Ren'Py The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[whichone]

He seems incapable of admitting any wrongdoings. It was mostly fine until now, but his cockiness/egoism started bugging me a little. He's forcing these situations thinking he knows what is best. I would have liked him to speak up at the restaurant instead, when the others were making fun of Luna. Did he really think she would freak out? Luna, who stayed calm when Gracie and Jalen were low-key threatening each other after their meeting? Granted, the date was still early in the story and he might have not known her that well.

I think of that event slightly differently.
He knows she can kick his ass. If she chooses not to speak up against the other girls, why should he automatically assume that he needs to do it for her?
I think she didn't say anything simply because she was out of her element/comfort zone, all dressed up fancy.
Perhaps she didn't want to create a scene.
If she didn't want to respond, when she's more capable of dealing with the situation than he is, does he really need to act like a psuedo-hero & come to her rescue?

If you're out on a date with a psychopath & they remain calm in the face of adversity, it might be a good idea for you to do so, also.

Hard to convice? You mean convince them by doing something like totally giving up your life by screaming and running simultaneously at a bunch of Mafia soldiers or mercenaries, so the sisters could escape?

No, that's nowhere near extreme enough, apparently.

Stockholm syndrome can be funny that way. lol.

But however much we may all come to like the Delucas they have forced the MC into some horrible situations. And they won't even tell him why. So yeah...he is completely in the right to spy on them and try to get back at least the illusion of control over his own life.

Good point, well made.
We jumped into the MC being in this world. I think you're quite correct to point out the effect that being forced into that world would possibly elicit.
Trying to find out information on your captors & perhaps why you've been taken captive, would probably be high on most people's list of actions.
Under those circumstances, placing devices (whether audio or cam) doesn't seem so immoral.

 

[HopesGaming]

Nice to see the Mc is getting some discussion for a change.
Personally, I think Mc's biggest 'issue' is his lack of boundaries on issues that are not his to meddle in, stubborn, and egoistical.
I say issues in quotes as for some it may not be seen as an issue but a strength. It depends on the player.
These are more 'hardcoded' personalities traits that just determines who you are as a person.

The 'undesired' traits of his I won't get too much in details as that is part of the story development and improvement of the character. But I have a feeling most of you guys have a good guesses of those already.

As a novice writer, I didn't expect there to be so many sections in the story where I wanted a character to personally act (most of the time the mc!), but was forced to write in another due to the personality and background of the character I already have established.
I always thought that since I was the creator I could mold the story to fit, which is certainly true to a certain degree, but more than not you have to force yourself into writing based on what the character thinks and acts rather than how you yourself would. An interesting part of story writing I didn't expect before I began this.

Anyways, I've butted in your guy's talk too much already! Carry on, heh.

 

[JJJ84]

This is the only part of your post I strongly disagree with.(And whoever else you were agreeing with)

It's easy to forget one critical thing here: The MC is the Deluca's prisoner.

Sure, the cage they keep him in is big and beautifully gilded. His jailors are kooky and funny and sexy. But the fact remains he is caged, and they are his jailors. He has been forced into a position where he needed to murder a man and that experience was deeply traumatic for him. He's staunchly against ever repeating it.

So much so that even during the Ombra raid when he was fighting for his own life and the life of an innocent girl he was still relieved to realize that he did not kill the man who had been trying to kill him. And given what he know about how calculating the MC is, it's safe to assume that his whole improvised plan for that fight was INTENDED to take down his target in a way that was as minimally likely as possible to actually kill him. Imagine how much more easily he might have turned the tables on that scenario if he'd been fully willing to seek a lethal solution. Instead he increased the risk to himself, the girl, and the mission trying to find the least lethal path to victory. Kinda like Batman. lol. Even though it's stupid that Batman won't kill, you can respect how much more effort, struggle, and skill it demands to fight while trying to avoid lethality as much as possible.

In no way, shape, or form is the MC wrong for trying to get knowledge and leverage on the people who have forced him into a dark, dangerous, violent lifestyle that he has repeatedly made clear he wants no part of.

It's easy to forget these facts. I forget too sometimes. I mean at this point I think the MC's continued efforts to free himself are a case of the dog chasing the car. He wouldn't know what to do with it if he actually caught it. When he started he genuinely and fully wanted out but now he's so conflicted that he's doing it because he doesn't know what else to do. Maybe he just wants the choice at this point, even though we all know he's already chosen. He's under the Deluca spell now. Stockholm syndrome can be funny that way. lol.

