Paco Loco

Active Member
Dec 27, 2018
524
1,398
When the thing with the car heppened at the beggining of the game it was Wilfred who was driving. I know that you are an important person and the wanted you to be in a unique position living inside the house, but just follow me a bit.

When the food situation happened (i need to replay this part too) it was inside the house but only your food was poisoned, and the amount of people living in the house isnt that big, so Wilfred is in the house too.

When the situation with the assault happened, it was Wilfred who, saying that it is a punishment for the girls, told you to go with them to this strange place (in a supposedly peacefull place) for a few days, with almost no protection. We can say there was a mole, but it was a really strange punishment that included you.

Then again with the situation with Eiza. This one can be a different matter, but then again, someone can came into the house and threaten the life of anyone just that easy? or Wilfred allowed this? and Wilfred came to make jokes when there was an assassin inside the house when he is responsible for security?

Im not saying there isnt a threat in your life. But Wilfred is connected to A LOT of things that happened, in really strange situations. Then again im with you in that he is moving the strings in some things with the girls.

I have 2 theories:
-Its that easy to come and kill Cordia or the girls and the security around the big families isnt that big. So even if Wilfred pulled the strings in some matters, all that happened wasnt that strange or unusual.

or

-Wilfred (at least, alone) was trying to """test""" you. Why "test" is the word im using? because if he wanted to kill you it will be realy easy for him.

But if with everything that happened its hard to believe that a smart woman like Cordia believes in coincidences and didnt see Wilfred is involved. Thats why i thing that, in some matters, and with the reason to protect you, she allowed him to do some actions to develop your skills and character. I believe that there and and will be threats to your life, but i think that you will be part of this world no matter what you want, so they are trying to force you into understand the dangers and be prepared for them (related to your mother, or no matter the motivation).
I just have to do some thoughts around your first theory:

-Its that easy to come and kill Cordia or the girls and the security around the big families isnt that big. So even if Wilfred pulled the strings in some matters, all that happened wasnt that strange or unusual.
- I think it is not 'easy' to kill anyone else, even Gracie, inside the mansion. Cordia seems to be in a very good shape :love: and I have my doubts if someone below the 'serpent' level could outmatch her these days (since she was one of the original serpents), even on a surprise stealth attack or a full-scale invasion. But, I'd like to see any of them trying! :devilish: (Here I come, my Queen!) :ROFLMAO:

- All the assassination attemps was against the MC only, so, the other members inside de mansion are not the primary target. Cordia's remarks on that scene seems to be right, when she tells Wilfred that she thinks someone is trying to embarrass the Delucas and put them on discredit - 'They can not even protect their own people'.

- The MC himself is not treated as a 'rare chinese vase' from the family and associates. His is a outsider and has to prove his valor for the family, even on a contract that puts him under 'their protection' - see the interaction between Antonio and Straffan Fazio when Antonio warned MC "If he claims your head under the Pacificatori, there's nothing to do to save you" - It's not the exact phrase, but can give a ideia how you (the MC) can go to be disposable. On another scene, Gildart, if I remember, talk to Caterina, Amata and Onorina after MC wins the combat against the quasi-capo on the Ombras mission (again, I don't remember the exact words) - "If he died in this combat, he was no worthy to live". Gildart decided to not interfere directly on that struggle just not because MC needed to be toughten himself, but also to prove his valor in combat for his own mission (rescue Fina), to keep safe the 'Delucas pride' (they could not accept losing for anyone) and to the family - or team maximum effort :ROFLMAO: (not being a dead weight on the other's missions).

- So, Wilfred remains! On that matter, I don't even know more than nothing on him! :ROFLMAO: Some of his actions are blurred, another are full of second intentions, so, you could be right on him 'testing' MC on some level, but, for what purpose? Again, just Hopes knows.

Oh man, I can't wait for next update! :ROFLMAO:

mind-blown-explosion.gif
 
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Thierry29

Member
Jun 3, 2017
128
59
Is the game abando..lollllllllll

Question for Hope :)

About MC mother, Did she 'll be a major NPC in the futur of the story ? perhaps a reunification between MC and his mother and the biginning of a true love mom/ son ( NO INCEST).

I think she does what she do to protect him, she know since his birth he'll be in danger. The "contract" can be a deal with Cordia to safe him from a sure death.
ok, i know 3 atempt to his live under the Deluca, but how chance to survive outside ?
 

JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
3,046
6,328
When the thing with the car heppened at the beggining of the game it was Wilfred who was driving. I know that you are an important person and the wanted you to be in a unique position living inside the house, but just follow me a bit.

