IG88a

Newbie
Oct 9, 2019
84
367
Mantics with the most agressive genitalia Steam allows fucking girls in every hole is just Lewdness he says, the rich tactical gameplay of the two stripped down 24hr gamejam versions of Xcom and shmup are the true draw of subverse he says, between the complete failure of his ability to type out of...

While still somehow thinking it's defensible that the higher ups of FOW actively know about their "overzealous" mods managing their community forums such as steam. Yet again at best it's incompetence not malice at attempting a cross platform media presence, but they still know. Not the best look, or the best thing to defend "bob."
 

Kerry9

New Member
Jul 23, 2019
10
21
There is no NTR because there is no love to begin with, it's literally a orgy. There's no cheating, because there are no gf or bf, there are literally sex machines , penis shaped ships. And here you debate about NTR?

NTR is there only if you somehow see it as some kind of relationship because you self-insert and you want it to be there for your personal fetish.
 

Deleted member 324588

Engaged Member
Dec 9, 2017
2,738
6,856
Yeah just choosing to ignore...that one. Grats to him for being the second person I've had to do that with in this thread. Once they become a wall that refuses to budge no matter how many facts you present them with, you're just wasting your breath at that point.

Now back to what I can hope are somewhat normal discussions.

- More full sex scenes cinematics instead of small loops
- More context / story related to those sex scenes
- Fuck this Pro-NTR / Anti-NTR debate.

That's all, topic completed
Well I'd think we'd left that debate about 50 or so pages back, but in agreement with Kerry's following statement. NTR really only applies if you're self-inserting yourself into the character's role. Which unless you're a space traveling australian hooked on cocainium, I don't think you can :p

For those first point...while I'm sure we'd all love if every Pandora scene was 5 minutes long, that's simply asking too much. Especially considering how many are currently there, and what's being added in the next update for just 4 girls. With numerous partners and kinks to fill, that'd just be impossible to do without a significantly larger team and budget. And personally I feel that if you made everything long, then the really special ones would feel monotonous at that point. You need the basic ones to make the Premium ones stand out. And the premium ones in turn will help the devotion quest animation (which is the several minute long cap off you want) do the same.

Regarding the second point, the problem with every scene having context is that that would vastly expand the dialogue. Therefore its the big bad budget rearing its head again. Now I'm sure this could easily be fixed if FOW opened up more financial support options, but they don't want to be Star Citizen, and just have endless feature creep because they keep getting more money. They have stated that the Ela update will see more sex integrated into the story, which is somewhat what you asked. I just don't see it being applied to every scene that'll be in Pandora.
 

WSmith

Active Member
Jul 25, 2018
692
1,079
0.2.2
What is this? Changelog mentions nothing, and there is no update on Steam. Nevermind, found it. I shall sit on the stupid chair today.




New Features
  • Added Gallery call out.
  • Added "Clear Input Cache" button.
Bug Fixes
  • Fixed issue with Main Menu settings not refreshing.
  • Fixed issue where switching between Waifus, in the middle of a pose transition, would break the transition.
  • Optimized memory management when loading Gallery sounds.
  • Fixed issue where Picture Wall callout was not working properly.
  • Fixed issue where resources were not updating when opening the Gallery.
  • Fixed issue where "Stop Spin" button would not disappear when manually stopping a Waifu.
Notes
  • "Clear Input Cache" button can be accessed from the settings. Players can use it in case they run into non-working bindings. It is worth nothing that a restart is required after clicking the button.
 

IG88a

Newbie
Oct 9, 2019
84
367
For those first point...while I'm sure we'd all love if every Pandora scene was 5 minutes long, that's simply asking too much. Especially considering how many are currently there, and what's being added in the next update for just 4 girls. With numerous partners and kinks to fill, that'd just be impossible to do without a significantly larger team and budget. And personally I feel that if you made everything long, then the really special ones would feel monotonous at that point. You need the basic ones to make the Premium ones stand out. And the premium ones in turn will help the devotion quest animation (which is the several minute long cap off you want) do the same.

Regarding the second point, the problem with every scene having context is that that would vastly expand the dialogue. Therefore its the big bad budget rearing its head again. Now I'm sure this could easily be fixed if FOW opened up more financial support options, but they don't want to be Star Citizen, and just have endless feature creep because they keep getting more money. They have stated that the Ela update will see more sex integrated into the story, which is somewhat what you asked. I just don't see it being applied to every scene that'll be in Pandora.
I mean they only had two years and two million dollars guys. We have to be fair here.
Like voicework could cost upwards of a whole thousand dollarydoos per hour of finished VA. Thats like... under 1% of their initial budget if they recorded another 20 solid hours of additional dialogue... 10x the length of the current games VA runtime... thats 30% of the game by chapters... the one with the most VA talking according to their own pressers due to the tutorials and necessary exposition. :HideThePain:

But you're right in appropriating my point about VA being a millstone around the neck of the game, meaning it'll never improve in it's current trajectory. Any change to game design means new voicework. Money they might not even have to budget at this point, but also time that definitely isn't on their side after 2 years of pissing around. They really, really fucked themselves on having full VA so low on the list of stretch goals. They never did a comprehensive business plan or matte out what their additional backer goals would actually cost as they added them. No one is even hounding them yet for all the other stuff that was contractually promised by accepting more money... but less than it might cost to realize.

