Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[orrayt3x]

POLL RESULTS:

 

[Ungawa]

Instead, creators like DC should be able to say "this time there will be no family members in this poll because I want to focus on something different". He can do that, damn the detractors. In a creative endeavour, what the fanbase think they want isn't always what creates the best end-result, and constantly having a "tyranny of the majority" isn't good either, as it can alienate minority fan groups.

The problem is in how the content is created. We don't have a "tyranny of the majority" situation at all since the only people allowed into the voting are the ones with the money to pay for it in the first place. So that narrows down the constituents considerably. Then, you look at why they're paying in the first place. What brought them there? Odds are it's the family section more so than the just added teachers or Eve or other side characters that haven't developed.

Finally, the voting tends to favor those characters with a pre-installed fanbase. Let's say out of 100 votes, 35 of those is to Debbie, 25 is to Diana, 15 to Jenny, and the other 25 are to other characters.

Guess who's going to win the polling every time? Debbie and Diana. That's First Past the Post voting. No way to calculate who the majority of people wanted (35 people wanting Debbie out of 100 is far different from taking the most votes until you get a majority concensus...) you just take the most "vocal group" which dictates where the most interest goes.

That means you get far more "family updates" than anything else which actually stagnates the game long term.

Personally, I'd move away from character updates for a bit and make it more about say... A sports update that garners interest in 3 characters and their stories. Do that two or three times so that it's similar content but which wouldn't win an individual poll against the popular personal characters, and I'm sure interest in new fandoms would be cultivated.

To me, it's kinda like wrestling. If you aren't that strong in singles matches, get a tag team partner to help build you up. Very similar things to do in building content that can finally progress past what we've seen so far.

 

[Vibescu]

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[unknown78]

Doesn't everyone just cheat money to 9999 and buy them all?

Uh... no? Some people play the game as intended.

Well your case is very weird. I have played the game a lot of times, and in every one of them she ask for the Electroclit, and in this month I had to play the version 15.1, 15.2 and 15.3 and everytime she ask for the same thing: the Electroclit. She shows you the buttplug on her hand, but she says clearly the other toy. But what you say is right: maybe a reminder of what you have to buy could be helpful.

This has been my experience as well. Always the Electroclit first. Never the buttplug.

 

[Darkaura]

Uh... no? Some people play the game as intended.

Yeah, most of us have done that many times over, thanks to a lack of a save mechanic that spans releases. Now we just want to get to new content ASAP. I've been playing and Patroning since at least .11, I'm sick of Rap Battle, Panty Quest and even the button mashing for Strength. I don't want to do it ever again.

Some newb with six comments and no likes getting uppity about how to play a game is rich.

Diane won with just over 40 more votes than Jenny! (Diane: 1192 / Jenny: 1152). Which means we will be focusing our efforts onto Diane for the update following Roxxy. Once Diane is over, we will follow with Jenny for 0.18.
​

Sweet.

 

[Crawdaddy]

EDIT: If you're sick of old content, why are you playing old content again?
Also, why are you playing the grindy, slow version when you can just play the "fap" version where you can cheat the minigames and have near-infinite money? It's literally a part of the release.

And lastly, why would Jenny hold up the thing she wants you to buy? That makes literally no sense.

> Maybe finally come true with that idea of having Diane move in with the rest of the family.

It's a good idea but there should be a choice/consequence to it. Example: she can move in, but if she does, she'll sell her property and you can't make money gardening anymore.

Doesn't really need to be like that. I'm sure you could work in some trigger whereby she goes to her own house to do gardening or the milk business.

The problem is in how the content is created. We don't have a "tyranny of the majority" situation at all since the only people allowed into the voting are the ones with the money to pay for it in the first place. So that narrows down the constituents considerably. Then, you look at why they're paying in the first place. What brought them there? Odds are it's the family section more so than the just added teachers or Eve or other side characters that haven't developed.

Finally, the voting tends to favor those characters with a pre-installed fanbase. Let's say out of 100 votes, 35 of those is to Debbie, 25 is to Diana, 15 to Jenny, and the other 25 are to other characters.

Guess who's going to win the polling every time? Debbie and Diana. That's First Past the Post voting. No way to calculate who the majority of people wanted (35 people wanting Debbie out of 100 is far different from taking the most votes until you get a majority concensus...) you just take the most "vocal group" which dictates where the most interest goes.

That means you get far more "family updates" than anything else which actually stagnates the game long term.

Personally, I'd move away from character updates for a bit and make it more about say... A sports update that garners interest in 3 characters and their stories. Do that two or three times so that it's similar content but which wouldn't win an individual poll against the popular personal characters, and I'm sure interest in new fandoms would be cultivated.

To me, it's kinda like wrestling. If you aren't that strong in singles matches, get a tag team partner to help build you up. Very similar things to do in building content that can finally progress past what we've seen so far.