When the food situation happened (i need to replay this part too) it was inside the house but only your food was poisoned, and the amount of people living in the house isnt that big, so Wilfred is in the house too.

When the situation with the assault happened, it was Wilfred who, saying that it is a punishment for the girls, told you to go with them to this strange place (in a supposedly peacefull place) for a few days, with almost no protection. We can say there was a mole, but it was a really strange punishment that included you.

Then again with the situation with Eiza. This one can be a different matter, but then again, someone can came into the house and threaten the life of anyone just that easy? or Wilfred allowed this? and Wilfred came to make jokes when there was an assassin inside the house when he is responsible for security?

Im not saying there isnt a threat in your life. But Wilfred is connected to A LOT of things that happened, in really strange situations. Then again im with you in that he is moving the strings in some things with the girls.

I have 2 theories:
-Its that easy to come and kill Cordia or the girls and the security around the big families isnt that big. So even if Wilfred pulled the strings in some matters, all that happened wasnt that strange or unusual.

or

-Wilfred (at least, alone) was trying to """test""" you. Why "test" is the word im using? because if he wanted to kill you it will be realy easy for him.

But if with everything that happened its hard to believe that a smart woman like Cordia believes in coincidences and didnt see Wilfred is involved. Thats why i thing that, in some matters, and with the reason to protect you, she allowed him to do some actions to develop your skills and character. I believe that there and and will be threats to your life, but i think that you will be part of this world no matter what you want, so they are trying to force you into understand the dangers and be prepared for them (related to your mother, or no matter the motivation).
With the driving, yes Wilfred was the one who was driving. But I don't think that necessarily points fingers automatically at him as the one responsible.

Because let's not forget, Joey was the one who was initially supposed to drive MC, not Wilfred. Also, there were Dominico and other Soldatos training in the main DeLuca mansion's front yard.

Now, that's not to say I'm necessarily thinking Joey, Dominco or any of those soldatos are responsible for the brakes.
But that means that the main DeLuca mansion, while only main Family members (Luna, Gracie, Cordia, Isabel, Antonio) may live there (Hopes previously confirmed Wilfred doesn't live in the main mansion, but he has his own abode which is separate from the mansion), DeLuca soldiers who are not main Family members can still visit and hang around without much restrictions, whether it's for work or not.

That leaves the number of potential suspects far more wider than just Wilfred I think (basically, any DeLuca soldier can potentially be the second mole, not just Trino).



With the poison, it's very difficult to balance just the right amount of poison not to kill the MC (DeLucas wouldn't know just how much of a dose the MC was exposed to as a child, and how his immunity would hold to future poison attempts). Even a slight wrong dose, and MC would have been dead.
It's been established from the beginning how important the MC is to the Family.
Perhaps Wilfred, given his incredibly grey morals (compared to Cordia), might be willing to risk it all in order to "test" the MC (or not), but I just don't see it for Cordia tbh.
It just goes against her code of respect and honor she holds by that she preaches often to the MC and Antonio.

After the poisoning, when MC wakes up, Antonio also mentions to MC "Mother is also furious at how this could happen. It's a disgrace something like this happened without our knowledge."

Cordia being complicit, or even just aware of what Wilfred is doing would basically contradict this honor and respect moral code she holds above others.
So even if Wilfred somehow decided to "test" MC, I just don't see Cordia agreeing to such methods.

And it wouldn't really feel out of place to me either even if Cordia wasn't aware of it.
The game has already shown one instance where two of them were in strong disagreement (Wilfred thinks Gracie should start work for the Family vs Cordia think Gracie should stay away from Family Business), and I'm assuming there have already been few instances where Cordia and Wilfred have been at odds regarding decisions and sometimes Wilfred may have done things behind Cordia's back without even getting her approval).



With Beach prison event, I'm not sure I can buy that as a "test."
The girls and MC were sent to Tradimano Family (neutral) territory, and the following lines are said:

Mercenary Boss: "Our orders are clear. Eliminate the boy, leave any of the others alone, especially the girls."

Gottardo: "Leo, with his dying breath, sent an emergency signal."

Gottardo: "Mr. High Five wasn't supposed to be here. When he heard about the emergency signal he asked for permission to come too."

Just far too many things are said, actions done which I feel points it to being an actual attack, rather than it being staged.

Emergency signal, I'm assuming it's a last resort actions that DeLuca soldiers can take when they feel they're in trouble.
Don't see them abusing that for a test.
There's also the fact that both Leo and Trino (and Mercenary, depending on player choice) got killed. I mean sure, we didn't see Leo, but we saw Antonio publicly execute Trino in Cordia's office.
In addition, there is the fact that "Serpent" came to save MC with the emergency signal, and Gottardo also mentions the following:

"Most of the targets were already eliminated when we arrived."

