I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.
A move MC learns no matter what is his bone spike tails (forgettin actual name) but they played an important role in MC's early training and potential fight against Ella.
If the MC fights Ella he uses them but if he decides not to he still learns to use em (if I remember right).
So the MC is bound to learn things if they are important enough with or without the person or event causing it to appear to begin with (cause he'll come up with it on his own).
I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her unimportant? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.
Not really. Even with her dead, he likely would've learned it at a later date, if the situation arose for it. That's also not the level of importance I'm referring to. Relegating her to a skill teacher would still lead her to the same level of importance or lack there of. Once the MC learned it, her use is gone yet again.
I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.
Narratively it may be somewhat important, but practically this game does not have such RPG elements. There hasn't been a single instance where MC learned a new ability from gated content, statwise or choicewise. MC's progression is pretty much on rails.
A move MC learns no matter what is his bone spike tails (forgettin actual name) but they played an important role in MC's early training and potential fight against Ella.
If the MC fights Ella he uses them but if he decides not to he still learns to use em (if I remember right).
So the MC is bound to learn things if they are important enough with or without the person or event causing it to appear to begin with (cause he'll come up with it on his own).
Not really. Even with her dead, he likely would've learned it at a later date, if the situation arose for it. That's also not the level of importance I'm referring to. Relegating her to a skill teacher would still lead her to the same level of importance or lack there of. Once the MC learned it, her use is gone yet again.
Narratively it may be somewhat important, but practically this game does not have such RPG elements. There hasn't been a single instance where MC learned a new ability from gated content, statwise or choicewise. MC's progression is pretty much on rails.
I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.
Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.
I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.
Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.
Mmm, I'm not sure I explained myself well here. Let me put it a different way. Before, with the bone tail and the poison tentacles, it wasn't a whole new power, it was putting pieces together of powers he already had and was aware of. With this, he 1) Never saw Ella use the whole "immunity through freezing the transformation" ability, so he would need to learn it through either Nyx or the teleport lady (forgot her name), 2) Would somehow need to make the jump to realize that he can use it on people other than himself, and 3) Would be in a situation where he values learning a whole brand new skill, which he would have no idea as to whether or not it is even possible for him to do, as opposed to reinforcing the abilities he currently possesses, something he has stated is his goal as learning a bunch of weaker techniques isn't as important to him as mastering the few techniques he does know. All put together, I think it would be really really out of place for him to suddenly figure this out on his own.
Man, it's been like 15 hours. Fifteen. Let it go, all he said was that characters that are killable tend to get the amount of content they receive significantly reduced, which is objectively undeniably true as no developer wants to waste hours on end for something most players might never see. He never said NO content, he said LESS.
At no point did he state that lore was more important than saving a character, which would be a stupid thing to say when the game is a damn visual novel that encourages multiple playthroughs. Nor did he say that there 100% wouldn't be any payoff to saving a character, as he literally just mentioned several instances where the developer either changed something (the 100 power check) or had something pay off way, way later (Tiffany finally giving you your power after so much time waiting). He knows the future of development and story is unpredictable just as much as you do.
You're fighting demons of your own conjuring, jumping at shadows and strawmen of your own imagining based on an accidental misreading and plain ignorance. Let it go. Or at least try and fight in the off-topic before a mod comes and straight up fucks all of us, nukes most of the fucking page and drops the threat of a thread ban. They can and will do that if the wrong one comes along. Again. Seriously.
I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.
Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.
Mmm, I'm not sure I explained myself well here. Let me put it a different way. Before, with the bone tail and the poison tentacles, it wasn't a whole new power, it was putting pieces together of powers he already had and was aware of. With this, he 1) Never saw Ella use the whole "immunity through freezing the transformation" ability, so he would need to learn it through either Nyx or the teleport lady (forgot her name), 2) Would somehow need to make the jump to realize that he can use it on people other than himself, and 3) Would be in a situation where he values learning a whole brand new skill, which he would have no idea as to whether or not it is even possible for him to do, as opposed to reinforcing the abilities he currently possesses, something he has stated is his goal as learning a bunch of weaker techniques isn't as important to him as mastering the few techniques he does know. All put together, I think it would be really really out of place for him to suddenly figure this out on his own.
