VN Ren'Py Summer Scent [v0.6.4a] [The Naughty Captain]

[The Naughty Captain]

Yea.. That's one of the things that annoyed me too.. And in that they keep talking about 'the purple one' while your trying to be intimate with them.. Gotta compete with a fucking sex toy..

There isn't any real competition. It's clearly stated that Jack is better than the toy.

Yeah and Cassie telling him that the toy was better, fair enough for a first time but still. (P.S. No one needs comment on this, I've read Captain's comments, I'm just venting my feeling it would be dishearting to hear, but I'm sure he'll improve)

I don't remember writing anything like this. If we're talking about what happens in Cassie's bedroom, it's not the toy that is better, but Eve, and Cassie already knows that it's only temporary.

And there was the breakfast scene where they talked about 'kissing and touching' but we could clearly tell they weren't telling all the details.. Like they don't trust the MC at all.. Why do they want the be in a relationship without mutual trust?

It's not about trust. It's about shame.
It's something they need time to overcome.

 

[1337Bob]

To be honest, sometimes I think about getting rid of the points completely and having more key choices instead.
But that would mean no more liberty in the choices. Right now you need 70 points out of, at least, 85 available.
Often, the problem isn't the points, but the key choices that the players are missing.

From the feedback I recieved so far, most of the players who got the bad end on the throuple path, didn't talk to Cassie in the lingerie shop.
Then they're usually missing the "choose none" option.
Then they prefer licking Cassie's pussy rather than talking to her.
The points are usually the last thing that send them into scene 7

Believe me, I'm thinking about it very seriously.

Hi The Naughty Captain, I just want to say you've made a great game. The multiple and overlapping paths are interesting and ambitious, the characters are well-developed and the sex scenes are super hot. I particularly appreciate the softsub/lovesub route. While I personally prefer the love-both route, softsub is something that is woefully underexplored in the genre of erotic VNs. Most VNs make a hard distinction between love and sub routes, and I love to see more of this grey area in-between. There's something unique about wilful submission - submission out of love, not manipulation.

However, the points system is the most obvious and largest issue with the game. The "rack up as many points as possible" game design for erotic VNs/games is one of the worst, only second to the "pointless sandbox to grind stats". I believe it's frankly an outdated system. Players aren't deciding "what choice do I want to make, or how will this affect the story?" or even "is this how I want to play the character?" but "which one gives me more points?" I saw in an older post you said you want people to play the game without a walkthrough. A large points system is a poor way to go about it because you're literally gamifying the system. So of course people are going to use a walkthrough to optimise points (god forbid you miss out on a scene by 1 point), or at the very least, liberal and excessive use of rollback. I will add you're hardly the only game to have this issue.

This is not to say you should have no points at all. The complaint is where almost every "choice" is just picking the dialogue option that gives more points, and you're pushing hundreds of points. A very minor points system for more important actions works fine. Compare a MrDots game where you get so many points it's meaningless and adds nothing to the game, to a PhillyGames game where each point is meaningful. Healthy use of flags is great as well like you suggest (though you've already clearly got some in place).

I don't know about making any changes retroactively as it's a lot of work. I think everyone would just prefer you keep moving forward and apply the changes in the future. If you remove most of the points then you make most of the choices completely pointless. I know some games have "graduated" their points systems where once you've reached a certain point in the story/crossed a threshold points don't really matter only specific choices do.

I'll end by saying I know I'm being critical, that I'm being an armchair VN developer, and that's true, but this is my honest, genuine advice to improve the game, and I recognise that producing any kind of media including an erotic VN is a lot of work, what you have already accomplished is a great thing and well above the standard affair of VNs that can be found on this site. Keep up the good work.

 

[Deleted member 1399911]

There isn't any real competition. It's clearly stated that Jack is better than the toy.

When was that? Iirc Jack came first and Cassie was going to tell him to stop, but forced himself to keep going so she would.

Pretty sure if he was better, she would have came first imo.

It's not about trust. It's about shame.
It's something they need time to overcome.

The shame of what?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Yea.. That's one of the things that annoyed me too.. And in that they keep talking about 'the purple one' while your trying to be intimate with them.. Gotta compete with a fucking sex toy..

There isn't any real competition. It's clearly stated that Jack is better than the toy.

Yeah and Cassie telling him that the toy was better, fair enough for a first time but still. (P.S. No one needs comment on this, I've read Captain's comments, I'm just venting my feeling it would be dishearting to hear, but I'm sure he'll improve)

I don't remember writing anything like this. If we're talking about what happens in Cassie's bedroom, it's not the toy that is better, but Eve, and Cassie already knows that it's only temporary.

