Unreal Engine Subverse [v0.9] [Studio Fow]

[Yojimbo543]

Quote from their DD1:

"I can assure you we are not buying Ferraris or snorting coke from hookers’ buttholes. You’ve made your voices clear on how you want Subverse to be the leader in the adult scene, and I am completely on board with that. We’ll be using the funds for recruitment and expanding our team first and foremost, making sure that the dev team is in a position to deliver the remaining chapters and module upgrades in a timely fashion. We are 100% committed to working with you guys during Early Access so please keep the feedback coming. We’re all loving the passion and engagement from the community!"

Yeah, that aged well.
They've lost more than half their workers but "it's just a bump in the road"
Sure thing. Guys, just don't forget to

KEEP CALM, BUY MERCH AND CARRY ON

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Quote from their DD1:

"I can assure you we are not buying Ferraris or snorting coke from hookers’ buttholes. You’ve made your voices clear on how you want Subverse to be the leader in the adult scene, and I am completely on board with that. We’ll be using the funds for recruitment and expanding our team first and foremost, making sure that the dev team is in a position to deliver the remaining chapters and module upgrades in a timely fashion. We are 100% committed to working with you guys during Early Access so please keep the feedback coming. We’re all loving the passion and engagement from the community!"

Yeah, that aged well.
They've lost more than half their workers but "it's just a bump in the road"
Sure thing. Guys, just don't forget to

KEEP CALM, BUY MERCH AND CARRY ON

Just gonna address a few of the not nonsensical points: HungryJJ’s been there from early on, he’s primarily been shown to be working on the ship combat. You often see longer entries from him when they’ve added new mission variety.

As for why there’s more artist posts than game talk? Because it was made clear from the earlier dev diaries that the majority of the players aren’t all that interested in seeing the technical stuff. Go back to some of the gameplay only discussion diaries and read the comments.

Lastly merch didn’t just come out of nowhere, they polled the discord months ago about if they did physical merch, what kinds would they be interested in, to great positive response. I imagine if we didn’t have some giant world affecting event like the pandemic, it probably would’ve happened already.

 

[Danlorn]

Maybe, but ya’ll are overreacting I feel. Like they announced a drastic change in design, or signed up with EA xD

Departures are a concern, but it’s not a cliff, it’s a bump in the road. Have to wait to see how they deal with them.

Okay... Here's some very optimistic prognosis: it'll take SFOW another year to add the basic stuff for Huntress, Blythe and Fowchan, and another 4-6 months to make some content for Empress and Kasidora. Plus they still need to add devotion missions and costumes for each girl, maybe more pandora scenes, plus polish everything and finish the game somehow... Another 3-4 years? So 4-6 years in total to finish the rest of the game and only if all goes the same way as it were before they lost the half of the team, and if the game keeps brining them good money to pay for all that. Also remember they are against roadmaps and tend to waste time and resources on stuff like drinking game and changing UI...

Can't really blame them for being slow and making lots of mistakes, they're amateurs after all, everyone starts from something. But I just don't believe it'll end well, the project felt like a trainwreck since the very moment they decided to split the game in pieces instead of releasing the fully finished product. Obviously they didn't have the shit ready at the initial release day and now they have to work on each update from scratch in short 3-4 months gaps, which most likely means not so good working atmosphere for the team.

I dunno, that doesn't look overreacting to me. It's more like a feeling that pretty much everything goes bad with this project for pretty long time, and it's hard for me to believe it won't collapse at some point...

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Okay... Here's some very optimistic prognosis: it'll take SFOW another year to add the basic stuff for Huntress, Blythe and Fowchan, and another 4-6 months to make some content for Empress and Kasidora. Plus they still need to add devotion missions and costumes for each girl, maybe more pandora scenes, plus polish everything and finish the game somehow... Another 3-4 years? So 4-6 years in total to finish the rest of the game and only if all goes the same way as it were before they lost the half of the team, and if the game keeps brining them good money to pay for all that. Also remember they are against roadmaps and tend to waste time and resources on stuff like drinking game and changing UI...

