Master of Puppets

Conversation Conqueror
Oct 5, 2017
7,572
10,109
As long as it is obj format I can add it into daz and simply use shaders if the object is pieced well enough together.
But really need to find something that hits all paremeters. Problem is that I have to pay for it first before I know if it is usuable. Haven't looked too deep in converting from blender to daz tho. Maybe that will help.
Blender can export to obj or fbx, obviously, as well as having a Daz pipeline. Odds are pretty good that a large number of the assets on the Daz stores were made in Blender, it's the choice for people who don't want to pay for something like Max or Maya.
 
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Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
281
I replayed the game and took a lot of notes, so I wanted to write this to share facts an theories with you all. As always, if my english is too bad, sorry for that.

First of all lets number our misteries so far (at least the ones i think are more important):
1- All the Contract situation.
2- Who you really are, and who your family were/are.
3- Who is behind the assassination atempts (againts you).

Then we have other misteries regarding the girls and other characters that may or may not be related to the ones that I wrote before or depend on the characters and were not initially related to you such us:
4- The Mysterous 6.
5- The Forrest.
etc


1) What we know about the contract is very little. So far I dont think we have enough amount of info to build a case, we just know we needed the Law Book (and they were obliged to give it to us) but Luna burned it and we need to wait for a new copy.

2) About the reason why we are that important:
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About your family:
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3) What about the assassination atempts? Maybe they are not all connected to the same cause or enemy, because some of them can be related to how this Mafia world works.
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4) Related to M6:
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5) Related to The Forrest we only know that Luna said it was the scariest day of her life. That some people think that Gracie started to change. And Gracie cant remember anything.


Some theories/ideas:
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Sorry if it was too long to read. Or boring. I tried to keep it short (yeah, this VN is amazing and that makes really hard to be brief.
 

Paco Loco

Active Member
Dec 27, 2018
537
1,414
I really loved what you did. If you can try to make one when Luna face is uncovered (she does it after the 'Test' of trust).
She has such an lovely face, and i really love her expressions.
Thanks, bro. I already did some, but I had a little problem. This fuckin' thing that I'm using doesn't recognize freckles (yes freckles goddamit! :ROFLMAO:) and mess up with the faces from Luna and Cordia if I don't use some resources. :cautious:
 
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JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
3,195
6,749
I replayed the game and took a lot of notes, so I wanted to write this to share facts an theories with you all. As always, if my english is too bad, sorry for that.

First of all lets number our misteries so far (at least the ones i think are more important):
1- All the Contract situation.
2- Who you really are, and who your family were/are.
3- Who is behind the assassination atempts (againts you).

Then we have other misteries regarding the girls and other characters that may or may not be related to the ones that I wrote before or depend on the characters and were not initially related to you such us:
4- The Mysterous 6.
5- The Forrest.
etc


1) What we know about the contract is very little. So far I dont think we have enough amount of info to build a case, we just know we needed the Law Book (and they were obliged to give it to us) but Luna burned it and we need to wait for a new copy.

2) About the reason why we are that important:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

About your family:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

3) What about the assassination atempts? Maybe they are not all connected to the same cause or enemy, because some of them can be related to how this Mafia world works.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

4) Related to M6:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

5) Related to The Forrest we only know that Luna said it was the scariest day of her life. That some people think that Gracie started to change. And Gracie cant remember anything.


Some theories/ideas:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Sorry if it was too long to read. Or boring. I tried to keep it short (yeah, this VN is amazing and that makes really hard to be brief.
The thing is with the whole "Whodunit" in terms of the mole, majority of fans have speculated it's either Wilfred or Antonio.
Personally though, I'm hoping it's someone else.

Both Wilfred and Antonio just seem to be too obvious choices (no offense to pick predicting them, but they are for me), and my personal hope is that it's someone unexpected by most people.


