Unreal Engine Subverse [v0.9] [Studio Fow]

[IG88a]

I find it funny that the cause of all these complaints is because Studio Fow did not put sexual content as priority number 1 in this first version.
Because let's face it, if they had put, I don't know, 20 additional scenes for each girl and make the Pandora system not a gif player, 75% of this thread would not exist, because all the problems were born from that. The complaints on Steam and on the discord, those same complaints being deleted and everything we saw here, etc ...
A true '' Butterfly Effect '' in all its glory.

Yep, it'd probably sit at a comfortable F95 4.5/5 and near perfect steam score with every comment being summed up as "Every part of the game sucks but Studio FOW gave us 40 minutes of animation with VA and promises hours more. 11/10 almost tore my dick off."
All the critiques of their "Game for adults" would still be valid, but no one would bother stating the obvious. The game wouldn't be about the gameplay.

Instead they ran with the rich and detailed and totally not half baked combat-exploration playloop. The "Don't you guys have phones" of Hgames like they memed all those years ago in the first launch trailer.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Since you're implicitly ceding the rest you can't defend on, if you don't see how an after the fact "Yeah 27% of the game currently at is less than 3 hours long but don't worry, thats because of all the frontloaded talking to get it past the 2 hour mark so people can't return it" admission isn't a good thing for the longevity of the game...
"The builds you haven't seen and we haven't made maybe might be longer, but unlike the intro that packed with a lot of tutorial and exposition they'll have less cutscenes" ...which means less voice acted dialogue ...which means less runtime. Notice how that doesn't follow. No part of that paints them in a good light. Either they shortchanged you a third of your game in a steam note and you're waving it away or they're lying about it being representative to pretend the total runtime of the game isn't ~12 hours if you listen to every snippet of dialogue.

As to the latter point, I've been pretty clear I'm of the opinion they spent their money and releasing at all was for a cash infusion they didn't seem to get. 2 years of salaries, taxes, etc.
If you can say anything you've alluded to is in the ballpark of truth, it's that they aren't exactly a AAA studio here.

No new builds, no concrete release date has put things back into devhell like it was before launch. What they're promising next isn't anything monumental, but probably counts as 4-6 "chapters." 3 more builds around the same time footprint as the first, but with more grind of the same 2 modes and map layouts for more pooter points for more contextless, unvoiceacted 3 second porn loops because VA is context dependent and writing is hard.

About the best case, there actually being a game, but that doesn't mean it'll be good.
Things didn't have to be this grim, but they've assured us time and again they refuse to address any of the foundational problems about their game design. So if it even releases fully, this is the state it will be in.


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So you've arrived to the same conclusion then, the girls having different pools for pooterpoints serves no purpose if you get trash to hand to them that converts into PP each mission. Although I believe it's a soft lock, no one has the patience to farm hundreds of gifts into the girl to see if it's possible to get the rest to full having run the game with only one girl. Either way it means while judging things on the merit of game design as a "game for adults" instead of an "adult game"... it's badly designed.

The date mechanic not being implemented is the least of the problem when the pandora system means it's pointless; all sex scenes are purchased for points. Could they walk that back for narratively unlocked sex content? Well "they've addressed it" and the answer is a resolute no.

The game will serve up enough PP to go around to unlock everything, but in what order you as a player decide to unlock things, is up to you. Just as you could decide somewhat what order you wanted to do side missions etc in Mass Effect.
Or any other semi open sandbox world game.

The things you can gift the girls for points on the dates you need to figure out what they like. It's not like just careless give them stuff they don't want and expect much back from it. Also you DONT FARM gifts, they come as drops in missions and side missions you do. Maybe the concept of "loot" in games is foreign for you?

Do you get a boner itch from playing Xcom? Or a shoot em up game? Do you get a itch watching some lewd scenes in an action flick rated for adults? etc etc.. Some of the actual game elements could been done better, but I don't judge to harsh on such in a early access. An adult game, and a game for adults is just the same, where you going with that? Let's take one of the most "blue balls" games/vn's on this site.. "A wife and a mother".. Is that a game/story for adults, or is it a PORN game? Where is the focus? Is Fifty shades of grey porn, or is fiction/erotic for adults?

