- Oct 6, 2024
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After losing WIAB's patreon, radical changes were to be expected, including in SG.
- Thread starter 7767
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- Dec 24, 2018
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Most likely though is that SG will remain mostly the same and Ocean will change whatever he feels he needs to in WiaB for minimal changes to what is already published as a final version (ie less work and less change to his biggest support base).
- Oct 3, 2019
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I am torn with the idea of Nika being William's son. I like it but is such a easy plot point. Still, we just do not have enough information to say one thing or another and looking at older WiaB is a exercise in futility. It is similar in the broads strokes but when we look closer they are very different things.
I am not sure that we can say this either. SG and WiaB is said to be heavily intertwined, so the change in WiaB should impact SG, and we can't be sure on how much. I sometimes think that the change will be bigger in the log than in the game, sometimes I have a feeling that he will mostly ignored it but have a throw away line.
Still we have discussed this topic to exhaustion and back, the answer is always the same, wait for the ch4 to drop.
- Dec 24, 2018
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My main reasoning is that SG is already in the public space, it's hard to do an update of something published that changes too much - otherwise anyone could release a USK 0 rated game in Germany and stealth update it to have 18+ content. Stealth changes means there is not significant content changes that would change the rating, and this isn't just renders or animations, but concepts. SG mainly avoids any of the areas that WiaB touches, so the changes will have more impact on SG moving forward as more Zane content is shown. Stealth changes to SG season 1 will probably occur, but they'll be minor, as currently the connection to WiaB is mainly in inferences that we haven't seen in either game yet, other than simply that certain characters exist. It is mostly content/plot moving forward that changes in SG, whereas the potential changes mentioned in that devlog kinda imply a through combing through WiaB's scripts.
Or not.
Or Ocean decided Ben isn't a beta anymore, and cucks Willi with all Willi's ex interests, after Leia cages him and throws away the key in revenge, hires the Krayt gang to show WIlli what he will never experience again, etc etc.
- Oct 3, 2019
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Oh, my bad, for S1 I fully agree with you. Was referring to the game as a whole, we have no way of knowing how much the changes in WiaB will affect SG. I also agree with you, but what changes ? Ocean retconned the Log, was there any change and not a collective delirium ? I also could talk about how he changed SG but the script was not that well combed through, so I am a bit skeptical of how well this change will be implement.
Always knew that Ben was the true alpha of WiaB.
You will be on a 20+-year journey with the VN having 30 planned chapters.
It looks like a USB-A drive and there was no cable involved and the type of cable wouldn't even matter 'cause the drive would do all the work. And such a device would definitely trick the phone into "thinking" it's a pc and not a drive. The drive is actually more advanced than you think, having anti-gravity capabilities.Umm, so anyone able to insert a USB-C drive into a USB-C port of a phone is a badass?
Or are you trying to say that the USB-drive in her hand doesn't look exactly like a USB-C, but more like a USB-A drive, so it won't fit? Well, then the only thing she needs is a USB-OTG cable. It's usually about 10cm long and dirt cheap, available everywhere. Who says she doesn't have one?
God, I'm such a badass!
There were even USB-drives with micro-USB in one end available before the first USB-C phones were. Also directly insertable into phones with a micro-USB port.
I actually thought that the slurping part is kind of badass, but might be possible with a stick with some special hardware (and software, obviously). I'm not one to say that such hardware doesn't exist, because technically it's possible. Still badass, totally.
But she got it from Emilio, so it's likely some (corporate) spy gear, not too fantastic to be believable.
Now thinking about it, the OTG cable may not be the right one with such special hardware, a normal USB cable would likely be the right one for it. You'd need the phone to "think" that it's a computer attached to it, not a drive. My mistake. Not important with the USB-C interface though.
But it was Nika who plugged it in so he's the badass one.
I haven't played WIAB but after seeing these renders I have no doubt he's William's son.
But he did look like that and that's what matters 'cause at that point that was the official story.
