Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

Is Luna his jailor? Is Gracie his jailor? Is Isabel his jailor? Also do the three have a saying in how Cordia and Wilfred does their mafia buisness? Even Antonio as the capobastone doesn't really have an influence on this. Isabel isn't even in the family buisness.

Would I do the same a try to gather everything I can in his situation? Yes. But I wouldn't say that is my right to do so and it is moral OK to do so. As JJJ84 said two wrongs don't make right.

He had every reason to beleive they were his Jailors/Masters when he planted the cameras. And frankly...they are. Again, they are nice Jailors/Masters. Sweet, and funny and sexy jailors/masters. But yes, they are absolutely, objectively, his de-facto masters/jailers.

A master who treats his slaves well is still a master.

They may have been thrust into that role almost(ALMOST) as unwillingly as the MC was...but they haven't rejected that role.

As JJJ84 said two wrongs don't make right.

This is a simplistic expression that gets thrown around way too much. It's just factually incorrect. Let's use an example from this very game.

Killing people is wrong.

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) = Right(Luna Lives long enough to one day avenge the victims of the Mysterious 6 and give MC lots of psychopathic babies)

Human history is built on a massive pileup of "wrongs" getting slap-patched together into a big messy bunch of "rights".

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is a cute little slogan we feed to children when we're giving them their very first introduction to morality. And it's a good foundation upon which to build a strong moral core as you move into adulthood...but if you get stuck there you'll never evolve. The real world is not that simplistic.

 

[Ahx]

He had every reason to beleive they were his Jailors/Masters when he planted the cameras. And frankly...they are. Again, they are nice Jailors/Masters. Sweet, and funny and sexy jailors/masters. But yes, they are absolutely, objectively, his de-facto masters/jailers.

A master who treats his slaves well is still a master.

They may have been thrust into that role almost(ALMOST) as unwillingly as the MC was...but they haven't rejected that role.

I think, leaving the MC alone will end up him being dead, so the Delucas took hold of him over a "Contract" to protect him from a bunch of assassins that are being sent after him or the danger that has been bestowed upon him for being a son of his father's.

Since we know his father used to be someone important to the Delucas, they might've felt the need or responsibility to protect his son or for any other reasons. MC's new-made enemies might stay away, now that the Delucas are holding him as one of their own. No one wants to mess with the Delucas. Of course that won't sop everyone out there.

I've never seen them as his captors or masters, but babysitters.

Actually, calling them masters is not bad at all, since they are treating him as their student or their soldier and teaching him everything they can till this "Contract situation" is resolved, so he can survive on his own. Something like to that effect.

Slaves are the ones that are completely stripped out of their freedom. They have no say in anything but to obey their masters. It's not the same here. I'm not gonna make a bold statement here since there is still a lot to uncover. Till then we can't be sure if he's being kept for his sake or their's. Maybe both.

 

[JJJ84]

This is a simplistic expression that gets thrown around way too much. It's just factually incorrect. Let's use an example from this very game.

Killing people is wrong.

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) = Right(Luna Lives long enough to one day avenge the victims of the Mysterious 6 and give MC lots of psychopathic babies)

Human history is built on a massive pileup of "wrongs" getting slap-patched together into a big messy bunch of "rights".

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is a cute little slogan we feed to children when we're giving them their very first introduction to morality. And it's a good foundation upon which to build a strong moral core as you move into adulthood...but if you get stuck there you'll never evolve. The real world is not that simplistic.

I disagree.

In your example itself, it can be just as much interpreted as the following:

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) results in Wrong Number Three(MC now must live with the choice that he killed someone, even if it was to save Luna. And while you may say "It's because of the Contract", there are much more factors which came into play that resulted in MC actually being in that situation; his improved relationship with Luna, as well as him listening to her when she says "Let's go find the boss on our own." Many of these are choices that he himself made, and noone forced upon him)

And when I said that phrase, I meant it using the following example:

Wrong Number One(DeLucas force MC to enter into the contract) + Wrong Number Two(MC plants cameras/audio recorders without anyone knowing) results in Wrong Number Three(The Family gets their privacy invaded, Family secrets that MC shouldn't be knowing gets known gets leaked to MC, MC breaches the Family's trust)


Let's use another example:

Wrong Number One(Person Y murders Person X's Family) + Wrong Number Two(X kills Y) results in Wrong Number Three(while some would argue X is justified in killing Y to avenge his family, as you said killing is killing, and the previous wrong no.2 act doesn't make what resulted right).