With Dante being "Serpent" hmmm....... the shoe does seem to fit well for him, so honestly? Wouldn't be surprised even if that ended up being the case.
Though, there's one thing that nags on my mind:

If "Serpent" = Dante,
- Why did Dante not end up with the Carnefice Family, the Family which his mentor is the Don and end up with the DeLucas?

A lot to ponder I guess. :unsure:
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,491
5,657
If "Serpent" = Dante,
- Why did Dante not end up with the Carnefice Family, the Family which his mentor is the Don and end up with the DeLucas?

A lot to ponder I guess. :unsure:
Well, if I recall correctly, it's not clear which happened first - the demise of the Carnefice family, or Serpent joining the DeLuca family. So it's entirely possible for Dante to join the DeLuca family and use the alias Serpent after the Carnefice family was wiped out by the Ombra family. The fact that Serpent is always hiding his face could very well mean he had a secret past.
 

JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
3,195
6,749
Well, if I recall correctly, it's not clear which happened first - the demise of the Carnefice family, or Serpent joining the DeLuca family. So it's entirely possible for Dante to join the DeLuca family and use the alias Serpent after the Carnefice family was wiped out by the Ombra family. The fact that Serpent is always hiding his face could very well mean he had a secret past.
That would depend on how long the current second iteration of Serpents have been active for, and when the events of "The Devil's Shadow" (extinction of Carnefice Family by Ombras) took place.

Cause iirc, while it's not specifically stated how long the current Serpents have been active for, it's been sort of implied (by other characters, like Giocabbe, Luca, Gracie etc) that they have been for quite a while, enough to make their fame be a legendary status (not sure they were actively during "The Big War" or not, but even so definitely a long time).

So "Serpent" joining DeLuca after Carnefice Family's demise I think it doesn't really fit well, because he only became "Serpent" after joining DeLucas (I mean can't be one of the Serpents when he's still affiliated with Carnefice Family, no matter how much friendly terms the Family is with DeLucas).

And also, such scenario would mean Carnefice Family met its demise a long time ago before "Serpent" even started to get known as one of 4 Serpents. That's a really long time for Eiza to be under the chains of Ombra Family (and also long time for her sister Fina to be captive).
The 2 girls going through hardships for long period like that, if that was the case, I must admit it would make me sad. :cry:


My theory is, if Dante = "Serpent", then when he was young he first began as a student under Efrem learning the mastery of stealth and assassination.
Wilfred found out about Dante, and being in feud with Efrem, tried to lure Efrem's student away from him but failed.

Dante studied under Efrem, and became a master in assassination arts but eventually had a falling out with Efrem and sometime later, ended up with DeLucas (for unknown reasons which will be revealed later).
He became infamous as "Serpent" of the new 4 Serpents.
But years later, him, Cordia and Wilfred were too late too stop the Family's demise with Efrem perishing in "The Devil's Shadow."
Eventually he is able to pay his debt to his former mentor by being the commander in charge of Ombra mission, and his able to save his mentor's daughter with MC's help.

Things may or may not play out like above, but that's my theory (with assumption that it hasn't been that long time since events of The Devil's Shadow till MC's Ombra mission).
 
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LostGhost

Member
May 16, 2021
474
586
Well, if I recall correctly, it's not clear which happened first - the demise of the Carnefice family, or Serpent joining the DeLuca family. So it's entirely possible for Dante to join the DeLuca family and use the alias Serpent after the Carnefice family was wiped out by the Ombra family. The fact that Serpent is always hiding his face could very well mean he had a secret past.
Well I always thought he's(serpent) the ex fiance of MC's mother
 
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Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
281
The thing is with the whole "Whodunit" in terms of the mole, majority of fans have speculated it's either Wilfred or Antonio.
Personally though, I'm hoping it's someone else.

Both Wilfred and Antonio just seem to be too obvious choices (no offense to pick predicting them, but they are for me), and my personal hope is that it's someone unexpected by most people.