Just to clarify one thing first; I was obviously talking about paying patrons when using the phrase "tyranny of the majority" to begin with. Non-voting non-patrons were irrelevant to my discussions.

The whole "some characters are more popular than others" is a basis of my comment, not a conclusion to be drawn from it. Yes, of course they are more popular, so they're going to win more.

My point, aside from the point about creative vision sometimes trumping popular will, is more that in a functioning, proper democracy, even the minority gets their way every now and then, because that keeps the peace. First past the post is a terrible system.

 

[Ungawa]

Yeah, most of us have done that many times over, thanks to a lack of a save mechanic that spans releases. Now we just want to get to new content ASAP. I've been playing and Patroning since at least .11, I'm sick of Rap Battle, Panty Quest and even the button mashing for Strength. I don't want to do it ever again.

Some newb with six comments and no likes getting uppity about how to play a game is rich.

Good news from the post up above:

Having the entire game switched to the new codebase will also allow us to work towards making saved files compatible across versions, which has been one of the main complaints about SS so far.

 

[Chillemodude]

Hope someone is able to help. I’m playing version 0.15.30 on android,after finishing the Helen storyline,I have some issues with the exception of sister and aunt and mrs. Johnson,everyone thing else with other characters is reset. I can no longer enter the lifeguard’s room,can’t enter church at night. All teachers classrooms are empty no more fun with them. Only thing that ya changed was me completing the Helen storyline. I have 2 saves one where I chose to “purify” Helen and one where I let the nun do it. I can post both saves if anyone wants to dig into them. I unfortunately do not have a save before completing the Helen storyline. I’ve looked here and on the discord and Reddit and don’t see anyone having anything remotely similar. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Ungawa]

Just to clarify one thing first; I was obviously talking about paying patrons when using the phrase "tyranny of the majority" to begin with. Non-voting non-patrons were irrelevant to my discussions.

Agreed, just pointing out how that hampers the voting and forces narrower margins.

The whole "some characters are more popular than others" is a basis of my comment, not a conclusion to be drawn from it. Yes, of course they are more popular, so they're going to win more.

True, and given that the coding seems to be updating with Diane in this new update we might see other characters garner more favor.

My point, aside from the point about creative vision sometimes trumping popular will, is more that in a functioning, proper democracy, even the minority gets their way every now and then, because that keeps the peace. First past the post is a terrible system.

I live in America. You don't have to tell me that one.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Haha, all right, man. :closedeyesmile: Looks like we're on the same page.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Hope someone is able to help. I’m playing version 0.15.30 on android,after finishing the Helen storyline,I have some issues with the exception of sister and aunt and mrs. Johnson,everyone thing else with other characters is reset. I can no longer enter the lifeguard’s room,can’t enter church at night. All teachers classrooms are empty no more fun with them. Only thing that ya changed was me completing the Helen storyline. I have 2 saves one where I chose to “purify” Helen and one where I let the nun do it. I can post both saves if anyone wants to dig into them. I unfortunately do not have a save before completing the Helen storyline. I’ve looked here and on the discord and Reddit and don’t see anyone having anything remotely similar. Thanks in advance for any help.

I know a lot of people have had issues with characters resetting before, I'm not sure if it was related to console editing or some other thing. Might be worth giving the thread a search.

 

[roger545353535353]

I dont know about you guys but im down for an advancement of Debbie, Diane and Jenny stories regardless of incest. They could add some dialogue where u only have to change the names and it would be incest again. IMO they are the best characters and some more content with them would be nice.

They are the best because they are the ones who are always worked on since the massive amounts of 1 dollar patreons vote for them.

Good news from the post up above:

It's about time, kinda tiresome replaying the same 3 hours of gameplay over and over again every update.

 

[Chillemodude]

I know a lot of people have had issues with characters resetting before, I'm not sure if it was related to console editing or some other thing. Might be worth giving the thread a search.

Ok I’ll look around thanks

 

[a1fox3]

DarkCookie-Today at 8:19 AM

@Everyone Diane won the next update poll! Can't wait for all the milk boys.

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Official Post from DarkCookie: Results: Diane won with just over 40 more votes than Jenny! (Diane: 1192 / Jenny: 1152). Which means we will be focusing our efforts onto Diane for the update following Roxxy. Once Diane is over, we will follow with Jenny for 0.18.
What can I expect from Diane's update (0.17)?:

• Diane has a decent story flow so far, but her ending is rushed and could use some polish and closure. We will be adding a stronger ending to her story with many new events leading to pregnancy (and the pregnancy feature!). There will be a greater emphasis on her milk business, where she appears around her house and how the player interacts with Diane and her business. Diane will also be able to move in with Debbie! Her home will reveal a surprise ending, new hscenes and animations will also be added, as well as old scene reworks.

 

[lazeran]

We Want Pregnant ! Thank you!

 

[BitesZaDusto]

Waking up to these poll results as a Jenny fan.


