She is the Scorpion Princess, 2nd daughter of the Ombra family and an important part of their intel gathering operation. MC runs into her in the rescue mission.
- Thread starter N7
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- Dec 24, 2018
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Everything other than the specific scenes or quotes mentioned are of course conjecture. My personal opinion is that he was Rina's ex-fiance (until Rina broke it off and ended up with MC's father, explaining "Serpent"'s whole love & hate relationship with MC, and why he seems to care for Rina so much), but you're right.
It's not really all that relevant (to this discussion). I only stated it to begin the paragraph leading into explanation of the whole 13+ year "new" Serpents period of activity.
Disagree.
I'm not denying that Eiza is new at the assassination business.
But as you've said, Eiza competed in the Frenetico Tournament.
How is she supposed to compete in Frenetico Tournament against Luna when she's not affiliated in a Family? Assuming Eiza is same age as Luna (19), and if she loses her father due to Devil's Shadow event 13+ years ago (as you're implying), then that means Eiza had to have been without official Family from when she was 6.
I could be wrong but I just don't find it likely that mercenaries are allowed to compete in Frenetico Tournament (which I'd assume have strict rules and structures), and feel that the tournament is run with only competitors officially recognized being ones from a Family.
And even if she somehow competed in Frenetico as a mercenary, the fact that she competed in the tournament itself comes to show that she had reasonable training.
And even in the Mafia world, there's no clear cut rule that Don's kids must immediately be put to work when they come of age.
I mean sure, Gracie is talented, but Cordia expressly forbid Gracie from working for the Family till now (putting aside Gracie's personality flaws aside).
There's nothing which denies that Efrem could have wanted something similar for his daughters.
Better yet, Efrem could have still trained her to some extent (good enough to compete for Frenetico), but opted to not get his daughters involved in actual assassination jobs, perhaps feeling he didn't want his daughters to go through the ugly side of the business yet (hence that could very much explain Eiza's inexperience).
Efrem was killed before he could name his successor or properly train Eiza (if she was his successor), but that doesn't necessarily have to mean Eiza lost her father at such a young age.
There's no evidence of that (and solely inexperience itself isn't enough to convince me of that, because inexperience could have been due to number of other factors).
You said in your previous post that you believe she's been free agent, which I interpreted as she's been taking mercenary work, before you added "she was likely raised by old member" in the latest post.
That statement of mine was based on that interpretation.
lol I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that the whole "fallout with Efrem" part (and anything which isn't quote or specific game scene) was conjecture from my end (considering almost everything that's being talked about is.... theory).
(No offense, but) I could say the same to you regarding your "Eiza lost her father when she was young and has been living 13+ years as a free agent" theory.
There's also no evidence to suggest that one of the old members have been taking care of Eiza and Fina.
It's all conjecture from both ends (yours and mine) without evidences.
Here's how I think the events may have played out:
- Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
- Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
- Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Efrem chose to side with Cordia, and Dante decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
- Rina's side loses, and Dante is put in a situation where he decides to submit to Cordia and work for her.
- Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
- Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
- Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.
Perhaps I'm wrong and things will happen as your theory.
But I certainly don't think the story will suffer in any way even if The Devil's Shadow is an event that takes much later in the DeLuca world's chronology in terms of overall timeline (as my theory suggests).
In fact, I think it can work just as well (as putting it in early) if not better.
Now, this back and forth has been fun, but I think this will be my last post regarding this matter (seems like going over each point by point back and forth takes a lot out of me
).Feel free to leave your reply if you wish though.
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Fair enough. It's all conjecture at this point. But let me add a twist to your latest timeline suggestion, which makes more sense to me:Everything other than the specific scenes or quotes mentioned are of course conjecture. My personal opinion is that he was Rina's ex-fiance (until Rina broke it off and ended up with MC's father, explaining "Serpent"'s whole love & hate relationship with MC, and why he seems to care for Rina so much), but you're right.
It's not really all that relevant (to this discussion). I only stated it to begin the paragraph leading into explanation of the whole 13+ year "new" Serpents period of activity.
Disagree.
I'm not denying that Eiza is new at the assassination business.
But as you've said, Eiza competed in the Frenetico Tournament.
How is she supposed to compete in Frenetico Tournament against Luna when she's not affiliated in a Family? Assuming Eiza is same age as Luna (19), and if she loses her father due to Devil's Shadow event 13+ years ago (as you're implying), then that means Eiza had to have been without official Family from when she was 6.