With Dante being "Serpent" hmmm....... the shoe does seem to fit well for him, so honestly? Wouldn't be surprised even if that ended up being the case.
Though, there's one thing that nags on my mind:

If "Serpent" = Dante,
- Why did Dante not end up with the Carnefice Family, the Family which his mentor is the Don and end up with the DeLucas?

A lot to ponder I guess. :unsure:
I'm with you, Wilfred was presented as a puppet master and even Cordia aknowledged that. So we are kind of expecting him doing something like that. But what if that's his point? He looks like someone trying to test you some times, and the one encouraging you to participate in missions.
If all of this were only to develop your skills it's kind of strange, but if he is doing this for Cordia and the girls that's another matter. He wanted Gracie to participate in the family and that already happened, he wanted Cordia to change her self pity and she already started to giggle and talking more, he wanted to speed things up with M6 and Luna and started something to made you and her talk about that (he knows you will help).

So if he sees you not only as a potential candidate to high ranks (as Guildart and Gracie said) but as a mean to another end to change them. Them it makes sense to force all this because in his hands there was never any damage.

Something tells me that there are not a lot of time for some reason and he is trying to prepare you all for a the war that's coming, while Cordia believes she can avoid it.


About Serpent - Dante remember that Efren took him but died in some point. A pupil of Efren or Wilfred probably will have Capo-Serpent-Gent talent. So after Efren died maybe he went the the friend of her father.


Another thing in my mind is: Could be the father/mother of MC behind M6. Such a big organization needs to have a Serpent rank leader.and an enemy with Cordia standards. And I remember the female voice that talked behind the speaker (this is highly circumstancial).

Or was Lucan being held by M6 the hole time as Luna? It looked that way too. But he was no one, a delivery guy. But Angelo said (when walking with Antonio in the attack to the wearhouse where Straffan is) he inherited the violence of his father. Unless I'm missing something Lucan is his father. Or are they talking about the father of Cordia?
 
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Jimayo

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2018
1,606
1,921
Nah he couldn't be he's different from MC's father's attributes and he hates MC's father
Yeah, so? I mean I hate myself and I certainly haven't abandoned my child nor signed them up for the mob. That really doesn't prove anything,
 

Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
281
Yeah, so? I mean I hate myself and I certainly haven't abandoned my child nor signed them up for the mob. That really doesn't prove anything,
It's really circumstancial. MC father has black hair, but Serpent doesn't. You could think he changed his hair colour but why Eiza daughter is that important for him? Why he abandoned you and everyone saying he doesn't care about anyone and is ambitious and without honor, but Serpent is trying to protect you, it doesn't make sense.

And remember the thing where he has other children's and he is in touch with them but not with you. And his eyes are different colour too.

If you see all the info it doesn't look like he is MC father. I thought the Mr Moustache could be, for example, not because appearance but personality.

But so far we don't have enough to say about his father.
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,491
5,657
That would depend on how long the current second iteration of Serpents have been active for, and when the events of "The Devil's Shadow" (extinction of Carnefice Family by Ombras) took place.

Cause iirc, while it's not specifically stated how long the current Serpents have been active for, it's been sort of implied (by other characters, like Giocabbe, Luca, Gracie etc) that they have been for quite a while, enough to make their fame be a legendary status (not sure they were actively during "The Big War" or not, but even so definitely a long time).

So "Serpent" joining DeLuca after Carnefice Family's demise I think it doesn't really fit well, because he only became "Serpent" after joining DeLucas (I mean can't be one of the Serpents when he's still affiliated with Carnefice Family, no matter how much friendly terms the Family is with DeLucas).

And also, such scenario would mean Carnefice Family met its demise a long time ago before "Serpent" even started to get known as one of 4 Serpents. That's a really long time for Eiza to be under the chains of Ombra Family (and also long time for her sister Fina to be captive).
The 2 girls going through hardships for long period like that, if that was the case, I must admit it would make me sad. :cry:


My theory is, if Dante = "Serpent", then when he was young he first began as a student under Efrem learning the mastery of stealth and assassination.
Wilfred found out about Dante, and being in feud with Efrem, tried to lure Efrem's student away from him but failed.

