- Jul 13, 2018
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That's something I said but Hopes never answered.
- Oct 7, 2022
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4 main LI is enough for me too.
It doesn't appeal to me that all existing main LI"s are members of the same family, although each has a different character build.
I think it's still not too late to add another main LI.
Siobhan is an excellent main LI material in my opinion.
Considering that every family has different cultural traditions, I'd be excited to have him as the main LI. It's like another mysterious treasure to be discovered.
Eliza is an excellent side LI.
It looks like we may have a harem of side LI"s.
Frankly, I don't care, it doesn't matter to me whether it happens or not.
Isabella's case is special I don't see it as a main LI.
A route specially created for Netori fans.
I'm not sure I want to be romantically involved with a married woman who says she still loves her husband.
Frankly I wonder how the developer will finish this Netori route.
Maybe Antoni will be killed?
It's not my intention to offend anyone, please Netori fans, don't get me wrong.
Mc will probably never be a high level Capo in the game in terms of physical technique and skill.
However, thanks to his superior leadership skills, he will achieve great things with a small group at his disposal.
Like Wilfred, I will watch with excitement as Mc turns into a true leader.
- Jan 1, 2019
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I know I don't mind the number of LIs either, as long as those characters are well-written and have interesting arcs, whatever the number, I don't care, and so far they're all interesting, although I wonder what will happen with Cordia, if something happens at all. Isabel too, cause yeah that's a fucked up situation playing with fire like that, and Luna too cause of how broken she is.
Also, like you pointed out, those potential secondary LIs, there's also that woman we see on our first contract...
But the one I'm most interested with is Gracie, mainly because of something Uncle said to his lieutenants (last mission of 'Team Graceful, Grumpy, Ninja and Canoley'), about how the MC and Gracie complete each other with both their strengths and weaknesses, and how he, essentially, can't wait to see how they will fare in the future.
Wonder if he sees them taking over the family at some point.
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- Jan 20, 2020
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I hope we won't have to choose between the girls at the end of season 3.
- Jan 1, 2019
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No harem tags, and a 'cheating' one (probably for Isabel, or maybe more).
I guess things could turn out ugly for the MC if you play as a manwhore (like I did).
- Jan 20, 2020
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Always have to choose manwhore. I've got plenty of love to give
- Dec 24, 2018
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I hope you don't take any offense by this risky0, but I'm actually opposed to having other Family female characters to be main LIs.Not sure about that.
What's to say one, or more, of them couldn't be future LI?
What's to say that more new women won't be introduced as the game progresses? I'm pretty sure there will be more characters added.
I don't see any reason why new LIs - main or side - couldn't be introduced.
The story allows for it.
I'm absolutely happy with the 4 that we have & do share your doubt, but the door has not been closed for more to come.
I thought he was talking about Antonio & MC potentially sharing a Father?
Incest doesn't really come into that discussion, unless someone wants MC to fuck Antonio.
He can be half-brother with Antonio and there still be no incest.
It's the "blood related" part that matters for this & Hopes said he "can't say".
Which does absolutely nothing to remove it as a possibility.
The fact that Hopes "can't say", because it's a "spoiler", might actually suggest that it has some merit.
Wouldn't be much of a spoiler if the answer was "No, they're not related".
Why?
My reasons;
1) Additional strain in freeroam
DeLuca has many strengths, but one of them I definitely think is its simplicity in free-roam. Just a simple freeroam where MC goes around inside the DeLuca mansion, with ease of navigation.
But what happens when we place other girls as main LIs?
These girls will need to be included in the freeroam, and the DeLuca mansion itself wouldn't be enough.
And I've seen far too many games where freeroam forces players to click click click from on side of town to another, which more likely than not ends up becoming a tiresome, even chore like experience.
This game, I'd actually like Hopes to keep to the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) principle and keep things relatively the same (sure, 2~3 rooms might get added in the DeLuca mansion for freeroam when Cordia's path unlocks [Hopes confirmed it before], but otherwise, I'd imagine freeroam would likely stay with same ease, as long as number of main LIs stay the way it is, 4 with the DeLucas.