But however much we may all come to like the Delucas they have forced the MC into some horrible situations. And they won't even tell him why. So yeah...he is completely in the right to spy on them and try to get back at least the illusion of control over his own life.

I disagree.

And to make it clear, I never forgot what position MC was in to begin with.
Several terms can be used to describe MC's situation with the DeLucas; prisoner, hostage, captive etc etc.

And yes, DeLucas are using the Contract situation to force the MC to be there in the beginning (though as time goes by, he's slowly becoming of the mind that he wants to be there for the girls instead of being forced to), but one undeniable fact remains; he spied on the family and intruded on their privacy.
He can try to bullshit his way out of it saying "I did it to gain information" "I did it to find out about my contract" but in no way do I feel that is an actual acceptable thing to do (regardless of how nice DeLucas have been treating him, which they did).

Doing so, all I see would be him shifting his blame on others for his own mistake/wrongs, sort of like how he tried to do in The Blizzard Princess event with Isabel and Gracie (when Isabel and Gracie both gives him flak saying "It's your fault MC" he tries to deny it saying "It's your fault because you two were fighting and I was only trying to help" but straight afterwards he says to himself in monologue 'Yup, it's totally my fault.').

Also, yes DeLucas are wrong to hold MC over something that he himself have never done or was unaware of, but I'm always of the mind that "two wrongs don't make a right."
Regardless of what he says regarding this matter, all it would be from the DeLucas' perspective would be him making excuses, trying to sugarcoat what he did (and as I said before, trying to blame the DeLucas implying "you made me do this" when in fact what he did wasn't right either).

This is much more the case, especially given Cordia already caught MC sneaking around in her office & forgave him saying "I understand." despite telling him she was displeased with him sneaking around.

Once, he got off without any punishment, but if he gets caught again with the cameras/audio recorders this time?
I just don't think he will get off without punishment this time around (and I don't think he shouldn't. If he gets off scot-free again, it will mean there are no weight of consequences to decisions).

Probably Cordia and Wilfred knows what MC is up to already (and Gracie, she has a rough idea of what MC may be up to), and while they may be a bit sympathetic to MC's case, what he did was still a wrong thing to do, and I think some sort of punishment will be given to MC if the camera/audio recorder arc is ever further explored (though whether that arc will continue or not remains to be seen).
Perhaps force MC to go on a mission without any pay like they ordered Luna and Gracie as their punishment after the girls pink paint-bombed their bathroom.

And it might be such a punishment may not actually be much of a punishment at all (in MC's eyes).
But I'd think they at least treat it as punishment in order to show that anyone who does something wrong will get punishment, even ones who are important as MC.

 

[whichone]

I always thought that since I was the creator I could mold the story to fit, which is certainly true to a certain degree, but more than not you have to force yourself into writing based on what the character thinks and acts rather than how you yourself would. An interesting part of story writing I didn't expect before I began this.

This is crucial.
Consistency is key.
If you establish the character in a certain way, then you should only alter how he acts through circumstantial evolution.
As he gains more/different experiences, his ways of acting/reacting will alter, due to what he learned in those experiences.
So to have him created in a certain way, then suddenly to have him behave like you would in certain situations - without such evolutionary events, would break continuity by being out of character, for him.

Also, yes DeLucas are wrong to hold MC over something that he himself have never done or was unaware of, but I'm always of the mind that "two wrongs don't make a right."

Also brings to mind the expression "The lesser of two evils".
"When faced with selecting from two immoral options, the least immoral one should be chosen."
Being held captive, or spying on your captor.
No contest.

The only thing which matters, for establishing morality, is his intent.
The justification/excuse that he is using the cams to find out information goes out the window as soon as he starts making Gracie watch porn, so he can watch her masturbate.
MC has no morally superior stance on that.

 

[Boehser Onkel]

*grabs popcorn*
go on

 

[JJJ84]

Nice to see the Mc is getting some discussion for a change.
Personally, I think Mc's biggest 'issue' is his lack of boundaries on issues that are not his to meddle in, stubborn, and egoistical.
I say issues in quotes as for some it may not be seen as an issue but a strength. It depends on the player.
These are more 'hardcoded' personalities traits that just determines who you are as a person.