 

[Archif1]

Also

HAPPY 200 PAGES YOU HORNY MOTHERFU-

 

[RedARREMER]

0.2.2

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[IG88a]

The game will serve up enough PP to go around to unlock everything, but in what order you as a player decide to unlock things, is up to you. Just as you could decide somewhat what order you wanted to do side missions etc in Mass Effect.
Or any other semi open sandbox world game.

The things you can gift the girls for points on the dates you need to figure out what they like. It's not like just careless give them stuff they don't want and expect much back from it. Also you DONT FARM gifts, they come as drops in missions and side missions you do. Maybe the concept of "loot" in games is foreign for you?

Do you get a boner itch from playing Xcom? Or a shoot em up game? Do you get a itch watching some lewd scenes in an action flick rated for adults? etc etc.. Some of the actual game elements could been done better, but I don't judge to harsh on such in a early access. An adult game, and a game for adults is just the same, where you going with that? Let's take one of the most "blue balls" games/vn's on this site.. "A wife and a mother".. Is that a game/story for adults, or is it a PORN game? Where is the focus? Is Fifty shades of grey porn, or is fiction/erotic for adults?

A system designed and implemented to patch a soft lock created by a former system could... get this... be solved by amending the former system. Gifts/Trash items don't have an actual purpose in their gameplay loop but dumping into girls on the end if you played on mechanics instead of on unlocking content. PP could just be one currency, problem solved and balooning coding footprint averted from needing a gift system (with no anger or personal relationship/relationsim elements) accounting for past and future girls. As a "game for adults" that is badly designed.

Captain underpants being able to say fuck isn't what makes this an adult game, it's the porn m8. The AO rating comes from the Tits and monster sex. Do you really want to keep septupling down on the game as a "real game for adults" when it fails far harder when viewed as an Xcom and bullethell game compared to name a legitimate title of either genre? At least Valien knows to hide behind the smut.

I'll give you a direct comparison, one highly relevant.
It was also a front end crowdfunded title made by people who had made a name for themselves in the industry and pivoted it into the game. It's also listed on steam and frequently ends up in steam promotions if you have the adult tag allowed. It also released in early access, but on time if not ahead of schedule.
A little game called "Max Gentlemen Sexy Business"
It is an adult game, with adult humor, and very, very, very VERY little porn for it's runtime.
I reviewed right here. Highly. Why?
>Because it's fun
An actually good management game with clever adult humor, good OC characters, mostly interesting unique takes on game mechanics for its genre, all topped off by decently written relationsim elements with it's dozen+ characters.
It legitimately was dragged down and hamstrung by giving itself an unwarranted adult rating. Without a few pairs of tits it'd be a MA or lighter and just as entertaining.
And unlike subverse they hit the ground running to exit early access and start producing further content for the title, within weeks having a newgame+ and extented ending gamemode.

Subverse without the pandora system and porn barely even qualifies as a game. It's just two newgrounds flashgames in a trenchcoat shouting fuck. There is no nonporn reason for your "game for adults" to operate on. it's entire underpinning and central plot mechanic is just accessing the pandora system. That is why they're so afraid to pull this card out from the bottom of their stack of cards. Fixing the pandora system requires making a competent game. Even a fully linear one following basic conventions is seemingly beyond them, they're afraid to try and think they can power through to the end of development on this misguided game design and baffling idea people are here for the "Adult themes" of not deadpool being zany and not the "Adult content" of monster sex people expected to be fully VA'd and animated like their past works.

 

[Joshua Tree]

A system designed and implemented to patch a soft lock created by a former system could... get this... be solved by amending the former system. Gifts/Trash items don't have an actual purpose in their gameplay loop but dumping into girls on the end if you played on mechanics instead of on unlocking content. PP could just be one currency, problem solved and balooning coding footprint averted from needing a gift system (with no anger or personal relationship/relationsim elements) accounting for past and future girls. As a "game for adults" that is badly designed.

