around those creations, and all the interesting interactions that can be had therein.

I'd like to add, seems nobody noticed or remembered, Els recorded MC and her dad's talk while she was not there so she can listen what's been told behind her back. If this is not a red flag I don't know what is.

I must admit, I didn't notice that. Now I'm going to have to go back and see what was said in that conversation, and understand what in the discussion would be so important to Els (other than that she was the topic of conversation of course). I guess it could just be the "control enthusiast" in her wanting every bit of information she can get her hands on, just in case it was useful somehow. Hard to say, especially considering her military intelligence background. Gathering intel when the opportunity presented itself could just be second nature to her at this point.

 

[RoryTate]

She was MI, Military Intelligence, and yet she challenges an SFO, Special Forces Operator, that she has seen or been in as much shit as he, that's ludicrous and a clear break with reality. MI's can get deployed to combat zones, to take statements, follow up on tips or debrief informants, but they don't get deployed into combat, that's not their training or their job. It CAN happen, but to say that she has seen as much action to someone who has trained local forces behind enemy lines is just bonkers.

I don't remember her saying that she had seen the same amount of "action" as the MC, though I can't recall the specific words, so I could be wrong about that. I think she only intimated that she had "experiences" that were comparable to his, or something like that. And I think she does have a valid point there. There is an important difference in the feeling of culpability for commanders, intelligence personnel, etc, who have to make decisions that cause the deaths of allies and friends, whereas a soldier only deals mostly with their responsibility for killing other enemy soldiers. Living daily with the knowledge that people you care about will die because of what you tell them to do, and inevitably making mistakes that cause large numbers of unneeded deaths among those who trusted you?...I can see that weighing quite heavily on someone's conscience, as compared to the simple "kill or be killed" of ground combat, where the ethical questions are far more black and white.

Spoiler: Speculation about Elspeth's secret

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[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I must admit, I didn't notice that. Now I'm going to have to go back and see what was said in that conversation, and understand what in the discussion would be so important to Els (other than that she was the topic of conversation of course). I guess it could just be the "control enthusiast" in her wanting every bit of information she can get her hands on, just in case it was useful somehow. Hard to say, especially considering her military intelligence background. Gathering intel when the opportunity presented itself could just be second nature to her at this point.

It's not what they talked though, it's what she did.
What they talked was basically MC saying Els did good with Centre you can trust with your money etc. and her father said I don't care about that I only came for my daughter etc. scene cuts there with implication there was more.

 

[Quetzzz]

You're kinda sounding like you're (or your mc) is intimidated by her and her attitude which is exactly her problem and the reason shes lacking friends or love interrest in her past.

She likes to challange or even taunt valentine, its part of her being but she only does it because she knows that valentine can take it, wont back down and will challange her thoughts or views himself too. Its not unusual for females to desire a partner who's at least as strong/capable as themself.

Intimidated isn't the right word. On his toes, maybe. My MC is very weary of Els' motivations because of all the reasons I've mentioned before. She's a master manipulator.
My issue with her isn't that she challenges Valentine, but that she doesn't follow through when Valentine challenges her.

But her actions never intend to hurt valentine, she just deeply cares not matter if shes in love or just a friend. She has a desire to help people or search for redemption.

I agree, never said otherwise. I might have my doubts on her motivation though.

And yeah shes pushing valentine to confront his issues while not being able to resolve her own issues. Shes obviously not able to, at least not on her own or not yet but sooner or later valentine will (has to imo) push her the same way to open up. Sometimes you need help to tackle your problems even when you dont feel like it.

And that's the crux of my issues with her. Els should've made a choice. In the pool, either she should've kissed Valentine, or break his walls. Not both. She muddied the waters. My impression was that she got off on the confrontation, and her "afraid of a little domestic?" (paraphrasing) in Mallorca reinforces that feeling I have about her.

And Els is the only one (maybe macnab too but different) who sees through him, he isnt/wasnt happy no matter how much he pretended at the start of the avn.

Devil's advocate... But is she really seeing through him, or is she seeing things in Valentine that aren't there? If we use some meta reasoning, and consider that Els is 100% right about Valentine... Then no other Love Interest would have a shot, Els would be the perfect partner. Obviously that isn't the case, which means Els is fallible. We don't have to take her on her word. She could be wrong about Valentine.

