I have to say, one looked like bella, the other like the crying woman psychiatrist in summer gone. Even the one with 2 colored hair looked familiar. Guess I need to play them directly after each other, to not get confused... Guess it's difficult with only 1 braincell...Well, the young adult Katie from WIAB appears as a middle-aged woman in SG. I'll let you draw the conclusion from there. Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together should be able to figure that one out.
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I don't blame you. With pretty much every woman in both games capable of winning the Miss Universe pageant, the sensory overload makes it easy to get confused. But the upside is, you have a totally legitimate reason to play them again. Also, pay attention to the names and dialogs, especially in SG, and you'll see lots of name droppings and hints that references back to WIAB.
Now go forth and conquer <your favorite LI>, newbie!
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Now just where did I say it's an issue? No, I didn't? Ok good. Now that we are all clear and on the same page, moving right along...Not seeing the issue.....
BruceWayne123
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I read your parentage theories for the last couple of pages and decided to give you my own: Nika is Katie's son and Nami is Zoey's daughter. From the whole book club scene I got a vibe that Katie was there for her own personal reasons, especially from her conversation with Emilia. It seemed like she was about to reveal it but the scene was cut there. I also think that Zoey is dead and that is part of the reason why the kids were not rised by their parents and ended up with Nojiko. Who is the father? I don't have theory on that. It could be Willy or someone else. My theory may be completly wrong but it is fun to speculate when we have to wait for updates.
Doomyk
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I thought about the possibility that one of Leia's girls in the club is Najiko.
zxcwwwvwww
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Interesting theory.
Of course, assuming Nojiko did become Nika and Nami's guardian to protect/shield them - what reason did they need protection/shielding? Is it because of the big I word, something like a criminal turf war, or did their parents really die? What reason are Nika and Nami still being shielded now that they have come of age? What is Nojiko's connection to the characters in WIAB? The other head-scratching element is how many people in SG know the truth (whatever that may be) about Nika and Nami?
Katie definitely had an interest in Nami (and Nika) and it seemed to be her motivation for attending that particular meeting of the book club. An important point to remember about Katie being forewarned is that Nami arranged in advance to attend the meet. Nika attended unannounced at the last possible minute.
If a deceased Zoey Holgerston is Nami's paternal mother, why did the Holgerston family not take in Nami upon Zoey's death?
Fun Shaundi
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As I stated in the SG and WiAB theories thread, Scarlett (from WiaB) is Nojiko's old Boss at the hospital. Whether Nojiko was also involved in Scarlett's drug business is unknown, but if Nika and Nami are Zanes, I can see Scarlett asking Nojiko to take care of them if they were in danger.
The fact that Emilio was so interested in Nika is interesting as well.
I assume it's the recycling of models.
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Good point about Nojiko/Scarlet.
The impression I got from Emilio (in SG): he was solely concerned with Bella's wellbeing and requested a background check on Nika (MC) purely because of his association with Bella. If he had any other motivation, it wasn't apparent.
ADDENDA - Emilio
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BobTheDuck
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Simplest thing is to agree the Noji is shielding them. She's at very least obviously shielding Nika and Nami from knowing the movers and shakers of the town. So she is doing that. The reasons could be parentage, in which case there is deliberated distance chosen by the parents, whether to hide genetics or simply abandoned; compassionate reasons - if their parents are in fact dead, which then branches to accidental death or 'accidental' death for involvement is events we don't know about yet or collateral damage of same events. We still have the scene where Nika mentions remembering his mum reading, so the event wasn't immediate abandonment or purely seeking to hide the children, unless the person Nika remembers is just the first 'foster' parent who wasn't subtle enough and was uncovered. I think we can reasonably assume foul play - but if the parents/first foster parents were taken out deliberately, that left the kids untouched. It wouldn't be hard to notice them being fostered out to Noji, who is known by the movers and shakers - so the kids weren't the target, or it was just an accident.
Long winded way to say - this means that the Zane's probably view the parentage as inconsequential, more like an obligation to palm off. I don't think it's something like Luke and Leia being hidden from the Empire, but it's possible.
If Zoey is Nami's mum, I could understand Katie wanting to see how her girlfriend's daughter was growing up. The Holgerson's had something happen - Stefan is polite and well nice in WiaB. Something made him a jerk, and raised his son to be a jerk - maybe if this theory holds water, Zoey was badly affected by her time with the Zane's and never got her cuddly toys made. Maybe Stefan and Zoey have an argument, and he takes the whole family business, cuts her out. Then the heirloom, could be given to Nami...