2) New Main LI's Lewd/freeroam event
What differentiates between a main LI & side LI primarily is the fact that the mains have their own dedicated lewd/freeroam events category (shown in the journal. Cordia is an exception because her route won't be unlocked until season 2).
Side LIs, their events are interspersed within main story and main events (like Eiza in main events, or Siobhan in main story and main events).
Either changing a current side LI into main LI or bringing a new LI altogether would mean there would need to be dedicated lewd events arc would need to be created for the new main LI.
And from what I can tell from Hopes (after asking him about relationship portraits etc in the past), I didn't get any impression at all that he wanted to expand the main LIs roster.
If a side character proved to be popular (Like Onorina, Wilfred's Division girl. She's gotten massively popullar)?
He said he'll try to include them more in the storyline and give them more screentime.
But that doesn't mean he'll turn them into main LIs.
Just makes them be side LIs with bigger presence (and possibly more funsie time with MC
), and main LIs will always be still getting lion's share of screentime even though from time to time, these side LIs (like Eiza. Siobhan) will get their time to shine.3) Rotation & players' response
This I guess sort of relates to the point 2.
By having dedicated separate lewd/freeroam events with a new LI, it would just put further strain on the rotation.
As people who have been following the game long enough will know, content release has always been on rotation, which was initially the following;
Main story/Main event → lewd/freeroam → Main story/Main event → lewd/freeroam →........(and so on)
With v0.07, contract gameplay got added, and these contracts being included had some people complaining that content release for the main girls will now be slower (there's the rotation above, and rotation within the girls as well, according to who had their events content last time, and whose turn is it. So I guess......rotation, within rotation?).
Personally, I have no issues with the contracts at all (in fact, I like them), but I have seen posts with that type of reaction before.
Adding new main LI in would just make the whole rotation slow down even further and we'll have more people saying lines like "When is my favorite Luna gonna have her lewd/freeroam events content? It's been ages......"
And even now we're still seeing some of those posts (yes, some of it's due to Hopes' RL getting in the way, but part of the reason is also due to roations).
With Side LIs, there's less of that problem because they're used more sparingly (compared to the mains, whom are expected to carry the storyline a lot of the times), so the side LIs content can be more sprinkled within main story & main events.
and last reason;
4) The planning (?)
I think my guess is, given season 1 Hopes from the beginning had always planned to have the 4 mains LIs (Luna, Gracie, Isabel, Cordia).
The 4 of them having relationship portraits and operating with the Red Hearts (Love Points) system is a clear indicator of them.
The rest of the female characters, I don't think he planned to have them as main LIs at all.
Just side LIs.
But I don't necessarily find that to be a bad thing. Even as a side LI, there may be some who get a lot more screentime than other side LIs (obvious examples will probably be Eiza and Siobhan, and even the nun Amita and Amata will get expanded roles as side LIs due to their popularity [Hopes confirmed in my latest series of Qs])
I think what he is currently doing works really well.
So I think it's just unlikely he'll try to add something more when the currently dynamic/system of main LIs & side LIs roster is working well for him.
And tbh, assuming that the current way of LIs mains/side roster category is the way he always planned his game, I'm not keen on him being pressured to change that and would rather he stick to his plans).
Though I guess I do understand the sentiment of it all.
For example, in Chasing Sunsets, Tara, a side character, I think just may be the best character of that game. But despite having sex with the MC, and having incredible depth to her character, she's not a main LI. Heck she's not even a side LI from what I can tell at this point.
So yeah, wish the dev had planned her to be a main LI to begin with, but in the end I understand the dev's decision not to (despite my disappointment).
As for the whole MC and Antonio sharing same father.
Tbh, I dunno. While it seemed like that may have been hinted in few scenes, but I'm not sure I firmly believe in that theory either (and Hopes saying Spoilers, I don't necessarily think he might be implying it to be true. I just think he said that to be careful not to slip anything, because the whole question itself [i.e. who MC really is] is basically spoiler zone, regardless of whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no').