He (very) obviously has comittment issues, the only time he comitted to a woman ended in her being killed by his best friend which makes it reasonable for him to try to avoid feeling a loss like this again in the future and therefore limiting his own ability to love someone again.

I don't think he's afraid of commitment. The Centre, training Amrit, becoming a champion... All of those are huge commitments. Valentine himself says it at a certain point, he discovered that women just threw them at him, and he lost himself and made bad choices. All things considered, he just wasn't over Zaida yet, not ready to actually love and be emotionally open with a partner. He's clearly working on that now, though.

Esp on the romance route its reasonable, Els isnt an easy going girl awaiting an uncertain outcome regarding to her relationship. Shes a serious woman and she wants valentine as her partner, him being able to love again seems like a goal which would benefit both of them and is nessecary for any kind of serious relationship.

It's funny, I'm thinking the same, but draw the opposite conclusion. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds to me like you're saying "She wants the perfect partner in Valentine, so she's making sure to help him.". I think I'll like Els a lot more on the friendship path, where she'll help Valentine unconditionally, not because she stands to gain from it. ;-)

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Spoiler

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I don't think so, she did not know MC before they met in London long after the events, she was part of UK forces and it was a secret US operation involving secret service not a joint operation, McNab and local insurgents was involved through MC. Also I don't think Elspeth would operate on guilt. It also does not explain about her death friend, or her visions etc.

Still we need to wait and see but my bet, she has some issues coming from childhood or even from birth and that somehow got killed her elder brother then she tried to fill his shoes and went to military for various reasons but not for her guilt. She started over there and caused someone's death, most probable one is that Anastasia girl. So she had to leave military too and now she is doing rinse&repeat thing with MC. If I am somehow correct, then one of the MC&Elspeth ending will involve death within.

Also everyone missing an IMO important point. Davis' death. We know Davis was not for marrying, characters mentioned a few times that, suddenly getting married with a mysterious lady. Iirc, taking the ferry was her idea. Then someone, previous MC, mentioned sinking of the ferry was a sabotage not an accident. Someone snooping after MC and most likely they snooped after McNab because they knew his military involvements. They are getting in&out of MC's house too, so they are serious about what are they doing. I think what's going on that front will be huge but I can't even speculate what is going on.

 

[TimHawk]

Still we need to wait and see but my bet, she has some issues coming from childhood or even from birth and that somehow got killed her elder brother then she tried to fill his shoes and went to military for various reasons but not for her guilt. She started over there and caused someone's death, most probable one is that Anastasia girl. So she had to leave military too and now she is doing rinse&repeat thing with MC. If I am somehow correct, then one of the MC&Elspeth ending will involve death within.

Or she was either there when Anastasia was killed and then killed her murderer or she used her ressources to find out who it was and then took the murderer out herself. The blood pattern we see in her fantasies suggests that she didn't use a gun from long range either, so maybe close combat with a knife. Instead of feeling guilty or shocked to have taken a life, she loved every second of it, and now she can't get the memory out of her head.

I'm a sucker for bad endings, so I hope the developer has something really fucked up in store.

 

[Quetzzz]

When I said relationships were a game I was talking about the bigger picture, namely the game of overall mate selection within the sexual marketplace. We started off talking about the Vi and Els interaction where they discuss competing for the MC, and the way Els enjoyed playing the simple game of who gets chosen as a partner, and why other potential mates must therefore be considered "less compelling options". So that's why I said the "game" description was obvious and not meaningful in describing how Els approached that talk. And just as an aside, I do find that particular subject quite fascinating. Applying the concept of game theory to mating at the level of populations can be quite fun and insightful at times.

Right, I get what you mean now. In that context I agree, the "dating game", testing boundaries, etc... That's part of it.
And yes, game theory can (somewhat) be applied to relationships. We all -in our own way- reward behavior we like, and discourage behavior we don't. We just don't always go about it in healthy or thought-out ways. At a very high level view, relationships are skinner boxes. It's also very easy learn some Pavlovian responses during long term relationships. In my experience, those are also the hardest to get rid of afterward.