This is an excellent theory. Or not a direct boss but part of the hierachy making her life hard. HR isn't anyone's boss directly, but damn they make work difficult to get done. Noji does mention the pressures of work multiple times and the people she has to work with being the problem.
The Emilio thing I think he is suspicious by nature, but it really depends on who Nika and Nami's parent were as to whether they'd be on his radar. Although, with Noji having a history with Katie, the Petrovas, Amber, Emilia, and now Nick (who has connections to the Holgersons via Vanessa (it would be strange Noji isn't on his radar automatically, she's got too many degrees of connection to the Zane's to go unnoticed, so Nika should already be on the radar. It could just be a way to deal with the exposition of the scene.
I originally assumed Nojiko/Nika/Nami, Summer and her family, and Nia simply lived in the western part of the city where they and the ZPR campus are now (Mila: "Where are you two from?" Nika: "We went to a high school way in the west.").
But as people have pointed out, the cabin where Nika and Summer walked to is a six-hour drive away from where they are now. (Nika: "She wants to visit the cabin with me." Nami: "The cabin? The one deep in the woods?" Nika: "Yeah, the one where... you know." Nojiko: "Oh, that's a six hour drive away.")
Thus, the "in the west" wasn't the western side of town, it was another distant town altogether. This suggests Nojiko either got the children the hell out of dodge or she was given care of them partly because she lived so far away. In both cases, those movers and shakers wouldn't notice Nika and Nami being fostered by her.
The Cyrus household rooms in the Summer flashbacks aren't the same house as their current rooms. It's not clear how long after Summer disappeared the Cyrus family moved to their current residence.
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BobTheDuck
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True, but now they're back in dodge, going to the uni run by ZPR (maybe some strings pulled?) and Nojis been hanging out with the ZPR royalty Emilia, clearly knows lots about the Zanes, hanging out at a bookclub Katie and Sasha goes to is hardly hiding. Maybe it's safe now, and has been for a while, but why would Noji uproot and go back? The only reason I can assume is because where they lived Nika couldn't get the kind of care required, as he went to the hospital in Wollust with the collapsed lung/violent incident - the implication is he didn't attend all of school because of that, and now is at college - so at some point they had to commute to out west or to visit him at the hospital. Which makes me wonder - how long did Noji work at the hospital? A six hour commute is just not feasible. But if she moved to get out of attention, but kept her job, Nika and Nami would've basically been fending for themselves most of the time with such a long commute. Does this mean her current hospital job is only since moving back? So the Scarlet theory wouldn't work in that case.
We assume the cabin was near where they lived, but what if Summer and Nika had run away? My guess is the cabin is further away than the 'out west' school mentioned. The dream sequence doesn't really give clues in that sense ie things mentioned in dreams aren't necessarily true. Clearly the flowers didn't happen - unless they were the plants we saw in WiaB
and the spiders might now be a memory but a weird conflation of the bug bois in the games they used to play. Dreams are montages at best.So maybe they didn't get out of dodge but went to the outskirts.
It's inferred Nika and Summer would walk home from the cabin but it got too dark and they didn't want to walk through the woods at night (assuming Nika's dream is a fair representation of what really happened). He dreams about their conversations, where Summer was going on holiday with her family the following day. Everything in the dream points to them spending time together within walking distance of their homes, rather than eloping to some random place six hours away.True, but now they're back in dodge, going to the uni run by ZPR (maybe some strings pulled?) and Nojis been hanging out with the ZPR royalty Emilia, clearly knows lots about the Zanes, hanging out at a bookclub Katie and Sasha goes to is hardly hiding. Maybe it's safe now, and has been for a while, but why would Noji uproot and go back? The only reason I can assume is because where they lived Nika couldn't get the kind of care required, as he went to the hospital in Wollust with the collapsed lung/violent incident - the implication is he didn't attend all of school because of that, and now is at college - so at some point they had to commute to out west or to visit him at the hospital. Which makes me wonder - how long did Noji work at the hospital? A six hour commute is just not feasible. But if she moved to get out of attention, but kept her job, Nika and Nami would've basically been fending for themselves most of the time with such a long commute. Does this mean her current hospital job is only since moving back? So the Scarlet theory wouldn't work in that case.
We assume the cabin was near where they lived, but what if Summer and Nika had run away? My guess is the cabin is further away than the 'out west' school mentioned. The dream sequence doesn't really give clues in that sense ie things mentioned in dreams aren't necessarily true. Clearly the flowers didn't happen - unless they were the plants we saw in WiaB
So maybe they didn't get out of dodge but went to the outskirts.