Dante studied under Efrem, and became a master in assassination arts but eventually had a falling out with Efrem and sometime later, ended up with DeLucas (for unknown reasons which will be revealed later).
He became infamous as "Serpent" of the new 4 Serpents.
But years later, him, Cordia and Wilfred were too late too stop the Family's demise with Efrem perishing in "The Devil's Shadow."
Eventually he is able to pay his debt to his former mentor by being the commander in charge of Ombra mission, and his able to save his mentor's daughter with MC's help.

Things may or may not play out like above, but that's my theory (with assumption that it hasn't been that long time since events of The Devil's Shadow till MC's Ombra mission).
The way I understood the lore, "The Big War" was more than two decades ago before any of Cordia's children were born. It was the war that established the DeLuca family as one of the new Big 5 families. That to me means it was the OG Serpents that was involved in that war. It would then be entirely possible to have the Carnefice family wiped out, and Dante to take secret refuge in the Deluca family, hiding his past as a Carnefice (because that would bring the DeLuca into the Ombra-Carnefice war), and take on a new identity and establish himself as one of the new generation Serpents.

Also, I don't think it's been established that Eiza was under the chains of Ombra ever since the demise of the Carnefice family. I think it would make more sense for for Eiza to have been a "free agent" until recent times, when the Ombra family kidnapped Fina in order to force Eiza to take on the job.
 
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Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
281
The way I understood the lore, "The Big War" was more than two decades ago before any of Cordia's children were born. It was the war that established the DeLuca family as one of the new Big 5 families. That to me means it was the OG Serpents that was involved in that war. It would then be entirely possible to have the Carnefice family wiped out, and Dante to take secret refuge in the Deluca family, hiding his past as a Carnefice (because that would bring the DeLuca into the Ombra-Carnefice war), and take on a new identity and establish himself as one of the new generation Serpents.

Also, I don't think it's been established that Eiza was under the chains of Ombra ever since the demise of the Carnefice family. I think it would make more sense for for Eiza to have been a "free agent" until recent times, when the Ombra family kidnapped Fina in order to force Eiza to take on the job.
I think something like that happened related to the Eiza and her sister situation.

About the war it's hard to tell. We know the age that Cordia has now and we saw pictures of her while being younger in the war but it's hard to tell.
But if I'm correct the DeLuca were founded by the four serpents (the originally). And at that time Cordia was disciple of Wilfred (and they fought together in the war), so when MC was young Wilfred and his people (The Enigmas I presume) were scouting you, but that probably happened after the war ended. So that means around 20 years in the past at least.
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,491
5,657
I think something like that happened related to the Eiza and her sister situation.

About the war it's hard to tell. We know the age that Cordia has now and we saw pictures of her while being younger in the war but it's hard to tell.
But if I'm correct the DeLuca were founded by the four serpents (the originally). And at that time Cordia was disciple of Wilfred (and they fought together in the war), so when MC was young Wilfred and his people (The Enigmas I presume) were scouting you, but that probably happened after the war ended. So that means around 20 years in the past at least.
Just took another quick look in the game. Antonio is 30 years old while Luna and Gracie are only 19 & 18 respectively.

I'm beginning to think that I was wrong about all of the Deluca children were born after the Big War. Maybe that happened between Antonio's and Luna's birth. But other than that, I think the rest of my theory is still valid.
 
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Rovenant

Member
Apr 18, 2021
166
281
Just took another quick look in the game. Antonio is 30 years old while Luna and Gracie are only 19 & 18 respectively.

