I don't think it will impact development of either game much
I thought WIAB got the axe due to excessive spider cruelty. SG lets them live so it stayed on.
Responding together as you both make the same point. I'm not a Bella fan. Bella being deceptive does not make Vanessa's deception any less deceptive. Vanessa could have been honest and still called Bella out, Vanessa could have just not engaged with Bella, there are so many options to not be deceptive. Vanessa leads Bella on because she love mind games. It's not about tit for tat, responding to fire with fire or anything. Ethics is an independant status that we should hold to regardless of anyone else's two-faced antics. All Vanessa's behaviour towards Bella shows is that she like to play deceitful, manipulative games, which is 100% her character throughout the game. At the point that Vanessa meets Bella, how does she know why? We know why, but Vanessa defaults to ...something because she thinks Bella's someone she can leverage, without even knowing (at that point) why Bella's approaching her. If she does know, is she storing the information for future blackmail/leverage? She is not being transparent or sincere in her first interaction with Bella, regardless of Bella's intentions.
Similarly, there is no ethical way to justify how she exploits Mario's affection for her own purposes. She is blueballing him into wearing a buttplug, doesn't matter that she justifies it to herslef by also wearing one. She is manipulating him into doing something he would unlikely choose for himself by withholding sex, implying that if he submits to her antics, he'll get a reward. She's grooming him for her own amusement, while looking down on him. Is that the basis for a healthy, loving relationship? Sure, hold off sex if you're inclinded to treat it as something special, but leveraging it like that, knowing he would be ashamed if it got out (while telling people she's just met, please let it get out she thinks) while dangling a carrot of a reward - she actually cheapens their relationship. Sex becomes transactional, and a reward for how much he endures. And the first moment she meets Nika, she's attempting to seduce him and cheat on weak, faithful Mario, further abusing him. So she dumps Mario to be sincere? Or does she continue being manipulative and deceitful?
Even throwing out the knowledge of Mario's buttplug is a double game. She can test Nika and Nami's integrity to find out what kind of people they are - if rumours spread about Mario, she knows from where. She's a pretty stand up girlfriendNika would be wise to notice how she treates Mario as being her default mode of behaviour.
The fact that she is friendly is another misdirection. She knows Noji is important to Nick, so she is the dutiful host. Don't forget that she knows about Bella and Nika, but says "I don't think we share the same social circles" when Nika says he thinks he's seen her before. More misdirection. She triggers Zara to be more competitive towards Nika, then actively bets (the driver's license) against her while knowing what their mom did to Zara, belittling her own sister for the sake of a stranger she's just met - playing games with her sister's mental health.
She applies social darwinism to ther ethics, and that ubermensch mentality is something I despise. Weak people shouldn't be exploited even if we don't like them - or should Vic be exploited like Mario too? Or Damian? How does Nika respond as someone with crippled emotions? He supports Damian to further his own goals (well, baskets), and he has many choices to be kind to Vic, and it seems cruel to me not to take the chance to be supportive.
On the social darwinism, her "I'll never need to work, I'll see where life takes me" attitude also shows she's really entitled, and she's into Mario as a gold digger. Zara still has goals, Vanessa plans to float through life amusing herself at other's expense. If she doesn't go for Mario, does she just sponge of daddy Nick? Her plan for her future is to manipulate people so she can be indolent in her lifestyle.
Nika also doesn't judge Vanessa by what Bella's seen, which is why he calls her to call off interacting with Vanessa, because he realises how manipulative Vanessa is. But I still love this to describe her:
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I did a multicombo reply targeting all the combined things, but in your case I was more explaining where I personally find her to be insincere and where I believe she lacks transparency with my examples. I'm sure she also believes the ends justify the means, while I don't. She might have personal integrity which aligns her actions to her beliefs, but transparency is a perspective that can only be judged objectively - so whether or no she aligns herself to her beliefs, she shows remarkable callousness towards Mario. By extrapolation, if Nika loses her interest, how do you think she will treat him? Currently he is a curiousity, but that won't always be true.
You mostly responded to Penfold Mole. Again, I'm not arguing with what you said.
The funny thing: In my post to you and John972, I really thought I should edit or delete that part about Vanessa's transparency because it didn't clearly articulate what I wanted to say. But then I thought "who cares, it's fine enough" and it backfired. So this epic reply of yours is a direct result of my laziness.
But my point was what she said about womans weapons she most likely applies to herself too and it possible that her dominance over men may not be so straightforward and literal.
Whether it's true or Nika really needs to fix Vanessa by breaking her beliefs in order to win her heart, I'm okay with both ways. But there is just no way he will have to experience some heavy femdom to get on her path. I can expect the use of handcuffs and slaps, but Nika will never agree to be new Mario. If he does, it will be bizzare and cringe and completely out of the character.
White cat6's theory about Vanessa and Bella being a secret couple is more believable than this.