Wouldn't really make sense for them to deceive "Serpent" given Family is already aware of "Serpent"'s closeness with MC's mother (Rina).

Not to mention there is a Cordia scene where she is genuinely grateful (if player chooses MC to opt to try and sacrifice himself for the girls to escape). Even if this was a test by Wilfred (which I doubt, given all the above, but let's hypothetically say he is), I just don't see Cordia putting her girls in harms way like that, even if Mercanry Boss received orders "not to harm the girls."

Besides, the whole event being legit threat is what really brings gravitas to the whole ordeal.
If it was just a test, it would mean at least one or two people died just so MC would have his test (which would be really, really messed up), and frankly I think cheapen the whole ordeal.



With Eiza's situation, well there is the fact that she's the heir of the (now gone) Carnefice Family, who are specialized assassins.
Their aptitude in stealth is incredibly high (perhaps even moreso than the stealth specialists in DeLucas), so I have no trouble thinking someone of Eiza's ability of stealth was able to sneak through DeLuca's mansion security (I mean even Cordia says at the end of Ombra event she can work for a Capo who deals in stealth).

And remember, Wilfred is Consigliere, but that doesn't mean he's physically in charge of every security (he's one man, and the mansion is a huge area). I'd assume the main Family mansion would have its own guards who physically stand watch taking patrols as well as possibly some cameras (And other automated security).

After Luna's kidnapping as a child by Mysterious 6, the mansion's security would be much, much tighter than before, but I think even his system that may seem impenetrable may have some chinks that someone like Eiza might be able to exploit to gain entry.


So tbh, I still don't think any of these events were really a test, but who knows, I could be wrong and it could be, or not.
Only Hopes can tell us how it all turns out later.
 
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Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
280
I just have to do some thoughts around your first theory:



- I think it is not 'easy' to kill anyone else, even Gracie, inside the mansion. Cordia seems to be in a very good shape :love: and I have my doubts if someone below the 'serpent' level could outmatch her these days (since she was one of the original serpents), even on a surprise stealth attack or a full-scale invasion. But, I'd like to see any of them trying! :devilish: (Here I come, my Queen!) :ROFLMAO:
What im trying to say is that looks like "easy" to harm them. Think about the food, i can believe that Cordia and Wilfred can survive that, and even Luna, but Gracie? Isabel? Antonio? My point was: if its that easy to infiltrate de mansion or being able to administrate poison in the food of one of the primary Mafia families, then its possible for any enemy to being really close to them (and try to harm them). I can understand that M6 can abduct anyone with a full scale tactical team, but if its that easy to cut brakes in the car, then it will be almost the same to put C4, for example, and blow the car where anyone important was. Its really hard to believe for me that they didnt care to check that kind of things after the M6 with Luna.

- All the assassination attemps was against the MC only, so, the other members inside de mansion are not the primary target. Cordia's remarks on that scene seems to be right, when she tells Wilfred that she thinks someone is trying to embarrass the Delucas and put them on discredit - 'They can not even protect their own people'.

- The MC himself is not treated as a 'rare chinese vase' from the family and associates. His is a outsider and has to prove his valor for the family, even on a contract that puts him under 'their protection' - see the interaction between Antonio and Straffan Fazio when Antonio warned MC "If he claims your head under the Pacificatori, there's nothing to do to save you" - It's not the exact phrase, but can give a ideia how you (the MC) can go to be disposable. On another scene, Gildart, if I remember, talk to Caterina, Amata and Onorina after MC wins the combat against the quasi-capo on the Ombras mission (again, I don't remember the exact words) - "If he died in this combat, he was no worthy to live". Gildart decided to not interfere directly on that struggle just not because MC needed to be toughten himself, but also to prove his valor in combat for his own mission (rescue Fina), to keep safe the 'Delucas pride' (they could not accept losing for anyone) and to the family - or team maximum effort :ROFLMAO: (not being a dead weight on the other's missions).
Ok, they are targeting you, and you are dispensable. That strue, but you are not at the same lvl that a random person trying to be part of the family, and that was clear from the beggining just by being in the house, being in close contact with the girls (even in your contractual situation you had a lot of freedom). You are dispensable, but at the same time you are not the same as a low ranked one.
And if they are targeting you, even if you are dispensable, its strange that they dont care that your enemies can get inside the house or close to the family a lot of times. If the assault (when you were with Luna and Gracie) was real, then it could be possible to kill or abduct the girls, not only for your enemies, but also M6 or family enemies, and thats hard to believe.

