Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[seraphimd2]

I agree with part of Seronkai said,allow so many variables to be loaded between new versions its way risky,since you would be risking break your game for loading code strings without the new variables,what i cant really agree is the fact that DC himself said to be aware of the possible changes that patreon could make,and yet didnt prepared a reserve text just in case,he let the easier part of the change kick him on the balls and he didnt even reacted untill he was down on the ground....

 

[Seronkai]

When it comes to savegames it was indeed always somewhat about resources. Sure it could have been done earlier but the questions was to either hire someone who fixes those savegame issues and makes sure that they will stay compatible (as Dogeek will do "now") or to hire someone who helps to implement further content. So the question was always if people prefer more content or more convinience and until now DC went for content which is debatable but - at least for me - understabable.

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, personally, I don't mind waiting for longer so long as there are more ease of use though I can't complain about the amount of content available for this game. I just kinda wish, that it was more simultaneous work on content, even if that would mean there would be less of it along side ease of use such as using old save files. Though like I stated earlier, I don't know the inner workings so I can't say if it could of worked like that earlier. Either way though, it's nice that they are finally addressing the issue and that quite a bit of content is coming our way.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Just ctrl+f to the problem parts. You don't have to completely rewrite anything. Even if you had like 100 pages of dialogue, you'd really only need to change about 30 lines or so.

Well, if you want shit dialogue that no longer makes any goddamn sense, sure!

 

[zeppelin]

I think it has more to do with that there were more characters to deal with rather than the Pateron things. While I think the Patreon annoyance can kinda throw some Devs off until you're sure that you can continue in Pateron, you kinda want to halt production to get everything sorted and make sure you have a livelihood in case you don't manage to get everything sorted. Being a small indie group doesn't help either since if one person stops working, the others will slow down as well. Though since we don't see all the inner workings, I can't say for sure.

Most Ren'py games I see are pretty linear though. Considering this game is a lot more open in terms of what can be done, I'm sure that the save file integration is a lot more of a hassle to deal with. That said, what bothers me a little is that this wasn't address earlier rather than later. While I know that the team was quite a bit more novice than they are now and they needed to call in help to really sort it out, it's still seems like something that should have been looked into sooner.

Yea, I don't know, bro.

Your first paragraph doesn't even attempt to explain why the removal of incest content could possibly take more than 30 minutes. The save issue is fine and all, but I'm not sure how implementing a save system is gonna crash your game.

I worked in Ren'Py quite a few times, it's extremely easy to do a proper save system. Hell, you can learn how to by just watching vids online for free.

Well, if you want shit dialogue that no longer makes any goddamn sense, sure!

This makes 0 sense. What part of the dialogue would make 0 sense? Remove the part of the dialogue that says "she's my mother" or whatever, with another sentence.

Maybe I'll concede that it could take 1-2 hours at most, but still not how long it took.

 

[paulosergio96]

Is it just me or is progress for this insanely slow? Especially considering how much they're making on patreon.

 

[fairyglen]

what he f///k you mean by resources you get around 28.200 a month I get 34.000 a year so your getting around 200.000 a year so come on you can afoud to hire someone a long time a go so fix the saves pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[j4yj4m]

...what i cant really agree is the fact that DC himself said to be aware of the possible changes that patreon could make,and yet didnt prepared a reserve text just in case,he let the easier part of the change kick him on the balls and he didnt even reacted untill he was down on the ground....

Well, to me that's understandable. Preparing would have meant to have backup content ready which has to be written and which takes time. Given the rather big changes some stories get that would mean that you'd have to rewrite that backup content every update until patreon maybe takes action.
So while the way it was handled may not have been the most professional looking it surely was the most economical thing to do. Wait until somethings happens, see what patreon demands and adapt accordingly. In a project like SS every working hour counts and it will take time if the story is meant to make sense for the future.

This makes 0 sense. What part of the dialogue would make 0 sense? Remove the part of the dialogue that says "she's my mother" or whatever, with another sentence.

Maybe I'll concede that it could take 1-2 hours at most, but still not how long it took.

Well, the story has to make sense. You can just say "she is my landlady" and explain nothing about potential relationships etc. and what actually happens. There are quite a few scenes which would make zero sense if you just change mom to landlandy etc. and same goes with Erik's story for example. You'll need additional/changed dialogs which then need additional/new posing etc. and that takes time.

Either way though, it's nice that they are finally addressing the issue and that quite a bit of content is coming our way.

That's indeed true. As things stand now 0.16 saves will be usable in 0.17. At least that's what DC said on stream some days ago.

 

[MrFrenchy16]

Well, to me that's understandable. Preparing would have meant to have backup content ready which has to be written and which takes time. Given the rather big changes some stories get that would mean that you'd have to rewrite that backup content every update until patreon maybe takes action.
So while the way it was handled may not have been the most professional looking it surely was the most economical thing to do. Wait until somethings happens, see what patreon demands and adapt accordingly. In a project like SS every working hour counts and it will take time if the story is meant to make sense for the future.


Well, the story has to make sense. You can just say "she is my landlady" and explain nothing about potential relationships etc. and what actually happens. There are quite a few scenes which would make zero sense if you just change mom to landlandy etc. and same goes with Erik's story for example. You'll need additional/changed dialogs which then need additional/new posing etc. and that takes time.


That's indeed true. As things stand now 0.16 saves will be usable in 0.17. At least that's what DC said on stream some days ago.