The 'undesired' traits of his I won't get too much in details as that is part of the story development and improvement of the character. But I have a feeling most of you guys have a good guesses of those already.

As a novice writer, I didn't expect there to be so many sections in the story where I wanted a character to personally act (most of the time the mc!), but was forced to write in another due to the personality and background of the character I already have established.
I always thought that since I was the creator I could mold the story to fit, which is certainly true to a certain degree, but more than not you have to force yourself into writing based on what the character thinks and acts rather than how you yourself would. An interesting part of story writing I didn't expect before I began this.

Anyways, I've butted in your guy's talk too much already! Carry on, heh.

I think you mentioned this before, and iirc you said that the game "will not split the game actually into seasons physically."
Is that still the case with DeLuca?

Just asking cause I'm seeing more games I'm playing in which the game is getting long where the dev decides to physically split separate seasons/chapters/acts into different game files (with for e.g. saves from season 2 getting ported from end game save from season 1).

Not saying you should follow what they're doing (you should do what you feel is best), but just wondering whether you'll still stick to 1 file approach that you said before, or you've had a change of mind.

 

[whichone]

If he gets off scot-free again, it will mean there are no weight of consequences to decisions.

I agree with the principle, but don't think it applies to that situation.
There was no moral option to choose.
It was either cam, or audio. No option to not place any.
Either choice, you're still spying on them.

Yes, there needs to be consequence for the MC's action, if it's discovered, but the consequence is the same, whichever decision the player takes. Because the transgression is still the same.
Basically, it amounts to Hobson's choice.

 

[Paco Loco]

Nice to see the Mc is getting some discussion for a change.
Personally, I think Mc's biggest 'issue' is his lack of boundaries on issues that are not his to meddle in, stubborn, and egoistical.
I say issues in quotes as for some it may not be seen as an issue but a strength. It depends on the player.
These are more 'hardcoded' personalities traits that just determines who you are as a person.

The 'undesired' traits of his I won't get too much in details as that is part of the story development and improvement of the character. But I have a feeling most of you guys have a good guesses of those already.

As a novice writer, I didn't expect there to be so many sections in the story where I wanted a character to personally act (most of the time the mc!), but was forced to write in another due to the personality and background of the character I already have established.
I always thought that since I was the creator I could mold the story to fit, which is certainly true to a certain degree, but more than not you have to force yourself into writing based on what the character thinks and acts rather than how you yourself would. An interesting part of story writing I didn't expect before I began this.

Anyways, I've butted in your guy's talk too much already! Carry on, heh.

One thing I think it is interesting about the MC is because he is not a 'true-believer' on how the mafia 'lifestyle' works on the surface. On a example, his attitude is the opposite from Trino - who's acts like a stupid fanatic minion (even it was just a ploy to lure the Delucas about his treason) - and several others inside the family. It is not just about him being on a forced contract, but he seems to be seriously annoyed and untrustful about his own situation.
It is just too easy to fall on a cliché in a mafia story when the MC's is or become a badass jerk from the beggining or worst, from anywhere on the story, like he wakes up one morning to be the ultimate alpha male who kicks everybody's asses.
On that matter, I saw some guys complaining about the MC on this thread, claiming him as a 'beta male' because MC seems to be too much 'weak', 'coward' or else. I think not. He is far more like a civilian who's forced to join an army between veteran skilled soldiers and the development of the character mostly fits that criteria, even if some of the players did not like it. Even on a fictional scenario, I think it is not any coherent a MC who was only a civilian, from nothing or nowhere, be stronger or way better than most of the harcore NPCs who's lived from years on that enviroment.
Another thing that makes the dev gain several points is even when the MC acts 'tough', like the Ombra mission, there is a background story that explains 'why' or 'how' his actions resulted on that outcome. It is not just from nowhere. Like a 'outsider', the MC is disdained from the very beggining even from the lowest ranks of the Delucas and he did not care about it, otherwise, he embraces being underestimated. It is not the way of the most of male MCs on several AVNs around and I think is one of the most interesting is his attitude towards the others and the situations around the story. And of course, his grumpyness! Just because I'm grumpy as hell!
Keep it up, Hopes.