Disclaimer: I'm also a Diane fan and I'm looking forward to her update, I'm just disappointed since the Roxxy update seemed involved Jenny somehow with that one scene of Jenny pulling up Roxxy to her room and I thought her route would've been a good follow up to Roxxy's. Also, I still don't like the fact how the fact how majority of the scenes you fuck Jenny in, end with her bitching at you unlike the other girls so it would've been nice to break through that barrier. But at least it's the next confirmed route after Diane unless DC does another poll again. The main thing that's just going to kill me is the update window between 0.16 and 0.18, if the releases are as big 0.15 and 0.16. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jenny update comes out in November/December.

At least we get to enjoy some "milk" in 0.17.

 

[whosthatguy]

That means you get far more "family updates" than anything else which actually stagnates the game long term.

I'd argue what's stagnating the game is building from the middle out. There is still no endgame in sight, despite having "three goals" that you can't do anything to work toward. And it looks like there's no intention to ever get going on that. How do you know? The game used to have a stated goal of "save $25,000 for college" (which is a good money sink) and now it's "save money for next semester's tuition" in some unspecified amount so you can't actually complete the goal, but now they added a $30,000 beach house. Hell, they even removed the goals from the phone. There's also no time/day limit: you apparently start the game on April 3rd (your father dies on March 3rd and it's a month later) but the end of classes never happens. You never reach summer in Summertime Saga. If that time constraint ever happens, players will quickly realize there's so much shit to do that you have to start making choices and not follow certain characters' storylines (after all, you're supposed to find only one date for the ball.)

It certainly doesn't help that lots of people just want to play the cheat version: they don't want to work for anything. They pretty much don't even want Summertime Saga to be a game. As long as people want that instant gratification, there won't be an incentive to actually have an ending to the game (who needs an ending when we can have a 95th h-scene with not-your-mother?)

 

[Ungawa]

I'd argue what's stagnating the game is building from the middle out. There is still no endgame in sight, despite having "three goals" that you can't do anything to work toward. And it looks like there's no intention to ever get going on that. How do you know? The game used to have a stated goal of "save $25,000 for college" (which is a good money sink) and now it's "save money for next semester's tuition" in some unspecified amount so you can't actually complete the goal, but now they added a $30,000 beach house. Hell, they even removed the goals from the phone. There's also no time/day limit: you apparently start the game on April 3rd (your father dies on March 3rd and it's a month later) but the end of classes never happens. You never reach summer in Summertime Saga. If that time constraint ever happens, players will quickly realize there's so much shit to do that you have to start making choices and not follow certain characters' storylines (after all, you're supposed to find only one date for the ball.)

It certainly doesn't help that lots of people just want to play the cheat version: they don't want to work for anything. They pretty much don't even want Summertime Saga to be a game. As long as people want that instant gratification, there won't be an incentive to actually have an ending to the game (who needs an ending when we can have a 95th h-scene with not-your-mother?)

I'm almost done with U15 so I'm gonna write up an assessment. I don't think everyone wants to play the cheat version, they just don't want to repeat content that they've already passed that isn't much different. Building up mom differently in the U14s? Fair. Doing rap battles and other chore work with no actual progress? Boring.

I certainly don't disagree with your first paragraph, but the time constraint could be put in AFTER all the content is there. VNs have the ability of not being funded for month by month progress since the publishers have built engines and less public hassles to their work. Honestly, I never expected that one to be used much given that the game lacked content from jump and DC wasn't the best programmer out there.

Overall, the point is that SS has its own strengths and weaknesses that should be considered. Putting it to a vote certainly works but DC should still do this stuff regardless of what his buyers want all the time though. It works out a bit better in the long run.

 

[j4yj4m]

@whosthatguy
I guess it does make sense to not tease late game content that isn't implemented at this point and remove goals that can't be reached. We'll get the content eventually and until then it's not really worth focussing on it. The overall balance will happen once the game is finished and until then it's just about making things as playable as possible and to not make people worry about goals they can't reach.

Else I'd argue that cheats are necessary as long as old savegames don't work. I've replayed parts of the game 10 times and more and I really don't want to play the same games again and again and again just to buy the same items again and again.

In general DC seems to have pretty clear plan on how he want's the game to be and thus I'm pretty sure that we won't see strange imbalances. The mom story for example is basically done and likely won't get any major updates anymore (except what's needed for other stories of course).

Last but not least I'd say that the actual end of the game should be one of last updates since quite a few people will lose interest once the main story completed and their fav character is more or less done and that should be avoided in my opinion.

 

[Crawdaddy]

The storyline advancement is one of those things DC should take executive authority with, as it were. Since it's *never* going to win a poll on its own, but it's still an important element that'll make the gameplay experience improved, even if people can't see it now.

The alternative is to join the storyline together with a female character in some fashion, or promise a certain number of H-scenes with it.