Can't really blame them for being slow and making lots of mistakes, they're amateurs after all, everyone starts from something. But I just don't believe it'll end well, the project felt like a trainwreck since the very moment they decided to split the game in pieces instead of releasing the fully finished product. Obviously they didn't have the shit ready at the initial release day and now they have to work on each update from scratch in short 3-4 months gaps, which most likely means not so good working atmosphere for the team.

I dunno, that doesn't look overreacting to me. It's more like a feeling that pretty much everything goes bad with this project for pretty long time, and it's hard for me to believe it won't collapse at some point...

Kas won’t be getting lewd content, her VA audition specified its a SFW role. As for Celestina, she isn’t considered a waifu in gameplay terms, so it’s likely she’ll only be lewded in cinematic form.

The decision of early access to full game to early access again was a lot to think about. Initially it’d have been like a chapter by chapter thing but that would’ve meant a ton of updating per little piece. So they shifted to a full release, but that pissed off many of their backers. So they met in the middle to do early access, but in large sections of the game at a time. A fair compromise I feel.

Things like the drinking game, the gallery, and such were out of feedback to have more to do than the same two gameplay loops we know of. And that’s been also shown in ship and grid mission variety from Ela onward. Hopefully be seeing variety in the music as well in the forthcoming update.

My own estimate was the next 3 ladies next year and the endgame to wrap up the game around early 2024. A 5 year run from the initial campaign beginning, which would be quite good for a game this size. Depending on how soon they replace team members, I could see it stretched to mid-2024.

 

[Danlorn]

Kas won’t be getting lewd content, her VA audition specified its a SFW role.

Sucks

As for Celestina, she isn’t considered a waifu in gameplay terms, so it’s likely she’ll only be lewded in cinematic form.

Sucks x2

My own estimate was the next 3 ladies next year and the endgame to wrap up the game around early 2024. A 5 year run from the initial campaign beginning, which would be quite good for a game this size. Depending on how soon they replace team members, I could see it stretched to mid-2024.

You're very optimistic, sir... What about devotion quests? It's a pretty big chunk of content they promised. I highly doubt they'll manage to finish it in 2023 while working on the rest three girls. So what do you think they're gonna do? Rush it during the first half of 2024 while also working on the endgame? Or cut out completely?

 

[Gwedelino]

Looks like drama is back to the menu.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Sucks


Sucks x2


You're very optimistic, sir... What about devotion quests? It's a pretty big chunk of content they promised. I highly doubt they'll manage to finish it in 2023 while working on the rest three girls. So what do you think they're gonna do? Rush it during the first half of 2024 while also working on the endgame? Or cut out completely?

As I said have to look to the next dev blog to see the state of things. If they can replenish their staff after the holidays. But given they’re already working on 0.7 and 0.8 content, they’ve got a head start on things even if they’re short on team members.

As for devotion missions we do know they’ve been working on the first 3 gals. If they’re added in 0.7, they could then work on the next 3 whilst adding the final 3 ladies. And then the final 3’s missions are done while they form the endgame. Just a hypothetical, but it’s possible.

Really though I don’t think this is a big setback. That the delay is only a few weeks is commendable. There are other games I’ve seen on this site that go dark for months because 1 person left. And they’re working on much smaller games by comparison.

 

[RedRock]

They're probably spending more money paying shills for damage control than their own staff, no wonder why half of them have left.
Remember when the game was announced, how they wanted to do an "old-school gaming experience" and they made fun of modern gaming with it's micro-transactions? Their kickstarter page still says "Estimated delivery: Jun 2019".
More than 3 years after their "estimate" and the game isn't halfway done, they've lost more than half of their staff and they're going to sell merch...