 

[JJJ84]

One thing I think it is interesting about the MC is because he is not a 'true-believer' on how the mafia 'lifestyle' works on the surface. On a example, his attitude is the opposite from Trino - who's acts like a stupid fanatic minion (even it was just a ploy to lure the Delucas about his treason) - and several others inside the family. It is not just about him being on a forced contract, but he seems to be seriously annoyed and untrustful about his own situation.
It is just too easy to fall on a cliché in a mafia story when the MC's is or become a badass jerk from the beggining or worst, from anywhere on the story, like he wakes up one morning to be the ultimate alpha male who kicks everybody's asses.
On that matter, I saw some guys complaining about the MC on this thread, claiming him as a 'beta male' because MC seems to be too much 'weak', 'coward' or else. I think not. He is far more like a civilian who's forced to join an army between veteran skilled soldiers and the development of the character mostly fits that criteria, even if some of the players did not like it.
Another thing that makes the dev gain several points is even when the MC acts 'tough', like the Ombra mission, there is a background story that explains 'why' or 'how' his actions resulted on that outcome. It is not just from nowhere. Like a 'outsider', the MC is disdained from the very beggining even from the lowest ranks of the Delucas and he did not care about it, otherwise, he embraces being underestimated. It is not the way of the most of male MCs on several AVNs around and I think is one of the most interesting is his attitude towards the others and the situations around the story. And of course, his grumpyness! Just because I'm grumpy as hell!
Keep it up, Hopes.

In all games, I always felt that it is best when progression of a character feels natural.
And as Hopes said, MC's time of transformation will come, but it needs to come at the right moment.

I don't know. I could be wrong, but perhaps those who complain saying "Why is MC so weak." "Why is MC such a wimp." even though it's clearly told in the story (that his cunning make him strive to be underestimated) are just too used to playing alpha male or Gary Stu characters or something .

Good things come with time.
And I'd rather see MC's journey towards becoming strong rather than just see him as alpha from the start or him rushed into becoming what he's meant to be earlier than the time that is planned for him.

 

[schinoize]

Thanks for the replies and different thoughts.
As mentioned, I generally sympathise with the MC. I like his character and how he approaches this "kidnapping" and being left in the dark about the reasons why. I don't mind the tapes and see it as part of the game. Also, while it's true he's "nothing special", I still had the impression he's very much "in control" most of the time. That's prob just me though and it might be different if he actually felt consequences for sneaking into the office.

For me, he just became a tad too dominant for my own liking in his relationships with the two girls towards the end. It's not so much about the restaurant date, but more about making them feel guilty for no reason. These situations made me stop for a second. While it's true Luna could theoretically outmuscle him and Gracie outsmart him, I don't think that matters all too much. Emotionally, he's dictating the pace, while with Isabel, it's more balanced and back and forth, which is what I liked.

Anyway, again, no biggie and I realise I probably have to play it again haha. Can't wait to see how things develop next.

 

[JJJ84]

Thanks for the replies and different thoughts.
As mentioned, I generally sympathise with the MC. I like his character and how he approaches this "kidnapping" and being left in the dark about the reasons why. I don't mind the tapes and see it as part of the game. Also, while it's true he's "nothing special", I still had the impression he's very much "in control" most of the time. That's prob just me though and it might be different if he actually felt consequences for sneaking into the office.

For me, he just became a tad too dominant for my own liking in his relationships with the two girls towards the end. It's not so much about the restaurant date, but more about making them feel guilty for no reason. These situations made me stop for a second. While it's true Luna could theoretically outmuscle him and Gracie outsmart him, I don't think that matters all too much. Emotionally, he's dictating the pace, while with Isabel, it's more balanced and back and forth, which is what I liked.

Anyway, again, no biggie and I realise I probably have to play it again haha. Can't wait to see how things develop next.

No problem.
I'd much rather see and reply to comments like this than see people moan and complain about the game and the dev, so it's a welcome debate.

And just for the sake of good discussion (nothing more, nothing less), I don't really agree that MC was dominant all that much towards Luna and Gracie compared to Isabel. Neither did I feel MC was really making them feel guilty.

In fact, I actually think MC made Isabel feel more guilty from how he acted towards her than he ever did towards Luna and Gracie.