But yeah, Els does also make a relationship itself a game, which can indeed be frustrating because that kind of intimacy should be an equal partnership. So far it hasn't gotten out of hand and so it feels fine for the most part, to me at least. But I've been through enough "bullshit tests" to abhor that kind of treatment from someone who is supposed to care about me, so I can understand why people don't want to put up with it even for a second. In that context, your criticism of her is indeed warranted. Els needs to grow up a bit and hopefully not turn everything in a close relationship into a "dick measuring" contest. Best case scenario?...this is just the up front "courtship dance", and she mellows a lot once the MC proves his viability. Worst case scenario?...kick her to the curb.

This is something I'm considering as well. It's possible that Els is looking for the guy that can dominate/tame her.

I'm glad I might have smoothed out a few things about her that you interpreted differently. I actually took your criticism in good faith and wondered myself if there was anything about her story and actions that I might have missed. And because of what you and others have revealed I do realize that building a relationship with Els is going to be a lot more complicated and volatile than I had previously imagined. She's still "best girl" for me by a country mile, but I'm definitely more cautious and wary now than I used to be about her intentions.

Wow, it sounds like we both became more moderate – and grew closer – in our attitudes/opinions after discussing things like reasonable people. Huh. Imagine that.

What a novel concept! I'm new here, but I'm really liking this forum. I probably would've posted on reddit otherwise, and I doubt I'd have gotten this quality of interaction there. So, thank you!

Her trust score did indeed change strangely – and significantly in opposing directions! – with the choice of bite or no bite, which is interesting to consider. You know, that reminds me: the way Elspeth's trust and friendship points are getting distributed so far in the game feels a bit bizarre. There was a scene in an earlier chapter where the player needed trust > friendship to get on Els's romance path I think. And since then a lot of the "good" choices for her have increased her trust, while weirdly decreasing her friendship at the same time. I think this might be the dev's way of simulating the idea of "not being friend-zoned" by her. Though why trust always seems to be gained at the expense of friendship is strange. And this is an Els-only thing, since none of the other LIs has a "trust" variable, while all of them except Vi have a "friend" variable. Perhaps the "trust" score exists because Els wants to find people who challenge her and who she can learn and grow from being around? And so that trusted person, whether they end up being a romantic interest or not, cannot be a friend who always tries to say the "nice, friendly thing" to her?

I haven't looked into the points in much detail, my general impression was that 'trust' was used when Els shared something personal. Decreasing friendship is the same as increasing love, though. Since for most other checks it's about love > friendship. Still, it's an interesting observation, and you might very well be right that this is a meta-message from the author.
I think Els' trust variable is directly related to how close she is to sharing her secrets with Valentine. And, piggybacking on your observation, maybe that secret is so big, that it would be impossible to just stay friends once shared.

Hmm. I just loaded up my Els-exclusive playthrough to take a peek at where her variables are right now, and I actually have her friendship score in the negative. It's strange to say it, but I don't think that's a bad thing in terms of building a relationship with her. It could be that it needs to be a minimum for some important future choice/path, but we'll see I guess.

Yeah, that might be the case. Still, very interesting!

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Or she was either there when Anastasia was killed and then killed her murderer or she used her ressources to find out who it was and then took the murderer out herself. The blood pattern we see in her fantasies suggests that she didn't use a gun from long range either, so maybe close combat with a knife. Instead of feeling guilty or shocked to have taken a life, she loved every second of it, and now she can't get the memory out of her head.

I'm a sucker for bad endings, so I hope the developer has something really fucked up in store.

I wouldn't say no to darker turns tbh.

 

[Krytax123]

Intimidated isn't the right word. On his toes, maybe. My MC is very weary of Els' motivations because of all the reasons I've mentioned before. She's a master manipulator.
My issue with her isn't that she challenges Valentine, but that she doesn't follow through when Valentine challenges her.

When does shes manipulate anyone? She's confrontative and pushy (she did this with vi too at the pool) but thats because she wants to force a reaction. Even anger can be relieving. I dont see her manipulate anyone, she pushes people to conclusions but shes very upfront about that.

And that's the crux of my issues with her. Els should've made a choice. In the pool, either she should've kissed Valentine, or break his walls. Not both. She muddied the waters. My impression was that she got off on the confrontation, and her "afraid of a little domestic?" (paraphrasing) in Mallorca reinforces that feeling I have about her.

