VN Ren'Py STWA: Unbroken [Pt. 7] [STWAdev]

[RoryTate]

He also says that Elspeth was always his favourite, that his son was not a good person, and that Elspeth always idolized her brother. All three of those things contradict what Elspeth was telling Viridiana during their first conversation. The same conversation where she motions you to eavesdrop on them and then tells Viridiana "I'll tell you a secret just between us girls."

So at least one of them is lying. Most likely Elspeth, since she's got an established history of it.

These conversations fit together fine for me without anyone having to be dishonest in the serious way you are suggesting. There is the relatively minor matter of Els hiding the side of herself that hated her brother from her Father, but that is only a small white lie to maintain family cohesion. I think Els was honest to Vi about both loving and hating her brother, and she very deliberately noted that her brother was not just the sum of all of his bad actions in her mind (just like Davis should not be those things alone to Vi either). So she agreed with her Dad's assessment that her brother "was not a good person". She just went further and said that her brother was more than just those horrible mistakes to her. Her Father only witnessed her mourning the loss of her sibling, because she kept her anger at her brother in check when he passed to not destroy her Dad's memory of a loving, close knit family. And if we believe what she said to Vi, her own heart was indeed torn between experiencing the two conflicting emotions after he died, which would certainly be a difficult thing to manage.

If you try to avoid eavesdropping on Elspeth's first conversation with Viridiana, she will motion you back because she wants you to see how smart and helpful she is.

I think it fits better that she did this because she wants you to understand how much trouble Vi is having in that moment with reconciling her contradictory emotions. Els's primary goal in that conversation seems to be trying to help Vi accept and move on from her loss. And Els's later actions match with this interpretation as well, in how she tell the MC that Vi really needs his support right now, and that she even needs a hug, when Els leaves the two of them alone.

Yes, she does throw in a secretive "I think very highly of him too" comment to entice the MC. But that small bit of seduction does not take away from her attempts to support Vi. Just like Els's brother is more than his selfishness and crimes, and Davis is not just his uncaring treatment of Vi and others' lives, so too is Els herself a complicated mix of behaviours: her seemingly selfish need to have the MC's attention and win him like some vain trophy, alongside what I see as a genuine and laudable desire to help others, combined with a strong work ethic and a passion for self-improvement and challenging oneself. She has many great traits that make her a fun – albeit frustrating at times – character to enjoy in the story.

 

[Alfred the Fallen]

There is the relatively minor matter of Els hiding the side of herself that hated her brother from her Father, but that is only a small white lie to maintain family cohesion.

So you think she was lying to her father? I was under the impression that she was lying to Viridiana and made up the story about hating her brother because she wanted to seem relatable to her. Either way, going from hating someone to idolizing someone is a pretty big swing. Perhaps it could be explained away later if she initially idolized him and then later hated him after he got worse over time.

Yes, she does throw in a secretive "I think very highly of him too" comment to entice the MC. But that small bit of seduction does not take away from her attempts to support Vi.

My main objection there was not with her flirting with the main character, but rather with her assuring Viridiana that what they were saying was between the two of them when it very clearly wasn't. Elspeth is lying to Viri and that shows a level of disrespect for her, and makes her attempts to help her seem insincere. This then combines with her flirting with the main character to strongly suggest that she isn't trying to support Vi, but rather is using her as a way to get to the main character.

 

[RoryTate]

I also suspect Davis' supposed death is a red herring. But what gave you the impression that Els is suspicious?

Why do I think Els has suspicions that Davis may be alive? Well, that is not a simple question to answer. But to try and keep it short, her deliberate use of the word "presumably" when she speaks of Davis's death is a clear hint of this. If she thought Davis was dead, she would just say: "My brother is gone too" or something like that. Her response to Vi would be simple. Instead she says: "[He's]...presumably in the same place as yours". That's too complex of wording to be taken at face value.

I'll put the longer version of my answer in a spoiler tag, because there are a shit-ton of thoughts I had about this conundrum over the course of my replay, and because I also go into considerations about "meta" narrative stuff, which I know can be annoying to read.

Spoiler: Speculation about what Els knows

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[RoryTate]

Perhaps it could be explained away later if she initially idolized him and then later hated him after he got worse over time.