Pretty sure he doesn't have to use it for it to be passed down knowledge. What happened with Jake doesn't compare to what happened with MC. For one, MC didn't pass out during the evolution and thus has all of the info still up there. Him not having the proper amount of skill or even attempting to use it during the trance then and there doesn't mean it's lost forever. It's kept there like other abilities.
So no, I don't think Laurie is important for even that skill. He would stumble across it eventually. Especially if he wants to beat Evander since making himself stay in a frozen state during attacks would counter that destruction ability.
No, you made many errors. I really didn't want to deconstruct everything but I hope these examples will suffice.
1) The Deryl 100 power check is for Laurie, if you don't Hesitate you automatically win the fight without checks. Against Rebis Deryl you only need 1 derylwin point that you can get by destroying the sword.
2) You don't need Tiffany's money because you gain enough to buy anything important as of the latest update, from perfect relationship score with Amber/Emily to all the new items from Shopkeep, as long as you give a detailed description of the ceremony infiltration. I explained this on a post a few pages back. You probably have enough money to buy a dildo too although I don't bother with that content.
3) If you have less than 28 skill agaisnt the Asura you just miss 1 skill point and 1 relationship point, you gain the +10 power and money no matter what as long as you agree to fight it.
4) You can reach 100 power without the horn. Max power attainable before evolution is 115. The horn accounts for 10 of it.
5) There are only 2 relationship checks in the game. Jake which determines if he will force you to shoot yourself during prison, and Nico for the sex scene. Every other interaction is based on boolean variables. WW himself has said in the past that relationship points are not very important and you can successfully complete all college romances by being a complete asshole to them if you know what you are doing.
Aside from that, you are debating with a strawman, saying that I'm speculating when I state facts or arguing that I support killing the cast, while completely disregarding the only actual point I've tried to make, which is speculation about the eye based on an educated guess after taking a look at the script.
I don't typically debate with people who blatantly refuse to read what I've written and then try to poke holes at an argument when I've already answered it. None of my points are referring to what you need to beat the fight. I'm referring to requirements for an optimal fight outcome. I am literally repeating what I've said before because no one can read. I'm not going to spend more time pointing out everything you're speculating
1. That's false. If the 100 power check is for Laurie, then I should have gotten it first try on my Corruption playthrough. It's not until I have 28 Skill where you get the Laurie check. 100 power is for Deryl's Hesistate check because on my 1st playthrough I had 99 power and never got the Hesitate option. I have that evidence because I did it 2 days ago. In fact, it's clearly stated on the Walkthrough. We're not debating what you need to do to beat the fight but what it takes to get an optimal fight. The Hesitate option gives you +3 Deryl points. It's for Deryl, NOT Laurie. I already said that, so I'm not wrong
2. I already mentioned what Tiffany money is about. It's necessary if you want maximum Emily and Amber affection. If you say that's false, then you are a liar. I said that you also need it if you want to buy Monster Pincer and Spine
3. Either way that's still a loss and it proves that corruption isn't the only thing that snowballs. My point is that stats snowball because you need enough stats to pass the stat check to get more stats. Missing stat points means that you might miss out on future stat checks, which was my whole point. I'm not going to debate what snowballing means.
4. It depends on what path. You don't even bother to mention the path. If you read what I said, you'd know I clearly said you can get 100 power without horn on the corruption path. BUT you will still be short 3 Skill from being at 28 Skill. I specifically mentioned that you need Horn and Red Light monster to reach 100+ power on Purity Path. How was I wrong?
