Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[Rovenant]

Just took another quick look in the game. Antonio is 30 years old while Luna and Gracie are only 19 & 18 respectively.

I'm beginning to think that I was wrong about all of the Deluca children were born after the Big War. Maybe that happened between Antonio's and Luna's birth. But other than that, I think the rest of my theory is still valid.

If i have to guess i would think that the war happened before Cordia and Lucan were togheter. M6 took Luna when she was 6 years old, and in the "present" she has 19. We dont know MC age, but he said that Isabel isnt much older than him (and she has 29), and MC father left him when he was 10 y/o.
If the Serpents betrayed Cordia she probably fight against them, and if Wilfred knew where MC was (scouting him since he was a child) then maybe that treason happened 17 years in the past? (JJJ84 look this numbers if you can, you probably have already a theory); because its hard to think that Rina betrayed Cordia and at the same time living with you (when your father left she started her unusual "training" with you).

 

[Thrill'n Flares]

I replayed the game and took a lot of notes, so I wanted to write this to share facts an theories with you all. As always, if my english is too bad, sorry for that.

First of all lets number our misteries so far (at least the ones i think are more important):
1- All the Contract situation.
2- Who you really are, and who your family were/are.
3- Who is behind the assassination atempts (againts you).

Then we have other misteries regarding the girls and other characters that may or may not be related to the ones that I wrote before or depend on the characters and were not initially related to you such us:
4- The Mysterous 6.
5- The Forrest.
etc


1) What we know about the contract is very little. So far I dont think we have enough amount of info to build a case, we just know we needed the Law Book (and they were obliged to give it to us) but Luna burned it and we need to wait for a new copy.

2) About the reason why we are that important:

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About your family:

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3) What about the assassination atempts? Maybe they are not all connected to the same cause or enemy, because some of them can be related to how this Mafia world works.

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4) Related to M6:

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5) Related to The Forrest we only know that Luna said it was the scariest day of her life. That some people think that Gracie started to change. And Gracie cant remember anything.


Some theories/ideas:

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Sorry if it was too long to read. Or boring. I tried to keep it short (yeah, this VN is amazing and that makes really hard to be brief.

Your theories/ideas are sound and not to far off from what I theorize.

Spoiler: My Theory

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[Thrill'n Flares]

I'm with you, Wilfred was presented as a puppet master and even Cordia aknowledged that. So we are kind of expecting him doing something like that. But what if that's his point? He looks like someone trying to test you some times, and the one encouraging you to participate in missions.
If all of this were only to develop your skills it's kind of strange, but if he is doing this for Cordia and the girls that's another matter. He wanted Gracie to participate in the family and that already happened, he wanted Cordia to change her self pity and she already started to giggle and talking more, he wanted to speed things up with M6 and Luna and started something to made you and her talk about that (he knows you will help).

So if he sees you not only as a potential candidate to high ranks (as Guildart and Gracie said) but as a mean to another end to change them. Them it makes sense to force all this because in his hands there was never any damage.

Something tells me that there are not a lot of time for some reason and he is trying to prepare you all for a the war that's coming, while Cordia believes she can avoid it.


About Serpent - Dante remember that Efren took him but died in some point. A pupil of Efren or Wilfred probably will have Capo-Serpent-Gent talent. So after Efren died maybe he went the the friend of her father.


Another thing in my mind is: Could be the father/mother of MC behind M6. Such a big organization needs to have a Serpent rank leader.and an enemy with Cordia standards. And I remember the female voice that talked behind the speaker (this is highly circumstancial).

Or was Lucan being held by M6 the hole time as Luna? It looked that way too. But he was no one, a delivery guy. But Angelo said (when walking with Antonio in the attack to the wearhouse where Straffan is) he inherited the violence of his father. Unless I'm missing something Lucan is his father. Or are they talking about the father of Cordia?

How could Lucan be Antonio's father? If Antonio inherited the violence of his father Lucan can't be his father. Lucan not only has been shown as non aggressive, but also was the "light" of Cordia. He was the reason she smiled. You think a man with a violent attitude could make Cordia smile? I'm not so sure about that. Besides in The Luna Flashback of being captured his attitude in that certain part showed him to not be a violent man in any way. Put Antonio in that situation it would have gone badly. Also wasn't it said he was a peaceful man?