But having said that, if we hypothetically assume for a moment that MC & Antonio share their Father, wouldn't Cordia literally be MC's........stepmom (given Cordia is Antonio's mother, which season 1 didn't give us any reason to doubt)?
And from what I remember, the zone (this site) classifies incest as sexual relations between not just blood relatives, but people who are related in other ways, like stepmother, stepsister as well, and gives the incest tag to such relationship as well (though I guess someone else can check for me if that's true, or whether I have it wrong).
If what I remember is correct, given Cordia is one of main LIs, it's really gonna muddy the waters as to the "incest" topic, and I'm not so sure that is the road Hopes would want to take it (not that I mind incest games, but given he's said from Day 1 that the game will have no incest, the whole debacle would be endless with some claiming it is, whereas others claiming it isn't).
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- Oct 7, 2022
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I understand what you mean, but I disagree.I hope you don't take any offense by this risky0, but I'm actually opposed to having other Family female characters to be main LIs.
Why?
My reasons;
1) Additional strain in freeroam
DeLuca has many strengths, but one of them I definitely think is its simplicity in free-roam. Just a simple freeroam where MC goes around inside the DeLuca mansion, with ease of navigation.
But what happens when we place other girls as main LIs?
These girls will need to be included in the freeroam, and the DeLuca mansion itself wouldn't be enough.
And I've seen far too many games where freeroam forces players to click click click from on side of town to another, which more likely than not ends up becoming a tiresome, even chore like experience.
This game, I'd actually like Hopes to keep to the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) principle and keep things relatively the same (sure, 2~3 rooms might get added in the DeLuca mansion for freeroam when Cordia's path unlocks [Hopes confirmed it before], but otherwise, I'd imagine freeroam would likely stay with same ease, as long as number of main LIs stay the way it is, 4 with the DeLucas.
2) New Main LI's Lewd/freeroam event
What differentiates between a main LI & side LI primarily is the fact that the mains have their own dedicated lewd/freeroam events category (shown in the journal. Cordia is an exception because her route won't be unlocked until season 2).
Side LIs, their events are interspersed within main story and main events (like Eiza in main events, or Siobhan in main story and main events).
Either changing a current side LI into main LI or bringing a new LI altogether would mean there would need to be dedicated lewd events arc would need to be created for the new main LI.
And from what I can tell from Hopes (after asking him about relationship portraits etc in the past), I didn't get any impression at all that he wanted to expand the main LIs roster.
If a side character proved to be popular (Like Onorina, Wilfred's Division girl. She's gotten massively popullar)?
He said he'll try to include them more in the storyline and give them more screentime.
But that doesn't mean he'll turn them into main LIs.
Just makes them be side LIs with bigger presence (and possibly more funsie time with MC
3) Rotation & players' response
This I guess sort of relates to the point 2.
By having dedicated separate lewd/freeroam events with a new LI, it would just put further strain on the rotation.
As people who have been following the game long enough will know, content release has always been on rotation, which was initially the following;
Main story/Main event → lewd/freeroam → Main story/Main event → lewd/freeroam →........(and so on)
With v0.07, contract gameplay got added, and these contracts being included had some people complaining that content release for the main girls will now be slower (there's the rotation above, and rotation within the girls as well, according to who had their events content last time, and whose turn is it. So I guess......rotation, within rotation?).
Personally, I have no issues with the contracts at all (in fact, I like them), but I have seen posts with that type of reaction before.
Adding new main LI in would just make the whole rotation slow down even further and we'll have more people saying lines like "When is my favorite Luna gonna have her lewd/freeroam events content? It's been ages......"
And even now we're still seeing some of those posts (yes, some of it's due to Hopes' RL getting in the way, but part of the reason is also due to roations).
With Side LIs, there's less of that problem because they're used more sparingly (compared to the mains, whom are expected to carry the storyline a lot of the times), so the side LIs content can be more sprinkled within main story & main events.
and last reason;
4) The planning (?)
I think my guess is, given season 1 Hopes from the beginning had always planned to have the 4 mains LIs (Luna, Gracie, Isabel, Cordia).