+MythicJoker✶+ Naxos
It's clearly stated Jack was better than "the purple one".



He also did make Cassie cum and she "came hard".



As far him cumming before Cassie is concerned, remember that he is a virgin and thus inexperienced, so much so that I believe he said was close to cumming just from having Eve kiss his dick. His excitement, anticipation, and lack of stamina all contributed to him cumming before Cassie, plus it's basic knowledge that guys typically cum more easily than women when it comes to sex, so Jack is therefore not untypical for the average guy.

So it doesn't really matter whether Cassie may have some experience with a toy because it doesn't necessarily mean she's developed better stamina than him, because at the end of the day, he's both a virgin and a guy so him cumming that quickly is not unsurprising or even unusual.

 

[Deleted member 1399911]

+MythicJoker✶+ Naxos
It's clearly stated Jack was better than "the purple one".

View attachment 1009367 View attachment 1009368 View attachment 1009369 View attachment 1009370 View attachment 1009371

He also did make Cassie cum and she "came hard".

View attachment 1009372 View attachment 1009373 View attachment 1009374 View attachment 1009375

As far him cumming before Cassie is concerned, remember that he is a virgin and thus inexperienced, so much so that I believe he said was close to cumming just from having Eve kiss his dick. His excitement, anticipation, and lack of stamina all contributed to him cumming before Cassie, plus it's basic knowledge that guys typically cum more easily than women when it comes to sex, so Jack is therefore not untypical for the average guy.

So it doesn't really matter whether Cassie may have some experience with a toy because it doesn't necessarily mean she's developed better stamina than him, because at the end of the day, he's both a virgin and a guy so him cumming that quickly is not unsurprising or even unusual.

Huh.. My bad.. Must have missed the last one about the dildo.. Still disappointed though since Eve got nothing in the 'threesome'.. Since Jack had to try hard to please Cassie in the end.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Huh.. My bad.. Must have missed the last one about the dildo.. Still disappointed though since Eve got nothing in the 'threesome'.. Since Jack had to try hard to please Cassie in the end.

I'm disappointed too, but I guess this is the definition of "saving the best for last". Plus, it's probably good for him to get this experience under his belt with Cassie because with Eve, you'd want it to be even better and really special between the two of them. So if he can last longer and please her better because he did Cassie first, then that'll be fine.

 

[Deleted member 1399911]

I'm disappointed too, but I guess this is the definition of "saving the best for last". Plus, it's probably good for him to get this experience under his belt with Cassie because with Eve, you'd want it to be even better and really special between the two of them. So if he can last longer and please her better because he did Cassie first, then that'll be fine.

True, might have been better if they did more then just one hand job before this scene too.

Maybe a few hand jobs and blow jobs would have given him better performance..

 

[Holy Bacchus]

True, might have been better if they did more then just one hand job before this scene too.

Maybe a few hand jobs and blow jobs would have given him better performance..

He would have blown his load with the first handjob and probably would have been spent after that which means no sex.

Remember; virgin. He doesn't have the experience or stamina to go multiple rounds which is more in-line with reality than it is with typical AVN theory that the MCs are sex Gods capable of cumming a dozen times in copious amounts without tiring.

 

[Deleted member 1399911]

He would have blown his load with the first handjob and probably would have been spent after that which means no sex.

Remember; virgin. He doesn't have the experience or stamina to go multiple rounds which is more in-line with reality than it is with typical AVN theory that the MCs are sex Gods capable of cumming a dozen times in copious amounts without tiring.

Lol... I said "BEFORE" the scene, you know.. Maybe the day before? Cassie could have done something, Eve could have done something..

They kind of rushed into the sex.

 

[DA22]

He would have blown his load with the first handjob and probably would have been spent after that which means no sex.

Remember; virgin. He doesn't have the experience or stamina to go multiple rounds which is more in-line with reality than it is with typical AVN theory that the MCs are sex Gods capable of cumming a dozen times in copious amounts without tiring.

While I would agree on the stamina aspect and that nervousness due to first time might even make that worse. I would expect a pretty fit 18 yo male that has not drunk alcohol to be able to recoup pretty fast with that much stimulation around him and besides even so it is never too early to learn you also have fingers and a mouth to please your girlfriends when needed.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Lol... I said "BEFORE" the scene, you know.. Maybe the day before? Cassie could have done something, Eve could have done something..

They kind of rushed into the sex.

Well, Cassie did give him a handjob, remember?

They did rush into sex, but that's what you do at that age. Foreplay and practice to build stamina isn't something you really think about or consider.