Now most apparently erroneously assumed full VA actually meant full VA, not just the VN segments (sans mocapping the actual mouths, something that is incredibly poor form for an animation studio) but all the sex scenes. Probably foremost.

Then they announced pandora as the only method of unlocking content as the cheap copout because as you agree, VA being expensive and context dependent. Seems writing and game design is hard in their camp.
Isn't exactly what people thought they were signing up for. His shortlist there was the bare minimum people thought they were getting.

With this exchange it seems you're softballing the fact even you believe the only thing people will get out of Subverse is more of the same.
There will never be that bare minimum of content having context. The girls talking during sex. Your actions even effecting the goings on of your own characters dick.
Just more of the same short, choppy animation loops disconnected from the narrative. Tacked on as an afterthought to the entirely linear "watch cutscenes with no player choice between repetitive minigame combat that spits out big PP" main gameloop so heavily derided.

Not quite the "just wait and see when it gets good" cheery disposition you used to hold.
 
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Gwedelino

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 4, 2017
1,030
2,099
Yeah just choosing to ignore...that one. Grats to him for being the second person I've had to do that with in this thread. Once they become a wall that refuses to budge no matter how many facts you present them with, you're just wasting your breath at that point.

Now back to what I can hope are somewhat normal discussions.



Well I'd think we'd left that debate about 50 or so pages back, but in agreement with Kerry's following statement. NTR really only applies if you're self-inserting yourself into the character's role. Which unless you're a space traveling australian hooked on cocainium, I don't think you can :p

For those first point...while I'm sure we'd all love if every Pandora scene was 5 minutes long, that's simply asking too much. Especially considering how many are currently there, and what's being added in the next update for just 4 girls. With numerous partners and kinks to fill, that'd just be impossible to do without a significantly larger team and budget. And personally I feel that if you made everything long, then the really special ones would feel monotonous at that point. You need the basic ones to make the Premium ones stand out. And the premium ones in turn will help the devotion quest animation (which is the several minute long cap off you want) do the same.

Regarding the second point, the problem with every scene having context is that that would vastly expand the dialogue. Therefore its the big bad budget rearing its head again. Now I'm sure this could easily be fixed if FOW opened up more financial support options, but they don't want to be Star Citizen, and just have endless feature creep because they keep getting more money. They have stated that the Ela update will see more sex integrated into the story, which is somewhat what you asked. I just don't see it being applied to every scene that'll be in Pandora.
A huge number of games here with far far less budget are able to give context to their sex scenes.

That's not a problem of ressources, but how they are spend and what choices are made by the devs.

I don't mind having 4 or 5 times less scenes on Pandora if the remaining scenes were longer and had context.

As an exemple I think the best scene was the recruitment scene for Kily because we had context for it. It's not a 2 minutes long animation, but the story was here.

Your view about the risk of sex scenes becoming "monotonous" if all sex scenes were longer only exist because of the current situation of the Pandora system : preferring quantity over quality.

Ofc all of this is related to my vision of how sex should be implemented into this game, but it seems that I'm not the only one having this point of view.

And curiously, since Subverse is a game that try to create his own universe / story, some people are looking for the same thing for the sex scenes.
 

Deleted member 324588

Engaged Member
Dec 9, 2017
2,738
6,856
A huge number of games here with far far less budget are able to give context to their sex scenes.

That's not a problem of ressources, but how they are spend and what choices are made by the devs.
Okay but how many of those games also had a giant cast of actors to pay?
 

IG88a

Newbie
Oct 9, 2019
84
367
Gwedelino
It's really funny how shameless they are.

Schrodinger's Subverse

Both fully funded for several more years of development along with all FOW projects in the future yet also completely bankrupt and unable to throw a few hundred dollars at voice actresses to spend the day recording a batch of canned "fuck me harder baka onichan" dialogue loops.

A .0000001 early access game that can only be judged as if it materialized out of the ether yet also simultaneously a serious game from a totally professional studio who should be trusted implicitly.

When all 65,000 backer keys activating at the same time pushed it to a slow weeks no2 slot on steamDB this very same pair actually thought the game was selling tens of thousands of additional copies and they'd raked in millions of extra revenue, only for it to disappear off the board along with the cratering of playercount the second the calendar ticked forward. :KEK:
Now Studio Fow is apparently in such dire straights with no additional revenue (Not even VValen thinks the game is selling apparently) that the voicework to meet the actual intent of the backer goal is too big an expense. But 16 more chapters are totally to be released on... uh... tbd.
 
