VN Ren'Py STWA: Unbroken [Pt. 7] [STWAdev]

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RoryTate

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May 15, 2018
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Vi talks about how MC was back in the day, then Els opens up, which I admit is something (though no info directly related to MC)
Els doesn't give any info directly related to the MC because Vi only asks why Els cares so much about the MC in this particular "info for info" exchange. So Els's response is limited to explaining her own motivations, simply because Vi chooses to use her question in a somewhat unexpected way. And that leads to the two split paths. If Els and the MC have had the pool heart-to-heart, Els explains that she cares for the MC because she is in love with him ("He interests me because he would be a partner in every sense of the word."). If they haven't had that talk, then Els reveals a bit about a previously unknown tragedy/loss of someone she cared about (who might be her brother, or Anastasia, or someone else).

What fascinates me here is that Vi really sticks to her guns about believing that she is the one who knows the MC best. She doesn't use this golden opportunity to get information to ask about the MC, and instead she simply wants to gauge what she's up against with Els. That's very consistent characterization there. Of course, one might also interpret this as Vi not wanting to know more about the MC, lest it ruin her pristine image of him and make her doubt herself.
 
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Quetzzz

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What fascinates me here is that Vi really sticks to her guns about believing that she is the one who knows the MC best. She doesn't use this golden opportunity to get information to ask about the MC, and instead she simply wants to gauge what she's up against with Els.
That's an interesting way to interpret it, I hadn't considered that. I guess this is a result of your habit to look at "what didn't she do?". :D
At this point, Vi knows that her brother has done something that hurt Valentine, and that Valentine is capable of extreme acts of violence (when it's warranted). If you promised to tell her about it, she'll ask about what happened later. For me, her concern comes from a place of love and care. I also love this reversal of the roles, where Vi is taking initiative to be there for Valentine, while she's always been the one in need.
 

Rule97

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May 2, 2018
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Man, I hate how good the writing in this game is, instead of just sleeping with every female that walks and breathes, I'm really resisting the impulse to like, sleep or do anything sexual with Amrit because I dunno, it doesn't vibe well, with how their backstory has been till this point.

(to be clear, I'm not critizing anyone who made the choice and thinks MC x Amrit works, I'm just saying, it doesn't work for me, and that works in enhancing the game and I'm fighting my own impulses.)
 
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May 30, 2022
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She isn't reliving some trauma when we see her covered in blood, she is fantasizing, drawn back to the memory of violence.
Dang, never thought of it that way. Thanks for these reads, yall. Makes me realize I overlooked a lotta shit out of laziness. Link me to some more popular theories, like ones that are more or less probably true. Seems like I have been out of the loop lol.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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Now this information could make Kana less trustworthy of any commitments to her that the MC makes, so while the comment likely makes Kana more interested in having sex with him, I think it does reasonably set up some obstacles to Kana and the MC forming a long-term bond.
I'd like to chime in here, even if we think that your way when you combine her saying you can fuck around but you'll come to me (not the exact words but same meaning) can't we say she was trying to demote Kana to side piece rather than LI?

I interpret this as Els giving Vi some very helpful and useful advice on how to understand and properly pursue the MC.
I interpret this whole scene as a declaration of war to the most likely candidate that MC can feel things. Iirc, kitchen kiss scene was after this scene so I saw that as first blood draw from Elspeth. I feel like Elspeth sees these whole thing as a battle ground.

Els pushes Vi to fight for what she wants, and Vi responds by doing exactly that in their picnic discussion. And later that day Vi decides she's ready to go all the way with the MC.
It's interesting to see how people look at something, see completely different things. Vi was heading there steadily, she came onto MC by herself on Christmas, also at the lake too. All I see from that conversation is Elspeth taunting Vi. I believe only Elspeth action further pushed Vi, if you choose that, was the kiss. I am not saying she did because of it but she became more sure about it.