Just because X did it to avenge his Family, doesn't mean he was in all the right to murder Y and he shouldn't be punished.
Real world doesn't work that way, and X would still be charged with murder, regardless of his righteous intentions/motive.

Same as MC's situation with DeLucas. Just because DeLucas forced him into the contracts situation, doesn't mean MC is in the right (even if he was trying to dig up info as an excuse) to just invade other Family members' privacy.
That's just an "eye for an eye" (I suffered, so you deserve a bit of it too lol) retaliation attitude, which would be very reckless in not just MC's but for anyone in a similar situation who has been wronged (like MC, or X).

 

[Cartageno]

This is a simplistic expression that gets thrown around way too much. It's just factually incorrect. Let's use an example from this very game.

Killing people is wrong.

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) = Right(Luna Lives long enough to one day avenge the victims of the Mysterious 6 and give MC lots of psychopathic babies)

Human history is built on a massive pileup of "wrongs" getting slap-patched together into a big messy bunch of "rights".

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is a cute little slogan we feed to children when we're giving them their very first introduction to morality. And it's a good foundation upon which to build a strong moral core as you move into adulthood...but if you get stuck there you'll never evolve. The real world is not that simplistic.

This has very little to do with what the saying means, how it is applied, and so on.

For starters, any moral exclamation is a rough outline and not 100% - there will always be counterexamples. This applies to both the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right" as well as to your otherwise correct axiom "Killing people is wrong". E. g. your second example isn't a "wrong" - preventing somebody from a crime can easily be justified and is here.

Then you do not apply it as such as an equation. These are actions, not static objects. And just as you can do two mathematically incorrect steps and come to the right conclusion, by pure chance you can do so by making two morally incorrect steps - however that doesn't make the steps correct.

Then the event you describe as "right" doesn't have a moral value (although one can say that Luna avenges, i. e. kills again, would also make it wrong).

"Two wrongs don't make a right" means: just because somebody wronged you, you are not correcting that by wronging them in return. As I said, there are exceptions, but this isn't one of them.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

This has very little to do with what the saying means, how it is applied, and so on.

For starters, any moral exclamation is a rough outline and not 100% - there will always be counterexamples. This applies to both the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right" as well as to your otherwise correct axiom "Killing people is wrong". E. g. your second example isn't a "wrong" - preventing somebody from a crime can easily be justified and is here.

Then you do not apply it as such as an equation. These are actions, not static objects. And just as you can do two mathematically incorrect steps and come to the right conclusion, by pure chance you can do so by making two morally incorrect steps - however that doesn't make the steps correct.

Then the event you describe as "right" doesn't have a moral value (although one can say that Luna avenges, i. e. kills again, would also make it wrong).

"Two wrongs don't make a right" means: just because somebody wronged you, you are not correcting that by wronging them in return. As I said, there are exceptions, but this isn't one of them.

That's actually pretty much the point i've been trying to get across. People are arguing that the MC is somehow doing something wrong or immoral for spying on his masters/captors. Spying on people is generally an immoral act. But context matters. Mitigating circumstances matter. An act that's completely immoral in one context is perfectly moral in another. Human history is a messy pile of wrongs and rights feeding into and onto each other perpetually. Ultimately we just try to do the most right and least wrong possible in the context of the situation.

That's what the MC is doing. The most right and least wrong he can reasonably do in the situation that has been forced upon him.

Also, the nookie.

 

[c3p0]

He had every reason to beleive they were his Jailors/Masters when he planted the cameras. And frankly...they are. Again, they are nice Jailors/Masters. Sweet, and funny and sexy jailors/masters. But yes, they are absolutely, objectively, his de-facto masters/jailers.

And why are Luna, Gracie and Isabel his jailors? Can you write you reasons?

This is a simplistic expression that gets thrown around way too much. It's just factually incorrect. Let's use an example from this very game.

Killing people is wrong.

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) = Right(Luna Lives long enough to one day avenge the victims of the Mysterious 6 and give MC lots of psychopathic babies)

Human history is built on a massive pileup of "wrongs" getting slap-patched together into a big messy bunch of "rights".

