VN Ren'Py Abandoned Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[Mortarion]

I have no idea why the guy in the comments above is lying about one update every 1.5 years, but anyone can find the table in the off-topic thread and check it for themselves. Chapter 5 took the longest time to develop, taking 14 months. But if you take into account that this is the time from the previous Full Release (not Beta) to the current Full Release, and let me remind you that between the CH5Beta and CH5Full there was a Steam release and 2000+ reworked renders from Chapter 1 you can get the idea why it took so long. The shortest time was Chapter 3.5, 6 months. In total, 6 updates in 60 months, that is, on average, one update every 10 months.

Copied that table here for you.

Chapters	Renders	Cinematics	Beta Release	Final Release	Development Time
S1 Ch 1	660	3	-​	8 May 2019	000 Days
S1 Ch 2	2545	1	31 Dec 2019	11 Jan 2020	237 Days + 11 Days (8 months, 3 days)
S1 Ch 3 + RW	1655	2	02 Jan 2021	23 Jan 2021	357 Days + 21 Days (12 months, 12 days)
S1 Ch 3.5 + RW	1237	2	30 July 2021	20 Aug 2021	188 Days + 21 Days (6 months, 28 days)
S1 Ch 4 + RW	2274	5	31 May 2022	24 July 2022	284 Days + 54 Days (11 months, 4 days)
S1 Ch 4.5 + RW	1488	5	25 Nov 2022	9 Mar 2023	124 Days + 104 Days (7 months, 13 days)
S1 Ch 5 + RW	2220	3	25 Oct 2023	10 May 2024	230 Days + 198 Days (14 months, 1 day)
Season 1 End	12079	21	-​	-​	1829 Days (5 years/60 months, 2 days)
S2 Ch 1			-​	-​	In Development​

Hey mate, I have noticed that you have put on the effort to create a compilation of the devlogs for both games. But you have mentioned, that there are some pasrts missing, renders or similar. I'm way to lazy to search every part of it for missing stuff, you should know the best what's lacking.

Just DM with the stuf you are missing and I try to provide you with that stuff. WIAB dev logs go back till 15.01.2021 and SG dev logs until 26.01.2021

 

[yossa999]

Hey mate, I have noticed that you have put on the effort to create a compilation of the devlogs for both games. But you have mentioned, that there are some pasrts missing, renders or similar. I'm way to lazy to search every part of it for missing stuff, you should know the best what's lacking.

Just DM with the stuf you are missing and I try to provide you with that stuff. WIAB dev logs go back till 15.01.2021 and SG dev logs until 26.01.2021

Ah, thanks, Mort, but I think everything's in place now

 

[AlexFXR]

Ah, the elusive downfall of Ocean Patreon. I’ve heard the stories about it for years. I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[AlexFXR]

In my opinion, maintaining 1k + subs while going on an average of a full year between his 2 games without an update is insanely good.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. After BAD was released on Steam, DPC's Patreon gained about 5,000 people in a year and their number was constantly growing. After SG was released on Steam, there was a small influx of people on Patreon, but despite this, their number is gradually decreasing. Patreon fans made calculations according to which their number should have grown to 3,000-6,000 after the game was released on Steam, but these calculations were before the scandal.

You know, I really don't like this whole situation with SG, but I understand that I or you or anyone else can't change it. The only person who can change it is Ocean. But he always treated his Patreons like shit, but he kisses the ass of the record company and adapts to it. He doesn't understand that the main people here are from Patreon, because they give him money and he needs to please them. And if Ocean promises them something, then he must keep his word and fulfill his promise. But if he is a loser, whose word is worth nothing, then it is better not to promise anything, so as not to disappoint people. If Ocean does not understand this and continues to shit on his Patreons, then he will go down in VN history as a developer who, through his stupidity, destroyed a very promising game.

 

[RNasc4444]

Sorry, but I disagree with you. After BAD was released on Steam, DPC's Patreon gained about 5,000 people in a year and their number was constantly growing. After SG was released on Steam, there was a small influx of people on Patreon, but despite this, their number is gradually decreasing. Patreon fans made calculations according to which their number should have grown to 3,000-6,000 after the game was released on Steam, but these calculations were before the scandal.