Captain underpants being able to say fuck isn't what makes this an adult game, it's the porn m8. The AO rating comes from the Tits and monster sex. Do you really want to keep septupling down on the game as a "real game for adults" when it fails far harder when viewed as an Xcom and bullethell game compared to name a legitimate title of either genre? At least Valien knows to hide behind the smut.

I'll give you a direct comparison, one highly relevant.
It was also a front end crowdfunded title made by people who had made a name for themselves in the industry and pivoted it into the game. It's also listed on steam and frequently ends up in steam promotions if you have the adult tag allowed. It also released in early access, but on time if not ahead of schedule.
A little game called "Max Gentlemen Sexy Business"
It is an adult game, with adult humor, and very, very, very VERY little porn for it's runtime.
I reviewed right here. Highly. Why?
>Because it's fun
An actually good management game with clever adult humor, good OC characters, mostly interesting unique takes on game mechanics for its genre, all topped off by decently written relationsim elements with it's dozen+ characters.
It legitimately was dragged down and hamstrung by giving itself an unwarranted adult rating. Without a few pairs of tits it'd be a MA or lighter and just as entertaining.
And unlike subverse they hit the ground running to exit early access and start producing further content for the title, within weeks having a newgame+ and extented ending gamemode.

Subverse without the pandora system and porn barely even qualifies as a game. It's just two newgrounds flashgames in a trenchcoat shouting fuck. There is no nonporn reason for your "game for adults" to operate on. it's entire underpinning and central plot mechanic is just accessing the pandora system. That is why they're so afraid to pull this card out from the bottom of their stack of cards. Fixing the pandora system requires making a competent game. Even a fully linear one following basic conventions is seemingly beyond them, they're afraid to try and think they can power through to the end of development on this misguided game design and baffling idea people are here for the "Adult themes" of not deadpool being zany and not the "Adult content" of monster sex people expected to be fully VA'd and animated like their past works.

I forgot you had a full copy of the completed game and could review it as such... right?

 

[IG88a]

I forgot you had a full copy of the completed game and could review it as such... right?

I mean we only have the repeated dev response that they aren't changing the core game systems and powering through with this overarching game design but who am I to tell you to listen to the word of your personal godhoward.

If they lied to you and ignored their community mods and fanboys about changing the game, it'd be the first smart thing they've done concerning post launch development.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I mean we only have the repeated dev response that they aren't changing the core game systems and powering through with this overarching game design but who am I to tell you to listen to the word of your personal godhoward.

If they lied to you and ignored their community mods and fanboys about changing the game, it'd be the first smart thing they've done concerning post launch development.

Where did they say they would change the game according to what the fanboys and community wanted? They said they did listen to feedback. That doesn't mean they will be dictated in how they make their game. Seeing what people post of desires and wishes on the steam forum. Should they just implement and change whatever people wanted, because that would make a good game right? Maybe you should apply for a position as game designer?

 

[IG88a]

Where did they say they would change the game according to what the fanboys and community wanted? They said they did listen to feedback. That doesn't mean they will be dictated in how they make their game. Seeing what people post of desires and wishes on the steam forum. Should they just implement and change whatever people wanted, because that would make a good game right? Maybe you should apply for a position as game designer?

I know you tend to hide behind this convenient misinterpreting shtick, but if the community mods who are caught dead to rights censoring and banning any legitimate criticism of the current game and the rabid fanboys are of the opinion the game is fine as is and we just need more of it, what would FOW have to do to ignore them?

 

[Joshua Tree]

I know you tend to hide behind this convenient misinterpreting shtick, but if the community mods who are caught dead to rights censoring and banning any legitimate criticism of the current game and the rabid fanboys are of the opinion the game is fine as is and we just need more of it, what would FOW have to do to ignore them?

I seen a lot of criticism where people haven't got banned as well. Don't make it sound like everyone that raise a voice get banned. I seen some god awful behavior where people been banned justified. I'm not saying mods doesn't do wrong. Some threads on this site quite vocal about such., but usually a case got at least two sides and the truth somewhere in the middle.

If you read through the feedback thread you will find quite some good suggestions on things to improve, critic and so forth, but don't get surprised if posts of the type "x & y suck, CHANGE, gief more porn NOW!". get deleted..