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is a cute little slogan we feed to children when we're giving them their very first introduction to morality. And it's a good foundation upon which to build a strong moral core as you move into adulthood...but if you get stuck there you'll never evolve. The real world is not that simplistic.

Yes, it is a simple statement but in my eyes true to the core.

For your example:

• Killing people is wrong. (Assumption A)

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) [1]
If I'm a pedant: Where is the assumption A in this? As you have written "Guys tries to kill Luna" what is an action in the future and not an action done. Sure, most likely in this situation this will end with a death, so with some liberty this falls in to assumption A, but technical no.

Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) [2]
This ends with assumption A, but also prevent [1] to be fulfilled.

So they aren't any two wrongs here based only on assumption A. Even if we add assumption B (Trying to kill people is wrong), will you say that the action at all were right?

A police office in service who kill someone to prevent others to be killed (even himself) or one who does it in self defence, makes the action of killing not right, it only makes that action so, that the person who have done it wouldn't recieve a penalty for it.

 

[JJJ84]

But context matters. Mitigating circumstances matter. An act that's completely immoral in one context is perfectly moral in another. Human history is a messy pile of wrongs and rights feeding into and onto each other perpetually. Ultimately we just try to do the most right and least wrong possible in the context of the situation.

Circumstances may have some degree of influence, but there would also be limit as to what the Family would be willing to accept regarding what MC does, before he gets into the "red-alert" territory of actions which the Family would find unacceptable.

Spying on the Family (Donna's office, all the girls rooms etc), is a serious invasion of privacy which would be in that "unacceptable" territory from the Family's POV.

Now if we flip it all over onto MC's POV, you've been stating from beginning till now, MC is totally in the right and is morally correct to spy on the Family (just for the sake of gathering intel regarding his contract).
I find that to be incorrect.

While one can give a bit of sympathy to his situation, by no means does that really justify what he's doing. As I said before (and saying it again lol), the Family has entrusted MC with a lot of things that they would never trust anyone else in the Family to (such as trying to heal the mental scars/issues of Luna, Gracie, Isabel and Cordia), so by continuous use of it from the beginning till now.
He may try to rationalize/sugarcoat it but that doesn't mean he's in the right.

And MC, when he's in the wrong clearly realizes that he is (even if he may not openly admit it out loud). Examples of such situations are with Luna in "My name is Luna" event, and with Isabel & Gracie in "The Blizzard Princess" event.

Also, since he installed the cameras/audio recorders, the game has shown glimpses of him every now and then of being wary of people (such as Gracie) figuring out that the cameras/audio are installed.
If he is so righteous and 100% morally correct in his POV why would he be wary of such a situation?

That's because he knows if he gets caught (red-handed) with the cameras/audio recorders, he will not be able to talk his way out of it claiming that he was "right", since what he did was a totally wrong thing to do, not just towards the Family, but his own actions as general even if "intel gathering" excuse is used.

There are also some scenes which further expand this:

1) Cordia's "Don't Peek" note
After the girls pink paint bomb incident to their bath room and they're forced to share bathroom with the MC, he is given a note by Wilfred which is from Cordia saying "Don't peek."
While this scene is played for laughs and I don't think it's gonna have any major influence on the storyline in general, it gives hints as to Cordia's personality (and Wilfred also, since he literally says to MC "Consequences of peeking.......will be severe.").

2) Cordia catching MC in her office
MC got caught red-handed in her office snooping around in secret.
This is what Cordia says to MC then:

"I am not happy with you sneaking around." (yup, and the word "not" is in bold in game too)
Can't get any more obvious than that, regarding what Cordia would think of MC doing behind the Family's back.

She forgave him once, because snooping around wasn't a too serious offense and she was understanding of how he feels being sympathetic of his situation. But if she and Wilfred catches him with the cameras/audio recorders would she react the same way once more?
I'd say no. I wouldn't expect her (and Wilfred) to be so forgiving this time around.


Well, I'd say the only way that the MC would be able to make everything right is to own up to what he did, and take responsibility for his own wrong doings.
While he can state the reason why he installed the cameras was to find more info, he shouldn't deny what he did wrong (because what he did/doing, was/is indeed wrong), and accept any punishment that Cordia and Wilfred hands to him.
That would show his growth as a character.