- So, Wilfred remains! On that matter, I don't even know more than nothing on him! :ROFLMAO: Some of his actions are blurred, another are full of second intentions, so, you could be right on him 'testing' MC on some level, but, for what purpose? Again, just Hopes knows.

Oh man, I can't wait for next update! :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 1705785
Im really wating the next update too hahaha. And i love to share and read theories.
As for the reason of Wilfred, well, following your own theory, the red flag op, i think that the are trying to prepare you to protect the next family leader (Gracie) (i can explain in detail if its needed), so you will be the next Wilfred in the family.
 

Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
280
With the driving, yes Wilfred was the one who was driving. But I don't think that necessarily points fingers automatically at him as the one responsible.

Because let's not forget, Joey was the one who was initially supposed to drive MC, not Wilfred. Also, there were Dominico and other Soldatos training in the main DeLuca mansion's front yard.

Now, that's not to say I'm necessarily thinking Joey, Dominco or any of those soldatos are responsible for the brakes.
But that means that the main DeLuca mansion, while only main Family members (Luna, Gracie, Cordia, Isabel, Antonio) may live there (Hopes previously confirmed Wilfred doesn't live in the main mansion, but he has his own abode which is separate from the mansion), DeLuca soldiers who are not main Family members can still visit and hang around without much restrictions, whether it's for work or not.

That leaves the number of potential suspects far more wider than just Wilfred I think (basically, any DeLuca soldier can potentially be the second mole, not just Trino).



With the poison, it's very difficult to balance just the right amount of poison not to kill the MC (DeLucas wouldn't know just how much of a dose the MC was exposed to as a child, and how his immunity would hold to future poison attempts). Even a slight wrong dose, and MC would have been dead.
It's been established from the beginning how important the MC is to the Family.
Perhaps Wilfred, given his incredibly grey morals (compared to Cordia), might be willing to risk it all in order to "test" the MC (or not), but I just don't see it for Cordia tbh.
It just goes against her code of respect and honor she holds by that she preaches often to the MC and Antonio.

After the poisoning, when MC wakes up, Antonio also mentions to MC "Mother is also furious at how this could happen. It's a disgrace something like this happened without our knowledge."

Cordia being complicit, or even just aware of what Wilfred is doing would basically contradict this honor and respect moral code she holds above others.
So even if Wilfred somehow decided to "test" MC, I just don't see Cordia agreeing to such methods.

And it wouldn't really feel out of place to me either even if Cordia wasn't aware of it.
The game has already shown one instance where two of them were in strong disagreement (Wilfred thinks Gracie should start work for the Family vs Cordia think Gracie should stay away from Family Business), and I'm assuming there have already been few instances where Cordia and Wilfred have been at odds regarding decisions and sometimes Wilfred may have done things behind Cordia's back without even getting her approval).



With Beach prison event, I'm not sure I can buy that as a "test."
The girls and MC were sent to Tradimano Family (neutral) territory, and the following lines are said:

Mercenary Boss: "Our orders are clear. Eliminate the boy, leave any of the others alone, especially the girls."

Gottardo: "Leo, with his dying breath, sent an emergency signal."

Gottardo: "Mr. High Five wasn't supposed to be here. When he heard about the emergency signal he asked for permission to come too."

Just far too many things are said, actions done which I feel points it to being an actual attack, rather than it being staged.

Emergency signal, I'm assuming it's a last resort actions that DeLuca soldiers can take when they feel they're in trouble.
Don't see them abusing that for a test.
There's also the fact that both Leo and Trino (and Mercenary, depending on player choice) got killed. I mean sure, we didn't see Leo, but we saw Antonio publicly execute Trino in Cordia's office.
In addition, there is the fact that "Serpent" came to save MC with the emergency signal, and Gottardo also mentions the following:

"Most of the targets were already eliminated when we arrived."

Wouldn't really make sense for them to deceive "Serpent" given Family is already aware of "Serpent"'s closeness with MC's mother (Rina).

Not to mention there is a Cordia scene where she is genuinely grateful (if player chooses MC to opt to try and sacrifice himself for the girls to escape). Even if this was a test by Wilfred (which I doubt, given all the above, but let's hypothetically say he is), I just don't see Cordia putting her girls in harms way like that, even if Mercanry Boss received orders "not to harm the girls."

Besides, the whole event being legit threat is what really brings gravitas to the whole ordeal.
If it was just a test, it would mean at least one or two people died just so MC would have his test (which would be really, really messed up), and frankly I think cheapen the whole ordeal.



With Eiza's situation, well there is the fact that she's the heir of the (now gone) Carnefice Family, who are specialized assassins.
Their aptitude in stealth is incredibly high (perhaps even moreso than the stealth specialists in DeLucas), so I have no trouble thinking someone of Eiza's ability of stealth was able to sneak through DeLuca's mansion security (I mean even Cordia says at the end of Ombra event she can work for a Capo who deals in stealth).

