Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.0] [Studio Fow]

2.90 star(s) 259 Votes
Discussion Reviews (259)
Joshua Tree

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
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For those that keep argue what kind of game it is, the 21 min mark here would possible interest them.

 
Deleted member 324588

Deleted member 324588

Engaged Member
Dec 9, 2017
2,738
6,862
arpaschad said:
Results matter though... not some circle-jerking praising the game for what it will be...
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A dev saying what their own game will become is circle-jerking?

Also if results matter, why are so many people just writing it off now when its just a 0.1. Maybe watch it complete first?
 
T

TK8000

Active Member
Game Developer
Jul 9, 2017
759
3,215
SomeOriginalUsername said:
but virtually nothing else was the same. The Subverse UV Map had far more vertices (represented by all those lines you see), it had several additional meshes that the Honey Select model didn't have (for example, the vagina is a separate mesh in Subverse, but in Honey Select it's a part of the body and has much lower mesh density because Illusion never intended it to be seen past a mosaic), and proportions on certain parts are immediately recognizable as different (you can see in the UV Maps that Subverse's hands are actually like hands, while Honey Select's look like fingers sprouting out of the forearm).
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Hello! As one of the pioneers using Honey Select to create derivative games, I was always kind of fascinated by this subject and when I found out that Subverse could be using assets from Illusion, I decided to do a little research.

As for UV-Maps, if what the Russian user posted is true (on the first pages of this topic), then unfortunately they are the same UV-Maps. The fact that they added more vertices does not mean much. There are mods for hi-res bodies in Honey Select that use the same UV-Map as the original bodies, but with more vertices added.

The position of the vagina is also not so important. Honey Select mods often use another part of the UV Map for the vagina (just like the Subverse guys apparently did).

About the hands, I also went to look more closely. The first evidence is an alleged image showing the hands of both games having exactly the same geometry. However, this can be easily forged. What cannot be forged, however, is the end result and I am 99.9% sure that Subverse models use the same hand as Honey Select. This does not prove that the Subverse guys stole the model, however. They may simply have used the same asset library as Illusion or something.

What makes me a little incredulous in this whole story is that to export the Honey Select models and use them in a 3D program you just need to follow a 15 minute tutorial on Youtube. The modder community has already done all the heavy work so Honey Select is currently the laziest option possible, the thing you choose if you have 0 dollars and need a model ready in less than two days. This is very strange because Subverse is a $2 million game that took years to be made. I don't believe they would choose such a lazy option when they can pay, let's say, $500 on high-quality base models ready to be used in 3D games/Unreal Engine 4. It is inconceivable to me that they needed to waste time stealing assets from Honey Select, unless they were tricked by the artist who made the game's models.
 
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I

IG88a

Newbie
Oct 9, 2019
84
367
TK8000 said:
Hello! As one of the pioneers using Honey Select to create derivative games, I was always kind of fascinated by this subject and when I found out that Subverse could be using assets from Illusion, I decided to do a little research.

As for UV-Maps, if what the Russian user posted is true (on the first pages of this topic), then unfortunately they are the same UV-Maps. The fact that they added more vertices does not mean much. There are mods for hi-res bodies in Honey Select that use the same UV-Map as the original bodies, but with more vertices added.

The position of the vagina is also not so important. Honey Select mods often use another part of the UV Map for the vagina (just like the Subverse guys apparently did).

About the hands, I also went to look more closely. The first evidence is an alleged image showing the hands of both games having exactly the same geometry. However, this can be easily forged. What cannot be forged, however, is the end result and I am 99.9% sure that Subverse models use the same hand as Honey Select. This does not prove that the Subverse guys stole the model, however. They may simply have used the same asset library as Illusion or something.
Click to expand...
Quality post. Very damning.

To export the Honey Select models and use them in a 3D program you just need to follow a 15 minute tutorial on Youtube. The modder community has already done all the heavy work so Honey Select is currently the laziest option possible, the thing you choose if you have 0 dollars and need a model ready in less than two days. This is very strange because Subverse is a $2 million game that took years to be made. I don't believe they would choose such a lazy option when they can pay, let's say, $500 on high-quality base models ready to be used in 3D games/Unreal Engine 4. It is inconceivable to me that they needed to waste time stealing assets from Honey Select, unless they were tricked by the artist who made the game's models.
Click to expand...
The models predate the 2 mil, so view things through the lens of their budget when they were requesting ~60k for 3 of them to live off ramen for a few months to make the basegame. This was bushleague from the start. A few posters have alleged that they could have been defrauded by a modeler using this lazy shortcut, but it wouldn't surprise me if they knew exactly what was being done even if this snowballs and they deny it.

I'm pretty sure Illusion is the source of the models on honey select and that everything in their games are inhouse. Considering that, the fact that certain parts are clearly Illusion IP, FOW and subverse are fucked. Doesn't matter if they knew or if they were defrauded, Sword of Damocles is a C&D and lawsuit over IP theft. Everything fruit of the poison tree style about subverse, the prerendered cutscenes, the rigging system, etc. is built on IP theft.
 
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2.90 star(s) 259 Votes