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BobTheDuck
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I'm taking that dialogue as being dream sequence stuff, like when you dream you can jump and suddenly your taking strides athat are kilometers long, or you turn a corner and are on the next street, which in real life is in a different city. We already know that dream Summer doesn't talk with Nika honestly - the immersion gets broken when Nika realises things don't make sense.
If the cabin is 6 hours away, either Noji commutes for 6 hours to work at the hospital while they're in school, or Noji doesn't work at the hospital at that time, or the cabin is not in actual walking distance - it's just the way the dream worked, or they lived halfway between the cabin and Wollust. I don't remeber there being a sense of Noji having a different job before working at the hospital though, and it's a position requiring training. Noji talks about wishing she'd tried to start her own practice, but feels it's too late now - so I assume she got the job with the hospital as a career.
Also, the violent incident took Nika to the hospital - Nami mentions he's been there before. It's be strange not to take him to a closer hospital.
The timelines of when these things happen will help us make sense of it - we're still making guesses.
RobNorthman
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Doomyk
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There is also a small point about the theory of Zoe as the possible mother of Nami and/or Nika.Dev mentioned that the plot of SG is less criminal than Wiab. Zoe mentions more than once that she wants to start a porn studio. Don't you think that the porn empire, as a legacy, although in the gray area,but is many times better than the main business of the Zanes.
As for Holgerson, it seems he left the family business and may have started working with Katie Zane in the fashion business and at the same time running shady schemes.
But it’s too early to build theories about what’s where and how. In Wiab, Uncle Tony and Aunt Jenny have already been mentioned, their children and seemingly different uncles and aunts. Plus *fucking grandma*, the ups and downs of Helen and Dylan’s relationship
(I wouldn’t be surprised at Dylan’s bastards on side). I wouldn't be very surprised if they were all Petrovas and Reveras(uncles and aunts). Well, the most important thing that 23-24 years passed between Wiab and Sg. From the beginning of the events of Wiab to the birth of many of the SG heroes, 2-4 years passed. Everything could still change 100 times. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dana still breaks up with Martin and ends up becoming the mother of Vanessa and Zara.
As for Holgerson, it seems he left the family business and may have started working with Katie Zane in the fashion business and at the same time running shady schemes.
But it’s too early to build theories about what’s where and how. In Wiab, Uncle Tony and Aunt Jenny have already been mentioned, their children and seemingly different uncles and aunts. Plus *fucking grandma*, the ups and downs of Helen and Dylan’s relationship
(I wouldn’t be surprised at Dylan’s bastards on side). I wouldn't be very surprised if they were all Petrovas and Reveras(uncles and aunts). Well, the most important thing that 23-24 years passed between Wiab and Sg. From the beginning of the events of Wiab to the birth of many of the SG heroes, 2-4 years passed. Everything could still change 100 times. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dana still breaks up with Martin and ends up becoming the mother of Vanessa and Zara.
BobTheDuck
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I'm hoping the expanded heist scene will drop a few juicy hints, currently the Holgersons and the Cerils seem to be the main vectors for antagonism.
Maybe Zoey's dialogue changes based on what you chose - in my playthrough she kept telling Willi she wanted to make cuddly toys, that kinda seems wholesome enough
Yeah, we only have fragments, so constructing a reliable and comprehensible timeline is still next in impossible.
Outside of the dream sequence, we can be sure that: 1. Nika saw Summer for the second-to-last time at a Cabin in the woods. 2. Nami reported them missing to Officer Laverne. 3. Officer Laverne likely went to the Cabin to collect them. 4. The Cabin is six hours drive from where they all live now. 4. Nika intimates that it's five years since the Cabin incident/Summer's disappearance. These are things all confirmed outside of dream sequences.
We know Nojiko used to have a boss at her hospital called Scarlet and that Nojiko hasn't enjoyed her work since Scarlet left (with Scarlet likely being the Scarlet also in WIAB). We know that Nojiko was the doctor who saved Nick's leg from amputation. We don't know the timelines for either of these things yet. Do they go back five or more years?
I do know that Nika's room from when he first met Summer is NOT the room he occupies from Ch 1 to Ch 5. They are structurally different. I am assuming Ocean did this deliberately.
PS - we don't yet know if the violent incident is linked to the cabin incident/summer's disappearance. They could be entirely unrelated events years apart.