 

[JJJ84]

The way I understood the lore, "The Big War" was more than two decades ago before any of Cordia's children were born. It was the war that established the DeLuca family as one of the new Big 5 families. That to me means it was the OG Serpents that was involved in that war. It would then be entirely possible to have the Carnefice family wiped out, and Dante to take secret refuge in the Deluca family, hiding his past as a Carnefice (because that would bring the DeLuca into the Ombra-Carnefice war), and take on a new identity and establish himself as one of the new generation Serpents.

Also, I don't think it's been established that Eiza was under the chains of Ombra ever since the demise of the Carnefice family. I think it would make more sense for for Eiza to have been a "free agent" until recent times, when the Ombra family kidnapped Fina in order to force Eiza to take on the job.

The thing is though, there are some inconsistencies which I feel are apparent if that is the case.

Let's take The Big War taking place roughly 2 decades or even longer than 2 decades ago (and say back then it was the OG Serpents).

The current "generation" (also I do think this is sort of wrong word to use, especially if "Serpent" turns out to be Rina's fiance [then that would make him similar age to Cordia, Rina, and likely including MC's biological father]) of Serpents period of activity will also need to be established.
One might assume, that they've been active for at the very minimum like 5 to 10 years (the whole "legendary" status of infamy does not get established over 1 or 2 years. That just feels way too fast in my eyes), but I think the game actually implicitly tells us roughly how long these "new" Serpents have been active for; 13+ years.

How did I come to that?

- Firstly, Luna and Gracie grew up idolizing the 4 Serpents. They spent most of their child watching them in action, and both of them wish to grow up to be one of the Serpents.

- Gottardo refers to Luna as "Little Lulu" and both Luna & Gracie refer to Gottardo as "Uncle Gottardo." Now, I know people can be referred to as "uncle" without being blood related and all (as a mere sign of respect), but even so in this world's case given the established term of affection "Little Lulu" that Gottardo used to call Luna (that she used to love, heh), I'd say Gottardo was one of the 4 Serpents at the time Luna was a little kid.
At the very latest,, him and the 4 Serpents would have been the factor in the family right after the flashback events of "My name is Luna", but I'd imagine it's very possible Gottardo was active as a Serpent for the DeLucas even much before that.


So 13+ years (of new Serpents being active) is a long time for Eiza to be be in the "free agent" case (if we assume The Devil's Shadow event took place before Dante becomes "Serpent"), and tbh, I hope that's not the case (it's a long time to be struggling and putting both Carnefice girls through the wringer).
And besides, that seems not to be the case with what Cordia says to her in that event:

"I did not expect the daughter of Efrem himself would end up doing mercenary work. In fact, that would go against your family honor. Which leads me to believe you are not doing this voluntarily."

As Cordia said, with Eiza being a stickler for Family code and Family honor, I find it most plausible for the story that either with the events of The Devil's Shadow or soon after that event of Carnefice Family's demise, Fina was held captive and Eiza was forced to do their dirty work.
She just doesn't seem to be the type of character who strays from her morals unless she's forced to.

Hence with everything combined, I feel "Serpent" (assuming he is Dante) having a falling out Efrem (before he became "Serpent" for DeLucas, and also before events of The Devil's Shadow), and out of regret of not being able to save his mentor, saves his daughters through MC flows pretty nicely in terms of the storyline.

But when making predictions for games (not just this game, but any game), there have been times I have been wrong before, so I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

 

[Paco Loco]

You know what?
I'd love to see some of our lady soldiers too (Amita, Amata, Onorina, Caterina etc etc) in this artstyle haha.

You still do NOT worth it! JJJ84

Spoiler: Amata

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Spoiler: Amita

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Spoiler: Caterina

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Spoiler: Onorina

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Spoiler: Lelianna

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Spoiler: Siobhan

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Spoiler: Fina

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[Cartageno]

You still do NOT worth it! JJJ84

Spoiler: Amata

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Spoiler: Amita

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Spoiler: Caterina

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Spoiler: Onorina

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Spoiler: Lelianna

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Spoiler: Siobhan

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Spoiler: Fina

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Finally I had a reaction left

 

[Rovenant]

Your theories/ideas are sound and not to far off from what I theorize.