Although clearly, they had good intentions, the funding model they chose for this project was extremely short sighted. They have most likely been underbudgeting since the start. Game production is expensive at the best of times, indie game production, especially in the adult space has even more trouble securing consistent funding. Thats why other equally ambitious projects that have been in development as long or longer, continue to take crowdfunding or secure a publishing partner all the way up to final release. All this talk of so many staff leaving is making me paranoid that they have essentially run out of money and made the inevitable decision to downsize the team. The constant revamping/cutting and restructuring of core game elements just adds to this fear. They might not have the manpower to add much in the way of new content, so all the remaining creative energy and shoestring budget has to go towards tweaking what's already been finished. If selling merch helps them secure the funding, that they seem to need pretty desperately, then fuck it sell as much merch as necessary, there seems to be a market for it judging by steam comments. And ultimately, the more money they make the better chance there is that everyone working on the game actually gets paid (the sheer amount of staff that have left is almost certainly an indication that pay has started to become an issue).

I feel really bad for the team since a lot of this is definitely on upper management, and the work they have done so far is (despite what a lot of complaints say) a strong foundation for a pretty solid title. I hope they can pull through and ship a 1.0 that they can all be proud of, but right now it looks like a lot of shady shit is going on behind the scenes.

 

[OuterACG]

Kas won’t be getting lewd content

What a pity for MILF.

 

[Yojimbo543]

Although clearly, they had good intentions, the funding model they chose for this project was extremely short sighted. They have most likely been underbudgeting since the start. Game production is expensive at the best of times, indie game production, especially in the adult space has even more trouble securing consistent funding. Thats why other equally ambitious projects that have been in development as long or longer, continue to take crowdfunding or secure a publishing partner all the way up to final release. All this talk of so many staff leaving is making me paranoid that they have essentially run out of money and made the inevitable decision to downsize the team. The constant revamping/cutting and restructuring of core game elements just adds to this fear. They might not have the manpower to add much in the way of new content, so all the remaining creative energy and shoestring budget has to go towards tweaking what's already been finished.

I feel really bad for the team since a lot of this is definitely on upper management, and the work they have done so far is (despite what a lot of complaints say) a strong foundation for a pretty solid title. I hope they can pull through and ship a 1.0 that they can all be proud of, but right now it looks like a lot of shady shit is going on behind the scenes.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
These guys had been making 3D porn movies for 10+ years with a donation model BEFORE they decided to make a game. They launched the project on March, 24, 2019. 3 1/2 years later and the "game" has A LOT of cut content (compared to the initial pitch) and less than 50% of the promised content (after said cuts). And said game is a VN with good voice acting, a (flashy-looking but) very basic SHMUP, a "tactical combat grid" that's boring AF for 90% of players (who aren't into turn based tactics) and boring AF for the other 10% (who like turn based combat and find it too basic) and less than a total of 1h of 3D porn.
Will they finish the game? Yes, I think they will, but the final game will be a barely playable skeleton with 10% of the content they originally promised. Are there worse offenders who make more money while delivering less? Yes, absolutely. But that's the lamest excuse possible.
I also hope they finish it soon so they go back to making 3D animations. But I don't believe in magic.

PS: When 1 or 2 people leave the project, it's very likely those individuals were difficult to work with. When more than 50% leave, the problem is in management/HR. And if those individuals didn't leave, but were fired instead due to downsizing, the problem remains upstairs, not on the individuals that left.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Still dangling that June 2019 placeholder like it was realistic to make a 30 hour+ game in…a month. When the campaign ended in May, and they didn’t get the money til near the end of June.

They had to put a number there, so they could’ve easily thrown 2050 there, and it still shouldn’t have been taken seriously.

 

[Yojimbo543]

Still dangling that June 2019 placeholder like it was realistic to make a 30 hour+ game in…a month. When the campaign ended in May, and they didn’t get the money til near the end of June.

They had to put a number there, so they could’ve easily thrown 2050 there, and it still shouldn’t have been taken seriously.

