The thing is, does the payoff justify the investment?
With Bella you have to invest a lot, but imho you get far more back when you're done.
But with Vanessa you get a cat-torturer even if you get through to her. You're just one misstep or wrong word away from becoming the next such mystery:
I can fix her!!
Seriously though, I hope Ocean gives us the chance to 'return her the favor'. Not to avenge Mario, no, just like Nika I feel it kinda personal when somebody thinks they can manipulate her, so I don't mind doing a whole playthrough dedicated to give her a surprise.
Damn reaction limit.
At first the dom and sub routes were planned with her, but now... Now I have no idea
If I remember correctly, there will be dom and "normal" routes now, and I have no idea who is dominating who.
But Vanessa is very suspicious. Why it feels like she is she scouting for talented girls? And she recognized Nami's earring. I wouldn't be surprised if she's looking for "talents" for Leia's club.
That's why there's the "H" option. Read the info, let your brain absorb it, get rid of said evil box, let your eyes enjoy the tasty looking cake (tasty for you) You could also save a pic for later enjoyments.
It's only as hard as you make it... want it to be?... take that whichever way... I guess. So many beautiful asses out there... they all need a bit of loving... take that whichever way you want as well.
But Vanessa is very suspicious. Why it feels like she is she scouting for talented girls? And she recognized Nami's earring. I wouldn't be surprised if she's looking for "talents" for Leia's club.
Damn! Interesting theory. That would be a real game cross-over mindfuck, should it be true ('wouldn't it be funny if the earrings were Leia preemptively saying, "hands off" these two girls... no club!).
As for Vanessa... yes, she has a boyfriend, but I also wonder if her sexuality is rather fluid. I wonder if Zara has some stories to tell that would put any Nika/Nami shenanigans to shame?
I still think Nika and Bella are underestimating Vanessa in relation to their Holgerson plot. Alarm bells should be ringing in their heads, especially since Vanessa always seems to know more about what's going on with them than the other way round. All up, the sub-plot promises to be a cracker as to who ultimately manipulates who. Can Nika/Bella discover Vanessa's Achilles Heel and exploit it?
That's why there's the "H" option. Read the info, let your brain absorb it, get rid of said evil box, let your eyes enjoy the tasty looking cake (tasty for you) You could also save a pic for later enjoyments.
I heard the "H" key will be repurposed as a minigame in Season 2 onward. If a frustrated player pounds that H key into oblivion, Nika just might get a Hard-on. /s
Yep, I know about Zara's mother. Physically she and Bella are the type I prefer; fit and sporty. But she's too intense for me, life with her would be constant struggle, competition and fighting. Sounds pretty exhausting.
I don't play many VN so don't know about Viccy being vanilla, but I do know that IRL she's the type I would prefer. Completely ignoring the fact that she's hot is the fact that she's the best longterm choice from the cast, she's the type you know your life with her will not be torture, it will be pleasant and stable, and she will be with you till the end. Plus, she's such a sunshine of positive energy that she outbalances my own negativism. Also, quite possibly the best mother material of all of them.
I do like Nami's type of insanity tho for pure amusement factor.
Best long term choice would be Robin. Even if Charlie became your mother in law. Vic is like an endless strawberry milkshake: you WILL get sick. So far Robin is the only character that has any decent level of dialogue that has no major apparent trauma or baggage (well I guess Charlie IS baggage...)
Damn! Interesting theory. That would be a real game cross-over mindfuck, should it be true ('wouldn't it be funny if the earrings were Leia preemptively saying, "hands off" these two girls... no club!).
As for Vanessa... yes, she has a boyfriend, but I also wonder if her sexuality is rather fluid. I wonder if Zara has some stories to tell that would put any Nika/Nami shenanigans to shame?
I still think Nika and Bella are underestimating Vanessa in relation to their Holgerson plot. Alarm bells should be ringing in their heads, especially since Vanessa always seems to know more about what's going on with them than the other way round. All up, the sub-plot promises to be a cracker as to who ultimately manipulates who. Can Nika/Bella discover Vanessa's Achilles Heel and exploit it?
I do think the earrings are something like that, suggesting they're under Leia's protection/patronage or just letting her circle know to look out for these two. But what if there was a third girl that needed help? Would she get another earring from her massive stockpile of Daz assets?
