- May 16, 2021
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Nah he couldn't be he's different from MC's father's attributes and he hates MC's father
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- Apr 18, 2021
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I'm with you, Wilfred was presented as a puppet master and even Cordia aknowledged that. So we are kind of expecting him doing something like that. But what if that's his point? He looks like someone trying to test you some times, and the one encouraging you to participate in missions.The thing is with the whole "Whodunit" in terms of the mole, majority of fans have speculated it's either Wilfred or Antonio.
Personally though, I'm hoping it's someone else.
Both Wilfred and Antonio just seem to be too obvious choices (no offense to pick predicting them, but they are for me), and my personal hope is that it's someone unexpected by most people.
With Dante being "Serpent" hmmm....... the shoe does seem to fit well for him, so honestly? Wouldn't be surprised even if that ended up being the case.
Though, there's one thing that nags on my mind:
If "Serpent" = Dante,
- Why did Dante not end up with the Carnefice Family, the Family which his mentor is the Don and end up with the DeLucas?
A lot to ponder I guess.
If all of this were only to develop your skills it's kind of strange, but if he is doing this for Cordia and the girls that's another matter. He wanted Gracie to participate in the family and that already happened, he wanted Cordia to change her self pity and she already started to giggle and talking more, he wanted to speed things up with M6 and Luna and started something to made you and her talk about that (he knows you will help).
So if he sees you not only as a potential candidate to high ranks (as Guildart and Gracie said) but as a mean to another end to change them. Them it makes sense to force all this because in his hands there was never any damage.
Something tells me that there are not a lot of time for some reason and he is trying to prepare you all for a the war that's coming, while Cordia believes she can avoid it.
About Serpent - Dante remember that Efren took him but died in some point. A pupil of Efren or Wilfred probably will have Capo-Serpent-Gent talent. So after Efren died maybe he went the the friend of her father.
Another thing in my mind is: Could be the father/mother of MC behind M6. Such a big organization needs to have a Serpent rank leader.and an enemy with Cordia standards. And I remember the female voice that talked behind the speaker (this is highly circumstancial).
Or was Lucan being held by M6 the hole time as Luna? It looked that way too. But he was no one, a delivery guy. But Angelo said (when walking with Antonio in the attack to the wearhouse where Straffan is) he inherited the violence of his father. Unless I'm missing something Lucan is his father. Or are they talking about the father of Cordia?
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Yeah, so? I mean I hate myself and I certainly haven't abandoned my child nor signed them up for the mob. That really doesn't prove anything,
- Apr 18, 2021
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It's really circumstancial. MC father has black hair, but Serpent doesn't. You could think he changed his hair colour but why Eiza daughter is that important for him? Why he abandoned you and everyone saying he doesn't care about anyone and is ambitious and without honor, but Serpent is trying to protect you, it doesn't make sense.
And remember the thing where he has other children's and he is in touch with them but not with you. And his eyes are different colour too.
If you see all the info it doesn't look like he is MC father. I thought the Mr Moustache could be, for example, not because appearance but personality.
But so far we don't have enough to say about his father.
The way I understood the lore, "The Big War" was more than two decades ago before any of Cordia's children were born. It was the war that established the DeLuca family as one of the new Big 5 families. That to me means it was the OG Serpents that was involved in that war. It would then be entirely possible to have the Carnefice family wiped out, and Dante to take secret refuge in the Deluca family, hiding his past as a Carnefice (because that would bring the DeLuca into the Ombra-Carnefice war), and take on a new identity and establish himself as one of the new generation Serpents.That would depend on how long the current second iteration of Serpents have been active for, and when the events of "The Devil's Shadow" (extinction of Carnefice Family by Ombras) took place.
Cause iirc, while it's not specifically stated how long the current Serpents have been active for, it's been sort of implied (by other characters, like Giocabbe, Luca, Gracie etc) that they have been for quite a while, enough to make their fame be a legendary status (not sure they were actively during "The Big War" or not, but even so definitely a long time).
So "Serpent" joining DeLuca after Carnefice Family's demise I think it doesn't really fit well, because he only became "Serpent" after joining DeLucas (I mean can't be one of the Serpents when he's still affiliated with Carnefice Family, no matter how much friendly terms the Family is with DeLucas).
And also, such scenario would mean Carnefice Family met its demise a long time ago before "Serpent" even started to get known as one of 4 Serpents. That's a really long time for Eiza to be under the chains of Ombra Family (and also long time for her sister Fina to be captive).
The 2 girls going through hardships for long period like that, if that was the case, I must admit it would make me sad.
My theory is, if Dante = "Serpent", then when he was young he first began as a student under Efrem learning the mastery of stealth and assassination.
Wilfred found out about Dante, and being in feud with Efrem, tried to lure Efrem's student away from him but failed.
Dante studied under Efrem, and became a master in assassination arts but eventually had a falling out with Efrem and sometime later, ended up with DeLucas (for unknown reasons which will be revealed later).
He became infamous as "Serpent" of the new 4 Serpents.
But years later, him, Cordia and Wilfred were too late too stop the Family's demise with Efrem perishing in "The Devil's Shadow."