And remember, Wilfred is Consigliere, but that doesn't mean he's physically in charge of every security (he's one man, and the mansion is a huge area). I'd assume the main Family mansion would have its own guards who physically stand watch taking patrols as well as possibly some cameras (And other automated security).

After Luna's kidnapping as a child by Mysterious 6, the mansion's security would be much, much tighter than before, but I think even his system that may seem impenetrable may have some chinks that someone like Eiza might be able to exploit to gain entry.


So tbh, I still don't think any of these events were really a test, but who knows, I could be wrong and it could be, or not.
Only Hopes can tell us how it all turns out later.
I love to read all of you, it makes me think a lot and its interesting.

A lot of what you said is against Cordia knowing all of that, but i remember you saying there was a chance that Wilfred has gone rogue.

But i think you and Pee Wee have a good point. I dont believe my theory is perfect, but its hard for me to accept that Cordia didnt make you leave the house or separate you from the girls after seeing the danger around you (even if you was the only target, the collateral damage is something that can happen). But my real theory is much crazy, but i cant support it with dates (Wilfred was trying to prepare the next leader, but Antonio failed after the accident with Isabel, he tried to develop unique skills with Luna but she failed and become unstable, he made Cordia husband disspaear, and Gracie was the only one close to perfection, and the MC can fix the personality fails of Gracie (so Wilfred keeps him close to her), but the next leader will need a right hand like him, so he is forcing you to survive to develop your talents).
 

whichone

Forum Fanatic
Jan 3, 2018
4,915
10,316
Didn't say it wasn't creepy when it's just listening. :sneaky:
Um, yes, you did.
One is just a violaton of women's privacy the other is a major violation of privacy and can be categorized as creepy.
You stated that watching was the one creepy choice & that listening is much the lesser option.
So you're specifically stating that only one of the options (watching) can be categorised as creepy.
Which, therefore, means the other (listening) cannot.

I'm saying that both choices are creepy & do not really amount to any difference.
They both intrude on privacy and they both break trust.
Both amount to the same outcome: MC spied on the family.
Of course, I agree that video is a greater intrusion, but audio is still an intrusion & that is what matters.
Once you cross that line it's wrong, regardless of how much past the line you go.
Yes, video is absolutely worse, but that doesn't make audio any less wrong.
I cannot see Cordia saying, "Oh well, it was only audio, he didn't capture video, so it's OK."

How he spied is, ultimately, irrelevant.
The fact remains that he spied, regardless of how he did it.
So it's the same breach of trust.
Being spied on is the breach, how he spied is not what matters.
It's still a death sentence, whether you listened, or watched.

It's Hobson's choice.
Take a bad person & put them next to an evil person.
Yes, you can say that the evil person is worse.
But that does not make the bad person any better.
I killed 10 people, or I killed 20. Is there really any difference?
Either way, I'm still a mass murderer.
 
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Aug 14, 2021
168
260
Um, yes, you did.

You stated that watching was the one creepy choice & that listening is much the lesser option.
So you're specifically stating that only one of the options (watching) can be categorised as creepy.
Which, therefore, means the other (listening) cannot.

I'm saying that both choices are creepy & do not really amount to any difference.
They both intrude on privacy and they both break trust.
Both amount to the same outcome: MC spied on the family.
Of course, I agree that video is a greater intrusion, but audio is still an intrusion & that is what matters.
Once you cross that line it's wrong, regardless of how much past the line you go.
Yes, video is absolutely worse, but that doesn't make audio any less wrong.
I cannot see Cordia saying, "Oh well, it was only audio, he didn't capture video, so it's OK."

How he spied is, ultimately, irrelevant.
The fact remains that he spied, regardless of how he did it.
So it's the same breach of trust.
Being spied on is the breach, how he spied is not what matters.
It's still a death sentence, whether you listened, or watched.