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Deleted member 324588

Engaged Member
Dec 9, 2017
2,738
6,856
As your argument about them having to pay VA isn't one. As I said before it's about how they spend their money, not how much they have.
Well unless you're gonna drop a detailed bill for how to pay at least 12+ people plus voice acting expenses over a 2 year period with what they got from KS (minus the percentage KS itself takes), then we're just going around in circles. And we're talking livable wages, as I doubt any of them are working for minimum
 

Gwedelino

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 4, 2017
1,030
2,099
Well unless you're gonna drop a detailed bill for how to pay at least 12+ people plus voice acting expenses over a 2 year period with what they got from KS (minus the percentage KS itself takes), then we're just going around in circles. And we're talking livable wages, as I doubt any of them are working for minimum
You created this meaningless circle by bringing this "but they must pay their VA argument".

My opinion is quite clear, and I will say it again : it's about how they spend their money, not how much they have.

I already said in my previous post that I wouldn't mind having way less sex scenes in the game in order to favorise quality other quantity. In this situation, you don't spend more, you just make a different choice of how you spend your money.

Same for giving context to the sex scenes and same for the VA. We would probably have a different adventure and different dialogues if they decided to give sex scenes fully implemented into the story, but it would have been better for my point of view.
 

Razrback16

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
1,752
3,805
You created this meaningless circle by bringing this "but they must pay their VA argument".

My opinion is quite clear, and I will say it again : it's about how they spend their money, not how much they have.

I already said in my previous post that I wouldn't mind having way less sex scenes in the game in order to favorise quality other quantity. In this situation, you don't spend more, you just make a different choice of how you spend your money.

Same for giving context to the sex scenes and same for the VA. We would probably have a different adventure and different dialogues if they decided to give sex scenes fully implemented into the story, but it would have been better for my point of view.
Agreed. Would be perfectly happy to see half as many GIFs if it meant proper, narrative-driven [actual] scenes and / or have proper flow when you put a lead-in --> scene --> lead-out selection so that they resulted in an actual, mostly complete scene and not brief, looping GIFs with minimal (or zero) context.
 
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Kernist

Member
Dec 1, 2017
318
364
Again with "It's just an EA, you can't judge, wait till the game is finished".

Well, before it gets finished this game will no longer be sci-fi but history oriented game because humanity will progress further than what is shown in this game.

I think it's over. Who backed the game on KS, backed it. Who fell into the trap of Studio FOW bought this EA. What's next? Who will buy the game now when we are probably years from finished version and people who were hyped already got it? I can't imagine a scenario where people who were undecided will suddenly buy the game after what happens here, what happens on discord, reddit and Steam discussions and how recent reviews for the game look like. I didn't think this game will be good from the start, but now I doubt it will ever be finished. Live and learn.
 

IG88a

Newbie
Oct 9, 2019
84
367
You created this meaningless circle by bringing this "but they must pay their VA argument".

My opinion is quite clear, and I will say it again : it's about how they spend their money, not how much they have.

I already said in my previous post that I wouldn't mind having way less sex scenes in the game in order to favorise quality other quantity. In this situation, you don't spend more, you just make a different choice of how you spend your money.

Same for giving context to the sex scenes and same for the VA. We would probably have a different adventure and different dialogues if they decided to give sex scenes fully implemented into the story, but it would have been better for my point of view.
Thats really the crux of it, overwhelming mismanagement and poor game design.

Even the pandora interface could have been done right, they just half assed it. What they wanted to do with it was give people the ability to chain scenes together into custom interactive events. Then they realized at some point this is hard, that context became hard, and decided to remove context (or never had it to begin with) from the equation. Rendering a system invented for customizablilty entirely sterile. Even that could be reading too much into it because this is the first time they've ever had to deal with 'contextualizing' anything. Their videos are self contextualizing, Worgen X _____, but in a videogame every sex scene needs to be narratively supported or... subverse happens.

How you'd fix this from the current state is a product of several new elements.
1. In narrative sex scene unlocks with a narrative intro and outtro (The fucking duh one)
2. the pandora system as an interface is girl specific and opens when you click a "sex menu" button when interacting with her
3. They add something new, radiant intro and outtro.
5-7+ randomized "So Captain what are we going to do on the bed" "I haven't been fucked like that since gradeschool" Visual novel segments that bookend the 1-3 sex scenes you've chosen.

I can even foster a simple lore/mechanics fix for why mantics aren't cuckshit
>They're piloted by you
Why you aren't a field unit, you are. Just not as you.
Lily cloned the current batch of Mantics from your DNA and you're piloting/directing them in combat. When you aren't in direct control, they're just order driven beasts. Why this is a desired military technology, easy bake becoming a hive faction. Why people are chasing Lily.

To the proposed "you get to the gallery through the girl menu" change, then how do you get to mantic content? The current interface, on the bed. For mantic scenes only. Separated from general content.
Lily didn't start fucking dogs, the player (having agency) being a le edgy pervert gets the bright idea to patch in to a mantic and mount her in the lab. She doesn't complain much and doesn't force the issue that she knows you know you piloted it the 97 times she's been fucked by her experiments this week.

With any, let alone meaningful choice, being absent from Subverse's game design these are the kind of mostly simple mechanic/structure side changes that would give some much needed actual gameplay to their game. Because as it sits, the combat isn't gameplay. It's reduced in role to a minigame due to the lack of gameloop surrounding it.
 
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