I see Elspeth snaky, up to no good person with shady background. So I see every action of her in that sense and I can find hints about that almost every scene of her. There is only one scene bugs me which is after first fight of MC, there was a brief scene that shows Elspeth watched the fight and she looked genuinely disturbed. If what I see in Elspeth accurate, she should have been excited, pleased and even relieved not disturbed. She was alone she should not have act according to her passivist facade, so that scene should have shown Elspeth unfiltered. So only explanation I can come up with is that scene was fairly early in game and dev used that as red herring, make us believe she is a pacifist so when revealed she is not impact would be bigger. Sorta weak explanation I think. :unsure:
 

RoryTate

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There is only one scene bugs me which is after first fight of MC, there was a brief scene that shows Elspeth watched the fight and she looked genuinely disturbed. If what I see in Elspeth accurate, she should have been excited, pleased and even relieved not disturbed.
It can be both of these things: Els is fascinated and excited by violence, but after her experiences in the military those strong emotions have now become associated with equally intense feelings of regret and shame. So she no longer has a safe way of expressing them, and they greatly disturb her. Thus she has created this façade of "pacifism" to help her avoid any situation where those baser instincts arise. Except with the MC it seems, who may allow her to understand those violent tendencies in a controlled environment, or whom she has made into a kind of "redemptive avatar" to be saved (and thereby atone for her own sins), or something else entirely.

I admit these are just my own speculations about Els's motivations, and there's a lot we don't know about her at this point in the story. I mean, if only we had a scene of a genuinely conflicted Els admitting that she both loves and hates her brother (as she seems to both love and hate violence), and recognizing this same issue in a suffering Vi to help her, thereby allowing Vi and the MC to talk about this kind of dark emotional complexity. If only we could point to some reasonable establishment of this overarching theme that "love and hate are often two sides of the same coin" previously in the story. ;)

I see Elspeth snaky, up to no good person with shady background. So I see every action of her in that sense and I can find hints about that almost every scene of her.
As I said before, if there is nothing a person can theoretically do that isn't interpreted negatively, then the actual problem lies elsewhere.

Vi was heading there steadily, she came onto MC by herself on Christmas, also at the lake too.
Yes, there are a lot of indicators that Vi would have gotten there without Els's help. So my suggestion that Els was the main reason Vi confessed is one I have definitely softened on as I consider it further. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Els did challenge Vi to be more confident, and complimented her when she demonstrated that courage ("Much better."). Even if that didn't do much for Vi's belief in herself, it also didn't completely destroy her self-confidence in a "My, what beautiful scars you have" kind of way, which Els could have just as easily done, and is what a "snaky, up to no good person with shady background" character would have done to Vi when getting her alone.

I interpret this whole scene as a declaration of war to the most likely candidate that MC can feel things. Iirc, kitchen kiss scene was after this scene so I saw that as first blood draw from Elspeth.
The kitchen kiss only happens if the MC sleeps with Els, so it makes sense they would be affectionate with each other the next morning. If they aren't together, Els doesn't declare war in this or any other way. And that is significant, because even just being "friendly" with him by patting him on the back in front of the group would have social repercussions. Indeed, Vi saying that she and the MC were going on a "picnic" to bond that morning was her own similar declaration to all the other women. My point is that these things are not overly remarkable. In fact, here's a strange recollection: I once had a co-worker who got into a fun conversation at a social gathering with an old female friend he hadn't seen in a while, where the two of them talked passionately at length about their shared musical interests, and he told us that his fiancé – who had been there listening – later that night threw her engagement ring at him when they were back home because this devastated her (now this is a bit extreme, and his now ex-fiancé obviously had other mental issues and perhaps previous relationship concerns, but I'm relaying this unfortunate example to make a point about how even seemingly unremarkable interactions between people can be perceived when it comes to the cutthroat world of human dating).

