RPGM Abandoned The Coceter Chronicles [v0.15 Beta1] [Nverjos]

[RustyV]

Its great that the people on Patreon caught them and responded but competition in the market place is usually good for the consumer. Forces companies not to be total jerks.
Look at the cable industry in the US. Many people are over charged, and given sub-par service when compared to other places in the world often because the consumers have only one viable cable/internet outlet.

 

[Djoki996]

Its great that the people on Patreon caught them and responded but competition in the market place is usually good for the consumer. Forces companies not to be total jerks.
Look at the cable industry in the US. Many people are over charged, and given sub-par service when compared to other places in the world often because the consumers have only one viable cable/internet outlet.

I've heard that cable in the US can be up to 200 bucks, which is insane really. Myself, I pay 15 dolars for 500 channels, although I use somethin similar to streaming rather than cable but even if I used cable it wouldn't be over 30 dolars.

 

[Catwashere]

Still waiting on that update, can't wait!

 

[RustyV]

I've heard that cable in the US can be up to 200 bucks, which is insane really. Myself, I pay 15 dolars for 500 channels, although I use somethin similar to streaming rather than cable but even if I used cable it wouldn't be over 30 dolars.

Easily $200, and if you want a lot of extras you pay. But in my county the county commissioners signed a cable company a 30 year monopoly, because the local university benefited from getting a special rate.

 

[gobbet]

I've seen a lot of people complain about patreon forbidding games with certain topics (bestiality, incest etc) but what most people seem to ignore is the fact that Patreon is based in United States, and in United States, any hardcore representation of incest, bestiality and rape, fictional or not, is illegal, so if someone were to report them they could get in some serious trouble. So, them banning such content is primarly for pragmatic reasons.

Are you sure about that? Most criminal law in the US is state level. Do you have an actual Federal statute you can cite, or is this just a "it is known" sort of statement?

I'm honestly curious.

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

Are you sure about that? Most criminal law in the US is state level. Do you have an actual Federal statute you can cite, or is this just a "it is known" sort of statement?

I'm honestly curious.

Or, even better, some examples of actual prosecutions for such anywhere in the U.S. within the last 40 years (which did not include the use of actual underage people, actual for-real bestiality, or actual for-real rape). Because I can show you plenty of adult movies over the last 40 years which certainly did include hardcore representations of incest and rape in which nobody was prosecuted at all (and even bestiality, though that one is weaker since they weren't distributed nationwide by known studios unlike the other two - and for good reason since you can't do a hardcore representation of that one without actually breaking a for-real law, at least in most states, if not all 50).

 

[RustyV]

I wish I could remember (or find) the thread but I'm pretty sure someone posted a comment about a court decision that enabled the Lolita movie to be filmed. Because it was not actual underage sex, simulated activities were not the same as actual events.
There are new laws trying to link sites with illegal activity, mostly sex trafficking and terrorist activity. I doubt the rendering of Tabie taking a Centaur wang to his balls would constitute what the law is trying to stop.
Maybe PETA might object to Tabie fucking a Centaur, or rendering of an animal, but can't see the law giving a rat's ass.

 

[Djoki996]

Are you sure about that? Most criminal law in the US is state level. Do you have an actual Federal statute you can cite, or is this just a "it is known" sort of statement?

I'm honestly curious.

Miller test, made in 1973, checks all pornography made in United States to see whether it has any 'offensive' content, and that law is on federal level.

However pornography is not put through Miller test if it's not made in the United States thus there are quite a few fictional rape and incest videos and even a couple of actual girl on girl incest scenes (made by some twin sisters from Europe, can't remember their names) that came from other countries.

Not sure whether that applies on games though.

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

Miller test, made in 1973, checks all pornography made in United States to see whether it has any 'offensive' content, and that law is on federal level.

However pornography is not put through Miller test if it's not made in the United States thus there are quite a few fictional rape and incest videos and even a couple of actual girl on girl incest scenes (made by some twin sisters from Europe, can't remember their names) that came from other countries.