Here's the scene which shows it :

Spoiler

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MC hits the nail on the head with his comments of course with his remarks (and is justified in feeling this way), and this event "A Soldier's Sacrifice" just shows how guilty Isabel feels not just towards Antonio, but towards MC as well after hearing from him (and in next event "Fly White Bird fly!" Isabel even apologizes to MC regarding this).

I'd say he acted more dominant here than how he treated Luna or Gracie (though tbh, I don't really have problem with it).

 

[Rovenant]

One thing I think it is interesting about the MC is because he is not a 'true-believer' on how the mafia 'lifestyle' works on the surface. On a example, his attitude is the opposite from Trino - who's acts like a stupid fanatic minion (even it was just a ploy to lure the Delucas about his treason) - and several others inside the family. It is not just about him being on a forced contract, but he seems to be seriously annoyed and untrustful about his own situation.
It is just too easy to fall on a cliché in a mafia story when the MC's is or become a badass jerk from the beggining or worst, from anywhere on the story, like he wakes up one morning to be the ultimate alpha male who kicks everybody's asses.
On that matter, I saw some guys complaining about the MC on this thread, claiming him as a 'beta male' because MC seems to be too much 'weak', 'coward' or else. I think not. He is far more like a civilian who's forced to join an army between veteran skilled soldiers and the development of the character mostly fits that criteria, even if some of the players did not like it. Even on a fictional scenario, I think it is not any coherent a MC who was only a civilian, from nothing or nowhere, be stronger or way better than most of the harcore NPCs who's lived from years on that enviroment.
Another thing that makes the dev gain several points is even when the MC acts 'tough', like the Ombra mission, there is a background story that explains 'why' or 'how' his actions resulted on that outcome. It is not just from nowhere. Like a 'outsider', the MC is disdained from the very beggining even from the lowest ranks of the Delucas and he did not care about it, otherwise, he embraces being underestimated. It is not the way of the most of male MCs on several AVNs around and I think is one of the most interesting is his attitude towards the others and the situations around the story. And of course, his grumpyness! Just because I'm grumpy as hell!
Keep it up, Hopes.

Even the "way" that the MC developed his skill (poison resistance +2 xD) its a forced one, so yeah, it really looks like a civilian in a caotic hell.
I really like the way that living in the main house (despise the murder attemps) its a calm and lovely life, even trivial. He was a little times close to the action and because of that he approach to the girls in a friendly way like a normal person would (at least like a possible way). He never saw Luna as a crazy woman (the first time we saw her was strange but she looks "unique" more than "crazy") but it would be different if the first time we saw her was in the moment that she killed (like the scene we saw with the "im not broken"). The same happened with Gracie; MC saw a lovely girl until the day she was more serious and showed a darker side of her. Again with Antonio and not giving the situation with Gracie the importance related to the high danger.

And all of that made the relationship unique, and clearly what Wilfred is trying to help, because you dont see the girls like anyone else (not even Cordia).

 

[JJJ84]

Even the "way" that the MC developed his skill (poison resistance +2 xD) its a forced one, so yeah, it really looks like a civilian in a caotic hell.
I really like the way that living in the main house (despise the murder attemps) its a calm and lovely life, even trivial. He was a little times close to the action and because of that he approach to the girls in a friendly way like a normal person would (at least like a possible way). He never saw Luna as a crazy woman (the first time we saw her was strange but she looks "unique" more than "crazy") but it would be different if the first time we saw her was in the moment that she killed (like the scene we saw with the "im not broken"). The same happened with Gracie; MC saw a lovely girl until the day she was more serious and showed a darker side of her. Again with Antonio and not giving the situation with Gracie the importance related to the high danger.

And all of that made the relationship unique, and clearly what Wilfred is trying to help, because you dont see the girls like anyone else (not even Cordia).

I think what really draws me into the Family in general are that they are not the perfect Family, comprised of perfect characters.

As stated by Wilfred, each member of the Family has crucial flaw/s:

- Luna: obviously suffering from the scars of her trauma by Mysterious 6 from when she was a child
- Gracie: something happened to her in "the woods" when she was young, and she severely lack socialization and human interaction
- Isabel: trouble in paradise between her and Antonio, and she desires for someone who loves her back (and player choice, whether Netori path is pursued or not)
- Cordia: despite her appearance as the perfect Donna, as Wilfred states, she suffers from intense guilt from losing her husband as well as having Luna suffer by Mysterious 6 (hence rift between her and Luna's relationship)

- Antonio: drifted apart from Isabel after she loses the baby, and has a very short temper

And yes, even Wilfred, despite him most likely denying it always has shown little glimpses of having flaws here and there.