As you didn't read it, I'll use caps for easier understanding,

THE PROJECT LAUNCHED ON MARCH, 24, 2019.

I didn't use any june placeholder. And the fact remains, it's been more than 3 1/2 years since launch and the game is still a beta missing lots of features included in the launch campaign

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

Still dangling that June 2019 placeholder like it was realistic to make a 30 hour+ game in…a month. When the campaign ended in May, and they didn’t get the money til near the end of June.

They had to put a number there, so they could’ve easily thrown 2050 there, and it still shouldn’t have been taken seriously.

Couple that optimistic number with their current struggles. I don't want to join the hatewagon (that would be bland) but signs are clear to me.

They jumped head-on into an ordeal they weren't prepared for. Worse yet - they don't seem to adapt to it well. People complained about their PR attitude in 2019 and do so now, 3+ years into development. Same goes for boring sex scenes not integrated into story or gameplay.

It seems to me they hardly learn from their own mistakes. I would like to be mistaken here but still had to share thought or two.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

As you didn't read it, I'll use caps for easier understanding,

THE PROJECT LAUNCHED ON MARCH, 24, 2019.

I didn't use any june placeholder. And the fact remains, it's been more than 3 1/2 years since launch and the game is still a beta missing lots of features included in the launch campaign

It launched the 23rd actually. I would know, it was my birthday and you’re the one that brought up the 2019 dates in the kickstarter page. Which I explained.

Secondly this isn’t a beta, you’re playing the actual game. The beta was a few months in 2019 and we only tested gameplay segments, seeing nothing of the story until the early access launch in 2021.

As far as missing things, that would be the backer dlc, which shouldn’t be a focus til the main story is done anyway, and devotion missions, which we already know are in progress.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Couple that optimistic number with their current struggles. I don't want to join the hatewagon (that would be bland) but signs are clear to me.

They jumped head-on into an ordeal they weren't prepared for. Worse yet - they don't seem to adapt to it well. People complained about their PR attitude in 2019 and do so now, 3+ years into development. Same goes for boring sex scenes not integrated into story or gameplay.

It seems to me they hardly learn from their own mistakes. I would like to be mistaken here but still had to share thought or two.

They already heard the feedback about sex and story. Thus we had a grid mission with cap and ela boning in the middle of it, an experimental scene with cap and Taron in the Fenix, and a giant torgy at the end of Sova’s arena fight. Think it’s fine to say they listened.

If you read the recent dev blog and Tibor’s personal one, they’ve mentioned that they’re looking to retool the side quests to also reward smut.

They know, but these things aren’t something that’ll be done in a single patch.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

They already heard the feedback about sex and story. Thus we had a grid mission with cap and ela boning in the middle of it, an experimental scene with cap and Taron in the Fenix, and a giant torgy at the end of Sova’s arena fight. Think it’s fine to say they listened.

If you read the recent dev blog and Tibor’s personal one, they’ve mentioned that they’re looking to retool the side quests to also reward smut.

They know, but these things aren’t something that’ll be done in a single patch.

You see, that's not something they should've been reminded of in the first place. In porn games scene integrations is such basic feature you'd think anyone would figure it out. Devs didn't, that's both surprising and disappointing. They are doing better and I respect that, yet it does not take away the fact they let the situation to become like this: bombarded with complains over the lack of basics. And it would be awhile till their integrate everything, meaning those complains aren't baseless even now, when fixes are on their way.

And don't understand me in a wrong way: this game is cool. Varied gameplay, nice characters and story, unique charm, some horny stuff as an icing. Game's main problem is...

ITS FANS. Yes, I've said that. Lemme elaborate before I look weird.

StudioFOW was famous for one thing: monster rape porn. Yes, monster rape, girls being sodomized by horsecocks and tentacles while their beg and scream. Kinky.