Not sure whether that applies on games though.

After the Miller decision, there were plenty of American films with hardcore representations of incest and rape (the Taboo series was immensely popular in the '80s). Miller is not a federal law, but a Court decision which applies to state laws as well as federal. It has a three-part test which is the only way any level of government can ban pornography - whether the work appeals to prurient interest, whether it is patently offensive, and whether, taken as a whole, it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. As far as I know, Miller effectively legalized all porn in the U.S. where no laws are broken in its making with the exception of visual depictions of child pornography. Otherwise, I have been utterly unable to find a successful prosecution of porn since Miller. (It was, in fact, immediately after Miller that the "Golden Age of Porn" began in the U.S. This was not a coincidence.) In the 1980s, the Attorney General of the U.S., Edwin Meese, formed an entire anti-obscenity task force, done again by Alberto Gonzales in the 2000s. Both task forces utterly failed to prosecute anybody for anything. The second task force did threaten to prosecute a woman who wrote many depictions of (purely textual) child rape. It was never tested against Miller since she pled to a small fine rather than fight it in court.

 

[Djoki996]

After the Miller decision, there were plenty of American films with hardcore representations of incest and rape (the Taboo series was immensely popular in the '80s). Miller is not a federal law, but a Court decision which applies to state laws as well as federal. It has a three-part test which is the only way any level of government can ban pornography - whether the work appeals to prurient interest, whether it is patently offensive, and whether, taken as a whole, it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. As far as I know, Miller effectively legalized all porn in the U.S. where no laws are broken in its making with the exception of visual depictions of child pornography. Otherwise, I have been utterly unable to find a successful prosecution of porn since Miller. In the 1980s, the Attorney General of the U.S., Edwin Meese, formed an entire anti-obscenity task force, done again by Alberto Gonzales in the 2000s. Both task forces utterly failed to prosecute anybody for anything. The second task force did threaten to prosecute a woman who wrote many depictions of (purely textual) child rape. It was never tested against Miller since she pled to a small fine rather than fight it in court.

Oh, must have read it all wrong than. Sorry.

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

Oh, must have read it all wrong than. Sorry.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would be happy to defend Coceter, bestiality and all, versus the Miller test. I would stipulate that it fails the first test (appeals to prurient interest), fight a little against the second test (patently offensive), arguing that it's obviously a fantasy world and it's just a cartoon and so on, and fight hard on the third test - arguing that it does in fact have serious artistic and literary merit. Admittedly, one of the pictures of Tabi having sex with a centaur, standing on its own without the context of the game, would have a rougher time.

The Miller Test is partly why the '70s and '80s were the "Golden Age of Porn." The porn industry hung their defense on that third test and there really were attempts at serious artistic merit in films like The Opening of Misty Beethoven, The Devil in Miss Jones, or even Deep Throat (comic merit in Deep Throat's case). In the '90s, it became clear that the government wasn't going to prosecute pornography at all and the American porn industry moved to the plotless gonzo porn which dominates today. More's the pity in my view. When I was a kid, I would watch porn movies and fast forward through the sex scenes which were generally pretty boring compared to the rest of the film (bad acting and production values and all) because there were often some interesting ideas in the scripts. Porn nowadays is just wall-to-wall sex and it's all pretty much the same.

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

Come to think of it, centaurs aren't bestiality anyway and shouldn't properly be covered by Patreon's policy. There is no meaningful difference between a human (or a demon) having sex with a centaur than having sex with an elf. Centaurs are sapient creatures and can give consent.

 

[RustyV]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would be happy to defend Coceter, bestiality and all, versus the Miller test. I would stipulate that it fails the first test (appeals to prurient interest), fight a little against the second test (patently offensive), arguing that it's obviously a fantasy world and it's just a cartoon and so on, and fight hard on the third test - arguing that it does in fact have serious artistic and literary merit. Admittedly, one of the pictures of Tabi having sex with a centaur, standing on its own without the context of the game, would have a rougher time.