Trying to shift the blame (to the Family) or talk his way out of it like he sometimes did till now would basically be that he's unwilling to bear responsibilities (even for things that he did which wronged others), and would diminish his value as a character.

 

[Deleted member 3788572]

MC's relationship with the DeLuca family outside of the 3 LIs is an interesting one. I would differentiate between the 3 LIs and everyone else (mostly Lady Cordia/Wilfred).

Sure they've been treating him alright so far. However, the fact that he's had no say about the situation he's in and he's still left in the dark about the reasons why overshadows pretty much everything else for me. Doesn't make me dislike them, but can't expect MC to simply go along with all the plans his parents/Wilfred/whoever possibly made since he was a young kid.
Imo he doesn't owe them, for anything.
That's probably also why I had only little issues going for the NTR route. I don't dislike Antonio, but I also don't really care either. Indifferent, that's how I feel towards them after everything that has happenend so far.

About the tapes, it obviously only gets more complicated the deeper the relationship to the 3 LIs get. There's probably no way back now though. Might have been wrong from the start, but in the grand scheme of things it didn't really matter, at least for me. About the one in the office, I'm, again, pretty indifferent. Lady Cordia probably already knows. About cameras, big no from me in general haha.

 

[JJJ84]

About the tapes, it obviously only gets more complicated the deeper the relationship to the 3 LIs get.

Make that 4.

Cordia LI route (she's the last main LI, after Luna, Gracie, Isabel) will be unlocked when the following 2 pre-requisites get fulfilled:

1) Gracie gets to start to actually work officially for the Family (which will be addressed in the upcoming update v0.08)
2) The rift between Luna and Cordia gets resolved, and the two of them reconcile.

Both events, MC will obviously be involved, so we're nearly halfway in regarding unlocking Cordia's route (which is definitely coming in season 2).

 

[Rovenant]

2) Cordia catching MC in her office
MC got caught red-handed in her office snooping around in secret.
This is what Cordia says to MC then:

"I am not happy with you sneaking around." (yup, and the word "not" is in bold in game too)
Can't get any more obvious than that, regarding what Cordia would think of MC doing behind the Family's back.

She forgave him once, because snooping around wasn't a too serious offense and she was understanding of how he feels being sympathetic of his situation. But if she and Wilfred catches him with the cameras/audio recorders would she react the same way once more?
I'd say no. I wouldn't expect her (and Wilfred) to be so forgiving this time around.

Do you think they still dont know? if all the murder attempts were something "normal" then it wouldnt surprise that much that they didnt catch that, but if everything is a red flag op they probably know and its part of a major plan to develop your skills or something like that.
I really believe that MC will see something important, and the only evidence will be that, but telling will mean that you did it in first place.

 

[JJJ84]

Do you think they still dont know? if all the murder attempts were something "normal" then it wouldnt surprise that much that they didnt catch that, but if everything is a red flag op they probably know and its part of a major plan to develop your skills or something like that.
I really believe that MC will see something important, and the only evidence will be that, but telling will mean that you did it in first place.

The game heavily implies that Cordia knows about the devices already (considering that she saw MC sneaking into her office on the first night when he went in to install the cameras), and given Wilfred is Wilfred, I'd also assume there really isn't anything that happens in the house that he doesn't know.

But having said that, I think both Cordia and Wilfred knowing about it and turning a blind eye (despite them disapproving of it), is separate from MC's devices being found out, by say.......Gracie or Luna, and the secret of it getting out in the open for all of the Family.

There is a certain way of living that they raised the girls & Antonio, and they (now including Isabel and MC of course) all live under Cordia and Wilfred's rules, where there is certain expectation of behavior.
When any of their children, Isabel, MC do something which goes against that, they get punished.

Such is the pink paint bomb incident. Luna and Gracie were warned twice already before to NOT paint bombing the bathroom, but they did it again anyway so they got punished.
Though MC opening his mouth saying "Lady Cordia must be really lenient" didn't help it for the girls, Wilfred says the following at that event:

"You were told last time, if you blow up the bathroom again, there would be consequences."

Comes to show that under Cordia's roof, anyone who misbehaves or does something wrong/bad (and it is out in the open) gets punished without exception if it becomes too much. That rule, I'd say pretty much extends to Isabel and MC as well.