Vanessa is never gonna change her beliefs nor Nika is gonna try to “fix” her cause he genuinely doesn’t care… if he gets her it’s cause he’s managed to impress her with his smarts.
You mostly responded to Penfold Mole. Again, I'm not arguing with what you said.
The funny thing: In my post to you and John972, I really thought I should edit or delete that part about Vanessa's transparency because it didn't clearly articulate what I wanted to say. But then I thought "who cares, it's fine enough" and it backfired. So this epic reply of yours is a direct result of my laziness.
But my point was what she said about womans weapons she most likely applies to herself too and it possible that her dominance over men may not be so straightforward and literal.
Whether it's true or Nika really needs to fix Vanessa by breaking her beliefs in order to get her, I'm okay with both ways. But there is just no way he will have to experience some heavy femdom on her path. I can expect the use of handcuffs and slaps, but Nika will never agree to be new Mario. If he does, it will be bizzare and cringe and completely out of the character.
White cat6's theory about Vanessa and Bella being a secret couple is more believable than this.
You’re a standup guy with good morals but you’re too rigid with your judgments… Vanessa sees Mario as weak and stupid, she’s a bit sadistic and he’s her plaything, so what? It’s no big deal in the great scheme of things and he’s fine with being humiliated.I did a multicombo reply targeting all the combined things, but in your case I was more explaining where I personally find her to be insincere and where I believe she lacks transparency with my examples. I'm sure she also believes the ends justify the means, while I don't. She might have personal integrity which aligns her actions to her beliefs, but transparency is a perspective that can only be judged objectively - so whether or no she aligns herself to her beliefs, she shows remarkable callousness towards Mario. By extrapolation, if Nika loses her interest, how do you think she will treat him? Currently he is a curiousity, but that won't always be true.
Most of the jacuzzi scene is her digging for info - maybe insurance in case she feels Nick is being taken advantage of by Noji? What better way to manipulate people than by making them complicit in something they find shameful? In essence that is what she is doing with Mario - the fact that she wants it kept secret (nudge nudge wink wink Mr 'Stranger-I-don't-know', oh please don't spread rumours Mr 'I-Have-A-Plan-To-Destroy-Mario') because it would humiliate him means he does find what she wants of him shameful.
And I can't ignore how she treats Mario. The first thing we know is she's Mario's girlfriend, and she undermines him, giving his secrets to strangers. At best, that makes her a loose lipped gossip.
Her frustration when Zara stops her attempted seduction shows a facet of her true nature that she'd probably rather hide.
Regards dom routes, Nika could submit to the nipple pump. I'm sure there's more aligned with that tendency in the future, so not completely out of character. I also think any heavy femdom (considering Eva is fanservice showing some of Ocean's tastes) will require progress on a path, it's be something that develops. Nika also is willing to bide his time and endure to reach goals, as shown with Zara and Nadia in the locker room, even if that case is more an exercise in stoicism. I think it likely Ocean will allow for many different scenarios, but if you make confident choices, those paths will never open up because it doesn't suit your playing style. Some characters were initially planned to have different paths - currently I think Ocean has probably streamlined some of those and made certain characters key for those paths. If there is to be a dom route, it'd certainly be more weird for Vic to be in charge
My point was not that 'she is sadistic, that's bad', but 'she has a tendency to sadism, so I would be careful around her'. Noticing how people treat others that they perceive as less important is a good way to see how they will treat you when you lose importance to them. If someone treats people differently if they think there's no consequences, then what they're really saying is they only behave if you can respond with consequences that affect them. This isn't a focus on morals, but understanding how people are behaving. If she treats her conquest with disdain, then I have to avoid becoming a conquest etc.
Well, people lose importance to other people all the time even when they try to bring value to relationships, so there are no guarantees. Ocean could also have a certain plot for her story just like Mila's story, Nia's story and Bella's story all have their own unique dramas. Currently we don't knowif there is one, but pretty much every LI in SG has some form of trauma they need to overcome, some more obvious than others. I suspect Ocean will use that trauma to create rifts between a LI and Nika, for the player to decide whether they'll go through to reach the other side.
Who knows whether there might be some plot twists regards Mario, considering who his dad is in WiaB?And GoT isn't on Patreon now, is it?
Look, no kidding. When the final version comes out, write a detailed review of the season with a breakdown of every major character under a separate spoiler. I'd like to read that, seriously. I'm actually planning on writing something like that myself.
It's too early to say that. Give them time. Nika doesn't care simply because they just met and she's the only LI who gives him a mixed/negative impression. Except for Bella, but her case didn't last long. I sure Vanessa will be more heavy in that regard.
They handcuffed him, there was nothing he could do except humiliate them by refusing to undress on his own.
The handcuffing thing, well, even if he had no choice, he showed his strength by refusing to beg or be cowed by their antics. He accepted it stoically, saw the sense of justice in it. I'm sure they way he reacted probably poisoned their satisfaction with their revenge as well. And then he gets half a banana.
Wasn't she the one called "Beanpole"?