I admit that Els did lay it on quite thick in the "kitchen kiss" scene (complimenting the MC's performance in bed, serving him coffee before partaking herself), but it was interesting to me how she chose to make these "social statements" in a very direct way, without any hidden agenda. And she didn't bat an eye at Vi's desire to "bond" with the MC on their picnic trip, nor do I expect her to raise it as a concern in the future or forbid the MC from seeing Vi in any way. IMO Els is fighting fairly for the MC's love and affection, as is her right, and not acting in an immoral manner (of course her motives behind the "information gathering" are the big question here, but those are not certain, so that reveal will be an important deciding factor in how she is judged).

At this point, Vi knows that her brother has done something that hurt Valentine, and that Valentine is capable of extreme acts of violence (when it's warranted). If you promised to tell her about it, she'll ask about what happened later. For me, her concern comes from a place of love and care. I also love this reversal of the roles, where Vi is taking initiative to be there for Valentine, while she's always been the one in need.
There are indeed a lot of positives that happen in that picnic discussion. Vi knows that the MC trusts her with this big secret he has been keeping. And the MC is relieved that he is not hiding important things from Vi, and that he can rely on her in some ways (though there's an important caveat here, which I will explain later). So the two really do grow closer in a real sense after this heart-to-heart, and there is now a strength in their relationship that goes both ways, instead of the MC just being Vi's "knight in shining armour".

My concern is that role-playing as the MC in that scene left me feeling a bit worse off than when I entered it. I became worried about Vi, because I didn't want to make her hate her brother more. But most importantly, I didn't want her to feel responsible for his actions, since he's her close family member (indeed, the MC even responds with "You didn't do it" after Vi's first words after hearing the story are "I'm sorry", which honestly broke my heart to hear from her...this is why I have a caveat about her taking on a reliable and supportive role towards the MC, since she reacted in the exact distraught and conflicted way I was worried she would). I kind of imagine the MC is feeling a bit more stressed after sharing this information with Vi, and this discussion might not be quite as therapeutic as you suggest. I do hope she is mature enough to deal with the likely feelings of guilt for the extreme harm her brother caused, but it's got to be a bitter reality for anyone to have to deal with when someone they are close to acts in such a horrible way. Especially when they hurt another person that you care about. In that sense, I really do understand why it took so long for the MC to talk about it with her.
 
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TimHawk

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I see Elspeth snaky, up to no good person with shady background. So I see every action of her in that sense and I can find hints about that almost every scene of her. There is only one scene bugs me which is after first fight of MC, there was a brief scene that shows Elspeth watched the fight and she looked genuinely disturbed. If what I see in Elspeth accurate, she should have been excited, pleased and even relieved not disturbed. She was alone she should not have act according to her passivist facade, so that scene should have shown Elspeth unfiltered. So only explanation I can come up with is that scene was fairly early in game and dev used that as red herring, make us believe she is a pacifist so when revealed she is not impact would be bigger. Sorta weak explanation I think. :unsure:
Without even trying to make sense of it, the scene reminded me of a drug addict who got clean, and then walked past the same spot where he usually met his dealer and then everything comes back to him and he instantly regrets going there again.

To me she didn't look disturbed, she looked defeated, like she was saying "Damn, I still can't shake what seeing violence does to me", hence she calls herself "stupid".

The developer set up another good chance for us to check if Els has any real interesst in the MC or if she just sees him as her lifeboat, when she suggested the psychiatrist to the MC.

If she will try to use him to get information about the MC, as to what he has done or has happened to him during his deployment, then it'll be another huge pointer as to her true intentions. Im really curious how that will play out.

Also have you checked the scenes where Els is covered in blood ? Every single time the developer found it important enough to have blood run into or cover her mouth, I wonder if that's symbolic, like she developed a "taste for blood" or just a coincidence. Especially if you consider it together with the "bite during the kiss" scene, it's really intruiging.

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Oct 10, 2022
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It can be both of these things: Els is fascinated and excited by violence, but after her experiences in the military those strong emotions have now become associated with equally intense feelings of regret and shame. So she no longer has a safe way of expressing them, and they greatly disturb her. Thus she has created this façade of "pacifism" to help her avoid any situation where those baser instincts arise. Except with the MC it seems, who may allow her to understand those violent tendencies in a controlled environment, or whom she has made into a kind of "redemptive avatar" to be saved (and thereby atone for her own sins), or something else entirely.
I really like this explanation, it probably is true.