5. That's fine, but I never talked about Jake or the prison. If relationship points are not that important, then how come there's a stat check on one of Brianna's H-scenes where you need 3 or more Brianna affection? If you do the Corruption route, and you kill the cops in the mall, you'll get -2 Brianna on the 2nd TV interview. Overall the corruption path seems to also add another -1 Brianna deficit compared to the Purity path. So when you get to her promotion, you'll have 2 Brianna points,which makes you 1 short of getting her H-scene. These are the facts. I had to redo my corruption path to account for that.
I'm glad we agree, because that's the point I was making. You are SPECULATING. It's not fact. We don't know if that's significant or not. We don't know what it really means or if that monster lore is really worth a damn. My whole point was that we do know that optimal fights/events have historically yielded better rewards. If you're going to tell me that being rewarded with more stuff is worse than speculative lore, then I disagree
e.g. Valravn: optimal fight earns his respect and he'll actually talk to you
e.g. Deryl: optimal fight yields +3 Deryl points and saves Laurie
e.g. Nyx Heist: optimal heist yields +10 power
Well, when you really put out what Laurie has and how important she could be to the plot, it amounts to miniscule gain.
- Laurie has a crystal infection power, which isn't really all that important after the Battle of Diamonds. Especially when we're starting to fight Level 3/Class B stuff.
- She's Level 2, which also means she's not all that important in HERO.
- Outside of low level monsters, she's pretty useless.
- Her monster parent likely is some random B Class or lower monster so it likely plays no part in the later game.
- She isn't exactly strong while also being mentally weak. Sure, her infection will handle most things near her Level, but her progression is slow and she's not all that reliable if it fails to work. As seen when she fought Deryl's Chimera.
- We already had sex with her once so there's no sex scene obligation needed for her.
When you really look at her kit and her position in HERO, it's absolutely safe to say she'll be irrelevant going forward. She's not like Alice, Michael, Deryl and MC. They all have unique things that uplifts them. If Laurie was a much better fighter or had something that heavily tied into the plot, then maybe I could see her being important in the future. She, unfortunately, doesn't have anything which is why she was killed off by Jared.
That's your opinion and you're speculating that she's useless, that's not fact because you are not the developer. weezal is correct, we'll have to wait and see. But if you have to pick between monster lore OR saving Laurie, I'd rather pick an optimal Deryl fight and saving Laurie.
Man, it's been like 15 hours. Fifteen. Let it go, all he said was that characters that are killable tend to get the amount of content they receive significantly reduced, which is objectively undeniably true as no developer wants to waste hours on end for something most players might never see. He never said NO content, he said LESS.
At no point did he state that lore was more important than saving a character, which would be a stupid thing to say when the game is a damn visual novel that encourages multiple playthroughs. Nor did he say that there 100% wouldn't be any payoff to saving a character, as he literally just mentioned several instances where the developer either changed something (the 100 power check) or had something pay off way, way later (Tiffany finally giving you your power after so much time waiting). He knows the future of development and story is unpredictable just as much as you do.
You're fighting demons of your own conjuring, jumping at shadows and strawmen of your own imagining based on an accidental misreading and plain ignorance. Let it go. Or at least try and fight in the off-topic before a mod comes and straight up fucks all of us, nukes most of the fucking page and drops the threat of a thread ban. They can and will do that if the wrong one comes along. Again. Seriously.
Yeah, you clearly don't read. How about you learn to read before telling people what to do?
He did speculate and he did admit to it. End of story. He is speculating that picking Eye and monster lore is more important than saving Laurie. That's it. You can agree with it if you want. I don't care
That's your opinion and you're speculating that she's useless, but that's completely unknown. weezal is correct, we'll have to wait and see. But if you have to pick between monster lore OR saving Laurie, I'd rather pick an optimal Deryl fight and saving Laurie.
I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.
It's not whether we learn her crystal ability that makes Laurie important. It's that she may have a role to play in a big fight and having her exist can perhaps buy us time to recover or to land an important attack. Her ability is CC, which is handy to have.
Think about it like Brianna's role in the Valravn. She isn't winning the fight for us, but she did buy us time in a crucial moment to turn the fight around. That's all speculation of course.