Not what this game is about, right? To developers' credits - they weren't hiding it. As well as heavy focus on lore, story and characters; not just porn.

Yet even when warned, fans - most likely subconsciously - expected something else. Horsecocks for days, half an hour long porn trips and such. Even when they are not admitting it, I know well they feel that way. I am not innocent either - that's why I dropped this game, even while admitting it is good.

At least, that was a big part of original backlash. Lately I've seen many people who seemingly support this game without care or elaborate knowledge on StudioFOW's original reputation. Back when the game was starting it was in big part about: "You see StudioFOW, you expect monsterfucking. Got no monsterfucking? Got mad!". And so was launched a chain reaction of negative feedback lingering to that day.

Not that there were no other reasons, but I don't think they are strictly game-related, more about how devs handle it.

But I hate to admit that this game is confusing. It sells like a porn game, its main shtick is basically everything else. If you dig it, fine. If not, you'll try to skip it straight to porn only to find out few unintegrated scenes that barely remind old glories of SFOW. And if you treat porn stuff as a reward for other parts of gameplay it would double disappoint you, because its porn is not that great and other parts of gameplay is probably much more enjoyable.

But I guess that the real part of the porn game was all the space ship we blown up along the way. Not that I against it but it is confusing as heck.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

You see, that's not something they should've been reminded of in the first place. In porn games scene integrations is such basic feature you'd think anyone would figure it out. Devs didn't, that's both surprising and disappointing. They are doing better and I respect that, yet it does not take away the fact they let the situation to become like this: bombarded with complains over the lack of basics. And it would be awhile till their integrate everything, meaning those complains aren't baseless even now, when fixes are on their way.

And don't understand me in a wrong way: this game is cool. Varied gameplay, nice characters and story, unique charm, some horny stuff as an icing. Game's main problem is...

ITS FANS. Yes, I've said that. Lemme elaborate before I look weird.

StudioFOW was famous for one thing: monster rape porn. Yes, monster rape, girls being sodomized by horsecocks and tentacles while their beg and scream. Kinky.

Not what this game is about, right? To developers' credits - they weren't hiding it. As well as heavy focus on lore, story and characters; not just porn.

Yet even when warned, fans - most likely subconsciously - expected something else. Horsecocks for days, half an hour long porn trips and such. Even when they are not admitting it, I know well they feel that way. I am not innocent either - that's why I dropped this game, even while admitting it is good.

At least, that was a big part of original backlash. Lately I've seen many people who seemingly support this game without care or elaborate knowledge on StudioFOW's original reputation. Back when the game was starting it was in big part about: "You see StudioFOW, you expect monsterfucking. Got no monsterfucking? Got mad!". And so was launched a chain reaction of negative feedback lingering to that day.

Not that there were no other reasons, but I don't think they are strictly game-related, more about how devs handle it.

But I hate to admit that this game is confusing. It sells like a porn game, its main shtick is basically everything else. If you dig it, fine. If not, you'll try to skip it straight to porn only to find out few unintegrated scenes that barely remind old glories of SFOW. And if you treat porn stuff as a reward for other parts of gameplay it would double disappoint you.

People that assumed it would be Kunoichi the game were bound to be disappointed. If you didn’t do your research, you were gonna miss the interviews, the statements that claimed this would be more on the vanilla side of things. It wouldn’t be non-con.

Kunoichi was one of their most popular works, but it wasn’t the sole genre they should be known for. Their comedy bits can be seen from the scout cameos until he was axed off. Mila Red Riding Hood was very much along the lines of comedy as what Subverse does.

If folks are that eager for the ‘dark’ content, they’re welcome to wait til post completion, there’s a big ol backlog of films they’ll be getting to afterwards.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

People that assumed it would be Kunoichi the game were bound to be disappointed. If you didn’t do your research, you were gonna miss the interviews, the statements that claimed this would be more on the vanilla side of things. It wouldn’t be non-con.