I'm beginning to think that I was wrong about all of the Deluca children were born after the Big War. Maybe that happened between Antonio's and Luna's birth. But other than that, I think the rest of my theory is still valid.
If i have to guess i would think that the war happened before Cordia and Lucan were togheter. M6 took Luna when she was 6 years old, and in the "present" she has 19. We dont know MC age, but he said that Isabel isnt much older than him (and she has 29), and MC father left him when he was 10 y/o.
If the Serpents betrayed Cordia she probably fight against them, and if Wilfred knew where MC was (scouting him since he was a child) then maybe that treason happened 17 years in the past? (JJJ84 look this numbers if you can, you probably have already a theory); because its hard to think that Rina betrayed Cordia and at the same time living with you (when your father left she started her unusual "training" with you).
 
Aug 14, 2021
168
260
I replayed the game and took a lot of notes, so I wanted to write this to share facts an theories with you all. As always, if my english is too bad, sorry for that.

First of all lets number our misteries so far (at least the ones i think are more important):
1- All the Contract situation.
2- Who you really are, and who your family were/are.
3- Who is behind the assassination atempts (againts you).

Then we have other misteries regarding the girls and other characters that may or may not be related to the ones that I wrote before or depend on the characters and were not initially related to you such us:
4- The Mysterous 6.
5- The Forrest.
etc


1) What we know about the contract is very little. So far I dont think we have enough amount of info to build a case, we just know we needed the Law Book (and they were obliged to give it to us) but Luna burned it and we need to wait for a new copy.

2) About the reason why we are that important:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

About your family:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

3) What about the assassination atempts? Maybe they are not all connected to the same cause or enemy, because some of them can be related to how this Mafia world works.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

4) Related to M6:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

5) Related to The Forrest we only know that Luna said it was the scariest day of her life. That some people think that Gracie started to change. And Gracie cant remember anything.


Some theories/ideas:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Sorry if it was too long to read. Or boring. I tried to keep it short (yeah, this VN is amazing and that makes really hard to be brief.
Your theories/ideas are sound and not to far off from what I theorize.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 
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Aug 14, 2021
168
260
I'm with you, Wilfred was presented as a puppet master and even Cordia aknowledged that. So we are kind of expecting him doing something like that. But what if that's his point? He looks like someone trying to test you some times, and the one encouraging you to participate in missions.
If all of this were only to develop your skills it's kind of strange, but if he is doing this for Cordia and the girls that's another matter. He wanted Gracie to participate in the family and that already happened, he wanted Cordia to change her self pity and she already started to giggle and talking more, he wanted to speed things up with M6 and Luna and started something to made you and her talk about that (he knows you will help).

So if he sees you not only as a potential candidate to high ranks (as Guildart and Gracie said) but as a mean to another end to change them. Them it makes sense to force all this because in his hands there was never any damage.

Something tells me that there are not a lot of time for some reason and he is trying to prepare you all for a the war that's coming, while Cordia believes she can avoid it.


About Serpent - Dante remember that Efren took him but died in some point. A pupil of Efren or Wilfred probably will have Capo-Serpent-Gent talent. So after Efren died maybe he went the the friend of her father.


Another thing in my mind is: Could be the father/mother of MC behind M6. Such a big organization needs to have a Serpent rank leader.and an enemy with Cordia standards. And I remember the female voice that talked behind the speaker (this is highly circumstancial).

Or was Lucan being held by M6 the hole time as Luna? It looked that way too. But he was no one, a delivery guy. But Angelo said (when walking with Antonio in the attack to the wearhouse where Straffan is) he inherited the violence of his father. Unless I'm missing something Lucan is his father. Or are they talking about the father of Cordia?
How could Lucan be Antonio's father? If Antonio inherited the violence of his father Lucan can't be his father. Lucan not only has been shown as non aggressive, but also was the "light" of Cordia. He was the reason she smiled. You think a man with a violent attitude could make Cordia smile? I'm not so sure about that. Besides in The Luna Flashback of being captured his attitude in that certain part showed him to not be a violent man in any way. Put Antonio in that situation it would have gone badly. Also wasn't it said he was a peaceful man?
 
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