The Miller Test is partly why the '70s and '80s were the "Golden Age of Porn." The porn industry hung their defense on that third test and there really were attempts at serious artistic merit in films like The Opening of Misty Beethoven, The Devil in Miss Jones, or even Deep Throat (comic merit in Deep Throat's case).

At one point in the game didn't Nverjos reveal Coceter Chronicles was based on a book she was writing? So it has artistic merit.
If Drew Barrymore at 17 could get really close to having sex on screen with Tom Skerritt in the movie Poison Ivy this game has nothing to worry about from the Feds. It's Patreon/paypal. Which sucks because it looked like the dev was working to have Tabie get involved in almost every kind of less extreme sex fetish.

FYI one thing to remember about 80's porn is that unbeknownst to nearly everyone porn actress Traci Lords used a fake ID to get into the porn industry. I think she was only 15.
If you watched all but one of Traci Lords' porn videos or saw Penthouse magazine's 15th-anniversary issue you saw underage porn (I Googled this information if you're wondering how I know it).

 

[Catwashere]

Can't wait for the update!

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

FYI one thing to remember about 80's porn is that unbeknownst to nearly everyone porn actress Traci Lords used a fake ID to get into the porn industry. I think she was only 15.
If you watched all but one of Traci Lords' porn videos or saw Penthouse magazine's 15th-anniversary issue you saw underage porn (I Googled this information if you're wondering how I know it).

I did indeed watch at least one of Traci Lords's videos back then before it was known she was illegal. But honestly it's hard for me to get too morally puritanical about it. When I was 14-17, I actually had sex with a bunch of 15-17 year olds, so I can't honestly claim to be really bent out of shape about having seen "**********." For the record, I have never seen a pre-pubescent have sexual contact with anyone and I hope to die without ever doing so.

 

[RustyV]

I did indeed watch at least one of Traci Lords's videos back then before it was known she was illegal. But honestly it's hard for me to get too morally puritanical about it. When I was 14-17, I actually had sex with a bunch of 15-17 year olds, so I can't honestly claim to be really bent out of shape about having seen "**********." For the record, I have never seen a pre-pubescent have sexual contact with anyone and I hope to die without ever doing so.

Agreed. Few if any of us knew she was underage, which is probably why the Feds didn't freak out on her clueless audience, and yeah the thought of pre-pubescent porn makes me nauseous.

 

[Barabbas Gethsemane]

Agreed. Few if any of us knew she was underage, which is probably why the Feds didn't freak out on her clueless audience, and yeah the thought of pre-pubescent porn makes me nauseous.

Particularly since she really didn't look as young as she was. In the Penthouse pictorial, she claimed to be 22 and a virgin until she was 19 (in fact, she had an abortion when she was 13), and she could plausibly pass for 22 at the time. So even if our rationale against teenage pornography is that we don't want to excite grown men into fixating their sexual desires on teenagers, there wasn't really any danger Traci Lords would do that. She also appeared in Juggs magazine, for heaven's sake. And the real reason for prohibition is the harm that can be done to a teenager in porn, but in Lords's case, what was done was already done.

Making a big production of forcing stores to pull the videos off the shelves was a good idea though. It made the porn industry way more careful about not allowing that to happen again, which probably saved some teenagers from themselves.

 

[bas]

Hey guys - this is totally off-topic. Can you please keep the conversation here to the game in the OP, please? Thanks

 

[RustyV]

Sorry, we kinda drifted way off topic.
But the initial argument that censoring the dev is more Patreon than Federal laws seems valid.

Does anyone know anything about the release of update 0.15 that is not a beta?

 

[Jaspickle]

Sorry, we kinda drifted way off topic.
But the initial argument that censoring the dev is more Patreon than Federal laws seems valid.

Does anyone know anything about the release of update 0.15 that is not a beta?

Dev suffered a major personal tragedy this past month, and is having some challenges rendering a couple of scenes. Work is still in progress, but 0.15 is not ready for release yet