But I think it's reasonable to expect some kind of reward from her for saving her.
I don't typically debate with people who blatantly refuse to read what I've written and then try to poke holes at an argument when I've already answered it. None of my points are referring to what you need to beat the fight. I'm referring to requirements for an optimal fight outcome. I am literally repeating what I've said before because no one can read. I'm not going to spend more time pointing out everything you're speculating
1. That's false. If the 100 power check is for Laurie, then I should have gotten it first try on my Corruption playthrough. It's not until I have 28 Skill where you get the Laurie check. 100 power is for Deryl's Hesistate check because on my 1st playthrough I had 99 power and never got the Hesitate option. I have that evidence because I did it 2 days ago. We're not debating what you need to do to beat the fight but what it takes to get an optimal fight. The Hesitate option gives you +3 Deryl points. I already said that, so I'm not wrong
2. I already mentioned what Tiffany money is about. It's necessary if you want maximum Emily and Amber affection. If you say that's false, then you are a liar. I said that you also need it if you want to buy Monster Pincer and Spine
3. Either way that's still a loss and it proves that corruption isn't the only thing that snowballs. My point is that stats snowball because you need enough stats to pass the stat check to get more stats. Missing stat points means that you might miss out on future stat checks, which was my whole point. I'm not going to debate what snowballing means.
4. It depends on what path. You don't even bother to mention the path. If you read what I said, you'd know I clearly said you can get 100 power without horn on the corruption path. BUT you will still be short 3 Skill from being at 28 Skill. I specifically mentioned that you need Horn and Red Light monster to reach 100+ power on Purity Path. How was I wrong?
5. That's fine, but I never talked about Jake or the prison. If relationship points are not that important, then how come there's a stat check on one of Brianna's H-scenes where you need 3 or more Brianna affection? If you do the Corruption route, and you kill the cops in the mall, you'll get -2 Brianna on the 2nd TV interview. Overall the corruption path seems to also add another -1 Brianna deficit compared to the Purity path. So when you get to her promotion, you'll have 2 Brianna points,which makes you 1 short of getting her H-scene. These are the facts. I had to redo my corruption path to account for that.
I'm glad we agree, because that's the point I was making. You are SPECULATING. It's not fact. We don't know if that's significant or not. We don't know what it really means or if that monster lore is really worth a damn. My whole point was that we do know that optimal fights have historically yielded better rewards. If you're going to tell me that being rewarded with more stuff is worse than speculative lore, then I disagree
e.g. Valravn: optimal fight earns his respect and he'll actually talk to you
e.g. Deryl: optimal fight yields +3 Deryl points and saves Laurie
e.g. Nyx Heist: optimal heist yields +10 power
Ok, this is getting boring.
For the numbered points, you are right about Brianna, but nothing else. And what's that about not talking about Jake. You either care about relationship points or you don't. I'm not sure what you are getting at, considering that you bolded it.
You are wrong about the Deryl fight becase you can Hesitate if you fight the Wepwawet, you are doubly wrong because you think that getting relationship points is optimal when they are completely useless.
Before the hotfix, it was either fuck Aglaecwif or save Laurie. These two choices were mutually exclusive, because the only way to save Laurie was to kill the Wepwawet. Now you can fuck Aglaecwif and if you have 100 power and 28 skill, you can also save Laurie. You can go full power playthrough with Valravn respect, Aglaecwif and Laurie by choosing horn and asking Aglaecwif for skill.
Tiffany's money are not necessary to maximize Amber and Emily relationship or to buy the new shopkeep items. Maximizing Amber and Emily relationship points is a completely useless stat that shouldn't even be mentioned in a discussion about optimization, especially when there exists a choice that gives you 30 power instead. Emily's quest costs 40$ and Amber's 600$. You can make more than that at this point (around 1600$ while still in college iirc)
Snowball means what snowball means. I'm not in your head to understand that you simply mean "passing the checks to unlock content". Corruption content depends on corruption choices and is sacrificial in nature. For anything else, no matter if you are playing a power first, skill first or corruption first walkthrough, there is a sequence of choices that will unlock everything.