A while ago I saw a render of "the old Summer" so I disagree.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Ocean has rebooted WiaB and the story is not the same. It's not just changing a few renders. As I said, William would be 19 when he's in jail and meets Miru. Ocean used the same basic model for Scarlet as he used for Vic, so does that make them related? He used an identical model for Mon as he used for Mrs Frohn, but they're two seperate people. The first remake version of Scarlet looked like the unknown person visiting Amber, until he decided to use it for SG and mak another for Scarlet, this all just means that once Ocean's designed a character, he'll reuse it if it gets cut.
Regardless of what the story was, it's what the story is that matters. WiaB has a different path, as does SG since the remakes. JUst like there's no gun scene with Marla, we haven't seen a lot of what existed in the old WiaB. SOme of that is to keep the two stories distinct, ven though they flow together.
Renders of a work in progress leaked to the public are not the same as a public release. The WiP is a reward for patreons to prove he's working for their support. The game being sold on steam is public: everything before that was in effect a beta, which we can see by Ocean reserving the right to change anything up to the release.
- Oct 3, 2019
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This renders are of before the rework and everything of the OG is no longer canon.
He looked like that i 0.6. Nee young William does not look like Nika.
OG Summer was scary.
I already believed that Nika is the son of someone important from WIAB and seeing those renders it's pretty clear to me, though not 100% sure.
To new players sure, but for those being here from the beggining in both WIAB and SG's cases, how many reworks can you be ok with? Whether it's changed because of Patreon or on a whim.
But there was. Again no issue for new players, but what about old ones?
I remember another render of "old Summer" at the cabin. That was work in progress too? Can you guarantee that nothing major from S1 will be changed at some point in the future? No one can not even the dev because of stuff like Patreon ToS... Or something from the previews from S2E1. Imagine if the dev is currently reworking S1 removing a major character completely and replacing the game everywhere. Would you be ok with that saying "oh that's the old SG, the new one is what matters"?
Even if it was an alpha you can't just change important things like this and expect people to be ok with it.
That's the problem. Where do you draw the line?
- Dec 24, 2018
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You can fight it all you like, but Ocean abandoned drug happy Summer, the gun, the dolphin jokes, the old William flashback, the old WiaB storyline, William's rockabilly haircut (which changedat least 3 times in chapter 6)...
If you want Ocean's canon, it's that Helen breeds Miru behind Willi's back and that's where Nika comes from:
Is this canon? It's in the old WiaB...
SG Season 1 is considered a completed work. Ocean can of course mess us around, but there are diminishing returns for him doing this. He can't sell S1 to people who have already bought it. It won't generate more income. So he's progressing with Season 2. Simple economics will tell him to leave it alone now because he needs to sell WiaB and he needs to start selling Season 2. Sure he'd like to fix things like the missing animations and the music licenses, but he's going to be too busy making sure he can pay next years taxes.
Old players, have to learn that downloading from a site like this has no guarantees. Some of my favourite games have been abandoned because there was too much to rework to meet patreon's ToS. Others I have to play all the way from the start every update of 200 renders or whatever. This is actually a common thing. You can try to hold onto your past memories, but Ocean has abandoned the old versions. Making sense of the story in the official version is the only thing you can do to make sense of the next release.
I can't be the only one who prefers the original Claire, right?Does anyone have the vanilla game installed to confirm this?
I have the game with the Uncut Mod and looking at the gallery I saw that the pictures of Claire and Maja are their pre-reworked version
View attachment 4389337 View attachment 4389339
Come on Ocean, keep up the good work with your remasters!
I don't know why you had to post that shit. You could've at least hid it under a spoiler...Was the dev high or what? I never said I prefer the old version of SG. The new one is definitely better. And SG S1 is not completed work, not with old models still in the game, missing music, grammatical errors...
Wanna bet?
That's the thing, those versions were official at some point. That was the story. And then the dev decided to make major changes. Sure the VNs improved and even though you could just ignore those old versions wouldn't have been better to have the current story from the start? You play the first episode and when the second one is released the things you knew no longer apply...
- Oct 3, 2019
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i get what you are saying and I don't disagree entirely, but ultimately is Ocean's story and if he has repeatedly told us that OG WiaB is a dead end and we should not consider it going forward there is not a reason for us be looking back, regarless of how we feel about it.