Eventually he is able to pay his debt to his former mentor by being the commander in charge of Ombra mission, and his able to save his mentor's daughter with MC's help.
Things may or may not play out like above, but that's my theory (with assumption that it hasn't been that long time since events of The Devil's Shadow till MC's Ombra mission).
Also, I don't think it's been established that Eiza was under the chains of Ombra ever since the demise of the Carnefice family. I think it would make more sense for for Eiza to have been a "free agent" until recent times, when the Ombra family kidnapped Fina in order to force Eiza to take on the job.
- Apr 18, 2021
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I think something like that happened related to the Eiza and her sister situation.
About the war it's hard to tell. We know the age that Cordia has now and we saw pictures of her while being younger in the war but it's hard to tell.
But if I'm correct the DeLuca were founded by the four serpents (the originally). And at that time Cordia was disciple of Wilfred (and they fought together in the war), so when MC was young Wilfred and his people (The Enigmas I presume) were scouting you, but that probably happened after the war ended. So that means around 20 years in the past at least.
Just took another quick look in the game. Antonio is 30 years old while Luna and Gracie are only 19 & 18 respectively.
I'm beginning to think that I was wrong about all of the Deluca children were born after the Big War. Maybe that happened between Antonio's and Luna's birth. But other than that, I think the rest of my theory is still valid.
- Apr 18, 2021
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If i have to guess i would think that the war happened before Cordia and Lucan were togheter. M6 took Luna when she was 6 years old, and in the "present" she has 19. We dont know MC age, but he said that Isabel isnt much older than him (and she has 29), and MC father left him when he was 10 y/o.
If the Serpents betrayed Cordia she probably fight against them, and if Wilfred knew where MC was (scouting him since he was a child) then maybe that treason happened 17 years in the past? (JJJ84 look this numbers if you can, you probably have already a theory); because its hard to think that Rina betrayed Cordia and at the same time living with you (when your father left she started her unusual "training" with you).
- Aug 14, 2021
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Your theories/ideas are sound and not to far off from what I theorize.
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- Aug 14, 2021
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How could Lucan be Antonio's father? If Antonio inherited the violence of his father Lucan can't be his father. Lucan not only has been shown as non aggressive, but also was the "light" of Cordia. He was the reason she smiled. You think a man with a violent attitude could make Cordia smile? I'm not so sure about that. Besides in The Luna Flashback of being captured his attitude in that certain part showed him to not be a violent man in any way. Put Antonio in that situation it would have gone badly. Also wasn't it said he was a peaceful man?
- Dec 24, 2018
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The thing is though, there are some inconsistencies which I feel are apparent if that is the case.
Let's take The Big War taking place roughly 2 decades or even longer than 2 decades ago (and say back then it was the OG Serpents).
The current "generation" (also I do think this is sort of wrong word to use, especially if "Serpent" turns out to be Rina's fiance [then that would make him similar age to Cordia, Rina, and likely including MC's biological father]) of Serpents period of activity will also need to be established.
One might assume, that they've been active for at the very minimum like 5 to 10 years (the whole "legendary" status of infamy does not get established over 1 or 2 years. That just feels way too fast in my eyes), but I think the game actually implicitly tells us roughly how long these "new" Serpents have been active for; 13+ years.
How did I come to that?
- Firstly, Luna and Gracie grew up idolizing the 4 Serpents. They spent most of their child watching them in action, and both of them wish to grow up to be one of the Serpents.
- Gottardo refers to Luna as "Little Lulu" and both Luna & Gracie refer to Gottardo as "Uncle Gottardo." Now, I know people can be referred to as "uncle" without being blood related and all (as a mere sign of respect), but even so in this world's case given the established term of affection "Little Lulu" that Gottardo used to call Luna (that she used to love, heh), I'd say Gottardo was one of the 4 Serpents at the time Luna was a little kid.
At the very latest,, him and the 4 Serpents would have been the factor in the family right after the flashback events of "My name is Luna", but I'd imagine it's very possible Gottardo was active as a Serpent for the DeLucas even much before that.
So 13+ years (of new Serpents being active) is a long time for Eiza to be be in the "free agent" case (if we assume The Devil's Shadow event took place before Dante becomes "Serpent"), and tbh, I hope that's not the case (it's a long time to be struggling and putting both Carnefice girls through the wringer).
And besides, that seems not to be the case with what Cordia says to her in that event:
"I did not expect the daughter of Efrem himself would end up doing mercenary work. In fact, that would go against your family honor. Which leads me to believe you are not doing this voluntarily."
As Cordia said, with Eiza being a stickler for Family code and Family honor, I find it most plausible for the story that either with the events of The Devil's Shadow or soon after that event of Carnefice Family's demise, Fina was held captive and Eiza was forced to do their dirty work.
She just doesn't seem to be the type of character who strays from her morals unless she's forced to.
Hence with everything combined, I feel "Serpent" (assuming he is Dante) having a falling out Efrem (before he became "Serpent" for DeLucas, and also before events of The Devil's Shadow), and out of regret of not being able to save his mentor, saves his daughters through MC flows pretty nicely in terms of the storyline.