You know, I really don't like this whole situation with SG, but I understand that I or you or anyone else can't change it. The only person who can change it is Ocean. But he always treated his Patreons like shit, but he kisses the ass of the record company and adapts to it. He doesn't understand that the main people here are from Patreon, because they give him money and he needs to please them. And if Ocean promises them something, then he must keep his word and fulfill his promise. But if he is a loser, whose word is worth nothing, then it is better not to promise anything, so as not to disappoint people. If Ocean does not understand this and continues to shit on his Patreons, then he will go down in VN history as a developer who, through his stupidity, destroyed a very promising game.

I get that and I'm not disagreeing with you. The game could be doing much better if Ocean made different decisions. But that's not just Ocean. There are tons of devs who screw themselves over for one reason or another. Take SirD for example. You don't think he and Alorth could be swimming in cash if only he could be arsed to put in some work in their game?

My point was merely that Ocean is doing great despite not putting out an update for either game in quite a while. With 1k+ subs on Patreon and the Steam sales he surely isn't struggling financially. Therefore there is no incentive for him to put out an update any earlier that he wants to.

 

[alanrock]

People should design their own games. This would address everyone's issues.

 

[Holyx9]

I say the main issue with Ocean is that he doing to major long AVN projects at the same time. Because of this, his time is split and he can't put as much time as needed on each project. That is the reason why the time frame between releases feel so long. If he was to focus on 1 project like SG than he can move faster on each update. I also think that the lack of lewd scenes in SG is finally beginning to catch up to it. We're about to enter S2 and there still no signs of a lewd scene. That may change when the new episode drops but the we still don't know. Ocean losing patreon subs slowly is a warning sign that something is wrong and their needs to be a change especially since S1 was released on steam as well in May of last year.

 

[sorco2003]

I say the main issue with Ocean is that he doing to major long AVN projects at the same time. Because of this, his time is split and he can't put as much time as needed on each project. That is the reason why the time frame between releases feel so long. If he was to focus on 1 project like SG than he can move faster on each update. I also think that the lack of lewd scenes in SG is finally beginning to catch up to it. We're about to enter S2 and there still no signs of a lewd scene. That may change when the new episode drops but the we still don't know. Ocean losing patreon subs slowly is a warning sign that something is wrong and their needs to be a change especially since S1 was released on steam as well in May of last year.

The first thing you say works against SG. By taking SG alone after the departure of Regium, WIAB was making more money and was much more advanced. If he had followed the advice, there would be no SG today, and the complaint would be “why didn't he continue with SG?
About the second thing, maybe I would have thought that with the release of chapter 3.... but it was so long ago and there was a rework and more chapters and SG continued to grow in economic support, it could be more popular? yes, but that does not take away the fact that this chosen path made their product quite successful.

 

[AlexFXR]

I get that and I'm not disagreeing with you. The game could be doing much better if Ocean made different decisions. But that's not just Ocean. There are tons of devs who screw themselves over for one reason or another. Take SirD for example. You don't think he and Alorth could be swimming in cash if only he could be arsed to put in some work in their game?

My point was merely that Ocean is doing great despite not putting out an update for either game in quite a while. With 1k+ subs on Patreon and the Steam sales he surely isn't struggling financially. Therefore there is no incentive for him to put out an update any earlier that he wants to.

Unfortunately, you are right, Ocean is happy with the little he gets from 1000 Patreons. We have no choice but to sit and wait for the result, whatever it may be. The only good thing is that we don't have to wait long and in the next update we will see which way Ocean decided to go.

 

[BobTheDuck]

The first thing you say works against SG. By taking SG alone after the departure of Regium, WIAB was making more money and was much more advanced. If he had followed the advice, there would be no SG today, and the complaint would be “why didn't he continue with SG?
About the second thing, maybe I would have thought that with the release of chapter 3.... but it was so long ago and there was a rework and more chapters and SG continued to grow in economic support, it could be more popular? yes, but that does not take away the fact that this chosen path made their product quite successful.

You saved me from being longwinded about it. Exactly this. Also, because WiaB exists, SG doesn't have to explain the backstory, people can find out, Ocean doesn't need to waste half the story narrative telling the past, outlining relations and connections. Ocean shows Emilio in WiaB, suddenly we know what allegiances Emilio might have. Noji mentions Scarlet, she don't need to go into exposition on who Scarlet is. Katie appears, and there is so little explanation of the Zanes, just Willi's proclivities. It also allows an incredibly detailed backstory.

I still think of the two as parallel timelines in the one story, alternating chapters of the same book (like Steve Erikson does) giving alternating perspectives that build up to a conclusion.