If Ocean changes the story to the point that I don't see value in it anymore, I will simply walk away. My problem in SG is not that he changed it, is that the story now does not make sense. And my fear is that the same will happen in WiaB, despite his intentions.
- Dec 24, 2018
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The reason I posted it is to show there's heaps of things that Ocean has done that don't have a place in either game. If Ocean takes them out, they're not canon. It really is that simple. The author removed it, the current version is what there is, no matter what we remember. You'll have forgotten how "cool" the gun scene was by the time we get to season 5. Or it'll be nostalgia. The only thing we can take seriously is whatever is the current form of the work.
First, you want to say that stuff pre-rework (William's old kid model) proves something about the games, then you say you prefer the new games. Well, the new games don't have that scene.
If we're going to pirate from this site the hazard is seeing games grow and change. I can't think of too many games with serious development time where the dev hasn't changed fundamental things at some point. It's against the site's rules to mention it, but it happens. And it happened a LOT in the last year with patreon's ToS. If Ocean wants to make sure his games are safe from the inquisition, I welcome the changes that allow the game to continue.
If the game becomes boring by too many changes, well, there are others I can play. Everyone has different limits of what they'll accept.
As far as getting people on steam to pay for SG Season 1 again, he'd have to market it as a different product - it's in their libraries. He could try a DLC that replaces the script, but he'd get some serious negative reactions from that kind of shenanigans. But also, he has a desire to work on moving the story forward right now, he got burnt out from reworks, and reached the point where he couldn't keep fixing things. Complete doesn't mean perfect either. So many games released on steam have typos, bugs, AAA games as well.
- Aug 16, 2022
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Ok Bob, maybe I'm missing what your trying to say here but how do you mean? 90% of the games I play that are currently in development (and have been for years) have not had "fundamental" changes made to them. At least not even remotely to the point that SG and now WiAB have. Did you mean games with anything that that can be construed as incest especifically? Because even then I cannot recall a single game I'm currently playing that has made a single monumental retroactive change like SG has.
Even though my sample size is small (I'm currently playing 19 games that are in development). Nothing even comes close to this game. Personalities of most characters have changed. Relationships. Last names. Plot points. Motivations. Things kept getting added to the middle of the existent story that completely break any semblance of continuity. Canon? In SG? It changes almost everytime a new update comes out. How can you possibly create a story that makes any sense when you keep creating inconsistencies every step of the way?
This is how I see the development of SG so far:
I call this depiction "Self Inflicted Wounds". We've been in the second panel for years now since the reworks began. And even though I have issues with the game, I really, really hope we never get to the 3rd.
- Jul 12, 2020
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I'll admit...it's a little hyperbole...
Some numbers: (cos I'm a stats guy). I've discounted and don't care about 581 VN's. Of those, I would say around 20 I stopped following because the dev changed stuff and it was no longer the story that got me interested in the first place.
I currently 'follow' 69...of those, 15 are also on the verge of being dropped, for very similar reasons. They have changed story elements are now heading in a direction that does not interest me.
I have kept (completed) just 33 (and some of that number are side stories to the main VN). So yes, it does happen, but even I wouldn't say it's often or common either.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Well, that's the thing, I COULD give examples, but it's against the rules ...which makes me look like a wanker saying it. But my sample size is based on having a current watch list of 320, having played 94 games that got abandoned, 34 games that got completed, and having a further 77 games that I've partially played that have been completed (that aren't on my watch list). This means I have years worth of material to play, some of which might be shit, but I'll delete when I discover that.
I tend to give things a chance, and by looking at the number of abandond games I've played (some of them absolute gems better than the average released) I see that same stat on the site. There are WAY more RenPy games that get abandoned than finished (I almost only play RenPy games): on the site, 41.7% of RenPy games are abandoned, 28.1% completed and 29.1% are in active development, including games that haven't seen an update in a year. Is this because the renders make it appear less of a fantasy to the censors? Most likely. RenPy devs don't have a good average.