Let's not forget it's Patreon (trying to make money off this game) that's causing the issue. Just give it to us devoted leechers of free games and they wouldn't have to change anything. hihihihi (i'm not being serious in my comment,please don't beat me and leave my body in the ditch somewhere)

 

[seraphimd2]

Well,the 3 last updates were faster than this one but i give the benefit of the trust to DC cuz he seems to been trying to put a entire line in just one update with 4 characters with their distinct interactions...i will wait and see of my trust was well given since i cant give him my money anymore

 

[zeppelin]

Well, the story has to make sense. You can just say "she is my landlady" and explain nothing about potential relationships etc. and what actually happens. There are quite a few scenes which would make zero sense if you just change mom to landlandy etc. and same goes with Erik's story for example. You'll need additional/changed dialogs which then need additional/new posing etc. and that takes time.

I still refuse to believe it would've taken more than 1-2 hours. Hell, with how much money they're making off of this, they could've hired some poor Indian that could've done it for like $20 in less.

 

[JustAnotherFapper]

Its possible Lewd Patcher make a patch for incest after that update?

 

[Seronkai]

Yea, I don't know, bro.

Your first paragraph doesn't even attempt to explain why the removal of incest content could possibly take more than 30 minutes. The save issue is fine and all, but I'm not sure how implementing a save system is gonna crash your game.

I worked in Ren'Py quite a few times, it's extremely easy to do a proper save system. Hell, you can learn how to by just watching vids online for free.

What I was trying to get at is that perhaps it wasn't the removal of the incest that slowed them down, more the politics behind it. While I sort of agree with you that they may be able to quickly rewrite some of the dialog since, while I don't think you can just change how characters refer to you, looking for the dialog pieces that need to be change and altering them to work with "landlady" or something is possible. Though I think dealing with the politics of Patreon along with the perhaps large amount of extra content, can slow you down.

Since I don't know how far you've work with Ren'py, I can't vouch for the difference between your work vs DC's SS but at the very least, with the little bit of programing and working with Ren'py, I find that the amount of possible variable that may break is quite a bit unless you really work it in the system early... which they didn't but we'll have to live with that.

 

[PatreonTed]

Yea, I don't know, bro.

Your first paragraph doesn't even attempt to explain why the removal of incest content could possibly take more than 30 minutes. The save issue is fine and all, but I'm not sure how implementing a save system is gonna crash your game.

I worked in Ren'Py quite a few times, it's extremely easy to do a proper save system. Hell, you can learn how to by just watching vids online for free.

I eagerly await your adult game given how easy all of it is for you. Should be a good one. Be sure to link it here for us.

 

[zeppelin]

I eagerly await your adult game given how easy all of it is for you. Should be a good one. Be sure to link it here for us.

So because I said changing dialogue and working a save system is easy, that means I implied making a successful game is easy?

Please. You can like the game all you want, but don't get butthurt if I point out the devs are just lazy.

 

[PatreonTed]

So because I said changing dialogue and working a save system is easy, that means I implied making a successful game is easy?

Please. You can like the game all you want, but don't get butthurt if I point out the devs are just lazy.

I don't think they are lazy, I think you vastly underestimate the work involved.

 

[zeppelin]

I don't think they are lazy, I think you vastly underestimate the work involved.

I disagree.

 

[Deep-Six]

The problem with the saves is that every new update the variables get changed and they need to be defined again since if you play with non--defined (missing) variables, the game will eventually crash.

This normally wouldn't be a problem with a simple straight forward visual novel, but since this shit has a lot of variables and the code is probably a mess (that might be why every update the variables change) it's a lot harder to do.

I still think this will be fixed by .16 or .17.

 

[vlad1sme]

the change of status of the family brought a lot of changes you know. it has to be dealt appropriately.
for example : DC has to give proper explanation why a landlady always wear nightgown all day long knowing there is a boy on his puberty living with her family.
and any interaction with the surrounding character has to be altered. like why the hell he took a long rest from school after his father or now landlord passed away. or how to explain why the MC has to earn money when he is just an occupant. or about his status ?? is he an orphan or just a boy who want to live alone away from his parents and many more. those thing are the most troublesome to fix you know. it's not just a few lines to fix.

 

[GatsbyGrey]

So he's been streaming Roxy lately. That's next build correct?

 

[Vordertur]

This makes 0 sense. What part of the dialogue would make 0 sense? Remove the part of the dialogue that says "she's my mother" or whatever, with another sentence.

Maybe I'll concede that it could take 1-2 hours at most, but still not how long it took.

The original plot is about a kid, his mother, and his sister, all dealing with the aftermath of his father getting in debt with the local mob and being offed as a result of it. The story hangs on this premise, on the intermingling of the relationships of these characters, on the "baggage" associated with them being a family.

Debbie is lonely because she's lost her husband. She wants to do right by her son, but what does that mean? Helping him out, sexually? It just might. And she's torn as a result. If that relationship "goes away" then you have to rewrite that entire facet of the plot because there's no moral quandary to be had between a middle-aged woman and the college-aged kid renting a room in her house.

One of the main objectives is figuring out what really happened to the main character's father. As I said earlier, it's pretty much a given that he ran afoul of the local criminal element and they killed him for it, but if this character (i.e. Debbie's husband) is no longer the player character's father, then what impetus is there for the player to investigate his death?

That sort of rewrite can't be accomplished by doing a simple Find/Replace. Not if you want the storyline to actually hold together under even minimal scrutiny.