I think Vanessa treats Mario as her toy. So if Nika shows more balls, Vanessa is already bored as the Princess has conquered the Mario castle already My guess is she'll cat and mouse Nika, never doing anything that will compromise Nick's happiness with Noji. The important thing is she will use what she knows to dominate Nika, and knowing Ocean, chances are the first situation will leave Nika needing to get out from underneath (like the underdog he is).
For me personally, she is the most intriguing LI even though there's not a lot of her right now.
Both Nika and Vanessa have dominant personalities. It will be interesting to see the dynamics of their relationship.
You all describe her as if she's straight up the main villain of the story despite the fact she didn't nothing wrong so far. And unless I've forgotten, it was Bella who wanted to use her. I like Bella as well, but she's too bratty and overconfident for her own good. So if she ignores Nika's warning eventually, I would actually wish Vanessa to teach her a good lesson.
For me personally, she is the most intriguing LI so far even though there's not a lot of her right now.
Both Nika and Vanessa have dominant personalities. It will be interesting to see the dynamics of their relationship.
You all describe her as if she's straight up the main villain of the story despite the fact she didn't nothing wrong so far. And unless I've forgotten, it was Bella who wanted to use her. I like Bella as well, but she's too bratty and overconfident for her own good. So if she ignores Nika's warning eventually, I would actually wish Vanessa to teach her a good lesson.
I don't disagree with your points, but the dislike for Vanessa is easy to understand. SHe treats everyone as objects. She reduces Mila to a pair of breasts. Nami she teases just to find out about Nika and to put Nami under her spell. Zara is used to it, so basically ignores her antics. Nika is just a male to start with, and then she tries to assert dominance, not because she's interested, but that's her default setting. Mario is her toy. Her motivations are the least complicated in the game so far, despite her being a mindgame herself.
Currently we've seen very little that is honest about her. All the other girls have shown vulnerability at some point, which is endearing on a superficial level, but allows us to see into their personality. Currently Vanessa is a closed door with spikes. I'd say hello from a distance in real life and go find 20 Nia's or Vic's or Layla's to talk to, simply because I would be on my guard around someone who projects and objectifies as much as Vanessa does.
She doesn't have to be evil to be someone I'd avoid. She'd the too hard basket. I can't imagine how you'd go house hunting or deciding on what toilet paper to buy while shopping. Too many meaningless arguments that'd kill all vibe (for me).
I don't disagree with your points, but the dislike for Vanessa is easy to understand. SHe treats everyone as objects. She reduces Mila to a pair of breasts. Nami she teases just to find out about Nika and to put Nami under her spell. Zara is used to it, so basically ignores her antics. Nika is just a male to start with, and then she tries to assert dominance, not because she's interested, but that's her default setting. Mario is her toy. Her motivations are the least complicated in the game so far, despite her being a mindgame herself.
Currently we've seen very little that is honest about her. All the other girls have shown vulnerability at some point, which is endearing on a superficial level, but allows us to see into their personality. Currently Vanessa is a closed door with spikes. I'd say hello from a distance in real life and go find 20 Nia's or Vic's or Layla's to talk to, simply because I would be on my guard around someone who projects and objectifies as much as Vanessa does.
She doesn't have to be evil to be someone I'd avoid. She'd the too hard basket. I can't imagine how you'd go house hunting or deciding on what toilet paper to buy while shopping. Too many meaningless arguments that'd kill all vibe (for me).
Well, admittedly, the Vanessa type isn't for every man. But I can definitely imagine that Mika is a match for her. And if he plans to stand up to her, it will be a very interesting story on a very high level.
Well, admittedly, the Vanessa type isn't for every man. But I can definitely imagine that Mika is a match for her. And if he plans to stand up to her, it will be a very interesting story on a very high level.
I'm likely to do a Vanessa playthrough, because unlike real life I can break it up into doses and pause her. A real life partner like that - I'd never put myself in a room alone with her. But for the purposes of the story, I'm sure we'll find out things from her about what's going on that we couldn't from any other character, so ...multiple playthroughs it will be ...and if I make wrong choices, the nipple pump will be the least of my concerns. I'm quite sure Maja's collections is nothing on Vanessa's
I don't disagree with your points, but the dislike for Vanessa is easy to understand. SHe treats everyone as objects. She reduces Mila to a pair of breasts. Nami she teases just to find out about Nika and to put Nami under her spell. Zara is used to it, so basically ignores her antics. Nika is just a male to start with, and then she tries to assert dominance, not because she's interested, but that's her default setting. Mario is her toy. Her motivations are the least complicated in the game so far, despite her being a mindgame herself.