So if the camera/audio recorder devices remain hidden they may just turn a blind eye (despite disapproval), and they may not even mention it (though if MC once again gets caught red handed trying to sneakily doing something behind the Family's back again, who knows. The topic may come up).
But if the existence of the devices is out in the open, I'd assume they'll give the standard punishment to the MC, even as a formality (that no one is above the rules).


I've seen few people say "Perhaps it's a test for MC by Wilfred and Cordia."
But I seriously doubt that.

The Family has already plenty of formal contracts (through Wilfred's contracts) which already tests MC's stealth, intel gathering and other aspects.
MC would get plenty of experience through them. Besides, even with MC having survived assassination twice (once by poisoning, and once by Eiza), I just don't think that is anywhere near enough reasoning for them (Cordia and Wilfred) to actually approve of the girls and Donna's office being bugged. I just don't see it.

 

[MasterDk78]

wtf is this dev doing? i nearly forgot about this game if it was not coz i was looking whats trendy atm.
oh yea, i was some pages down, but i think it could have been better if he actully did something :/

 

[Master of Puppets]

Killing people is wrong.

Nope. Murder is wrong. Killing someone in self-defence or the defence of others is not.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

Of course he has no choice but to accept their punishment. Prisoners and slaves never have much choice of anything except whether to accept their oppression, or rebel against it.

The MC has chosen to rebel. Rebellions tend to have consequences. Whether those consequences prove to be good or bad, only time will tell.

Sounds like a kid rebelling against his parents.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

He didn't know that at the time though did he? It's perfectly reasonable to believe the Mafia Don's own immediate family would be privy to the truth of why he was there. Or soon be made privy.

And in the beginning EVERYBODY is a suspect to the biggest question of all: Who's trying to murder him.

Yes, NOW the MC trusts that they're not trying to kill him. At least, not directly. And NOW he knows that only Wilfred and Cordia are privy to the terms of the contact he never even consented to. But the cameras are still valid. It's likely that sooner or later one of the Deluca kids...Anthony most likely...will be told the truth. Or discover it some other way. And as I already said it's possible ALL of them have pieces of the puzzle they're either unaware of, or hiding for some other purpose.

The Nookie is just a pleasant bonus.

At no point does the MC have ANY moral obligation to his captors beyond the ones he chooses to assume...and he can choose to abandon those assumptions as it suits him. Nobody on earth has a moral obligation to their jailor. It doesn't matter how nice your jailor is to you. You owe them nothing. He violated their privacy? Well they've violated his humanity. And continue to do so every single day he is bound to their service against his will. Kinda like a slave, now that I think about it. In fact it's probably a much more apt comparison than Prisoner/Jailor is.

Some slaves throughout history were definitely treated better than others. Some even got to live in the main house with the master. Some were even considered "almost family". But just because a master treats a slave kindly, doesn't change the implications of that relationship. And it sure as heck doesn't place the slave under any form of moral obligation to the master.

A slave's only moral obligation is to their own emancipation.

Like I said " The thing is ignorance to knowledge is no excuse." Just cause he does not know something does not make it any less wrong. If a man is told his girlfriend cheated on him and then goes and yells at her or cheats on her only to find out she did not cheat was he in wrong? Yes. Just cause he lied and did not know the truth he still wronged her. Ignorance is no excuse for wrong doing. That is why just cause you break the law in ignorance you still are fined or imprisoned for your crime. When it come to whether or not he has any moral obligation to them, that is a fallacy argument. Morality is not subjective. Right is right and wrong is wrong. No matter if its a lack knowledge or your feelings towards the truth it matters not. Truth is truth no matter who speaks it and a lie is a lie no matter how many believe it. In his mind was he doing right? yes. Does not mean he was doing right. Truth trumps ignorance and feelings. Cordia seems to do what she is doing as killing two birds with one stone. Help the son of an old friend and heal her family. Its a win win situation with force and probably trickery in play.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

He had every reason to beleive they were his Jailors/Masters when he planted the cameras. And frankly...they are. Again, they are nice Jailors/Masters. Sweet, and funny and sexy jailors/masters. But yes, they are absolutely, objectively, his de-facto masters/jailers.

A master who treats his slaves well is still a master.

They may have been thrust into that role almost(ALMOST) as unwillingly as the MC was...but they haven't rejected that role.



This is a simplistic expression that gets thrown around way too much. It's just factually incorrect. Let's use an example from this very game.