It just takes longer, but I personally think it'll be worth it.

 

[sorco2003]

You saved me from being longwinded about it. Exactly this. Also, because WiaB exists, SG doesn't have to explain the backstory, people can find out, Ocean doesn't need to waste half the story narrative telling the past, outlining relations and connections. Ocean shows Emilio in WiaB, suddenly we know what allegiances Emilio might have. Noji mentions Scarlet, she don't need to go into exposition on who Scarlet is. Katie appears, and there is so little explanation of the Zanes, just Willi's proclivities. It also allows an incredibly detailed backstory.

I still think of the two as parallel timelines in the one story, alternating chapters of the same book (like Steve Erikson does) giving alternating perspectives that build up to a conclusion.

It just takes longer, but I personally think it'll be worth it.

This is what we will never agree on, I don't see them as a single story, but I'm just an old dreamer.

 

[Black Orchid]

You saved me from being longwinded about it. Exactly this. Also, because WiaB exists, SG doesn't have to explain the backstory, people can find out, Ocean doesn't need to waste half the story narrative telling the past, outlining relations and connections.

but he has to spend time developing a second game to along with the other one. what you said would apply if one game was previously finished but it's not. he has to develop two games and the players have to play both of them simultaneously.

 

[BobTheDuck]

but he has to spend time developing a second game to along with the other one. what you said would apply if one game was previously finished but it's not. he has to develop two games and the players have to play both of them simultaneously.

Yeah, and SG was the second game. So by your logic, he should stop SG and finish WiaB before releasing anything more in SG.

I can play both games, and enjoy them for what they are. Let's see how thing actually progress with the new workstation in terms of real world releases. If Ocean goes back to ~2500 renders per update like he said, we could get 2 of these a year, per game at his current speeds. I'd be pretty happy with that.

 

[Black Orchid]

Yeah, and SG was the second game. So by your logic, he should stop SG and finish WiaB before releasing anything more in SG.

how did you come up with this? i just said that what you said makes no sense cause he still has to work on both games at once, so there is no time being saved.

 

[sorco2003]

but he has to spend time developing a second game to along with the other one. what you said would apply if one game was previously finished but it's not. he has to develop two games and the players have to play both of them simultaneously.

Technically, no. You don't need to play SG to play WIAB...
Now, if you are only interested in SG, you can play it without any problem... but if you want to know all the details, you should play WIAB at the same time.
In theory, and at least until now (it may change for reasons) SG can be played independently and you won't miss any of the really important stuff.

 

[BobTheDuck]

how did you come up with this? i just said that what you said makes no sense cause he still has to work on both games at once, so there is no time being saved.

You were talking about hypotheticals if he finished a game first, based on my reply to someone else's comment. At least read back for context.

His first game was WiaB, so to finish a game before continuing - if he decided to do that when Regium quit SG, there would be no SG. Based on the fact at that point WiaB had more content, that would've been the one to finish first. WiaB doesn't need any SG content to be complete, SG does to some extent require WiaB to be consistent.

But it's really not a point to argue, because Ocean's not listening to us, and is doing it the way he wants. There will be an update for each game soon, WiaB maybe in a month? SG maybe in 3-4? Then we'll see if Ocean can pick up speed moving forward, and stop trying to build mountains instead.

 

[Cabin Fever]

I say the main issue with Ocean is that he doing to major long AVN projects at the same time. Because of this, his time is split and he can't put as much time as needed on each project. That is the reason why the time frame between releases feel so long. If he was to focus on 1 project like SG than he can move faster on each update. I also think that the lack of lewd scenes in SG is finally beginning to catch up to it. We're about to enter S2 and there still no signs of a lewd scene. That may change when the new episode drops but the we still don't know. Ocean losing patreon subs slowly is a warning sign that something is wrong and their needs to be a change especially since S1 was released on steam as well in May of last year.

NO, that's not the main issue. The main issue is Ocean keeps revisiting published parts of the story and making changes to both story and render.

 

[JJJ84]

NO, that's not the main issue. The main issue is Ocean keeps revisiting published parts of the story and making changes to both story and render.

This.
Absolutely this.

And sure, he may be done with SG Remake/Remaster....for now...... lol, but let's not forget he's still ongoing with WIAB remake; which while I could be wrong (given I don't keep up to date all that much with WIAB devlogs by Ocean) I'm guessing is still a long way away from completion.