While I would agree on the stamina aspect and that nervousness due to first time might even make that worse. I would expect a pretty fit 18 yo male that has not drunk alcohol to be able to recoup pretty fast with that much stimulation around him and besides even so it is never too early to learn you also have fingers and a mouth to please your girlfriends when needed.

He was out of puff doing 10 push-ups, so we know he's not got much stamina.

 

[Deleted member 1399911]

Well, Cassie did give him a handjob, remember?

They did rush into sex, but that's what you do at that age. Foreplay and practice to build stamina isn't something you really think about or consider.

Exactly like DA22 said.. He should have had way more stamina then he did..

While I would agree on the stamina aspect and that nervousness due to first time might even make that worse. I would expect a pretty fit 18 yo male that has not drunk alcohol to be able to recoup pretty fast with that much stimulation around him and besides even so it is never too early to learn you also have fingers and a mouth to please your girlfriends when needed.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Exactly like DA22 said.. He should have had way more stamina then he did..

Being 18 and looking fit and healthy doesn't mean you are or that you have great stamina, it just means you've got a good constitution. The fact that he got so tired out doing 10 push-ups shows just how unfit he is, so him basically passing out after he came came twice and pushed himself further in order to make Cassie cum seems quite justified.

 

[Naxos]

None of my comments are a complaint or critisim. I'm just sharing what I felt or thought while playing.

I don't remember writing anything like this. If we're talking about what happens in Cassie's bedroom, it's not the toy that is better, but Eve, and Cassie already knows that it's only temporary.

I'm talking about Cassie + MC solo for the first time. He ask's so which was better, him or the toy with Eve... Cassie says please don't ask me that, ask me anything but that. ... i.e Eve + toy was better. She confirms it by saying Eve has the advantage of being a girl and knowing virginas better. It probably impacted me more because it came right after the confession that Cassie and Eve where doing things behind is back. How I read that whole scene (not a complaint, just how I read it between the lines) Cassie: "Oh I lied when I said I was a virgin, your sister took it and I'm fucking her. I guess I have to stop now."
Mc: "Who was better."
Cassie "Don't ask me because I don't want to say the truth that she was"

I'm sure that's not how you wrote it or intended it, it's just how I interpreted it all on first play through.

+MythicJoker✶+ Naxos
It's clearly stated Jack was better than "the purple one".

View attachment 1009367 View attachment 1009368 View attachment 1009369 View attachment 1009370 View attachment 1009371

He also did make Cassie cum and she "came hard".

View attachment 1009372 View attachment 1009373 View attachment 1009374 View attachment 1009375

As far him cumming before Cassie is concerned, remember that he is a virgin and thus inexperienced, so much so that I believe he said was close to cumming just from having Eve kiss his dick. His excitement, anticipation, and lack of stamina all contributed to him cumming before Cassie, plus it's basic knowledge that guys typically cum more easily than women when it comes to sex, so Jack is therefore not untypical for the average guy.

So it doesn't really matter whether Cassie may have some experience with a toy because it doesn't necessarily mean she's developed better stamina than him, because at the end of the day, he's both a virgin and a guy so him cumming that quickly is not unsurprising or even unusual.

Was not referring to that as I play the Cassie love + Eve sub love route.

On another note, the activities the girls got upto before without him sound rather different (at least that's how it came across to me) depending on the routes. After seeing talk about the throuple and bad endings on the last few pages I decided to try the love/love route out. In the Cassie love (without Eve love) it sounds like they where quite more involved and active than it does when they explain it on the love-love route. So far only as far as Kelly arriving.

It's also interesting because unlike other games, you don't get to see what the girls are thinking or feeling other than what the MC sees and hears. So that made me think, considering my play of the other route first, when she caught them and was doing the whole talk in the dark bedroom that she was a grade A hypocritical bitch, (not to discount what the MC and Eve did to her) because in my mind she'd done the exact same thing to him with Eve. As I say thought that is only because my first knowledge of that came from the solo confession of Cassie which made it sound like they where a lot more involved than it does on the love love route.

Again, none of this is critisim or complaint, just sharing what I've thought of it.

If I'd had a complaint it would on Cassie getting dom points for things that seemed out of place, but knowing that they are meaningless if you don't actively go down the femdom route rendered that complaint meaningless.

 

[DA22]

Being 18 and looking fit and healthy doesn't mean you are or that you have great stamina, it just means you've got a good constitution. The fact that he got so tired out doing 10 push-ups shows just how unfit he is, so him basically passing out after he came came twice and pushed himself further in order to make Cassie cum seems quite justified.