Killing people is wrong.

Wrong Number One(Guys tries to kill Luna) + Wrong Number Two(MC Kills Guy First) = Right(Luna Lives long enough to one day avenge the victims of the Mysterious 6 and give MC lots of psychopathic babies)

Human history is built on a massive pileup of "wrongs" getting slap-patched together into a big messy bunch of "rights".

"Two wrongs don't make a right" is a cute little slogan we feed to children when we're giving them their very first introduction to morality. And it's a good foundation upon which to build a strong moral core as you move into adulthood...but if you get stuck there you'll never evolve. The real world is not that simplistic.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. So you think it wrong to kill someone who is trying to kill someone you care about for no good reason at all. So saving someone's life is wrong. Let me make this even more clear. If the guy was not killed then Luna would have died. It is wrong to do nothing when you could save someone even at the cost of your own life. To kill someone (who is trying to kill someone for no good reason) to save a life is in no way wrong. The one mean it is wrong to save a life at the cost of killing someone who kills for no reason. Killing someone like that does not just save the person you just save, but saves others who would be victims when they are innocents. Your rationalizations have just hit loco levels.

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

wtf is this dev doing? i nearly forgot about this game if it was not coz i was looking whats trendy atm.
oh yea, i was some pages down, but i think it could have been better if he actully did something :/

He got covid and was trying to make this coming update the season finale. This is also his hobby. So long waits happen.

 

[Rovenant]

The game heavily implies that Cordia knows about the devices already (considering that she saw MC sneaking into her office on the first night when he went in to install the cameras), and given Wilfred is Wilfred, I'd also assume there really isn't anything that happens in the house that he doesn't know.

But having said that, I think both Cordia and Wilfred knowing about it and turning a blind eye (despite them disapproving of it), is separate from MC's devices being found out, by say.......Gracie or Luna, and the secret of it getting out in the open for all of the Family.

There is a certain way of living that they raised the girls & Antonio, and they (now including Isabel and MC of course) all live under Cordia and Wilfred's rules, where there is certain expectation of behavior.
When any of their children, Isabel, MC do something which goes against that, they get punished.

Such is the pink paint bomb incident. Luna and Gracie were warned twice already before to NOT paint bombing the bathroom, but they did it again anyway so they got punished.
Though MC opening his mouth saying "Lady Cordia must be really lenient" didn't help it for the girls, Wilfred says the following at that event:

"You were told last time, if you blow up the bathroom again, there would be consequences."

Comes to show that under Cordia's roof, anyone who misbehaves or does something wrong/bad (and it is out in the open) gets punished without exception if it becomes too much. That rule, I'd say pretty much extends to Isabel and MC as well.


So if the camera/audio recorder devices remain hidden they may just turn a blind eye (despite disapproval), and they may not even mention it (though if MC once again gets caught red handed trying to sneakily doing something behind the Family's back again, who knows. The topic may come up).
But if the existence of the devices is out in the open, I'd assume they'll give the standard punishment to the MC, even as a formality (that no one is above the rules).


I've seen few people say "Perhaps it's a test for MC by Wilfred and Cordia."
But I seriously doubt that.

The Family has already plenty of formal contracts (through Wilfred's contracts) which already tests MC's stealth, intel gathering and other aspects.
MC would get plenty of experience through them. Besides, even with MC having survived assassination twice (once by poisoning, and once by Eiza), I just don't think that is anywhere near enough reasoning for them (Cordia and Wilfred) to actually approve of the girls and Donna's office being bugged. I just don't see it.

Its an interesting point of view. But if i accept your premise there is something i dont understand:

If they know you did something (micro or camera) in the first place why they didnt turn it off. If they dont care its the same as giving you access to sensible information.
I understand your point about the "formality punishment" if the found and giving example with consequences.

Following your theory (tell me if im missunderstanding something) the rule is: "If we found you doing something wrong, there will be consequences, if you cant found you then nothing happened" (unless you do something problematic like selling intel to the enemy).

If all of the murder attempts were something they were controlling, and they are allowing your actions because it was a test, a way to develop your skills, part of a plan, or they take a benefit, it makes a lot of sense. But if the murder attempts were real (outside force) and they allow this i really cant see them not caring enough or any benefit at all, but they will know you can have access to intel that it isnt allowed in your rank.