Might be… it’s cool that you try to delve into many variables while I keep things general with a focus on one clear outcome, it’s two different ways of approaching the matter and they’re both valuable. Unfortunately we don’t have answers yetWell, people lose importance to other people all the time even when they try to bring value to relationships, so there are no guarantees. Ocean could also have a certain plot for her story just like Mila's story, Nia's story and Bella's story all have their own unique dramas. Currently we don't knowif there is one, but pretty much every LI in SG has some form of trauma they need to overcome, some more obvious than others. I suspect Ocean will use that trauma to create rifts between a LI and Nika, for the player to decide whether they'll go through to reach the other side.
Regards Mario, he's a comic book antagonist currently, but as Nami said to Nika "Where's the harm?!" It's all about reciprocation. Even if I play Nika as an existentialist/nihilist, there is always someone more powerful who can seize their goals at my expense. It's almost guaranteed in this game that Nika will have to humble himself to get through some situations, we've already seen that. Keeping our head high has meaning even if it's just to stop ourselves from swallowing the salty water
Regards Vanessa seeing Nika as an equal, we really have no idea of her motivations on any level but the superficial, what she wants us to see. She's currently observing, throwing out small bits of contention, just to test and see what kind of person Nika is. Personally when I've been baited to disclosure, I try to be non-commital. If someone is fishing, trying to get me to take the bait, I prefer to know why before engaging in their mindgames.
What we do know is that she has a romance path, so there is the chance for a happy outcome in pursuing her. But I also think Ocean's happy outcomes might all be bittersweet in some fashion.
Other than Vic of course, because she is an angel ...mainly saying that for Maviarab incase he unleashes the power of the schwartz coffee
You’re right… I wouldn’t care much about it if I did a Vanessa run but I guess she’d be a healthier person that way. The thing is, the weakness of men which is apparent to her will still be present everywhere she goes, she’ll need to switch completely her perspective and be… let’s say more lenient
You're right, I misremembered who revealed the butt plug. My apologies to Vanessa for that.
Lol she’s so bitchy and touchy. I love making fun of her scrawny ass
YeahLol she’s so bitchy and touchy. I love making fun of her scrawny ass
,and she has a face of a girl who deserve to be punished very hard. I loved her character in that other game but she has one of those faces that makes you want to punish.
I think this is another test of the social chameleon skills of the MC. But if the answer to the previous similar test was due to the plot, I mean when MC allowed Nadia and Zara to take revenge for the sake of improving relations with them.Lol she’s so bitchy and touchy. I love making fun of her scrawny ass
Whatever, she’s bothersome even if you’re nice to her up until now which means I’ll retaliate… I don’t think Bella cares too much either way even though she mentioned to go easy on her, Beanpole will have to seriously recheck her attitude if she wants kindness. At the end of the day I’m a Sasha main, so she can fuck off
My Nika got the whole banana.
OK, now you're scaring me about the possibility of a heavy femdom.
You can make sketches based on the replies and then rework them into complete material. I should do it too, sometimes I leave thoughts in my memory and they get lost there as usual.
I was going to drop on you a big reply, but I need to sleep. So wait till tomorrow.You're right, I misremembered who revealed the butt plug. My apologies to Vanessa for that.
Regards the rest, it can be read either way, but Vanessa specifically starts off antagonistic to Nika:
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If someone said to me we don't share the same social circles, it's no big deal. It's probably true. For someone else to notice the way it's said, shows a lot about how Vanessa spoke. Zara's antagonistic to Nika because of the game, but she behaves for Nick's sake, even if she does get fiery.
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Nick isn't impressed by Vanessa's antics, and knows Vanessa is trying to start something.
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How to say I'm not dominant by being dominant and in control.
Okay, so SHe didn't reveal about Mario, but she's going out of her way to make life uncomfortable for Nika and Zara, and it is at Nick's expense. Zara behaves; even if she resents Nika for the game, she knows she's there to support her dad.
ni "You two seem to have a nice relationship."
The look Vanessa gives Noji when Nick says this about Nami and Nika sets her wondering, the focus on her is Ocean drawing our attention that Vanessa is paying attention. I'd say some of what she's doing in the jacuzzi, is the further enflame things - provoke, merely to witness the reaction, take the information and use it later.
At best Vanessa treats everyone as if they're just pieces to play with. Zara's acting far more mature than Vanessa overall in this situation. Last observation; the anger with which Vanessa says:
va "Maybe [name] was about to put the moves on me- or maybe he wasn't."
scene ad735 with vpunch
va "We'll never find out, thanks to you."
I simply don't get how anyone can defend this, even if she's trying to see how far Nika might go, she's still enticing him, still in essence provoking him. A woman acting that much like a cock tease I would have no respect for. Who else does she do this with while having a boyfriend? Her intention is also no innocence, considering her sudden reaction to Zara breaking the moment.
But I'll shut up about it now, she's not completely evil, only 90% now, I only lost the buttplug theory, the rest of her is still a snake