It both serves the same goal (to make a deeper connection) imo. Sometimes confrontation is nessecary to break walls and can create passion.

Devil's advocate... But is she really seeing through him, or is she seeing things in Valentine that aren't there? If we use some meta reasoning, and consider that Els is 100% right about Valentine... Then no other Love Interest would have a shot, Els would be the perfect partner. Obviously that isn't the case, which means Els is fallible. We don't have to take her on her word. She could be wrong about Valentine.

She at least knows about him having unresolved issues and him not having a single serious relationship since she knows him even tho there are lots of woman interrested. And its safe to assume that she could see at least that he's not really happy.

Considering how nosy she is and how close she and McNab are, its possible to imagine that he dropped some hints at some point too.
The first thing she tells valentine when she meets him for the first time is how McNab is talking about him all the time or something like that.

I don't think he's afraid of commitment. The Centre, training Amrit, becoming a champion... All of those are huge commitments. Valentine himself says it at a certain point, he discovered that women just threw them at him, and he lost himself and made bad choices. All things considered, he just wasn't over Zaida yet, not ready to actually love and be emotionally open with a partner. He's clearly working on that now, though.

I didnt said he's afraid of commitment, i said he's afraid of commitment to a woman and that was obviously true for quite some time before the AVN even started. How long do Valentine and Els do know each other? Something about three years (im not really sure anymore)?

So in short, afraid to love again or afraid to be hurt like that again like you said too.

It's funny, I'm thinking the same, but draw the opposite conclusion. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds to me like you're saying "She wants the perfect partner in Valentine, so she's making sure to help him.". I think I'll like Els a lot more on the friendship path, where she'll help Valentine unconditionally, not because she stands to gain from it. ;-)

She tries to help him the same way no matter if you reject her or not so i dont really got where you get your conlcusion from?

And she stakes her claim in him in front of everyone without having his issues figured out. He told Vi for example way more compared to her and she knows more about is issues in general.

But as i said, she isnt like Vi or Amrit, shes the heir of a super wealthy old family and a prodigy while having at the same time a deep trauma and inferiority complexes. She's not looking for her next boyfriend, shes looking for a man to share her (rather complex) life with and of course she has expectations for the guy. Valentine probably wouldnt date some hobo-girl either.

 

[Quetzzz]

Also everyone missing an IMO important point. Davis' death. We know Davis was not for marrying, characters mentioned a few times that, suddenly getting married with a mysterious lady. Iirc, taking the ferry was her idea. Then someone, previous MC, mentioned sinking of the ferry was a sabotage not an accident. Someone snooping after MC and most likely they snooped after McNab because they knew his military involvements. They are getting in&out of MC's house too, so they are serious about what are they doing. I think what's going on that front will be huge but I can't even speculate what is going on.

Friendly reminder that Davis' body hasn't been found. If he was responsible for the boat sinking, he could've made sure he'd escape alive. Davis says that taking the ferry was her idea, but we have no proof that this is the truth or not.

 

[Quetzzz]

When does shes manipulate anyone? She's confrontative and pushy (she did this with vi too at the pool) but thats because she wants to force a reaction. Even anger can be relieving. I dont see her manipulate anyone, she pushes people to conclusions but shes very upfront about that.

Pushing people's buttons to elicit the reaction you want, is manipulation.

It both serves the same goal (to make a deeper connection) imo. Sometimes confrontation is nessecary to break walls and can create passion.

And that would be self-serving on her part, implying she didn't want to break through Valentine's walls out of the goodness of her heart.

She at least knows about him having unresolved issues and him not having a single serious relationship since she knows him even tho there are lots of woman interrested. And its safe to assume that she could see at least that he's not really happy.

Considering how nosy she is and how close she and McNab are, its possible to imagine that he dropped some hints at some point too.
The first thing she tells valentine when she meets him for the first time is how McNab is talking about him all the time or something like that.

Yep, I agree, that's possible. And she's smart, there's that too. But the questions she asked Vi in Mallorca prove that she has no real clue who the real Valentine is, underneath the trauma. So she might see that he's hiding the trauma, but she can't know if the person underneath is actually the one she imagines as her perfect partner. She thinks she sees the real Valentine when he's fighting, I don't think we can take her word on that.