The 4 of them having relationship portraits and operating with the Red Hearts (Love Points) system is a clear indicator of them.
The rest of the female characters, I don't think he planned to have them as main LIs at all.
Just side LIs.
But I don't necessarily find that to be a bad thing. Even as a side LI, there may be some who get a lot more screentime than other side LIs (obvious examples will probably be Eiza and Siobhan, and even the nun Amita and Amata will get expanded roles as side LIs due to their popularity [Hopes confirmed in my latest series of Qs])
I think what he is currently doing works really well.
So I think it's just unlikely he'll try to add something more when the currently dynamic/system of main LIs & side LIs roster is working well for him.
And tbh, assuming that the current way of LIs mains/side roster category is the way he always planned his game, I'm not keen on him being pressured to change that and would rather he stick to his plans).
Though I guess I do understand the sentiment of it all.
For example, in Chasing Sunsets, Tara, a side character, I think just may be the best character of that game. But despite having sex with the MC, and having incredible depth to her character, she's not a main LI. Heck she's not even a side LI from what I can tell at this point.
So yeah, wish the dev had planned her to be a main LI to begin with, but in the end I understand the dev's decision not to (despite my disappointment).
As for the whole MC and Antonio sharing same father.
Tbh, I dunno. While it seemed like that may have been hinted in few scenes, but I'm not sure I firmly believe in that theory either (and Hopes saying Spoilers, I don't necessarily think he might be implying it to be true. I just think he said that to be careful not to slip anything, because the whole question itself [i.e. who MC really is] is basically spoiler zone, regardless of whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no').
But having said that, if we hypothetically assume for a moment that MC & Antonio share their Father, wouldn't Cordia literally be MC's........stepmom (given Cordia is Antonio's mother, which season 1 didn't give us any reason to doubt)?
And from what I remember, the zone (this site) classifies incest as sexual relations between not just blood relatives, but people who are related in other ways, like stepmother, stepsister as well, and gives the incest tag to such relationship as well (though I guess someone else can check for me if that's true, or whether I have it wrong).
If what I remember is correct, given Cordia is one of main LIs, it's really gonna muddy the waters as to the "incest" topic, and I'm not so sure that is the road Hopes would want to take it (not that I mind incest games, but given he's said from Day 1 that the game will have no incest, the whole debacle would be endless with some claiming it is, whereas others claiming it isn't).
Isn't it a pressure to want the current structure of the game not to change?
You say that the game was planned in this structure in the form of 4 main LI, we cannot know this.
Even if what you said about the developer's only 4 main LI plans when creating the game is true, I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion, but over the years ideas and plans change.
And this game has been developing since 2018 as far as I can see it's a very long time.
My opinion has not changed about adding at least one main LI from a different family.
If the developer activates the game's VN Mode, we will not be affected by free roaming as a player.
I hope you don't misunderstand me.
Mc father/Cordia = They were not married.
Would this be incest?
- Jan 1, 2019
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I know that I don't see anything non-blood related as incest, if Cordia isn't MCs natural mom, it shouldn't matter.
Not sure about Antonio being MCs stepbro, but Cordia may have had a trist with MCs dad, for sure.
But if Cordia still is a LI, I don't see any 'incest' there.
- Jan 1, 2019
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If I remember, there are some choices you can make that won't push anything further.
But otherwise, you can't, that's pretty much the reason of their paths.
- Oct 7, 2022
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The developer says there is no incest in the game.
Another way of saying cordia and mc's father never married.
According to the law, if there is no marriage, it is not considered incest.
In this case, it is okay for Antonio and Mc to be step brothers.
- Dec 24, 2018
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I never said the current structure of 4 main LIs is planned by Hopes is a fact.
I only said that there's factors which strongly seem to imply this (such as the portraits and relationship points such as red hearts).
And yes, as you said ideas and plans can change (and Hopes did change some aspects of the game).
But from what I've seen Hopes' responses to my questions till now.
It seemed like he was trimming the unnecessary fat (for the lack of better term for less useful parts of the game) off, and focusing on what is working.