Spoiler: My Theory

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Wait right there. If i remember correctly MC father wasnt a Serpent. He wasnt in the photo, and when Gildart talked about your family he says that your mother was one of them. Ok, that doesnt mean he cant be a high skilled (like a Serpent). And Im with you in that possibility because the man that was in the second room where Luna was could be him (really circumstantial). But if MC father wasnt a Serpent then your mother, who betrayed Cordia (and the DeLuca, because the four first Serpents were who founded the family) then do you think they are together, or your Mother is one another faction, and your father in M6?

But following your theory about MC Father, tell me what you think about this: If your father is doing all of this because of his ambition, what do you think is his final end? why doing all the torture/training? I think that, if we are correct so far, the answer resides in what happened in the war. If someone today wanted to take Cordia and the DeLuca family, then it will need "super soldiers" just to take Wilfred, Cordia, 4 Serpents, and probably others like the Gents; so it makes sense that anyone behind M6 was going for that.

Another thing we still dont know is why "M6" is the name? In the story that Luna told us they never said why. If we believe that was not a silly name (like Mr Moustache who didnt had a moustache) then we can think that there are 6 enemies leading M6. But why your mother betrayed Cordia, and why she started doing that thing to MC, those questions bother me so far because i feel like whe have 3 factions and i only can see 2 right now.

I believe that this VN uses the genetic to explain some things. Some talk about if you have something because your mother was a Serpent, or Antonio having the rage of his father, or Gracie being like Cordia. Going with this theory means that your are not like your father because even when you were a child you used your weakness to your adventage and not your father or mother were like that. I think you can be more like Wilfred, but with more charisma, that means you can manipulate people more than being tactical.

I think that MC mother was part of Enigma or something like that. She did some things to develop your skills (one of the being the poison situation) and Wilfred knows that so when forcing your talents to show he did it with that in his mind. But even if Wilfred wasnt part of that and someone were really trying to kill you, then im with you, MC mother was trying to prepare you to what will happen when you grow up, because the reason why your father left implied to her that you will be in danger in the future.

About the Dante/Serpent theory im not with you in that one hahaha. I think that Serpent could be Dante, but if that was the case he already showed that he protects you a lot of times even when its rare and make others talk. So in that mission he could went to rescue the girl himself (he cant be sure you will be able to save her) if she was his child. So im with JJJ84 and I think more of a debt with his Mentor but being in the DeLuca family takes priority.

 

[Rovenant]

How could Lucan be Antonio's father? If Antonio inherited the violence of his father Lucan can't be his father. Lucan not only has been shown as non aggressive, but also was the "light" of Cordia. He was the reason she smiled. You think a man with a violent attitude could make Cordia smile? I'm not so sure about that. Besides in The Luna Flashback of being captured his attitude in that certain part showed him to not be a violent man in any way. Put Antonio in that situation it would have gone badly. Also wasn't it said he was a peaceful man?

I think the same, but no one talked about other man in her life. That means that so far there are 0 evidence of Antonio being from another father. Even Gracie called him brother, the same girl that said to Isabel that she is the "real" family and Isabel isnt. So, Ill stick (for the moment) with Lucan being father of them three. Its really hard to tell, because Gracie never talked about Lucan either, but Cordia doesnt look like a woman who were able to be with more than one husband (at least thats what a feel).

 

[Cabin Fever]

Your theories/ideas are sound and not to far off from what I theorize.

Spoiler: My Theory

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Well, if Serpent is Dante (which I suspect is the case), there's really no need for him to have an affair with Efrem's wife to make Fina important to him. After all, Fina was his mentor's youngest daughter.

And Cordia doesn't strike me as donna who would harbor someone that made a cuckoo out of his mentor.

 

[Cabin Fever]

The thing is though, there are some inconsistencies which I feel are apparent if that is the case.

Ok, let's unpack this...

Let's take The Big War taking place roughly 2 decades or even longer than 2 decades ago (and say back then it was the OG Serpents).

The current "generation" (also I do think this is sort of wrong word to use, especially if "Serpent" turns out to be Rina's fiance [then that would make him similar age to Cordia, Rina, and likely including MC's biological father]) of Serpents period of activity will also need to be established.

There's isn't enough evidence to support the assumption that Serpent was Rina's fiance. My personal opinion is that he's not. But I don't think it's too relevant either way.

One might assume, that they've been active for at the very minimum like 5 to 10 years (the whole "legendary" status of infamy does not get established over 1 or 2 years. That just feels way too fast in my eyes), but I think the game actually implicitly tells us roughly how long these "new" Serpents have been active for; 13+ years.

How did I come to that?