I didnt said he's afraid of commitment, i said he's afraid of commitment to a woman and that was obviously true for quite some time before the AVN even started. How long do Valentine and Els do know each other? Something about three years (im not really sure anymore)?

"He (very) obviously has comittment issues", but that aside, yeah, we agree here.
12 to 18 months, I think. Though in Chapter 1 (at the bar after the fight) it doesn't seem like Els and Valentine have anything more than a friendly working relationship. They met a few months before the Centre opened its doors.

 

[RoryTate]

Pushing people's buttons to elicit the reaction you want, is manipulation.

I would argue that the word "manipulation" contains a lot of pejorative associations and therefore it requires a much higher threshold to be applied to someone's behaviour. For example, I wouldn't ask someone for the time of day, and then suggest that I had just manipulated them into replying by telling me it was half past noon. That's obviously a huge stretch. An interaction requires much more dishonesty and higher stakes than a simple question, even if it's an emotionally charged one, to be termed "manipulative". And at the mundane level that Els is operating so far, I would call what she is doing more at the stage of simply influencing matters (such as how she kissed the MC in front of the group after they spent the night together). In some cases her behaviour is indeed suspicious while in others it appears to be the opposite and almost openly helpful. But it's all been relatively mundane up to this point. I mean, it's not like Els has been using the Centre as an illegal international kitten-smuggling operation, and Sir Pounce-a-Bunch will turn out to be the key piece of evidence that eventually reveals her dastardly schemes. Now that would definitely meet the standard for manipulation. But all the other stuff she's being doing? I don't see it being that serious yet.

The grey areas right now are the "lies by omission" that she has committed (recording conversations, secretly investigating the MC's past), but without knowing what's at stake there or the full purpose behind these hidden actions, I won't presume to judge them just yet. Her intelligence gathering on the MC might turn out to be a red herring for all we know, and be revealed as just her doing a simple background check on a business partner. We require more accurate and verified information to decide.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Check In 10/04/2023
4 hours ago
Hello lovely people, just throwing a little render your way to thank you for all the support last month. Hit some major milestones and I just wanted to send a little thank you. Yes I can hear the jokes about a wet girl coming out of water.
Another productive week. Added around 8,000 words of script. That puts me a little under 25,000 words. I'm happy with that, puts me slightly ahead of schedule.
I'll be starting posing tomorrow so huzzah. All prep work is now complete, got my custom assets taken care of and all new characters and sets are built and lit.
Nothing majorly exciting beyond that, just going to be getting down into the update muck. I did miss a sneak peak this past weekend so I'll be posting a double dose this upcoming weekend.
Thanks as always for the support and I hope you have a lovely rest of your week.
Sláinte!

 

[cxx]

25k words? that's a lot chit chat.

 

[Sin_Mechero]

I don't remember her saying that she had seen the same amount of "action" as the MC, though I can't recall the specific words, so I could be wrong about that. I think she only intimated that she had "experiences" that were comparable to his, or something like that. And I think she does have a valid point there. There is an important difference in the feeling of culpability for commanders, intelligence personnel, etc, who have to make decisions that cause the deaths of allies and friends, whereas a soldier only deals mostly with their responsibility for killing other enemy soldiers. Living daily with the knowledge that people you care about will die because of what you tell them to do, and inevitably making mistakes that cause large numbers of unneeded deaths among those who trusted you?...I can see that weighing quite heavily on someone's conscience, as compared to the simple "kill or be killed" of ground combat, where the ethical questions are far more black and white.

Spoiler: Speculation about Elspeth's secret

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Sounds like a good theory to me. But the part where she feels guilty doesn't fit, because Zaina didn't die in combat. The operation was a success. She was killed by Davis after the operation, to avoid leaving loose ends.
I have the feeling that Els recommended some operation where it went wrong or something, losing her friend among them. The Els thing seems to happen after all that, since it's only been a year since she left the service.

 

[KhamulTG81]

I WANT MORE INES CONTENT... seriously

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I WANT MORE INES CONTENT... seriously

 

[seden]

Same here, will need to see what the protect is about.
This said more content fitting the story is welcome anyway.
Tbs.