It's Hobson's choice.
Take a bad person & put them next to an evil person.
Yes, you can say that the evil person is worse.
But that does not make the bad person any better.
I killed 10 people, or I killed 20. Is there really any difference?
Either way, I'm still a mass murderer.
no it may have looked like that with the way i typed. Both are clearly creepy, but one is worse than the other. One you will see girls in underwear and/or naked. The other you cant see either. If you had a daughter which option would make you kill or ripped the guys arm off and beat'em with. While the other just extremely angry and just beat his ass. :ROFLMAO:
Its funny how you like nonsense. Of course matter how much one person killed than the other. Those who kill for no reason in cold blood are more than likely to do it again. To say it the same when one is video while the other is auditory is just nonsensical. You can learn more from a video than you can from someone who is not. You also can see what is going on the other rather than just hearing what going on in the room.Your illogical logic is flabbergasting. Especially since you can see the difference in taking a woman's modesty and privacy while the other is just invading someone's privacy, :ROFLMAO:
 

whichone

Forum Fanatic
Jan 3, 2018
4,915
10,316
no it may have looked like that with the way i typed. Both are clearly creepy, but one is worse than the other.
It looked that way because that is what you said. I quote you directly, again:
One is just a violaton of women's privacy the other is a major violation of privacy and can be categorized as creepy.
There are two options.
You have provided being "categorised as creepy" as a specific point of differentiation, between the 2 options.
If you state that only one can be considered creepy, which you did, this defines that the other cannot.
It's basic deduction.
Its funny how you like nonsense. Of course matter how much one person killed than the other. Those who kill for no reason in cold blood are more than likely to do it again.
I do not know why you're going on about their supposed justification for killing, this does not come into it.
I specifically said there is no difference between someone who's killed 10 people and another who's killed 20, they are both mass murderers.
This is a fact.
To say it the same when one is video while the other is auditory is just nonsensical. You can learn more from a video than you can from someone who is not. You also can see what is going on the other rather than just hearing what going on in the room.Your illogical logic is flabbergasting. Especially since you can see the difference in taking a woman's modesty and privacy while the other is just invading someone's privacy, :ROFLMAO:
I did not say that there is no difference between audio and video. I specifcally, repeatedly, stated that video is worse.
I said there is no difference in the outcome.
Video being worse does not make audio any better.
This is a fact.

Crossing the line and invading on their privacy is where the issue/transgression lies.
Audio crosses the line.
Going further past the line with video, whilst making it worse, is still irrelevant to the outcome.
You still crossed the line, regardless of how far past it you went.
You stole 1 chocolate bar, or you stole 2. Either way, you're still a thief.
Hence the analogy of killing 10, or 20 people.
It does not matter if you "only" killed 10 people. You are still a mass murderer.
Precisely the same as it does not matter if you only chose audio. The outcome is the same, you still spied on them.
I cannot see Cordia saying, "Oh well, it was only audio, he didn't capture video, so it's OK."
Video being more wrong, does not make audio any more right.
It's still wrong &, as I said, you're still dead, either way.
It's Hobson's Choice.

The logic is clear and distinct. I am sorry if you are unable to follow it.
 
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Aug 14, 2021
168
260
It looked that way because that is what you said. I quote you directly, again:

There are two options.
You have provided being "categorised as creepy" as a specific point of differentiation, between the 2 options.
If you state that only one can be considered creepy, which you did, this defines that the other cannot.
It's basic deduction.

I do not know why you're going on about their supposed justification for killing, this does not come into it.
I specifically said there is no difference between someone who's killed 10 people and another who's killed 20, they are both mass murderers.
This is a fact.

I did not say that there is no difference between audio and video. I specifcally, repeatedly, stated that video is worse.
I said there is no difference in the outcome.
Video being worse does not make audio any better.
This is a fact.

Crossing the line and invading on their privacy is where the issue/transgression lies.
Audio crosses the line.
Going further past the line with video, whilst making it worse, is still irrelevant to the outcome.
You still crossed the line, regardless of how far past it you went.
You stole 1 chocolate bar, or you stole 2. Either way, you're still a thief.
Hence the analogy of killing 10, or 20 people.
It does not matter if you "only" killed 10 people. You are still a mass murderer.
Precisely the same as it does not matter if you only chose audio. The outcome is the same, you still spied on them.

Video being more wrong, does not make audio any more right.
It's still wrong &, as I said, you're still dead, either way.
It's Hobson's Choice.

The logic is clear and distinct. I am sorry if you are unable to follow it.
First off what i was saying that with the way I typed it i understand why you think that is what i meant. I was saying I did not type my thoughts well. That both are clearly creepy its just that one is creepier than the other.