Well there is a difference between aerobic fitness and being good at doing push-ups, which mostly uses the muscles in top of your body (which unless you train them specifically do not tend to best trained ones anyway), not exactly the muscles you need or use for sex unless you do some specific positions.

Still you would expect an 18yo to recoup pretty fast from that exertion unless really unfit and then he should look different as he does. Even then with that amount of stimulation around him he could easily get some stirrings and blood flow to certain parts after a while and there are more options as missionary with a male on top and other tools you can use as a male as I referred to earlier. Yeah ten times is unreasonable but two to three times with some rest at that age?

 

[Shakril]

I would need help with the Kelly path.
My first two choices for her, when i do them i get to 10 Aff, but the third option is just greyed out. I dont think i have missed something so i kinda am lost here. So essentially i need a walkthrough for Kelly.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Well there is a difference between aerobic fitness and being good at doing push-ups, which mostly uses the muscles in top of your body (which unless you train them specifically do not tend to best trained ones anyway), not exactly the muscles you need or use for sex unless you do some specific positions.

Still you would expect an 18yo to recoup pretty fast from that exertion unless really unfit and then he should look different as he does. Even then with that amount of stimulation around him he could easily get some stirrings and blood flow to certain parts after a while and there are more options as missionary with a male on top and other tools you can use as a male as I referred to earlier. Yeah ten times is unreasonable but two to three times with some rest at that age?

It's not about the muscle groups being used, it's about the exertion of physical effort. Whether you're doing push-ups, jogging, lifting weights, or thrusting your hips back and forth, if you don't have the physical stamina and endurance to be able to perform these tasks for a long time without expending too much energy, then you're going to get tired quickly.

So Jack not being able to do 10 push-ups without collapsing and him not being able to go for more than one round of sex are one and the same thing, regardless of what stimulation is around him. Eve could have got completely naked and started sucking his cock after he had sex with Cassie and he would still have likely passed out because he had no energy left to continue.

 

[DA22]

It's not about the muscle groups being used, it's about the exertion of physical effort. Whether you're doing push-ups, jogging, lifting weights, or thrusting your hips back and forth, if you don't have the physical stamina and endurance to be able to perform these tasks for a long time without expending too much energy, then you're going to get tired quickly.

So Jack not being able to do 10 push-ups without collapsing and him not being able to go for more than one round of sex are one and the same thing, regardless of what stimulation is around him. Eve could have got completely naked and started sucking his cock after he had sex with Cassie and he would still have likely passed out because he had no energy left to continue.

There you are wrong, even if you are pretty fit overall and you start overexerting a few heavy muscle groups like your shoulders are, you will tire much faster as you normally do. Especially if do not watch your breathing well at same time, been there after I picked up workouts again, while had been staying fit with things like walking and running and such. Could easily go an hour with things that used leg and butt muscles, but things like pushups? Not for a while until certain muscles had been trained up with other exercises again so I was able to do the pushups as they should be done without abusing rest of muscle groups.

 

[The Naughty Captain]

Hi The Naughty Captain, I just want to say you've made a great game. The multiple and overlapping paths are interesting and ambitious, the characters are well-developed and the sex scenes are super hot. I particularly appreciate the softsub/lovesub route. While I personally prefer the love-both route, softsub is something that is woefully underexplored in the genre of erotic VNs. Most VNs make a hard distinction between love and sub routes, and I love to see more of this grey area in-between. There's something unique about wilful submission - submission out of love, not manipulation.

However, the points system is the most obvious and largest issue with the game. The "rack up as many points as possible" game design for erotic VNs/games is one of the worst, only second to the "pointless sandbox to grind stats". I believe it's frankly an outdated system. Players aren't deciding "what choice do I want to make, or how will this affect the story?" or even "is this how I want to play the character?" but "which one gives me more points?" I saw in an older post you said you want people to play the game without a walkthrough. A large points system is a poor way to go about it because you're literally gamifying the system. So of course people are going to use a walkthrough to optimise points (god forbid you miss out on a scene by 1 point), or at the very least, liberal and excessive use of rollback. I will add you're hardly the only game to have this issue.

This is not to say you should have no points at all. The complaint is where almost every "choice" is just picking the dialogue option that gives more points, and you're pushing hundreds of points. A very minor points system for more important actions works fine. Compare a MrDots game where you get so many points it's meaningless and adds nothing to the game, to a PhillyGames game where each point is meaningful. Healthy use of flags is great as well like you suggest (though you've already clearly got some in place).