 

[JJJ84]

Its an interesting point of view. But if i accept your premise there is something i dont understand:

If they know you did something (micro or camera) in the first place why they didnt turn it off. If they dont care its the same as giving you access to sensible information.

Well, I have couple of guesses:

Cordia:
With Cordia, MC's monologue "Did she see me at the first night?" is most likely confirming she saw MC sneaking into her office somehow. With her girls rooms, it's not said, so it's left ambiguous (but let's just say she knows, and disapproves in her mind).

And if she knows and turns it off, MC would know something has gone amiss. Given that she picks up on MC being already uncomfortable in their first meeting (when MC first meets Cordia when brought to the Family), it could possibly be that she didn't interfere and just left the MC to his devices to ease him into living with the Family and all.
Now yes, there is chance that sensitive information getting leaked to MC, but with Cordia and Wilfred knowing, I'd assume they'd be able to control what gets discussed or not in the office.

Wilfred:
With Wilfred, while it's not said, I think most of us can probably make an educated guess that he knows about the devices.
So why does he let MC keep the devices on?

Hmmm...... from what I can tell, I think it may have to do with the aspect of Wilfred that is the watcher.
He seems to like to pull on strings behind the scenes, then steps behind to see how things play out (like how he deals with Luna and MC's situation in My name is Luna).
In my eyes it's a bit of flaw of his in which he can't help himself but to act that way (even when he's not actually working officially as a Consigliere).

So when he found out MC has planted the device in Cordia's office, my thought is Wilfred might react like "Oh? Let's see how this turns out." not necessarily for the sake of any test, but for his own sense of amusement.

Following your theory (tell me if im missunderstanding something) the rule is: "If we found you doing something wrong, there will be consequences, if you cant found you then nothing happened" (unless you do something problematic like selling intel to the enemy).

If all of the murder attempts were something they were controlling, and they are allowing your actions because it was a test, a way to develop your skills, part of a plan, or they take a benefit, it makes a lot of sense. But if the murder attempts were real (outside force) and they allow this i really cant see them not caring enough or any benefit at all, but they will know you can have access to intel that it isnt allowed in your rank.

Being found out isn't restricted to just selling intel out to the Family's enemies.
It can also very much apply to Cameras/Audio recorders being found out by any of the girls and just the main Family members (Luna, Gracie, Isabel, Cordia, Antonio, Wilfred) finding out what MC did (without the event and any info leaking to outside the main Family).

That would still have the grave consequences towards the MC from the Family cause there would be that breach of trust, with some (especially with Luna, Isabel, Antonio, who likely won't know the devices exist), and disappointment from others (like Gracie who might have suspicions).

Cordia and Wilfred, even if they were turning a blind eye till then, if MC actually gets caught, will need to act on it.

I think in regards to the assassination attempts (there's only two which would count, first being the car brakes, and the second being the poison, Eiza's I exclude that one since a lot of factors outside of DeLuca's control come into play for that one), I'm more inclined to believe the actual Family didn't know of the assassination attempts.

Cordia always values honor and respect, so no way her moral compass would allow such actions to be taken, even for the sake of testing the MC.
Wilfred, I think he'd be willing to get into much greyer territory than Cordia regarding his actions, but I'm not sure. Even if he's doing it as a test, I'd say he's doing it all without Cordia's permission (basically Wilfred gone rogue).

I'm actually leaning more towards that there could be another traitor/mole.
DeLucas think they quashed the traitor /mole with Trino, but there could have been more than 1 in the Family who might be willing to turn their back on them (Antonio or Wilfred seem to be the most popular choices of fans with the traitor candidates, but I'm not too sure. Seems a bit too obvious to me. Oh well..... guess we'll find out sooner or later how it turns out).

While MC getting sensitive information might be helpful to him (that is if they do decide to intentionally leak it to him) I feel it's a double edged sword.
On one hand, it might help him to better prepare himself, while on the other hand, the info may also put him in much more dangerous position (than when he wasn't aware of the info).

But that's part of the beauty of this game.
It gives both sides for the player to ponder about.

 

[7empest5teele]

I cant believe this has been ongoing for almost 4 YEARS....I need to see MUCH more of Eiza, please!
AND an ending with my sexy ninja assassin or a harem one would be IDEAL!