Kunoichi was one of their most popular works, but it wasn’t the sole genre they should be known for. Their comedy bits can be seen from the scout cameos until he was axed off. Mila Red Riding Hood was very much along the lines of comedy as what Subverse does.

If folks are that eager for the ‘dark’ content, they’re welcome to wait til post completion, there’s a big ol backlog of films they’ll be getting to afterwards.

The problem is: even when you knew for certain it won't be Kunoichi The Game you couldn't shake off that feeling. Your brain tells you "no" your heart tells you "yes", you know? Incredible how we trick ourselves sometimes.

Also - good point about MRRH. Exactly the type of humor Subverse is known for, a seed to grow into a tree, if you will.

And I really hope they'll return to their older ways (not necessarily alongside abandoning their current, of course) sometime in the future. They are true artists of ultra-violence.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

The problem is: even when you knew for certain it won't be Kunoichi The Game you couldn't shake off that feeling. Your brain tells you "no" your heart tells you "yes", you know? Incredible how we trick ourselves sometimes.

Also - good point about MRRH. Exactly the type of humor Subverse is known for, a seed to grow into a tree, if you will.

And I really hope they'll return to their older ways (not necessarily alongside abandoning their current, of course) sometime in the future. They are true artists of ultra-violence.

I mean it certainly has the big monster fugging, heck some scenes even use the big boy Bacchus from the end of Kunoichi 2, it’s just more consensual and not so mindbreak-y FOW stated they aimed to do something not so dark, not wanting to chance it being removed from steam.

The comedy is subjective, but it knows when to take a backseat when shit gets serious. This is about setting up a rebellion to overthrow a controlling empire of mind control powered abstinent aliens

And I wouldn’t worry about the films, fow knows what brought them their reputation. The game is an adventure, but it’d be silly to put all your eggs in one basket. The intention afterwards is to have a film and game division running, though given the trials of this one, wouldn’t surprise me if the next was much further away.

But hey we’ll have UE4 made films to look at in the meantime. Considering what they could with SFM, can only imagine how good they’ll look with an engine often used for the games themselves.

 

[GrandPaBrowning]

I mean it certainly has the big monster fugging, heck some scenes even use the big boy Bacchus from the end of Kunoichi 2, it’s just more consensual and not so mindbreak-y FOW stated they aimed to do something not so dark, not wanting to chance it being removed from steam.

The comedy is subjective, but it knows when to take a backseat when shit gets serious. This is about setting up a rebellion to overthrow a controlling empire of mind control powered abstinent aliens

And I wouldn’t worry about the films, fow knows what brought them their reputation. The game is an adventure, but it’d be silly to put all your eggs in one basket. The intention afterwards is to have a film and game division running, though given the trials of this one, wouldn’t surprise me if the next was much further away.

But hey we’ll have UE4 made films to look at in the meantime. Considering what they could with SFM, can only imagine how good they’ll look with an engine often used for the games themselves.

Yes, and Sova scenes with monsters are the only ones I could rate A+. Her update in general feels the most StudioFOW-y of all, and the one to fix the most mistakes. Nice to see progress, very nice.

As for the story - I think its another point of contention for some people. Its built around whole "rebel against totalitarianism" story template, which is a whole ass cliché at this point. Game gives it a good spin that feels fresh and all in all is well-done, very unique take, I'd say. But its hit-or-miss type of thing, you see: you either like this type of story or don't. I don't and even when I assume story and lore, and characters to be great and interesting, the whole gist doesn't make it for me, you know? I think it has something to do with how oversaturated we are with stories about overthrowing the evil government. I get it - game parodies them, and do it well, but sometimes you are just so overfed of certain theme, you can no longer stomach even a parody.

I also hope your optimism is well-place and we see them both finishing Subverse and going back to moviemaking. Right now their whole: "half the team have dropped, have a nice day" seems like a management issue - and that's is the kind of issue that gets in a way of everything.