I do believe this is the case. From my reading, Els truly cared about her brother, and only later grew to hate him. After he is gone, we see Els taking care of his motorbike, which I believe demonstrates her fondness for him, since maintaining it is a way of honouring his memory. She also shoulders the family responsibility of serving the crown in his stead, since her brother – as the first-born son – failed so publicly at that duty. We can see this act of signing up for military duty as Els's attempt to remove the dishonour that he brought on the Adair name, and not letting his public failing continue to stain his memory. And I suspect her military service needed to be exemplary not for her own ego's sake (though she does have one), but just so no one would ever possibly remember his failure. I honestly get the feeling Els had her own dreams and ambitions that she is now resentful over having to give up because of her brother and her family. On my replay, I took special note of the way she downplays the idea that she could have been an Olympian, which McNab told the MC was something she used to be quite proud of telling people. Now his reminder of this seems to upset her, which reveals a lot about her I think.

Of course, I could be wrong, but these are my observations about the story thus far. Like I've said, we'll have to see what gets revealed later on to fully judge.

 

[Ragnar]

I think you're raising some good food for thoughs about Els. Imo she likes the MC but due to her own past she has some kind of ptsd too. In her case she acts like if she was still at war, super controlling and paranoid. Digging into the MC past while she's so secretive about her own, that's all kinds of fucked up thing to do to your loved ones.

 

[Walter Victor]

A couple of teasers from the developer at Patreon:

Spoiler: Accompanying Images

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Sneak Peek 10/08/2023

Hot off the GPU, literally just made, here comes our first renders of the update. A glimpse of happier times, and a glimpse of some old friends. When you get old like me those fun nights just chilling with your friends in the mountains get more and more nostalgic every day. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go replace the batteries in my hearing aide.

Anyway that's it today. Next Sunday we'll be having an art stream. Spoilers will abound.

 

[cxx]

flashbacks again.

 

[RoryTate]

Digging into the MC past while she's so secretive about her own, that's all kinds of fucked up thing to do to your loved ones.

It is indeed a major betrayal of trust, if Els is using her security clearance and data access as a sort of quasi-Facebook to get juicy inside info on the MC's private interests and affairs. However, if she suspects that there is something more sinister happening, then her intentions could turn out to be less selfish than it might appear at first glance. My guess is that it's the latter, but we'll have to be patient and see what happens next.

Part of my wait-and-see attitude here is also a result of the MC's chill response to learning about the activity happening around his various records. IIRC, he just thanked Alina for the heads up, and asked her to let him know if she learned anything else. Nothing more. He didn't seem at all bothered by what people might find there, likely because he is already familiar with dealing with his negative public perception as a philanderer, so he isn't at all concerned with what people might think of him because of his military service or his brushes with law enforcement. As a result, that invasion of privacy means less to me than it probably would otherwise.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Is she Chris from the Author?

 

[TimHawk]

It is indeed a major betrayal of trust, if Els is using her security clearance and data access as a sort of quasi-Facebook to get juicy inside info on the MC's private interests and affairs. However, if she suspects that there is something more sinister happening, then her intentions could turn out to be less selfish than it might appear at first glance. My guess is that it's the latter, but we'll have to be patient and see what happens next.

Part of my wait-and-see attitude here is also a result of the MC's chill response to learning about the activity happening around his various records. IIRC, he just thanked Alina for the heads up, and asked her to let him know if she learned anything else. Nothing more. He didn't seem at all bothered by what people might find there, likely because he is already familiar with dealing with his negative public perception as a philanderer, so he isn't at all concerned with what people might think of him because of his military service or his brushes with law enforcement. As a result, that invasion of privacy means less to me than it probably would otherwise.

Els used her contacts within the british military intelligence community to have them access the MC's military records, in the hope of finding out what trauma he has suffered. The fact that it triggered an CIA response should be proof enough, that Els didn't go for any public data or files, but military, so she can't have had any altruistic concerns. She asked the MC, he didn't tell her, so she did it behind his back. Major betrayel of trust seems appropiate, no if's needed.

The reason the MC isn't concerned is because he knows that there is no way to get the information she is after that way, even without having a friend in the CIA. People would find either nothing or something that is entirely fabricated other than basic data, like the MC's birthday, which Els suddenly knows.

People, even friends, don't get to decide what Els knows or doesn't know, only she does. And I completely agree with what was said before, it's also the only reason why she interacts with Vi, she's just another source of information.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

Is she Chris from the Author?

Is she? You're going to make me replay the game to find out, aren't you? What did I ever do to you for this type of treatment?