- Firstly, Luna and Gracie grew up idolizing the 4 Serpents. They spent most of their child watching them in action, and both of them wish to grow up to be one of the Serpents.

- Gottardo refers to Luna as "Little Lulu" and both Luna & Gracie refer to Gottardo as "Uncle Gottardo." Now, I know people can be referred to as "uncle" without being blood related and all (as a mere sign of respect), but even so in this world's case given the established term of affection "Little Lulu" that Gottardo used to call Luna (that she used to love, heh), I'd say Gottardo was one of the 4 Serpents at the time Luna was a little kid.
At the very latest,, him and the 4 Serpents would have been the factor in the family right after the flashback events of "My name is Luna", but I'd imagine it's very possible Gottardo was active as a Serpent for the DeLucas even much before that.

Totally agree with this part.

So 13+ years (of new Serpents being active) is a long time for Eiza to be be in the "free agent" case (if we assume The Devil's Shadow event took place before Dante becomes "Serpent"), and tbh, I hope that's not the case (it's a long time to be struggling and putting both Carnefice girls through the wringer).

Couldn't disagree more. While the Carnefice-Ombra war could very well have happened 13+ years ago, Eiza isn't old enough to have been a assassin until recent years. As Cordia noted, someone from the Carnefice Family should not fail to kill someone like the MC. That indicates that Eiza is still relatively new at the assassination business.

There are other ex-Carnefice members doing mercenary work for random families. I suspect one of those ex-members were fairly senior in rank and raised Eiza and Fina. Eiza is likely only around the same age as Luna & Gracie, since she competed directly with Luna in the Frenetico Tournaments before.

And besides, that seems not to be the case with what Cordia says to her in that event:

"I did not expect the daughter of Efrem himself would end up doing mercenary work. In fact, that would go against your family honor. Which leads me to believe you are not doing this voluntarily."

As Cordia said, with Eiza being a stickler for Family code and Family honor, I find it most plausible for the story that either with the events of The Devil's Shadow or soon after that event of Carnefice Family's demise, Fina was held captive and Eiza was forced to do their dirty work.
She just doesn't seem to be the type of character who strays from her morals unless she's forced to.

There is no disputing that. In fact Eiza freely admits in the same conversation that she's doing this due to the Fina hostage situation.

Hence with everything combined, I feel "Serpent" (assuming he is Dante) having a falling out Efrem (before he became "Serpent" for DeLucas, and also before events of The Devil's Shadow), and out of regret of not being able to save his mentor, saves his daughters through MC flows pretty nicely in terms of the storyline.

But when making predictions for games (not just this game, but any game), there have been times I have been wrong before, so I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

I don't think you've presented any evidence that Dante had a fallout with Efrem at all. I think the following sequence of event is more likely:

1. Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
2. Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem.
3. Ombra wiped out the Carnefice family.
4. Dante took secret refuge under the DeLuca family.
5. Dante hid his real name and his face and became "nameless".
6. As the nameless Dante built up a legendary reputation and became a new generation serpent, People started just calling him Serpent.

 

[Cartageno]

Ok, let's unpack this...

Well, that's what I tried to tell Gracie. However, she kept talking about "intent" all the time ... She wasn't wrong ...

 

[Bloodxdd]

i dont remember Siobhan at all! is she in game?

 

[Paco Loco]

I don't know why I did it. But I think they could be honored due the importance of these two for the story.

Spoiler: Tribute

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[Cabin Fever]

i dont remember Siobhan at all! is she in game?

She is the Scorpion Princess, 2nd daughter of the Ombra family and an important part of their intel gathering operation. MC runs into her in the rescue mission.

 

[JJJ84]

There's isn't enough evidence to support the assumption that Serpent was Rina's fiance. My personal opinion is that he's not. But I don't think it's too relevant either way.

Everything other than the specific scenes or quotes mentioned are of course conjecture. My personal opinion is that he was Rina's ex-fiance (until Rina broke it off and ended up with MC's father, explaining "Serpent"'s whole love & hate relationship with MC, and why he seems to care for Rina so much), but you're right.
It's not really all that relevant (to this discussion). I only stated it to begin the paragraph leading into explanation of the whole 13+ year "new" Serpents period of activity.

Couldn't disagree more. While the Carnefice-Ombra war could very well have happened 13+ years ago, Eiza isn't old enough to have been a assassin until recent years. As Cordia noted, someone from the Carnefice Family should not fail to kill someone like the MC. That indicates that Eiza is still relatively new at the assassination business.