 

[IG88a]

I seen a lot of criticism where people haven't got banned as well. Don't make it sound like everyone that raise a voice get banned. I seen some god awful behavior where people been banned justified. I'm not saying mods doesn't do wrong. Some threads on this site quite vocal about such., but usually a case got at least two sides and the truth somewhere in the middle.

If you read through the feedback thread you will find quite some good suggestions on things to improve, critic and so forth, but don't get surprised if posts of the type "x & y suck, CHANGE, gief more porn NOW!". get deleted..

The 7 second long sex animation loops really are inexcusable. I get that this is their first game, but animating 3D models is something they're known to have lots of experience in. I can give them some leeway on the rest of the game, its mechanics, how awkwardly scenes are unlocked (Pandora), but there's no way they should get a pass for giving us about 20 7 second long sex scenes. There's a thing called quality over quantity. One of the recent journal updates says the next patch will include a 20+ more animations but will those be 7-15 second long animations as well?

Seriously, look at these. All non-premium scenes range from 5 to 7 second long loop animations.

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The "Premium" scenes are 30 seconds at best, and this includes the speed up and finishing variations.

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It's bad enough that they've already said that there will be no way to unlock optional Mantic scenes through the game's story/gameplay, but the fact that they wholeheartedly expected people to be satisfied with the way the Pandora system was implemented is shocking bad. What's worse is that their community managers started banning users on their official discord server or calling users entitled on the steam forums for criticism they didn't like.

You have tons of users criticizing Pandora and even giving constructive feedback on how to make it better, only for mods on the steam forum to issue a blanket statement that the complaints "aren't the majority and that the Pandora system won't go anywhere
View attachment 1310615

I was once even singled out, insulted, and banned by the Community Manager at one point. He literally made up lies that I was abusing other members, but refused to provide a single screenshot proof (there is none, he needed a reason to remove me) of me doing any of his claims. Not a single user online agreed with him, nor did the user unnamed user (he made up, obviously) he claimed to have been complaining about me ever stepped forward.

He first calls me out inside the server itself, then when nobody backs him up on it, he tells me to go into private chat:
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He brings me into private chat so that he can make these claims without having to worry about other users pointing out that none of them have seen me abusing others. When asked for the screenshots he claims staff has (obviously has none, nor did the rest of the staff even know about this), he refuses to show any.
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He did immediately opts to rageban me the moment he's backed into that corner. You can see from the post timestamps:
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Fowchan (the head of community management) is rarely around the the reddit, discord, or steam pages, so the staff can usually get away with banning users to block out comments that give the game bad optics. I was able to contact her through their website and talk about it in discord. She was actually really nice and apologetic about it (although too soft on her staff), and unbanned me.
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The problem here is that the game's development team and community team seems to lack organization. Staff (not Fowchan to my knowledge) will outright lie about game features, ban users for no reason, blanket denounce feedback as "minority complaints", and do all kinds of things without others in their team knowing about it. For some reason Fowchan doesn't consider him a community manager, despite him being listed as one on their official discord. He and MrKristoff are essentially the two guys to go to
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Now bans aren't even the problem. The main issue is that we have community managers and mods within their team silencing users or just acting like children about feedback they don't like, resulting in users getting banned and that feedback being nuked from their discord/reddit. The community manager members have said multiple times in their discord that everything posted in the feedback channel is eventually logged and then looked through by the devs. Banning users for no reason means all their posts are automatically nuked from the server, deleting all that feedback. It's very easy to see how this kind of feedback is in the "minority" when they'll just nuke it, lie to their superiors about it ever happening. They've been so adamant on not changing how the Pandora system works and the way staff is "damage controlling" shows that there are some very big problems in the entire Subverse team as a whole. Nobody seems to be on the same page and the actual devs themselves rarely ever show up to post or make conversations with the community. At best, it's a public statement or dev diary. The disconnect is huge.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Not saying he is wrong in regard of the moderator. Just saying he show us what he want to show us. If he ended up get an apology and a ban lifted then why keep cry about it?