Secondly, the quote you quoted was not about justifying killing. I understand why you thought that. I added that end cause of multiple conversations going on. LOL My point" of what you quoted" was its nonsensical to talk about killing numbers between cold blooded killers and invading someone's privacy with video and audio or just audio. Let me explain it this way, with fingers and thumbs. All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. You are pointing out the general point that all thumbs are fingers, Both video and audio are an invasion of privacy. My point is that not all thumbs are fingers. What I mean is that (Which i explained which would make you madder audio invasion of privacy or the video invasion of privacy of the daughter you may or may not have) Audio invasion of privacy is creepy and invasion of privacy. Which would also make the person feel unsafe. Invasion of privacy through video and audio has more than just the implications of audio. Take a young woman who is pure. Never looked at porn, had sex or masterbated. Her invasion of privacy, through video, would show her in her underwear and/or naked. That takes away her modesty and dignity. Just cause both are invasion of privacy does not make them the exact same. You saying that its the same talking about he numbers of two cold blooded killers made no sense. Cause in comparing that with invasion or privacy just showed you have no clue what you are talking about. If it was calculating the number of audio invations and video and audio then it would be right. You should have typed that its like killing one person in self defense or protecting someone verses killing someone in cold blooded. Then it would fit more, but my point still holds more water cause you are generalizing things to much. Your generalization is basically correct, that both are an invasion of privacy, but one can do more damage than the other. Sometimes generalizing things is good, but sometimes you over gernaralize things and miss the important part.
 

whichone

Forum Fanatic
Jan 3, 2018
4,915
10,316
LOL My point" of what you quoted" was its nonsensical to talk about killing numbers between cold blooded killers and invading someone's privacy with video and audio or just audio.
I never once made a comparison between numbers of victims and invading someone's privacy.
It was a perfectly valid analogy, not a comparison. There is nothing nonsensical about it.
You not being able to see the sense, does not mean that it does not contain any.

I made a comparison between 2 high numbers of murders & the fact that the punishment is the same, regardless.
It doesn't make any difference if they killed 10, or 20.
Both get the death sentence, or both spend the rest of their natural lives in prison.

I made this as an analogy, because it's the same premise. It's just more extreme.
I think you're stuck on comparing audio and video, treat them independently.
Once you've chosen, whichever one you went with, the other is no longer a consideration anyway.
If you chose audio then, to them, there is no video. So there is no "audio is not as bad".
Audio is plenty bad enough in its own right & that's what it will be judged on. Utterly regardless of video being worse.

For a moment, forget all about the existence of video.
Now, take the scenario where you placed the audio and got caught listening in to some private stuff, business or personal.
You're going to get executed, as a result.
Or, disregarding audio, you place video & get caught.
You're going to get executed, as a result.

So the end result is still the same, same as it is for 10, or 20 murders. Hence the analogy.
Which is precisely why I'm saying that the actual choice is a false dilemma anyway, it's inconsequential.
It's Hobson's Choice.
 
Last edited:
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Reactions: Thrill'n Flares
Jul 17, 2019
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While I know the game is not abandoned, I do have to admit that I am disappointed in it's progress.

We had the whole "reworking the mission system" thing that took a good part of a year, then we received promises that the next few updates would be regular speed, no long in betweens without update, as is the usual progress Hopes does for the game (big update, few smaller updates, then back to a big update). Right now we should be getting a few smaller updates, meanwhile we are nearing a year again, without an update.

We were told before new year that it would most likely be end of December, or early into the new year. We are well into the 3rd month of the new year and the update isn't even completed yet.

I understand this is a part-time project for Hopes, however I feel like since the release of 0.6.5 (which was June 19th, 2020), the development has gone downhill.

All updates with dates I could find on patreon (Not including translations as they are pretty much completely irrelevant)
0.02 - Sep 9th, 2018
0.03 - Nov 15th, 2018 (2 months, 6 days)
0.04.1 - April 7th, 2019 (4 months, 23 days)
0.05 - Sep 28th, 2019 (5 months, 21 days)
0.06.1 - March 22nd, 2020 (5 months, 23 days)
0.06.5 - June 19th, 2020 (2 months, 28 days)
0.07.2 - April 8th, 2021 (9 months, 20 days)
0.08 - ?? At earliest April 1st, 2022 (1 year+)

Besides the mid-sized update from 0.06.1 to 0.06.5, every update has increased the time it takes. While this can be attributed to higher quality etc as well, I would also assume that overtime, other things would become faster as you become more used to them.

While I enjoy the game, in it's current state I am not willing to pay more than $1 a month to see where it's going (which I am). I'm mainly just curious at this point, whether Hopes just lost motivation to work on the game compared to how they did before, or what has changed that this update in specific takes over twice as long as the largest update before this (not counting the 0.07.2 update which completely reworked the mission system)
 

justsum

Member
Mar 22, 2020
176
246
IMHO this game is one of the best on this site. Granted it's subjective to ones tastes, I have played about 25 or so games on this site and many of them really are great games, but, The Delucia Family is my favorite with some close 2nds right behind. That being said, and I speak for myself, for me long times is OK in between updates.
 
Aug 14, 2021
168
260
I never once made a comparison between numbers of victims and invading someone's privacy.
It was a perfectly valid analogy, not a comparison. There is nothing nonsensical about it.
You not being able to see the sense, does not mean that it does not contain any.