But when making predictions for games (not just this game, but any game), there have been times I have been wrong before, so I guess we'll find out sooner or later.
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- Dec 27, 2018
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You still do NOT worth it! JJJ84
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- Dec 1, 2019
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Finally I had a reaction leftYou still do NOT worth it! JJJ84
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- Apr 18, 2021
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Wait right there. If i remember correctly MC father wasnt a Serpent. He wasnt in the photo, and when Gildart talked about your family he says that your mother was one of them. Ok, that doesnt mean he cant be a high skilled (like a Serpent). And Im with you in that possibility because the man that was in the second room where Luna was could be him (really circumstantial). But if MC father wasnt a Serpent then your mother, who betrayed Cordia (and the DeLuca, because the four first Serpents were who founded the family) then do you think they are together, or your Mother is one another faction, and your father in M6?
But following your theory about MC Father, tell me what you think about this: If your father is doing all of this because of his ambition, what do you think is his final end? why doing all the torture/training? I think that, if we are correct so far, the answer resides in what happened in the war. If someone today wanted to take Cordia and the DeLuca family, then it will need "super soldiers" just to take Wilfred, Cordia, 4 Serpents, and probably others like the Gents; so it makes sense that anyone behind M6 was going for that.
Another thing we still dont know is why "M6" is the name? In the story that Luna told us they never said why. If we believe that was not a silly name (like Mr Moustache who didnt had a moustache) then we can think that there are 6 enemies leading M6. But why your mother betrayed Cordia, and why she started doing that thing to MC, those questions bother me so far because i feel like whe have 3 factions and i only can see 2 right now.
I believe that this VN uses the genetic to explain some things. Some talk about if you have something because your mother was a Serpent, or Antonio having the rage of his father, or Gracie being like Cordia. Going with this theory means that your are not like your father because even when you were a child you used your weakness to your adventage and not your father or mother were like that. I think you can be more like Wilfred, but with more charisma, that means you can manipulate people more than being tactical.
I think that MC mother was part of Enigma or something like that. She did some things to develop your skills (one of the being the poison situation) and Wilfred knows that so when forcing your talents to show he did it with that in his mind. But even if Wilfred wasnt part of that and someone were really trying to kill you, then im with you, MC mother was trying to prepare you to what will happen when you grow up, because the reason why your father left implied to her that you will be in danger in the future.
About the Dante/Serpent theory im not with you in that one hahaha. I think that Serpent could be Dante, but if that was the case he already showed that he protects you a lot of times even when its rare and make others talk. So in that mission he could went to rescue the girl himself (he cant be sure you will be able to save her) if she was his child. So im with JJJ84 and I think more of a debt with his Mentor but being in the DeLuca family takes priority.
- Apr 18, 2021
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I think the same, but no one talked about other man in her life. That means that so far there are 0 evidence of Antonio being from another father. Even Gracie called him brother, the same girl that said to Isabel that she is the "real" family and Isabel isnt. So, Ill stick (for the moment) with Lucan being father of them three. Its really hard to tell, because Gracie never talked about Lucan either, but Cordia doesnt look like a woman who were able to be with more than one husband (at least thats what a feel).
Well, if Serpent is Dante (which I suspect is the case), there's really no need for him to have an affair with Efrem's wife to make Fina important to him. After all, Fina was his mentor's youngest daughter.
And Cordia doesn't strike me as donna who would harbor someone that made a cuckoo out of his mentor.
Ok, let's unpack this...
There's isn't enough evidence to support the assumption that Serpent was Rina's fiance. My personal opinion is that he's not. But I don't think it's too relevant either way.
Totally agree with this part.
Couldn't disagree more. While the Carnefice-Ombra war could very well have happened 13+ years ago, Eiza isn't old enough to have been a assassin until recent years. As Cordia noted, someone from the Carnefice Family should not fail to kill someone like the MC. That indicates that Eiza is still relatively new at the assassination business.
There are other ex-Carnefice members doing mercenary work for random families. I suspect one of those ex-members were fairly senior in rank and raised Eiza and Fina. Eiza is likely only around the same age as Luna & Gracie, since she competed directly with Luna in the Frenetico Tournaments before.
There is no disputing that. In fact Eiza freely admits in the same conversation that she's doing this due to the Fina hostage situation.
I don't think you've presented any evidence that Dante had a fallout with Efrem at all. I think the following sequence of event is more likely:
- Dante chose to apprentice under Efrem Carnefice instead of Wilfred.
- Dante learned his marksman skills under Efrem.
- Ombra wiped out the Carnefice family.
- Dante took secret refuge under the DeLuca family.
- Dante hid his real name and his face and became "nameless".
- As the nameless Dante built up a legendary reputation and became a new generation serpent, People started just calling him Serpent.
- Dec 1, 2019
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Well, that's what I tried to tell Gracie. However, she kept talking about "intent" all the time ... She wasn't wrong ...
- Dec 27, 2018
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I don't know why I did it. But I think they could be honored due the importance of these two for the story.
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