Seen users on this forum post about they went to some creators discord and "told them", resulting in a ban (and not just one time), then come back post about it to gloat as it's some sort of honor badge. With such mentality floating around I don't really have half a ear or eye open when people complain about get banned. Same when I also consider what I seen of peoples behavior on the subverse steam forum that got them banned.

So, posted your critic and feedback in their feedback thread yet? Did it get you banned? Since NBV isn't banned any longer there, maybe he can post a link to his feedback and critics on the steam forum? People can cry about been gagged, but where is the pudding?

 

[IG88a]

You're literally saying "Yeah well he's not banned now so why does everyone have a problem with their mods acting in bad faith???? I mean have you personally been banned recently??????? Maybe you should have posted in the Steam community instead... thats controlled by community moderation... appointed by the developer..."

If you didn't think F95 was a high traffic source of potential customers that 'defending' the game like this could funnel over buy the game and support studio FOW you wouldn't be here.

I honestly wonder how you're not conscious of the damage you're doing to the "brand" of Subverse.

 

[Joshua Tree]

You're literally saying "Yeah well he's not banned now so why does everyone have a problem with their mods acting in bad faith???? I mean have you personally been banned recently??????? Maybe you should have posted in the Steam community instead... thats controlled by community moderation... appointed by the developer..."

If you didn't think F95 was a high traffic source of potential customers that 'defending' the game like this could funnel over buy the game and support studio FOW you wouldn't be here.

I honestly wonder how you're not conscious of the damage you're doing to the "brand" of Subverse.

You are the one stating everyone posting critic get banned. So where is the feedback and critic you posted? Did you get banned? I been involved in piracy of games (whatever), since I got a c64 way back. When internet became a thing that expanded many times over. If you want to accuse people of shill for something to attract customers on a pirate site, then you don't come across as very bright.

With the amount of fertilizer you are spreading all over Subverse you shouldn't talk about brand damage

 

[IG88a]

You are the one stating everyone posting critic get banned. So where is the feedback and critic you posted? Did you get banned? I been involved in piracy of games (whatever), since I got a c64 way back. When internet became a thing that expanded many times over. If you want to accuse people of shill for something to attract customers on a pirate site, then you don't come across as very bright.

With the amount of fertilizer you are spreading all over Subverse you shouldn't talk about brand damage

And you have a legitimate copy if memory serves, follow the development, are active in the official media portals for the game. And are doggedly defending the game, making accusations, lowering yourself to personal attacks, and circling the wagons to find a shred of light in all the darkness to claim that at some point in the future if everyone just waits the promised AAA porngame (their words) will materialize. On a piracy site. Y tho. Seriously.
Explain the rationale behind how do you think you're helping foster the brand by claiming a PM chain with those at the top about their own moderation practices isn't enough "proofs" there is an internal issue with how they handle feedback within their power to delete?

You really don't seem to understand your own archetype here
All us meanieheads said our piece about the game around launch and don't think it's improving. The .2.2 leak more than likely will vindicate that when someone wastes the bandwidth and any new scenes will be on rule34video a minute later. The thread isn't bumped by the people who honestly rated and played the game, it's bumped by... others, which generates these flurries of posts in response. Now F95 pops up when you search "Subverse free" pretty damn quickly and fresh eyes might react to the dichotomous difference between our rating and the steam rating, maybe not privy to the fact the lions share of current reviews were posted the first hour the game launched and slowly ticked down to it's present state losing nearly 20 points in aggregate. In the absence of lets call it a "clear comparison" it may even seem we're being overly critical. Too nitpicky. Going against the grain for it's own sake. That is until you see the active discussion with the games gallant defenders interacting with said community. I bet a lot of them come away from that thinking "Oh. Good thing I didn't spend $30 on this."

My spread is covered. If the game stays like this the 2.5 rating is accurate, if it improves it'll be because people complained loud enough. And by backchannels, fomenting a public perception they've lost control of. (The public perception of most games journos/youtubers as of now with the hype firmly dead for those that bother to keep tabs on dumpsterfires.)

From your perspective how is that you've positioned yourself to eat crow if they radically improve the gameloop and lean heavily into pornography? I don't see how you'd find that where you want to be, as a customer or general state of being.