Without even trying to make sense of it, the scene reminded me of a drug addict who got clean, and then walked past the same spot where he usually met his dealer and then everything comes back to him and he instantly regrets going there again.

To me she didn't look disturbed, she looked defeated, like she was saying "Damn, I still can't shake what seeing violence does to me", hence she calls herself "stupid".
I still think she looked disturbed, maybe a little bit defeated but disturbed was the main focus. So I feel like Rory's explanation fits better.

Els admitting that she both loves and hates her brother
Tbh, I didn't believe single word of that. If it turns out she is unable to have those emotions won't be surprising for me.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that Els did challenge Vi to be more confident, and complimented her when she demonstrated that courage ("Much better.").
I think if you combine much better with get over quote, it's more like a taunt rather than encouragement. It's almost like waiting the beaten, lying on the ground opponent to get up, so you can beat him down again.

The kitchen kiss only happens if the MC sleeps with Els, so it makes sense they would be affectionate with each other the next morning.
Well, Elspeth is good at choosing the fights and if they did not sleep together, even she used every trick to reach there, there was no need to go total war against everyone. When they slept together, in a way MC gave her ammo to fight and she have better hand at that point, so she marked her territory and showed she was ready to defend it. That alone was not a negative thing IMO, being fighter is not a bad trait but her overall attitude towards MC and others is nothing short of toxic.

I don't think she threatened Katie in any way but overall attitude could have indicated fight to Katie, so she might have said what she said to avoid a fight with Elspeth.

All in all, I do agree there are a lot of things we do not know about Elspeth and I think she have multilayered personality, so assesing her as a black&white would be mistake. Still though, I believe she has darker tone of grey.
 

Quetzzz

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Sep 29, 2023
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And she didn't bat an eye at Vi's desire to "bond" with the MC on their picnic trip, nor do I expect her to raise it as a concern in the future or forbid the MC from seeing Vi in any way.
I still think there's an aspect of hubris to Els' whole personality. It might even be earned, she is a very formidable woman.

My concern is that role-playing as the MC in that scene left me feeling a bit worse off than when I entered it. I became worried about Vi, because I didn't want to make her hate her brother more.
The first time I went through this scene, I fucked up and decided not to tell her. After a break, to think things over, I rolled back and told her. I didn't like that Vi shared personal info with Els on the beach, but Valentine doesn't know this. I'm a very private person, and I projected myself too much on Valentine. From an RP perspective I didn't want to tell her, for the reasons you said, but eventually decided to trust her to be mature enough to handle it.

"I'm sorry"
I think this part got lost in translation for me. I never understood this about the English language. To me, "I'm sorry" is such a cop-out statement that it's almost expected, specially when someone is overwhelmed and doesn't know what to say. I also dislike the statement because it shifts focus. I tell someone about something horrible, they reply with "I'm sorry", do I now have to reassure them after opening up?

Thinking about it, didn't Davis show up to blame the MC for turning his sister against him? I've been playing a bunch of other games, and the details are getting foggy. (I should probably just grep all the dialog from the files and keep it as a reference.)

I do hope she is mature enough to deal with the likely feelings of guilt for the extreme harm her brother caused, but it's got to be a bitter reality for anyone to have to deal with when someone they are close to acts in such a horrible way.
More so, because Vi has been entirely sheltered from the horrible realities of war and the kind of violence that comes with it. I don't think she could've even imagined something like that happening. I think my Valentine felt less conflicted after the talk than yours, hoping that Vi could find some strength. Whatever happened to Vi, it's really nothing compared to what Valentine faced during his service. The biggest difference between the two, is that Valentine never considered himself a victim.
 