There are other ex-Carnefice members doing mercenary work for random families. I suspect one of those ex-members were fairly senior in rank and raised Eiza and Fina. Eiza is likely only around the same age as Luna & Gracie, since she competed directly with Luna in the Frenetico Tournaments before.

Disagree.

I'm not denying that Eiza is new at the assassination business.
But as you've said, Eiza competed in the Frenetico Tournament.
How is she supposed to compete in Frenetico Tournament against Luna when she's not affiliated in a Family? Assuming Eiza is same age as Luna (19), and if she loses her father due to Devil's Shadow event 13+ years ago (as you're implying), then that means Eiza had to have been without official Family from when she was 6.

I could be wrong but I just don't find it likely that mercenaries are allowed to compete in Frenetico Tournament (which I'd assume have strict rules and structures), and feel that the tournament is run with only competitors officially recognized being ones from a Family.
And even if she somehow competed in Frenetico as a mercenary, the fact that she competed in the tournament itself comes to show that she had reasonable training.

And even in the Mafia world, there's no clear cut rule that Don's kids must immediately be put to work when they come of age.
I mean sure, Gracie is talented, but Cordia expressly forbid Gracie from working for the Family till now (putting aside Gracie's personality flaws aside).
There's nothing which denies that Efrem could have wanted something similar for his daughters.
Better yet, Efrem could have still trained her to some extent (good enough to compete for Frenetico), but opted to not get his daughters involved in actual assassination jobs, perhaps feeling he didn't want his daughters to go through the ugly side of the business yet (hence that could very much explain Eiza's inexperience).

Efrem was killed before he could name his successor or properly train Eiza (if she was his successor), but that doesn't necessarily have to mean Eiza lost her father at such a young age.
There's no evidence of that (and solely inexperience itself isn't enough to convince me of that, because inexperience could have been due to number of other factors).

There is no disputing that. In fact Eiza freely admits in the same conversation that she's doing this due to the Fina hostage situation.

You said in your previous post that you believe she's been free agent, which I interpreted as she's been taking mercenary work, before you added "she was likely raised by old member" in the latest post.
That statement of mine was based on that interpretation.

I don't think you've presented any evidence that Dante had a fallout with Efrem at all. I think the following sequence of event is more likely:

1. Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
2. Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem.
3. Ombra wiped out the Carnefice family.
4. Dante took secret refuge under the DeLuca family.
5. Dante hid his real name and his face and became "nameless".
6. As the nameless Dante built up a legendary reputation and became a new generation serpent, People started just calling him Serpent.

lol I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that the whole "fallout with Efrem" part (and anything which isn't quote or specific game scene) was conjecture from my end (considering almost everything that's being talked about is.... theory).

(No offense, but) I could say the same to you regarding your "Eiza lost her father when she was young and has been living 13+ years as a free agent" theory.
There's also no evidence to suggest that one of the old members have been taking care of Eiza and Fina.
It's all conjecture from both ends (yours and mine) without evidences.

Here's how I think the events may have played out:

1. Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
2. Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
3. Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Efrem chose to side with Cordia, and Dante decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
4. Rina's side loses, and Dante is put in a situation where he decides to submit to Cordia and work for her.
5. Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
6. Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
7. Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.

Perhaps I'm wrong and things will happen as your theory.
But I certainly don't think the story will suffer in any way even if The Devil's Shadow is an event that takes much later in the DeLuca world's chronology in terms of overall timeline (as my theory suggests).

In fact, I think it can work just as well (as putting it in early) if not better.

Now, this back and forth has been fun, but I think this will be my last post regarding this matter (seems like going over each point by point back and forth takes a lot out of me ).
Feel free to leave your reply if you wish though.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Everything other than the specific scenes or quotes mentioned are of course conjecture. My personal opinion is that he was Rina's ex-fiance (until Rina broke it off and ended up with MC's father, explaining "Serpent"'s whole love & hate relationship with MC, and why he seems to care for Rina so much), but you're right.
It's not really all that relevant (to this discussion). I only stated it to begin the paragraph leading into explanation of the whole 13+ year "new" Serpents period of activity.


Disagree.