 

[Joshua Tree]

IG88a Sorry bob, but you really lost your marbles...

Why do you expect new scenes in a bugfix that 2.2 is? Maybe you should go back and read the dev diary from July 16...

 

[IG88a]

IG88a Sorry bob, but you really lost your marbles...

Why do you expect new scenes in a bugfix that 2.2 is? Maybe you should go back and read the dev diary from July 16...

Ack, my pride. if only I'd known a version number change was a lie from studio FOW! I'd assumed erroneous in my great folly they may not be 100% in devhell on real builds when someone posted an update link.

yeah sidestep, deflect and act flippantly. 50% of the time it works every time. I still really don't get how the hill you want to die on is the main gameloop shouldn't be improved and the game shouldn't expand it's integration with pornography. Like, why would you want that?

 

[Joshua Tree]

Ack, my pride. if only I'd known a version number change was a lie from studio FOW! I'd assumed erroneous in my great folly they may not be 100% in devhell on real builds when someone posted an update link.

yeah sidestep, deflect and act flippantly. 50% of the time it works every time. I still really don't get how the hill you want to die on is the main gameloop shouldn't be improved and the game shouldn't expand it's integration with pornography. Like, why would you want that?

Newsflash... games get a new version number when they updated with a bugfix...

Nothing keep you from post feedback on the steam forums. You don't need to own a game to partake in the forums. You can hide if you own the game or not in your profile as well. So how about it bob, where is your feedback?

I never said what the game shouldn't do, or shouldn't be. Just referred to what the devs said about it themselves. There is even youtube links further back in the thread where they talk about it. In case reading is a issue. Just as I don't throw a judgement on some 0.1 release on this site, I don't see why should do it with a game in early access on steam either.

 

[IG88a]

And back to the start of the script. You said a lot more past that, as you have many time before, most recently a page back.

Your "opinion" is this isn't a porn game because the devs said so, it's a bigboy adult game for adults and the AO rating is for... something other than ever present sex with dog monsters, and are apparently happy with that as the state of things for why they shoved the still integral pornography into a side interface. In a gameplay loop entirely centered around farming points to feed into a machine that spits out contextless sex scenes instead of doing the normal, conventional, thing and having the content narratively integrated as milestones to a "waifu"s relationship. A system they have stated they aren't entertaining changing while banning critique and suggestion wherever they can due to in the best case unprofessional moderators. A known quantity at this point of a game that launched in a feature complete state with almost a third of it's narrative content implemented. After over Two years of development. It isn't a .001 because it is in early access, it wasn't supposed to release in early access at all. But these are your stated beliefs you've held within the last 12 hours.

 

[Joshua Tree]

And back to the start of the script. You said a lot more past that, as you have many time before, most recently a page back.

Your "opinion" is this isn't a porn game because the devs said so, it's a bigboy adult game for adults and the AO rating is for... something other than ever present sex with dog monsters, and are apparently happy with that as the state of things for why they shoved the still integral pornography into a side interface. In a gameplay loop entirely centered around farming points to feed into a machine that spits out contextless sex scenes instead of doing the normal, conventional, thing and having the content narratively integrated as milestones to a "waifu"s relationship. A system they have stated they aren't entertaining changing while banning critique and suggestion wherever they can due to in the best case unprofessional moderators. A known quantity at this point of a game that launched in a feature complete state with almost a third of it's narrative content implemented. After over Two years of development. It isn't a .001 because it is in early access, it wasn't supposed to release in early access at all. But these are your stated beliefs you've held within the last 12 hours.

If the creator say they are making a game for adults, and not a porn game, well that is what they are doing right? If you want a porn game you want something that serve up one kitty after the other to nut too.. Not have you play tactical ground combat and a shoot em up and get served lewdness on the side. You can feel free to define subverse to whatever you feel like like, but it doesn't change the fact it is what the creators decide it is.

Posted your feedback and critic on the steam forums yet? Maybe afraid of get banned by the scary mod monster....

Unless you can come up with something new, going back and forth with you get old very fast. Especially when you grab fertilizer out of thin air with no recites to show for.