Currently we've seen very little that is honest about her. All the other girls have shown vulnerability at some point, which is endearing on a superficial level, but allows us to see into their personality. Currently Vanessa is a closed door with spikes. I'd say hello from a distance in real life and go find 20 Nia's or Vic's or Layla's to talk to, simply because I would be on my guard around someone who projects and objectifies as much as Vanessa does.
She doesn't have to be evil to be someone I'd avoid. She'd the too hard basket. I can't imagine how you'd go house hunting or deciding on what toilet paper to buy while shopping. Too many meaningless arguments that'd kill all vibe (for me).
Well, yeah. I kinda exaggerated when I said she didn't do nothing wrong.
All I'm saying is that this hatred for Vanessa becomes ridiculous with the other characters with their own issues around. Especially Bella. I bet if Bella didn't have so much screen time everyone would be whining about what a bitch she is, lol.
Well, admittedly, the Vanessa type isn't for every man. But I can definitely imagine that Mika is a match for her. And if he plans to stand up to her, it will be a very interesting story on a very high level.
I remember going through the game like
Victoria. Nope.
Nami. Nope.
Bella. ... I dunno. (I see her more as the friend Nika gets into troubles with, but I still haven't checked her path yet)
Sasha. Hm...
Only Zara really piqued my interest. But then chapter 4 started and I met Vanessa.
There's the mysterious vibe between her and Nika and it fits the dark romantic/neo-noir atmosphere of the game so well. I love it. No other LI has given me that mood.
William and Leia have something similar, but it's more toxic (and I love it too).
Well, yeah. I kinda exaggerated when I said she didn't do nothing wrong.
All I'm saying is that this hatred for Vanessa becomes ridiculous with the other characters with their own issues around. Especially Bella. I bet if Bella didn't have so much screen time everyone would be whining about what a bitch she is, lol.
I remember going through the game like
Victoria. Nope.
Nami. Nope.
Bella. ... I dunno. (I see her more as the friend Nika gets into troubles with, but I still haven't checked her path yet)
Sasha. Hm...
Only Zara really piqued my interest. But then chapter 4 started and I met Vanessa.
There's the mysterious vibe between her and Nika and it fits the dark romantic/neo-noir atmosphere of the game so well. I love it. No other LI has given me that mood.
William and Vanessa have something similar, but it's more toxic (and I love it too).
Robin and Maja are my two favourites, simply because they are down to earth. I'll end up most likely playing all the paths, just to explore all the details, but I wouldn't cope with the majority of the characters in person, they're way too intense. But that's the point of games anyway, a world you don't have to worry about 24/7
I guess also, most haters have their confirmed favourites already, so there's an element of justifying their own choice above the options. I'm most curious about Sasha's path, but I wouldn't say she's my favourite ...and my favourites are unlikely to become LI anyway
For me personally, she is the most intriguing LI even though there's not a lot of her right now.
Both Nika and Vanessa have dominant personalities. It will be interesting to see the dynamics of their relationship.
You all describe her as if she's straight up the main villain of the story despite the fact she didn't nothing wrong so far. And unless I've forgotten, it was Bella who wanted to use her. I like Bella as well, but she's too bratty and overconfident for her own good. So if she ignores Nika's warning eventually, I would actually wish Vanessa to teach her a good lesson.
Haha bro, let's wait for another flashback, a heartbreaking story of how teenage Vanessa protected baby Zara from their bitch mom and took care of her. What people say then
Most of the Ocean's characters are like that, one moment you empathize with them and the next you hate them. Let's say Leia, it is hard not to sympathize with her, listening to the story of how she survived Willie’s escape and almost starved herself to death from grief and longing. And in the next episode you see that she is now pimping out young girls in her club.
Still, I rather don't like Vanessa. I don’t know, there’s something serpently about her... The snake bracelet suits her very well.
Haha bro, let's wait for another flashback, a heartbreaking story of how teenage Vanessa protected baby Zara from their bitch mom and took care of her. What people say then
Please no! I'm not a fan of these typical heartbreaking stories. In fact, I don't think it would be good for her. At least not in the way you described it. Need to be very careful with characters like Vanessa. Because one wrong move and her image will be ruined completely.
Most of the Ocean's characters are like that, one moment you empathize with them and the next you hate them. Let's say Leia, it is hard not to sympathize with her, listening to the story of how she survived Willie’s escape and almost starved herself to death from grief and longing. And in the next episode you see that she is now pimping out young girls in her club.