I like flawed characters in my stories (and how these characters eventually overcome their flaws), so yeah.
Part of why I love the DeLuca universe so much.

 

[Rovenant]

I think what really draws me into the Family in general are that they are not the perfect Family, comprised of perfect characters.

As stated by Wilfred, each member of the Family has crucial flaw/s:

- Luna: obviously suffering from the scars of her trauma by Mysterious 6 from when she was a child
- Gracie: something happened to her in "the woods" when she was young, and she severely lack socialization and human interaction
- Isabel: trouble in paradise between her and Antonio, and she desires for someone who loves her back (and player choice, whether Netori path is pursued or not)
- Cordia: despite her appearance as the perfect Donna, as Wilfred states, she suffers from intense guilt from losing her husband as well as having Luna suffer by Mysterious 6 (hence rift between her and Luna's relationship)

- Antonio: drifted apart from Isabel after she loses the baby, and has a very short temper

And yes, even Wilfred, despite him most likely denying it always has shown little glimpses of having flaws here and there.


I like flawed characters in my stories (and how these characters eventually overcome their flaws), so yeah.
Part of why I love the DeLuca universe so much.

So far its the story about this family, and the MC interacting with them. And yeah, i totally agree with you, the best thing is the crazy world, the superhuman abilities, but they fail in trivial stuff. And the MC being the opposite (he has flaws but at least know some of the world).
I remember the first time i was here, thinking if this game was worth downloading or not, and in comment i saw the dev saying that he didnt wanted just a game with sex and thats all, he wanted to develop the characters with a rational pace. And after a lot of playing i still remember the time when Luna tells you her story and the amazing impact because the dev took the time to develop characters.
Every flaw its just an amazing adition to this game like you say, because it leaves space to the moment when they overcome some of them.

 

[whichone]

Every flaw its just an amazing adition to this game like you say, because it leaves space to the moment when they overcome some of them.

It's an essential element of the literary monomyth, The Hero's Journey.
All the best heroes are capable of making mistakes, but they learn from them and develop into better versions of themselves.
It makes them relatable.

Without flaws to overcome & the character development/evolution which that brings, the hero is static.
It's why the OG Star Wars was great (the hero had flaws and had to learn his lessons the hard way - arrogance & impatience cost him his hand - to come back stronger & defeat the evil) and Disney Star Wars sucked donkey balls (the heroine had no flaws and nothing ever presented a difficulty, so the character is already ultimate OP and cannot get any better from there, no room to grow).

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

The only thing which matters, for establishing morality, is his intent.
The justification/excuse that he is using the cams to find out information goes out the window as soon as he starts making Gracie watch porn, so he can watch her masturbate.
MC has no morally superior stance on that.

I strongly disagree. In the immortal words of Fred Durst...one of the most moral men of all time, according to some...MC did it for the nookie.

Which really justifies damn near anything. That's a scientific fact and you can take that to the bank.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

As a novice writer, I didn't expect there to be so many sections in the story where I wanted a character to personally act (most of the time the mc!), but was forced to write in another due to the personality and background of the character I already have established.
I always thought that since I was the creator I could mold the story to fit, which is certainly true to a certain degree, but more than not you have to force yourself into writing based on what the character thinks and acts rather than how you yourself would. An interesting part of story writing I didn't expect before I began this.

Anyways, I've butted in your guy's talk too much already! Carry on, heh.

The mere fact that you can conceptualize such a simple yet profound concept instantly makes you...as a "novice"...a better writer than the entire "professional" writing staff working on all of Kurtzman's Star Trek and pretty much the entire CW network.

Your characters must always be true to themselves first and foremost: Not true to what anyone else....even their creator...wants them to be.

There's probably a pretty profound theological point to be made there, too. But i'd rather go watch porn instead.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

This is the only part of your post I strongly disagree with.(And whoever else you were agreeing with)

It's easy to forget one critical thing here: The MC is the Deluca's prisoner.