I could be wrong but I just don't find it likely that mercenaries are allowed to compete in Frenetico Tournament (which I'd assume have strict rules and structures), and feel that the tournament is run with only competitors officially recognized being ones from a Family.
And even if she somehow competed in Frenetico as a mercenary, the fact that she competed in the tournament itself comes to show that she had reasonable training.
And even in the Mafia world, there's no clear cut rule that Don's kids must immediately be put to work when they come of age.
I mean sure, Gracie is talented, but Cordia expressly forbid Gracie from working for the Family till now (putting aside Gracie's personality flaws aside).
There's nothing which denies that Efrem could have wanted something similar for his daughters.
Better yet, Efrem could have still trained her to some extent (good enough to compete for Frenetico), but opted to not get his daughters involved in actual assassination jobs, perhaps feeling he didn't want his daughters to go through the ugly side of the business yet (hence that could very much explain Eiza's inexperience).
Efrem was killed before he could name his successor or properly train Eiza (if she was his successor), but that doesn't necessarily have to mean Eiza lost her father at such a young age.
There's no evidence of that (and solely inexperience itself isn't enough to convince me of that, because inexperience could have been due to number of other factors).
You said in your previous post that you believe she's been free agent, which I interpreted as she's been taking mercenary work, before you added "she was likely raised by old member" in the latest post.
That statement of mine was based on that interpretation.
lol I thought it was pretty self-explanatory that the whole "fallout with Efrem" part (and anything which isn't quote or specific game scene) was conjecture from my end (considering almost everything that's being talked about is.... theory).
(No offense, but) I could say the same to you regarding your "Eiza lost her father when she was young and has been living 13+ years as a free agent" theory.
There's also no evidence to suggest that one of the old members have been taking care of Eiza and Fina.
It's all conjecture from both ends (yours and mine) without evidences.
Here's how I think the events may have played out:
- Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
- Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
- Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Efrem chose to side with Cordia, and Dante decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
- Rina's side loses, and Dante is put in a situation where he decides to submit to Cordia and work for her.
- Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
- Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
- Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.
Perhaps I'm wrong and things will happen as your theory.
But I certainly don't think the story will suffer in any way even if The Devil's Shadow is an event that takes much later in the DeLuca world's chronology in terms of overall timeline (as my theory suggests).
In fact, I think it can work just as well (as putting it in early) if not better.
Now, this back and forth has been fun, but I think this will be my last post regarding this matter (seems like going over each point by point back and forth takes a lot out of me
Feel free to leave your reply if you wish though.
- Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
- Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem and gotten to know both Eiza & Fina. Efrem just leaves Eiza and Fina to their own devices, not wanting to pressure his daughters into the whole "heir to Family role" until they feel they're ready.
- Dante had a falling out with Efrem (perhaps Dante chose to side with Cordia, and Efren decided to side with Rina over the whole "other Serpents betraying Cordia" conflict).
- Rina's side loses, and Dante, not wanting to carry the burden of being known for opposing his mentor, chose to hide his face and start over as a nameless soldier under Cordia. Obviously, his new donna Cordia knows his true identity.
- Cordia, recognizing who Dante is, quickly advances him through the ranks, and along with Gottardo, Cynthia, and (unnamed) serpent, becomes infamous for 13+ years.
- Later (perhaps 1 or 2 years before start of the game), the events of The Devil's Shadow occur, and Carnefice Family are wiped out.
- Soon after events of The Devil's Shadow, Fina is captured by Ombras, and Eiza is forced to work for Ombras until she meets MC in the DeLuca mansion.
- Apr 18, 2021
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This is what we know so far. The "year 0" isnt a relevant event, just a random starting point. The events regarding MC are a guess of mine because we dont know MC age, but he said Isabel wasnt much older than him, so if she has 29 in the present, this timeline is based in MC having 25.
So, with this in mind, lets talk about facts first:
- When Luna was with his father (the day that M6 took her) the DeLuca were already an important family (there are a lot of references to this point).
- We know that the original Serpents founded the DeLuca family. So they did it, probably, after the war (or in that time).
At this point we can say (if you are with me and my numbers) that the war happened AT LEAST 19 years before the present time.