I'm not denying that Eiza is new at the assassination business.
But as you've said, Eiza competed in the Frenetico Tournament.
How is she supposed to compete in Frenetico Tournament against Luna when she's not affiliated in a Family? Assuming Eiza is same age as Luna (19), and if she loses her father due to Devil's Shadow event 13+ years ago (as you're implying), then that means Eiza had to have been without official Family from when she was 6.

I could be wrong but I just don't find it likely that mercenaries are allowed to compete in Frenetico Tournament (which I'd assume have strict rules and structures), and feel that the tournament is run with only competitors officially recognized being ones from a Family.
And even if she somehow competed in Frenetico as a mercenary, the fact that she competed in the tournament itself comes to show that she had reasonable training.

And even in the Mafia world, there's no clear cut rule that Don's kids must immediately be put to work when they come of age.
I mean sure, Gracie is talented, but Cordia expressly forbid Gracie from working for the Family till now (putting aside Gracie's personality flaws aside).
There's nothing which denies that Efrem could have wanted something similar for his daughters.
Better yet, Efrem could have still trained her to some extent (good enough to compete for Frenetico), but opted to not get his daughters involved in actual assassination jobs, perhaps feeling he didn't want his daughters to go through the ugly side of the business yet (hence that could very much explain Eiza's inexperience).

Efrem was killed before he could name his successor or properly train Eiza (if she was his successor), but that doesn't necessarily have to mean Eiza lost her father at such a young age.
There's no evidence of that (and solely inexperience itself isn't enough to convince me of that, because inexperience could have been due to number of other factors).


You said in your previous post that you believe she's been free agent, which I interpreted as she's been taking mercenary work, before you added "she was likely raised by old member" in the latest post.
That statement of mine was based on that interpretation.


lol I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that the whole "fallout with Efrem" part (and anything which isn't quote or specific game scene) was conjecture from my end (considering almost everything that's being talked about is.... theory).

(No offense, but) I could say the same to you regarding your "Eiza lost her father when she was young and has been living 13+ years as a free agent" theory.
There's also no evidence to suggest that one of the old members have been taking care of Eiza and Fina.
It's all conjecture from both ends (yours and mine) without evidences.

Here's how I think the events may have played out:

1. Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
2. Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
3. Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Efrem chose to side with Cordia, and Dante decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
4. Rina's side loses, and Dante is put in a situation where he decides to submit to Cordia and work for her.
5. Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
6. Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
7. Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.

Perhaps I'm wrong and things will happen as your theory.
But I certainly don't think the story will suffer in any way even if The Devil's Shadow is an event that takes much later in the DeLuca world's chronology in terms of overall timeline (as my theory suggests).

In fact, I think it can work just as well (as putting it in early) if not better.

Now, this back and forth has been fun, but I think this will be my last post regarding this matter (seems like going over each point by point back and forth takes a lot out of me ).
Feel free to leave your reply if you wish though.

Fair enough. It's all conjecture at this point. But let me add a twist to your latest timeline suggestion, which makes more sense to me:

1. Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
2. Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
3. Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Dante chose to side with Cordia, and Efren decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
4. Rina's side loses, and Dante, not wanting to carry the burden of being known for opposing his mentor, chose to hide his face and start over as a nameless soldier under Cordia. Obviously, his new donna Cordia knows his true identity.
5. Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
6. Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
7. Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.

 

[Rovenant]

This is what we know so far. The "year 0" isnt a relevant event, just a random starting point. The events regarding MC are a guess of mine because we dont know MC age, but he said Isabel wasnt much older than him, so if she has 29 in the present, this timeline is based in MC having 25.

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So, with this in mind, lets talk about facts first:
- When Luna was with his father (the day that M6 took her) the DeLuca were already an important family (there are a lot of references to this point).
- We know that the original Serpents founded the DeLuca family. So they did it, probably, after the war (or in that time).

At this point we can say (if you are with me and my numbers) that the war happened AT LEAST 19 years before the present time.

My guess is that taking the comments that Giacobbe said when talking with Cordia, refering to her as a young woman. I would guess that the war happened before Antonio birth. That means a minimum of 30 years in the past, when Cordia has between 15 to 19 years. This is my theory, the war wasnt long, the Serpents made that possible and the comments of Giacobbe of how impressive they were made me believe this. So the war was between 30-35 years in the past, and that means it was quick, then the treason of the Serpents, and the grils growing when the new Serpents were in the family.

 

[HopesGaming]

That timetable is so much better than mine
I just have a picture of my whiteboard.