 

[Ragnar]

It is indeed a major betrayal of trust, if Els is using her security clearance and data access as a sort of quasi-Facebook to get juicy inside info on the MC's private interests and affairs. However, if she suspects that there is something more sinister happening, then her intentions could turn out to be less selfish than it might appear at first glance. My guess is that it's the latter, but we'll have to be patient and see what happens next.

Part of my wait-and-see attitude here is also a result of the MC's chill response to learning about the activity happening around his various records. IIRC, he just thanked Alina for the heads up, and asked her to let him know if she learned anything else. Nothing more. He didn't seem at all bothered by what people might find there, likely because he is already familiar with dealing with his negative public perception as a philanderer, so he isn't at all concerned with what people might think of him because of his military service or his brushes with law enforcement. As a result, that invasion of privacy means less to me than it probably would otherwise.

I think she wants to know what happened to the MC but he doesn't want to talk about his past so she has gone behind his back to dig. It's double fucked up because she doesn't want anyone snooping into her things either, even when the MC asks heart to heart she gives very few details about herself.

 

[RoryTate]

In Els' flashback her parents talk about her pacifism before she enlisted.

I looked at her flashback scene where she overhears her parents talking about who would be the heir to replace her brother. Her older sister (Danielle) is said to be too old, plus she can't enlist when she has a child on the way. Her other brother is ruled out by her Mom with: "Andrew is a kind, sweet boy. He'd suffer in service to the Crown.". When Els's name comes up, all her Dad says is: "It's a bad idea. Anybody would be better than her." Is this the scene you're referring to? If so, I don't really see them discussing her pacifism anywhere.

 

[Quetzzz]

Is this the scene you're referring to? If so, I don't really see them discussing her pacifism anywhere.

It is. Seems I'm misremembering, or drew a conclusion with what the father said.

 

[crowbar214]

My pet theory about Elspeth is she was the intelligence mastermind behind the operation Valentine hates Davis for.

 

[misfolk]

Is she Chris from the Author?

Is she sitting on the Author's lap?

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Is she sitting on the Author's lap?

No but as far as we know Davis, Cal, Brent and Chris were extremely close it won't be far fetched.

 

[The Offbeat]

Some people seem to believe Davis killed Zaina personally, and I mean. While possible. I think it's more likely a case of withheld support, Maybe her team didn't get extracted in time. Or a bomb strike called in danger close to her location. I mean if Davis had done it with clear intent. I don't think MC would have even entertained the thought of meeting him ever again. Or that they'd have been able to stop him from trying to kill Davis.. Just a random thought I had browing through some old responses here.

 

[RoryTate]

Some people seem to believe Davis killed Zaina personally, and I mean. While possible. I think it's more likely a case of withheld support, Maybe her team didn't get extracted in time. Or a bomb strike called in danger close to her location. I mean if Davis had done it with clear intent. I don't think MC would have even entertained the thought of meeting him ever again. Or that they'd have been able to stop him from trying to kill Davis.. Just a random thought I had browing through some old responses here.

That's an excellent point. Davis's involvement is more likely to be in an indirect – but still deliberate – manner, like the possibilities you suggested. Or he could have given Zaina bad information that led her into an ambush (and then refused to risk everyone's life to help "local forces"). Or leaked information about her position to the enemy. Or various types of "friendly fire" situations (this is estimated to cause more than 10% of deaths in war IIRC). If he straight up shot her in cold blood after they achieved their mission objectives it's hard to see the MC letting him live, and if that were the case the MC most certainly wouldn't agree to meet with Davis later when he drops by to visit. So it's likely to be something where Davis has some defense for his actions, or the MC has at least some reasonable uncertainty about Davis's direct culpability for what went down.

 

[RoryTate]

My pet theory about Elspeth is she was the intelligence mastermind behind the operation Valentine hates Davis for.

It seems that there are a number of readers (myself included) who have arrived independently at this suspicion, or at least a similar conjecture about Els. McNab's involvement (and the participation of British intelligence by proxy) on that day certainly does give a lot of credence to this idea. If it is true, then Els could be trying so hard to win the MC's heart because it is a sort of selfish trophy that represents a mix of redemption, forgiveness, and peace (her singular desire) to her. That would indeed explain a lot of little mysteries that have popped up along the way.

However, it doesn't quite fit with other story events right now (Els's sudden deep dive into the MC's past being the main one). But this hypothesis shouldn't be tossed aside just yet, because those discordant events themselves are also unclear as to the motivations behind them, so we simply don't have enough information at this point in the story to rule enough out and settle on just one explanation.