My guess is that taking the comments that Giacobbe said when talking with Cordia, refering to her as a young woman. I would guess that the war happened before Antonio birth. That means a minimum of 30 years in the past, when Cordia has between 15 to 19 years. This is my theory, the war wasnt long, the Serpents made that possible and the comments of Giacobbe of how impressive they were made me believe this. So the war was between 30-35 years in the past, and that means it was quick, then the treason of the Serpents, and the grils growing when the new Serpents were in the family.
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So, with this in mind, lets talk about facts first:
- When Luna was with his father (the day that M6 took her) the DeLuca were already an important family (there are a lot of references to this point).
- We know that the original Serpents founded the DeLuca family. So they did it, probably, after the war (or in that time).
At this point we can say (if you are with me and my numbers) that the war happened AT LEAST 19 years before the present time.
My guess is that taking the comments that Giacobbe said when talking with Cordia, refering to her as a young woman. I would guess that the war happened before Antonio birth. That means a minimum of 30 years in the past, when Cordia has between 15 to 19 years. This is my theory, the war wasnt long, the Serpents made that possible and the comments of Giacobbe of how impressive they were made me believe this. So the war was between 30-35 years in the past, and that means it was quick, then the treason of the Serpents, and the grils growing when the new Serpents were in the family.
That timetable is so much better than mine
I just have a picture of my whiteboard.
The lore of the Ombra and Carnefice Family (which is finished and ready to publish) actually has a good deal of lore of what you guys are talking about.
I just have a picture of my whiteboard.
The lore of the Ombra and Carnefice Family (which is finished and ready to publish) actually has a good deal of lore of what you guys are talking about.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Hey Hopes, again, had some questions, and thought perhaps you could answer them:
1) Will Luna & Amata be sharing screentime in the near future? With them both being Cynthia's students, I'm curious as to how their banter would go and what their relationship with each other is like.
2) Which Family's sigil/symbol is your personal favorite, and consider it the coolest looking? Can be any Family (well, sans DeLucas I guess, let's make it fair lol) whether it's one of the past or current Big Fives or smaller Families.
3) "The Mark" that Jalen mentions in his event that shows one is a "part of the core Kaskar Family."
How does it apply to the women who marry into the Family (e.g. Aunt Layla being Pops' wife), or daughters who may not be interested in Family business (Charvi, who by Jalen's words seems to imply just loves partying and isn't really concerned with her Family's business)?
I'm guessing such Family members are just excluded from the Mark, i.e. core Family and the Family's business matters (like Kay Adams situation in the Corleone Family)?
4) This is a suggestion for addition on Lore section.
Could we get a chronological timeline of all the events that happened?
For instance, if I wanted to know how long it has been since "The Big War" (that changed the Big 5 dynamic) till "The Devil's Shadow" (Carnefice Family's extinction by Ombras) I might find out by looking up at the timeline.
An example of timeline I thought of is this (of how it may look like):
Year -29: Cordia DeLuca is born.
Year -10: Antonio DeLuca is born
Year -9: Isabel DeLuca (maiden surname nee "X") is born.
Year -5: Events of The Big War that changes the Big 5 Dynamic.
Year 0: MC (Hope or whatever name player chooses) is born. Jalen Kaskar is born.
Year 1: Luna DeLuca is born.
Year 2: Gracie DeLuca is born.
Year 6: Events of "Portend" flashback takes place.
Year 7: Events of "My name is Luna" flashback takes place.
Year 16: Isabel suffers a miscarriage of her and Antonio's child.
Year 19: Carnefice Family is driven to its end by Ombra Family's attack ("The Devil's Shadow")
Year 20: MC (Hope or player name) is brought to the DeLuca Family and he is forced upon a Contract.
As you can see, the timeline is based on MC's age (just assumed he was 20 at current time don't know whether that's accurate); I set his birth year as year zero and worked around everyone else's age and events around that (of course, years for some of the events like the Big War or Devil's Shadow I just guessed them).
Something like above I think would be pretty cool (though I have to say Rovenant's timeline looks superior in terms of visuals haha), at first the timeline just has the essentials (characters' birth year etc) and all the events that were shown or told (for e.g. "My name is Luna" "The Devil's Shadow" etc), but with more events shown (with more updates), more and more of the timeline's chronology gets filled up.
5) Speaking of timeline, with Season 1 soon coming to an end, how much time did it take from start of the game (when MC is brought into the Family), till the Season finale? Couple of months? A year?