You clearly don't understand what optimal means, you argue for useless stats that are not used in the game in favor of booleans, you think that maximizing any arbitrary stat is important for some reason. It doesn't work that way. The game is in version 0.97. To unlock all the content, you don't need to max any arbitrary stat. You need to gather enough stats to pass the specific checks that exist in the game, and there is a sequence of choices that allows you to do it. From there on, it depends on the specific player to avoid certain content if he doesn't like it.
Lastly, and that's the important part because I've already said it numerous times throughout this discussion, I made it perfectly clear that I speculated on the future use of the eye from the get go. This is not what you argued against. Your point was about Laurie.
My statement about characters who can die getting less content is 100% true, it's countable and more obvious than the sun. I don't care if you think otherwise, but if that's what you try to oppose, you should stop. From there on I don't care if a player wants to keep a character alive or kill him. If they don't know how to do it I will tell them, but killing Danica and Jake give stats, and you can get more power if you ignore Laurie while passing the Asura check by prioritizing the +3 skill item from shopkeep. It's up to the player to decide if he wants to maximize power, skill, corruption, keep all characters alive or eat them all. There always exists a path that unlocks all the content.
If they don't know how to do it I will tell them, but killing Danica and Jake give stats, and you can get more power if you ignore Laurie while passing the Asura check by prioritizing the +3 skill item from shopkeep. It's up to the player to decide if he wants to maximize power, skill, corruption, keep all characters alive or eat them all. There always exists a path that unlocks all the content.
Wasn't there a screen before killing/sparing Jake where WW was like "hey this choice is important", if there is isn't that the only use of that so far?
Wasn't there a screen before killing/sparing Jake where WW was like "hey this choice is important", if there is isn't that the only use of that so far?
I don't remember this one. Perhaps you are referring to MC's thoughts, who basically tells us that killing Jake will end all possibility for a Mia romance. I'm paraphrasing but I remember something of the sort. Of course Mia is nowhere to be found, so I'd rather ignore her alltogether and fasttrack a new playthrough if she ever becomes relevant.
If another screen existed in some previous update, it doesn't seem to exist now.
Hmmm, I wonder if killing Wang will have consequences in the future... We're gonna get to v0.112b and there's gonna be an update where a character kills off a love interest, but if Wang wasn't killed they end up shanking the dude before he could ever show up, saving them. I love this game, but I wish the universal ren'py mod came with a "skip already seen text until next choice/menu" button.
Yea I was doing that same run as my main and only run through the story aswell until i realised I was missing out some bonus content with low corruption.
Too bad we couldn't just reprogram Bailey to go out there and find the other regular black slime zombie gals and lead them to us so MC could build a secret lil black slime/oil monster army/orgy ... Bailey's physical endurance is sorely missed.
Those small advantages and choices wind up making a big difference in major fight outcomes. I would not be surprised if the story's true ending, depends on getting ideal outcomes and meeting very demanding stat cutoffs.
Not to mention it is also one of the Subtle great features of the game and sets it apart from so many other's showing just how much thought and effort really went into its making which makes it all the more rewarding and worth replaying again and again to see every little diversion and path. The elusive "Replayability" that so many VNs end up trying to forceful cram into the game but here it is sewn into the story so naturally.
Saving Laurie = Future Armor fetish content unlocked.
Maybe later on there will be entire scenes of only the ones we manage to save ? Demi and that huge boobs gym milk lady seemed to be getting friendly with each other. future threesome option ?
End game content ? Special version 1.02 bonus content.
Post Ending orgy with the Chicks we saved... jake gets to sit in the corner with a dunce cap.
Am not even entirely joking ... it would add one more playthrough to the list of all the perfectionists.
Aha ... So I wasn't the Only one who thought that when Shadow called the MC "beta" it was possibly gonna lead to MC switching to wolf mode and dominating the crap out of her down the road.