The lore of the Ombra and Carnefice Family (which is finished and ready to publish) actually has a good deal of lore of what you guys are talking about.

 

[JJJ84]

That timetable is so much better than mine
I just have a picture of my whiteboard.

The lore of the Ombra and Carnefice Family (which is finished and ready to publish) actually has a good deal of lore of what you guys are talking about.

Hey Hopes, again, had some questions, and thought perhaps you could answer them:

1) Will Luna & Amata be sharing screentime in the near future? With them both being Cynthia's students, I'm curious as to how their banter would go and what their relationship with each other is like.


2) Which Family's sigil/symbol is your personal favorite, and consider it the coolest looking? Can be any Family (well, sans DeLucas I guess, let's make it fair lol) whether it's one of the past or current Big Fives or smaller Families.


3) "The Mark" that Jalen mentions in his event that shows one is a "part of the core Kaskar Family."
How does it apply to the women who marry into the Family (e.g. Aunt Layla being Pops' wife), or daughters who may not be interested in Family business (Charvi, who by Jalen's words seems to imply just loves partying and isn't really concerned with her Family's business)?
I'm guessing such Family members are just excluded from the Mark, i.e. core Family and the Family's business matters (like Kay Adams situation in the Corleone Family)?


4) This is a suggestion for addition on Lore section.
Could we get a chronological timeline of all the events that happened?

For instance, if I wanted to know how long it has been since "The Big War" (that changed the Big 5 dynamic) till "The Devil's Shadow" (Carnefice Family's extinction by Ombras) I might find out by looking up at the timeline.


An example of timeline I thought of is this (of how it may look like):

Year -29: Cordia DeLuca is born.

Year -10: Antonio DeLuca is born
Year -9: Isabel DeLuca (maiden surname nee "X") is born.

Year -5: Events of The Big War that changes the Big 5 Dynamic.

Year 0: MC (Hope or whatever name player chooses) is born. Jalen Kaskar is born.
Year 1: Luna DeLuca is born.
Year 2: Gracie DeLuca is born.

Year 6: Events of "Portend" flashback takes place.
Year 7: Events of "My name is Luna" flashback takes place.

Year 16: Isabel suffers a miscarriage of her and Antonio's child.

Year 19: Carnefice Family is driven to its end by Ombra Family's attack ("The Devil's Shadow")

Year 20: MC (Hope or player name) is brought to the DeLuca Family and he is forced upon a Contract.


As you can see, the timeline is based on MC's age (just assumed he was 20 at current time don't know whether that's accurate); I set his birth year as year zero and worked around everyone else's age and events around that (of course, years for some of the events like the Big War or Devil's Shadow I just guessed them).

Something like above I think would be pretty cool (though I have to say Rovenant's timeline looks superior in terms of visuals haha), at first the timeline just has the essentials (characters' birth year etc) and all the events that were shown or told (for e.g. "My name is Luna" "The Devil's Shadow" etc), but with more events shown (with more updates), more and more of the timeline's chronology gets filled up.


5) Speaking of timeline, with Season 1 soon coming to an end, how much time did it take from start of the game (when MC is brought into the Family), till the Season finale? Couple of months? A year?

In addition to that, will we see characters aged up a little bit in season 2 and/or season 3 (particularly MC, Luna, Gracie, and others of same/similar age like Jalen, Dominico, Siobhan, Eiza etc, so that the characters have matured a bit in terms of their looks?


6) One more for the lore; any chance you'd be interested in a territory map for the DeLuca world in terms of visuals? This is an Italian mafia map with territories for different Families etc.

Given there are several Families existing in DeLuca world, I'd be quite interested in seeing the territory areas of each Family, showing the whole balance of power (given it's all fictional map doesn't need to be based on actual land like Italy, just showing how big each Family's piece of pie is in terms of territories?)

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[Rovenant]

That timetable is so much better than mine
I just have a picture of my whiteboard.

The lore of the Ombra and Carnefice Family (which is finished and ready to publish) actually has a good deal of lore of what you guys are talking about.

After replaying again this amazing VN, I wanted to ask you a question. Are we going too far with our theories and searching for every tiny detail? Because sometimes when you really like a game you start to see in a level of details that can surpass the expectation of the devs. Im not asking if we are correct, because we will know in the future updates, but are we overanalyzing the dialogs, or are we in the "range of expectation" of the details you created?

In any case, I really appreciate you always coming here to answer or questions and giving us info about the content.