Hearing Ocean frequently buying new Graphics Card or new PC with his devlogs, certainly doesn't alleviate those concerns.
His "perfectionist" mentality is like a double edged sword; on one hand, it makes his games look gorgeous.
But on the other hand, I do think enough is enough at this point in terms of visual quality.
What he should be focusing on is the speed of new episodes, not going back to old ones to do changes, especially given he announced like 30 episodes or something for SG (which, I dunno whether these 2 games will even be completed in my lifetime )

So personally, I hope that he puts any remakes for SG in backburner until the game is completely done.
Same goes for WIAB when he completes his current remake and moves onto new episodes.
He can go to remake or remaster both games how he wants it after all the stories and releases for them are out.

But honestly?
I dunno whether Ocean is able to show such restraint of putting future remakes entirely in backburner until the game is completed.
Cause for all we know, he could still be itching for that remake like someone suddenly going cold turkey.
I guess time will tell.

 

[Ayhsel]

Hearing Ocean frequently buying new Graphics Card or new PC with his devlogs, certainly doesn't alleviate those concerns.
His "perfectionist" mentality is like a double edged sword; on one hand, it makes his games look gorgeous.
But on the other hand, I do think enough is enough at this point in terms of visual quality.
What he should be focusing on is the speed of new episodes, not going back to old ones to do changes, especially given he announced like 30 episodes or something for SG (which, I dunno whether these 2 games will even be completed in my lifetime )

This. Just this! Even forgetting about remakes, the problem is this

Ocean's quality is way above the desired levels. Like if great quality is a 9, Ocean is going for 12. Look at his last post "hey immersion is important so I need 30+ characters but that is why it is taking longer to do this scene". If, after getting a monster machine you are having problem putting 30+ people, DON'T PUT 30 people it in. Almost everyone would tell you after the 20s one the marginal effect of adding another has strong diminishing effects on player's impact but huge effect on production cost.

In fact, we can analyze it with math







Math makes everything more pretty.



EDIT: technically, the finishing time "t hat" should also be a function of Q(t), as it would be the infimum such that integral of Q(t) crosses 1, that is the time in which total output reaches 1. I should fix that.
EDIT2: I missed one term from line 6 to 7. Too lazy to fix it.
EDIT3: It's kind of annoying me . I might fix it when i get home. Fucking OCDs.
EDIT4: still need to edit it. Been playing the most perverted, erotic, absurd porn game of all times. Skyrim.

 

[JJJ84]

This. Just this! Even forgetting about remakes, the problem is this

Ocean's quality is way above the desired levels. Like if great quality is a 9, Ocean is going for 12. Look at his last post "hey immersion is important so I need 30+ characters but that is why it is taking longer to do this scene". If, after getting a monster machine you are having problem putting 30+ people, DON'T PUT 30 people it in. Almost everyone would tell you after the 20s one the marginal effect of adding another has strong diminishing effects on player's impact but huge effect on production cost.

In fact, we can analyze it with math

View attachment 4602696

View attachment 4602678

View attachment 4602691

Math makes everything more pretty.

View attachment 4602688

Yeah, the thing is, if Ocean wants to play around with having 30+ characters at the same time; I'd be fine with - well, with one essential condition, that he finish the original VN first 100%, with 20 characters as the limit.
Cause how many would genuinely care whether if it's the 30 or 20 characters?
I'd say almost everyone (if not literally everyone) won't care.
In fact, people will only get more wary about the impact this will have on his production speed.

While I don't have a problem with him getting monster machines (devs upgrade their PC/GPU, though I'm not sure anyone who does it as frequently as Ocean), what I wish to see is him making these purchases influencing his speed of development and the quantity of renders these new PCs of his are generating increasing.
He's already hit a ceiling in terms of quality, and with PC tech obviously always being outdated, the whole constant remake or increase in detail that temptation will increase.
I mean, it's comparison of 20 vs 30 characters on screen at once now. If in a year from now, he gets another monster PC will he be attempting to put in 50 characters?
It's basically trying to reach a ceiling which is constantly getting higher and higher.

And with remakes/remasters, why bother to go in constant remake cycle if by the time he finish SG (or WIAB, whichever comes first in completion), he's not happy with it and just redoes the entire game with his newest PC with mega GPU at time?
All the constant remake/changes cycle would have been just a big waste of time which could have been much better spent elsewhere.

In essence, Ocean needs to dial down his Quality control a bit & instead dial up on his speed & quantity.

And yes, math makes everything pretty, heh.