In addition to that, will we see characters aged up a little bit in season 2 and/or season 3 (particularly MC, Luna, Gracie, and others of same/similar age like Jalen, Dominico, Siobhan, Eiza etc, so that the characters have matured a bit in terms of their looks?
6) One more for the lore; any chance you'd be interested in a territory map for the DeLuca world in terms of visuals? This is an Italian mafia map with territories for different Families etc.
Given there are several Families existing in DeLuca world, I'd be quite interested in seeing the territory areas of each Family, showing the whole balance of power (given it's all fictional map doesn't need to be based on actual land like Italy, just showing how big each Family's piece of pie is in terms of territories?)
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- Apr 18, 2021
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After replaying again this amazing VN, I wanted to ask you a question. Are we going too far with our theories and searching for every tiny detail? Because sometimes when you really like a game you start to see in a level of details that can surpass the expectation of the devs. Im not asking if we are correct, because we will know in the future updates, but are we overanalyzing the dialogs, or are we in the "range of expectation" of the details you created?
In any case, I really appreciate you always coming here to answer or questions and giving us info about the content.
- Dec 24, 2018
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From my interaction with Hopes till now, he always gave me the impression that he actually enjoys reading everyone's speculations and theories. In fact, I remember him saying with a chuckle before that some of the theories put out by some folks were so accurate (or so close) that it's almost scary.
So I don't think he minds people' analysis of it all that much (and welcomes it, from what I've seen), so you probably don't have to worry about that.
- Aug 14, 2021
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There are a number of possibilities with my theory about the Mc's father's motives. Probably more than i can think of. Some people want to rule. Cause they fear that if they do not rule someone will rule over them. Some people fight cause they are afraid of what someone else is capable of. So they grow themselves and their "empire" to combat the perceived threat. It could be he fears what the Deluca's could do. Whether the mysterious 6's name was just something thrown together or that is really what they or others call them is still subjective till we are told.
I do not believe Mc's mother truly betrayed Cordia or should i say did not mean to.
Like I typed before as the saying goes, "the apple does not fall far from the tree." I think what Serpant does not like most that reminds him most about mc's father is his "womanizing" ways. I believe he started a relationship with both Cordia and Mc's mother, but it was Mc's mother that got pregnant instead of Cordia. That is why their is a perceived betrayal. I say perceived cause I do not believe Cordia holds anything against her at present.When It comes to Dante/Serpant theory (just to clarify) there are a few i have to cover all bases. the fathering of Eiza's little sister is just one which I already said I think it may actually be just cause of feeling in debted to his former teacher. We just gotta wait see if any of our theories are correct or just wild possibilities that could have been.
- Aug 14, 2021
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Are you trying to tell me half sibling are not called brother or sister? They why do I call my older half brother my brother?
- Oct 5, 2017
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- May 16, 2021
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Kind of late and it's been a while since I played it but I remember there was quite a few evidence to suggest that they were half siblings. It's also mentioned that Antonio takes somewhat after his father when it comes to the mafia stuff but Gracie and Luna's father was apparently a completely average guy who had no ties to any mafia family aside from marrying into this one. Also he's the only one in the family with black hair.
- Apr 18, 2021
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I'm not sure about that. As I said, the same girl that told Isabel she wants truly family starts a fight with her because she took her brother? It's like Harry Potter with all the pure/impure blood topic.
So far there wasn't a single dialog that made think that there was another man in Cordia life or a step-brother relationship between Antonio and the girls.
I'm sometimes make theories with little amount of evidence but I'll not sit without any. So I'll go, at least for now, with what I said and if in the next update we find more evidence to this topic let's see what can we build around that.
- Apr 18, 2021
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I just used a random page to build a timeline and then took a screenshot.
- Apr 18, 2021
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If you remember any evidence tell me or where to replay the dialogues.
Just because his hair is black it isn't enough for me, but I think something is missing and hope we will see it in the next update. Maybe there was another man, or maybe Lucan had more qualities than we know? Let's wait and hope.
- Nov 20, 2017
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Pee Wee there is none of your fabulous images with Floaty in it. How dare you do this to me?
- Oct 5, 2017
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Half-brother and step-brother are not at all the same thing.
- Dec 27, 2018
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I think he is one of those hermit celebritiesPee Wee there is none of your fabulous images with Floaty in it. How dare you do this to me?
I didn't find any images from him
- Nov 20, 2017
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Now mister you don't have an excuse anymore.I think he is one of those hermit celebrities