RoryTate

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May 15, 2018
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Tbh, I didn't believe single word of that. If it turns out she is unable to have those emotions won't be surprising for me.
It might be the case that Els doesn't care at all for her brother, but IMO that's quite unlikely. There are a number of things the MC has been shown that lead straight to the conclusion that she genuinely loves him. Her Father told the MC that Els idolized her brother. She abandoned her dreams and joined the military to try and protect her brother's memory, and to erase his failure from the eyes of the world. She maintains and works on her brother's prized motorbike, which is another way to try and honour his memory. She keeps a picture of her brother where she can see it, alongside pictures of her best friend McNab and the MC.

Each of these on their own might be a red herring. Perhaps she pulled the wool over her Father's eyes for decades ever since she was a young girl. Perhaps she secretly stares at the picture of her brother in hatred. But when they are all taken together it seems unlikely that she doesn't genuinely care for him. It would be a rather intricate house of cards she has built otherwise, and with no benefit to herself that I can imagine if it was all a lie.

All in all, I do agree there are a lot of things we do not know about Elspeth and I think she have multilayered personality, so assesing her as a black&white would be mistake. Still though, I believe she has darker tone of grey.
Fair enough. I can't disagree with that belief, since we don't have the full picture yet. I do have a different opinion of Els, in that I see her as an imperfect but genuinely caring person, but I'm also trying to keep an open mind about what may come.

The first time I went through this scene, I fucked up and decided not to tell her. After a break, to think things over, I rolled back and told her. I didn't like that Vi shared personal info with Els on the beach, but Valentine doesn't know this. I'm a very private person, and I projected myself too much on Valentine. From an RP perspective I didn't want to tell her, for the reasons you said, but eventually decided to trust her to be mature enough to handle it.
Yeah, I think I'm with you on the "private lives should not be made public" thing. I realized early on though that Valentine as a character is much more easygoing about his private affairs, especially when he learned about the deep dive into his personal info and reacted with nonchalance: "That's not uncommon". He only showed interest when Alina told him it wasn't a reporter digging on him this time. He seems quite used to being a famous figure whose private life is fodder for tabloids, so I had to keep that in mind when trying to put myself in his shoes.

I think this part got lost in translation for me. I never understood this about the English language. To me, "I'm sorry" is such a cop-out statement that it's almost expected, specially when someone is overwhelmed and doesn't know what to say. I also dislike the statement because it shifts focus. I tell someone about something horrible, they reply with "I'm sorry", do I now have to reassure them after opening up?
"I'm sorry" is indeed a way to shift focus and ask for reassurance in return, which is why I thought Vi didn't really do much to be there for the MC in that moment, and instead he was once again forced to be strong and protect her from her own potential guilt about her brother's actions. She really does need to act more mature and actually be an equal partner if they ever try to build a romantic relationship, because the MC is going to need the full support of others at some point in his life.
 

RoryTate

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Also have you checked the scenes where Els is covered in blood ? Every single time the developer found it important enough to have blood run into or cover her mouth, I wonder if that's symbolic, like she developed a "taste for blood" or just a coincidence. Especially if you consider it together with the "bite during the kiss" scene, it's really intruiging.
This interesting insight about showing a "taste for blood" in a visual way, combined with the previous post of Els as a "vampire hunter", really has my imagination going off in strange directions all of a sudden. :LOL:
 

Quetzzz

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Yeah, I think I'm with you on the "private lives should not be made public" thing. I realized early on though that Valentine as a character is much more easygoing about his private affairs, especially when he learned about the deep dive into his personal info and reacted with nonchalance: "That's not uncommon"
Yeah, that's when it dawned on me as well, also the Face answers to the interview are very open and honest. That said, I think Valentine appreciates it more when people ask him directly, instead of going behind his back. But that's more about respect and being straight-forward, and less about privacy.
The way Valentine is honest when asked a direct question, is one of the reasons why I think he doesn't necessarily need therapy.