Well, admittedly, the Vanessa type isn't for every man. But I can definitely imagine that Mika is a match for her. And if he plans to stand up to her, it will be a very interesting story on a very high level.
A dream scenario playing out in my head this very minute is Anna from Bookclub is Vanessa's mother and Nika ends up railing her while buttplug-wearing Vanessa is forced to watch.
IMO mostly this, based on this aspect of his storytelling being even worse in Where it All Began.
Not saying it won't be significant, but the reason for not informing the player is fabricated mystery and suspense.
I always thought it was a combination of both: He remembers certain things, but they're too hurtful to even think about them (these are the ones Noji and Nami could be aware of), but certain traumatic events can make you forget certain things.
Or it could be that Nika knows what happened, but Ocean isn't going to spill the beans and show us immediately what happened.
I think it's both. I think Ocean's specifically using Nika's trauma/disassociation as a way to create ambiguity as well as just loving keeping us in suspense. The suspense of what happens next is what keeps us eager for the next release after all, Ocean uses suspense much better than most AVN writers. He's not stingy with details, but loves misdirection and hiding things in plain sight.
One thing I find interesting about the cabin incident - it clearly freaks him out, but when he talks about seeing Summer after then he doesn't freak out as much. If it was a violent incident, and if the last time was a coffin (not saying she's dead though, just as a thought experiment), he'd have closure, unless he blocked it out. But he remembers seeing her again, yet has flashbacks with the hospital thinking he hadn't been there before.
On this, I don't think we can guess whether it was a violent trauma or emotional trauma, as we don't know anything about it. I think someone (Edit: DoomyK) posted about Marla being in on the racing - what if the weird lights in the cabin dream foreshadow car lights? The lights seemed cheesy, but if they represent traffic that actually might make some sense. I wonder if his reaction to seeing Vic in her accident is because it mirrors something that happened to Summer, and he feels drawn to her because of the unconscious similarity of the event. Maybe we'll find out Marla hit Summer while driving near the cabin and that's why Nika is part of her problem?
About Noji and Nami talking about it:
n "We all were shocked when the whole Summer thing went down but MAN!"
n "It's been years! GET OVER IT!"
Kinda seems to me that what they know suggests they're tip toeing around his feelings more than being so concerned about the events themselves. That explosion from Nami is pretty insensitive, and expecting way too much, while she really tip toes around the 'violent' incident just earlier.
So definitely selective, and I'd say based on context. Nika's not aware he's self censoring.
I think there is a level by which the people around Nika are being cautious with their words to avoid triggering him, but I'll do a list with spoilers to save screen space:
Nika remembers what happened at the cabin, not after. Jane (Officer Laverne's first name? So Nika's on first name basis with Jane?) driving them home is the end of it. This implies the issue wasn't at the cabin, whatever happened to SUmmer and Nika was after Jane picked them up. So we have a situation where in WiaB, the original story had police corruption, current WiaB we have the police being obstructed from higher up and in SG we have an evil police officer (Ceril). What if Nika was beaten up by Summer's dad, and he had police connections to cover it up? It's implied Jane wasn't on duty in the old versions.
I'm just thinking aloud here, because I never noticed that whatever happened to Summer didn't happen at the cabin, it happened after. The cabin was the last time Nika and Summer were romantic.
So this continues along that same thread - Nika is emotional about the cabin in hindsight because he knows now that what happens next is around the corner - not at the cabin, but afterwards (which is why the dream ends, because his mind is blocking it out). In the earlier version of the game, isn't it police lights at the cabin that preempt Jane's appearance? And now we have electric neon 'flowers' signalling the end of the dream and Summer disappears.
Nia doesn't know what happened either. If it was a death, I'm sure there would have been a funeral and the school would've heard. But Nia has no reason to hide anything from Nika, she has no idea what's gone on with him really - this is their first serious interaction, so we can take her words as being uncensored.
So just having spent a bit of time looking through the script, whatever happened maybe wasn't at the cabin specifically. Maybe Summer's dad was the violent one, and beat Nika up to teach him to stay away, and has police connections to cover it up. The disappearance might've been because he went too far. It's not just Summer that disappeared, but her parents too I think, otherwise Noji probably would've tried to find out from the parents. After all, Elsa's still around, presumably she'd know how to contact her aunt, but there's photos of her being sad thinking about the past.
Anyway, it all makes me think, whatever happened it's most likely not death, and it most likely happened the last time Nika saw Summer, not at the cabin.