Sure, the cage they keep him in is big and beautifully gilded. His jailors are kooky and funny and sexy. But the fact remains he is caged, and they are his jailors. He has been forced into a position where he needed to murder a man and that experience was deeply traumatic for him. He's staunchly against ever repeating it.

So much so that even during the Ombra raid when he was fighting for his own life and the life of an innocent girl he was still relieved to realize that he did not kill the man who had been trying to kill him. And given what he know about how calculating the MC is, it's safe to assume that his whole improvised plan for that fight was INTENDED to take down his target in a way that was as minimally likely as possible to actually kill him. Imagine how much more easily he might have turned the tables on that scenario if he'd been fully willing to seek a lethal solution. Instead he increased the risk to himself, the girl, and the mission trying to find the least lethal path to victory. Kinda like Batman. lol. Even though it's stupid that Batman won't kill, you can respect how much more effort, struggle, and skill it demands to fight while trying to avoid lethality as much as possible.

In no way, shape, or form is the MC wrong for trying to get knowledge and leverage on the people who have forced him into a dark, dangerous, violent lifestyle that he has repeatedly made clear he wants no part of.

It's easy to forget these facts. I forget too sometimes. I mean at this point I think the MC's continued efforts to free himself are a case of the dog chasing the car. He wouldn't know what to do with it if he actually caught it. When he started he genuinely and fully wanted out but now he's so conflicted that he's doing it because he doesn't know what else to do. Maybe he just wants the choice at this point, even though we all know he's already chosen. He's under the Deluca spell now. Stockholm syndrome can be funny that way. lol.

But however much we may all come to like the Delucas they have forced the MC into some horrible situations. And they won't even tell him why. So yeah...he is completely in the right to spy on them and try to get back at least the illusion of control over his own life.

A prisoner? In a way yes. He does not have a choice that is true, but think about the following: He is in a mansion with a big room with a bathroom connected to it. he surrounded with beautiful women. If that is a prison then tell me what i gotta do to get into that prison.


I hate to burst your bubble this second time, but he is in the wrong. Did Gracie, Luna or Isabel have a hand in him being there? Are they keeping it secret why he is there? So yeah MC is in the wrong for invading their privacy in THEIR BEDROOMS. WHERE THEY CHANGE THEIR CLOTHES.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

I agree with the principle, but don't think it applies to that situation.
There was no moral option to choose.
It was either cam, or audio. No option to not place any.
Either choice, you're still spying on them.

Yes, there needs to be consequence for the MC's action, if it's discovered, but the consequence is the same, whichever decision the player takes. Because the transgression is still the same.
Basically, it amounts to Hobson's choice.

Not the same. One you can see them naked or in underwear or various ways of undress. While hearing what they say. The other you just hear what they say. One is just a violaton of women's privacy the other is a major violation of privacy and can be categorized as creepy. So technically the consequence should not be the same, but if there is a consequence then it will probably be the same either way.

 

[JJJ84]

A prisoner? In a way yes. He does not have a choice that is true, but think about the following: He is in a mansion with a big room with a bathroom connected to it. he surrounded with beautiful women. If that is a prison then tell me what i gotta do to get into that prison.
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I hate to burst your bubble this second time, but he is in the wrong. Did Gracie, Luna or Isabel have a hand in him being there? Are they keeping it secret why he is there? So yeah MC is in the wrong for invading their privacy in THEIR BEDROOMS. WHERE THEY CHANGE THEIR CLOTHES.

And it's not just regarding the girls' bedrooms either.

The fact that he also planted the camera in the Donna's office is a big No-No.
That office is the place where Cordia, Wilfred, (and sometimes Antonio) discuss matters of the Family behind closed doors.

Even if MC hadn't planted the camera in the girls rooms but just planted it in Donna's (Cordia's) office, he'd still be doing something that the Family wouldn't consider acceptable (why would they be? He's basically listening in on the Family meetings that only specified members are allowed to partake).

As I said in my previous reply, the excuse of "I needed information regarding my contract" has been used once already.
Once he has been forgiven, but getting caught twice?

lol if the person who planted the cameras was someone who was under Contract like MC but didn't have MC's level of importance to the Family, I'd imagine that person would be put to slept and never be woken up (like MC states in Cordia office event).