She really does need to act more mature and actually be an equal partner if they ever try to build a romantic relationship, because the MC is going to need the full support of others at some point in his life.
Yeah. I turned down Vi's first attempt at seduction, then (after the picnic?) I kissed her but didn't sleep with her, exactly for this reason. So far, my Valentine has only slept with Kana. I also think it was too easy to get on the love path with Vi. Most of her choices came down to "be compassionate" or "man up" (very broadly speaking). To me, Valentine acted like a good and compassionate friend, and Vi needed to convince him that it's not just puppy love. At the picnic she did, but now my Valentine needs to process that.
 

RoryTate

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I also think it was too easy to get on the love path with Vi.
Agreed. I would even go so far as to say it feels wrong to choose most of the "family score"-increasing options when dealing with Vi. Most of those specific responses come across to me as too distant, or they feel uncompassionate after the way her whole world has been upended, and so I always seem to find myself with Vi unfortunately being set up for a broken heart in every playthrough that is focused on a LI other than her.
 
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MF_DOOM

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Sneak Peek 10/22/2023

This week we have just a few little moments, nothing super secret, or is it?
But obviously most important is the long awaited turn of SPB, the most beloved character in the whole series.
We'll have a dev journal next weekend. Just have to decide on what subject, hope you all have a lovely upcoming week.



 

MF_DOOM

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Mar 1, 2023
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Check In 10/25/2023

Keeping it quick today.
Word count is approaching 60,000 or so, I have about half of one final scene to finish up and the first draft will be finished.
Sitting at an even 300 renders all finished up, no major roadblocks here. Hopefully it stays that way.
Nothing else really to talk about. I'll be finishing up customs and special renders over the next few days and getting myself as prepped as possible for the heavy rendering to start with the draft being completed.
Thanks as always for the support and I hope you have a lovely rest of your week
Sláinte!
 

Walter Victor

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Dec 27, 2017
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Latest progress report from the developer at Patreon:


Check In 10/25/2023

Keeping it quick today.

Word count is approaching 60,000 or so, I have about half of one final scene to finish up and the first draft will be finished.

Sitting at an even 300 renders all finished up, no major roadblocks here. Hopefully it stays that way.

Nothing else really to talk about. I'll be finishing up customs and special renders over the next few days and getting myself as prepped as possible for the heavy rendering to start with the draft being completed.

Thanks as always for the support and I hope you have a lovely rest of your week

Sláinte!
 

MF_DOOM

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Mar 1, 2023
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Check In 11/03/2023

Boy I sure do hate watching the months zip by, the horrifying reminder of times past. I feel old as sin watching it, soon I'll be cashing social security and eating at the same booth in my local country diner having my same early bird special. Now on that cheery note let's get some updating in.
First draft is finished up, sitting around 65,000 or so words. Now it's time to do some trimming and refining as usual, see what needs to be kept and what can go, the usual stuff. I also have one scene I might completely redo, I was hit my a bolt of inspiration this morning and if I get the scene out that I'm feeling I think it will be way better and more fun than the original one I wrote.
Renders are about 497 rendered of the 511 posed. A decent enough clip and I haven't hit any major snags in terms of scenes taking longer than average so far. Fingers crossed as always it stays that way.
That's about everything for Unbroken at the moment, but I've had quite a few questions in Discord this week about The Author and Steam and I promised I would say something in the weekly update so I'm going to take a moment and just update everybody at once.
The Author: Definitive Edition has a little more work to be done before release mostly back end stuff. UI work needs to be finished and I'm still waiting on the custom music that I commissioned. I'm hoping to get the Steam page up in the next few weeks, if I manage to find the time. I'd say early next year for a release is the best bet, just depending on if Unbroken takes up more time than usual. Actually on the same note I should chime in with something else, yes Unbroken will be coming to Steam as well, but not until after the Author, for continuity purposes.
Okay I think that answers every question I've been asked recently, so I'll end it here.
Thanks as always for the support and I hope you have a lovely and safe weekend.
Sláinte!
 
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