That implies my sample size is pretty large even if I'm only active in this thread - I mean, I have been here since 2018, like an absolute leech
What I've noticed is the biggest changes are usually finding the simplest ways around incest and school settings. ONe game got abandoned for non consensual sleep sex, it was a vague horror.So what has Ocean done? He's made changes that mean the games that he's invested more than half a decade into aren't a negative statistic by reworking things that are problematic for the ongoing story. There are quite a few examples of this. Ocean has been the most dramatic in changing the fundamental direction of SG and starting from the ground up with WiaB.
The problem isn't the continuity of the story, but the continuity of our memories of what we played last. If you can divorce what you remember from what's in front of you, the continuity within the published form of the game really has one glaring issue, that that's the nature of Nika and Nami's past. That's Ocean's biggest omission. But that hasn't made sense from any version of the game. Most of the things that don't make sense (other than the bad writing of cat scratches, impossible timelines and cabin distances) are trying to reconcile our memories of the previous versions.
The canon isn't an ironclad plot, it is simply the officially published plot that the author has released. Steam isn't early access for SG, so therefore, we assume a finished season. The bad will Ocean would generate by changing season 1 would outweigh most benefits of the time wasted doing it. I won't put it past him, but it's less likely now it's behind him.
As far as grand statements though, changes to characters - Nia, Robin, Kate, Maja, Sasha, Sonja, Jeff, Trey, Zara, Vanessa, Amber, Nadia, Kate ...the vast majority have had no substatial changes to their continuity. Some of that is lack of content, but it is mostly Bella, Nami, Mila, Vic and Nika who have suffered. Bella hasn't changed but been toned down. Her story is essentially the same as it always has been, but it's lost a bit of impact. Nami is the one has suffered the most, and she is the one that is the biggest potential to cause Ocean issues. Mila ...her story hasn't changed at all. But who is Mila, I can't guess day to day what she'll look like. At least now I have a face that's relatively consistent (but not 100% ...lets pretend it's makeup or something). Vic has had the same problem as Mila, it's mostly cosmetics that have changed, but she's more consistent. Ayua, again, cosmetics, like Robin - their stories are still mostly the same, just expanded.
Nika, Nami and Noji are the real ones with the problems, as they have changed between versions in dramatic ways. We've debated how that's changed, and mostly it's because we remember the old versions and hold onto them.
If we talk WiaB, since the reboot - what continuity errors? Again it's our expectations based on the memories of the old versions that make us unhappy with what's in front of us. I've made a decision to try to keep a separation between the old, redundant canon of pre-rework in both games so I can try to see the games as someone who stumbles across it now for the first time. Of course I still reference the old versions about things I hope to see, like Donna and Elena's involvement in WiaB and how they become part of ZPR - because currently none of that material even exists, it's only hints.
Anyway, you've seen me write all this stuff before. It's just that tiresome point when people go, "hey NIka has green eyes and Leia has green eyes! Wow". We ALL know Ocean's on patreon, end of similarity right there.
I think I've addressed this, my hyperbole is about as dramatic as people making connections to abandoned content. I didn't even include a picture of Katie in my ted talk. It's time for more interesting things, like coffee or an update
Edit: Actually, thinking more about the numbers here - of the games you are interested in, as opposed to discounted due to no interest - those 20 that were dropped were dropped because they changed right? The other 561 were just things you decided you didn't like. So of the things that interested you that are in current development, there are 89 threads, you dropped 20 of those due to changes and 15 more are likely to be dropped. 35/89 is roughly 2/5ths. 39% risk of changes that cause you to drop a game (that interests you) because it shifts too far from what attracted you are pretty significant odds. Even if we discount the 20, it's 1 in 5 games that are in development (that you're interested in) that have changes causing you to potentially drop them. Again, that's not insignificant.
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- May 31, 2024
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Man I feel fortunate to have only found this game in the last 4-5 months. I've tried twice but couldn't find myself getting into WIAB. I have read some of the multipage dissertations of complaints about reworks here, but so far I've enjoyed SG without having to worry about past versions or other connected games.
- Nov 13, 2022
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Don't worry, you will soon join our legions of eternal suffering waiting for new chapters.
- Jul 12, 2020
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I'm also very fussy lol...and getting more so as I get older. This is a great example, were it nor for WIAB, I'd have dropped this a long time ago too