I don't know about making any changes retroactively as it's a lot of work. I think everyone would just prefer you keep moving forward and apply the changes in the future. If you remove most of the points then you make most of the choices completely pointless. I know some games have "graduated" their points systems where once you've reached a certain point in the story/crossed a threshold points don't really matter only specific choices do.

I'll end by saying I know I'm being critical, that I'm being an armchair VN developer, and that's true, but this is my honest, genuine advice to improve the game, and I recognise that producing any kind of media including an erotic VN is a lot of work, what you have already accomplished is a great thing and well above the standard affair of VNs that can be found on this site. Keep up the good work.

I agree that there is a problem with the point system. And it's something I need to adress. I don't know how I'll do it though.

When was that? Iirc Jack came first and Cassie was going to tell him to stop, but forced himself to keep going so she would.

Pretty sure if he was better, she would have came first imo.


The shame of what?

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If the "he came first" is so important to you, I'm sorry.


The shame of "playing" with each other.

While I would agree on the stamina aspect and that nervousness due to first time might even make that worse. I would expect a pretty fit 18 yo male that has not drunk alcohol to be able to recoup pretty fast with that much stimulation around him and besides even so it is never too early to learn you also have fingers and a mouth to please your girlfriends when needed.

And that's exactly what happens.

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None of my comments are a complaint or critisim. I'm just sharing what I felt or thought while playing.

I'm talking about Cassie + MC solo for the first time. He ask's so which was better, him or the toy with Eve... Cassie says please don't ask me that, ask me anything but that. ... i.e Eve + toy was better. She confirms it by saying Eve has the advantage of being a girl and knowing virginas better. It probably impacted me more because it came right after the confession that Cassie and Eve where doing things behind is back. How I read that whole scene (not a complaint, just how I read it between the lines) Cassie: "Oh I lied when I said I was a virgin, your sister took it and I'm fucking her. I guess I have to stop now."
Mc: "Who was better."
Cassie "Don't ask me because I don't want to say the truth that she was"

I'm sure that's not how you wrote it or intended it, it's just how I interpreted it all on first play through.



Was not referring to that as I play the Cassie love + Eve sub love route.

On another note, the activities the girls got upto before without him sound rather different (at least that's how it came across to me) depending on the routes. After seeing talk about the throuple and bad endings on the last few pages I decided to try the love/love route out. In the Cassie love (without Eve love) it sounds like they where quite more involved and active than it does when they explain it on the love-love route. So far only as far as Kelly arriving.

It's also interesting because unlike other games, you don't get to see what the girls are thinking or feeling other than what the MC sees and hears. So that made me think, considering my play of the other route first, when she caught them and was doing the whole talk in the dark bedroom that she was a grade A hypocritical bitch, (not to discount what the MC and Eve did to her) because in my mind she'd done the exact same thing to him with Eve. As I say thought that is only because my first knowledge of that came from the solo confession of Cassie which made it sound like they where a lot more involved than it does on the love love route.

Again, none of this is critisim or complaint, just sharing what I've thought of it.

If I'd had a complaint it would on Cassie getting dom points for things that seemed out of place, but knowing that they are meaningless if you don't actively go down the femdom route rendered that complaint meaningless.

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As always, more about that in future releases!

 

[patachoucs]

Couple of things after reading some posts.

Regarding "Jack betraying Eve after saying she'd be first". Do you understand Cassie almost left away (to go straight to scene 7) and that's the reason why he goes for her first ?

Second his stamina... Did you guys ever had an orgasm ?? You know how you get tired after right ? And the number one rule is to never ever close your eyes cause you generally go straight to deep contented sleep, which typically upset the girlfriend ? Well guess what ? Jack just had two of those in limited time, on top of it being his first experience, on top of him being super excited and stressed because he wanted to satisfy both his girlfriends. Give him a slack ! And he's soooo gonna pay for the beginner's mistake he just did by falling asleep, you can bet Eve is gonna be petty and make fun of him.
He nonetheless managed to give Cassie a big orgasm which is no small feat for two inexperienced teenagers.

Also, re : the girls not being virgins. Of course they are, just because you play with a toy doesn't mean you're not a virgin. Or would you say a man is not a virgin if he masturbated ?? And it's all about perception too. They do consider themselves virgins. Because they're (mostly) straight girls, and I don't think would date or have sex with another girl. They were closer because of their unique bond, and the circonstances around them being bullied. So they fooled around a bit. But it should be pretty obvious they both had something for Jack for a long time, too (Cassie showing off the bikini on the first day is a pretty obvious tell).
And that they didn't consider themselves in a relationship or even having sex. They experimented, more like.