I made a comparison between 2 high numbers of murders & the fact that the punishment is the same, regardless.
It doesn't make any difference if they killed 10, or 20.
Both get the death sentence, or both spend the rest of their natural lives in prison.

I made this as an analogy, because it's the same premise. It's just more extreme.
I think you're stuck on comparing audio and video, treat them independently.
Once you've chosen, whichever one you went with, the other is no longer a consideration anyway.
If you chose audio then, to them, there is no video. So there is no "audio is not as bad".
Audio is plenty bad enough in its own right & that's what it will be judged on. Utterly regardless of video being worse.

For a moment, forget all about the existence of video.
Now, take the scenario where you placed the audio and got caught listening in to some private stuff, business or personal.
You're going to get executed, as a result.
Or, disregarding audio, you place video & get caught.
You're going to get executed, as a result.

So the end result is still the same, same as it is for 10, or 20 murders. Hence the analogy.
Which is precisely why I'm saying that the actual choice is a false dilemma anyway, it's inconsequential.
It's Hobson's Choice.
First off you are misunderstanding what i was saying. I was simplifying each side. Of course you were giving an analogy.
Second of all its like you did not finish reading what I typed. Analogizing number of kills from two different cold blooded killers and the privacy invasion of video and audio or just audio is illogically dumb. Especially since mass murdering people will get consecutive penalities in a court of law depending on what can be proven in confines of the law. If you really don't understand the difference of actual consequences of the differences of Video, that normallycontains audio, and audio then its like you think video is the exact same thing as audio and video and audio is redundant. The logic you are spouting makes no sense. saying some one who does just video or just audio definitely will get the same "sentence" is disregarding the emotional factor that is normally involved and who is doing the sentencing. Also i feel this debate is useless cause hopes will definitely have consequences the same regardless, if any, cause how the game environment is. LOL
 
Aug 14, 2021
168
260
While I know the game is not abandoned, I do have to admit that I am disappointed in it's progress.

We had the whole "reworking the mission system" thing that took a good part of a year, then we received promises that the next few updates would be regular speed, no long in betweens without update, as is the usual progress Hopes does for the game (big update, few smaller updates, then back to a big update). Right now we should be getting a few smaller updates, meanwhile we are nearing a year again, without an update.

We were told before new year that it would most likely be end of December, or early into the new year. We are well into the 3rd month of the new year and the update isn't even completed yet.

I understand this is a part-time project for Hopes, however I feel like since the release of 0.6.5 (which was June 19th, 2020), the development has gone downhill.

All updates with dates I could find on patreon (Not including translations as they are pretty much completely irrelevant)
0.02 - Sep 9th, 2018
0.03 - Nov 15th, 2018 (2 months, 6 days)
0.04.1 - April 7th, 2019 (4 months, 23 days)
0.05 - Sep 28th, 2019 (5 months, 21 days)
0.06.1 - March 22nd, 2020 (5 months, 23 days)
0.06.5 - June 19th, 2020 (2 months, 28 days)
0.07.2 - April 8th, 2021 (9 months, 20 days)
0.08 - ?? At earliest April 1st, 2022 (1 year+)

Besides the mid-sized update from 0.06.1 to 0.06.5, every update has increased the time it takes. While this can be attributed to higher quality etc as well, I would also assume that overtime, other things would become faster as you become more used to them.

While I enjoy the game, in it's current state I am not willing to pay more than $1 a month to see where it's going (which I am). I'm mainly just curious at this point, whether Hopes just lost motivation to work on the game compared to how they did before, or what has changed that this update in specific takes over twice as long as the largest update before this (not counting the 0.07.2 update which completely reworked the mission system)
To a degree i understand your disappointment, but with the fact that gaming development is not his full time job, The fact he has a life outside of game development and work, and he got covid it makes sense that we would get long waits on updates. He is one person not a whole team. There is also the fact that sense i do not know coding at all it makes me not wanna look like a dick and complain about something I have no knowledge about. Hell for all we know there could have been other things happening in his life that we are not privy to. I find its better to be understanding than let dissapointment nor my emotions get the the better of me. Such things take a toll on a person's health. lol
 

Lorenz1

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
885
2,352
A story as long as time, known to every person who ever worked in IT or project management - never, ever, EVER remake your entire product. It is never worth it unless it is a post-completion patch to make it look prettier when all else is done and you are polishing the result.

You are losing temp and speed of the development, you are not creating any new value (only remaking the existing content), and only make it harder to return into the development process after you done remaking it (if you ever are).

Never. Remake. Your. Product. Keep going until it is complete, than think about polishing.
 
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