Dev activating game's VN mode? Uhhhh.... why?
The lion's share of players who play the game do it through "Full Experience" mode (there's also "Just Story" mode, and "VN mode" Iirc, other that Full Exp, only Just Story is available), which gives players control with the limited free-roaming inside the DeLuca mansion.
I get that you like Siobhan very much (and you want either her or another character from another Family to be a main LI), but the game has always had Main LIs be available in free-roam.
To throw that away and force players (i.e. Full Experience players especially. But iirc [though not 100% sure, since I'm a Full Exp player primarily], even just Story has Freeroam in it? Only ones exempt from freeroam would be VN mode players, the mode which hasn't even been implemented yet) to go through VN mode just for a new LI's sake would really stick out like a sore thumb (not to mention the whole inconsistency between the 4 main LIs till now and the "new" main LI).
I know you'll disagree (and that's fine, not like I'm trying to persuade you or anything), but for me? I'd rather they just keep Siobhan as a side LI but with more presence, than push her (or other new female character) in as a main LI, when it clearly doesn't seem to fit naturally with how the game seemed to have been designed as.
And also, let's say I humor the scenario (of activating VN mode for the "new" LI) despite me thinking it's a bad idea.
There's still the issues of there needing to be a heap of dedicated lewd/freeroam events just for that new character alone, not to mention the rotation issue (basically points 2 & 3 that I mentioned).
Now don't misunderstand, I like Siobhan too (actually I like her a lot), and same goes for other characters of this game (especially female characters, haha).
But I just don't think it is worth it to turn her (or any additional "new" female character) into a main LI, given all the hassles as well as hoops and hurdles Hopes would need to jump over.
And current LI system Hopes has, works with no issues (so there's no need for an overhaul, like with Wilfred's Contracts).
As the old saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
That doesn't matter (that they were not married).
It's implied in some scenes (though I'm not so sure whether it's true or not) that MC's father = Antonio's father.
That would make Cordia MC's stepmom (given she's Antonio's biological mother).
And if that actually turns out to be true in the future, then according to this site (and how tags are attached to games regarding the Zone's definitions), the game will likely end up getting tagged with incest (and yes, definition of incest varies depending on the person. Some would consider such relationship incest, whereas others would not. But the Zone's tags definition I remember such relationship being categorized as incest).
Not that I mind whether it's categorized that way or not, but I just don't think Hopes would risk it all by putting the story in such situation (and the debacle that would result with that).
- Dec 24, 2018
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And to further emphasize the point, here is this site's definition of Incest:
https://f95zone.to/threads/tags-rules-and-list-updated-2023-02-03.10394/
So doesn't matter whether legally it's considered Incest or not, in terms of the zone, it would be tagged as one (if MC and Antonio end up being half brothers).
- Cordia and MC Family relatives?
Check. If it turns out true that MC and Antonio are half brothers and share the same father (with Cordia being Antonio's mom), which results Cordia being MC's step-mom.
- Cordia and MC not related by blood?
Check. Cordia has said to MC (when she caught him sneaking into her office) that Rina, her best friend is MC's biological mom (so no blood relations between MC & Cordia).
https://f95zone.to/threads/tags-rules-and-list-updated-2023-02-03.10394/
So doesn't matter whether legally it's considered Incest or not, in terms of the zone, it would be tagged as one (if MC and Antonio end up being half brothers).
- Cordia and MC Family relatives?
Check. If it turns out true that MC and Antonio are half brothers and share the same father (with Cordia being Antonio's mom), which results Cordia being MC's step-mom.
- Cordia and MC not related by blood?
Check. Cordia has said to MC (when she caught him sneaking into her office) that Rina, her best friend is MC's biological mom (so no blood relations between MC & Cordia).
- Dec 1, 2019
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I always play celibate. Sometimes, when I am kinky, I will be a trustworthy husband, but only with my married wife, in missionary, when the lights are out.Wait, you mean there's a different way to play?
IMO it is more complicated than that - not claiming that I would know how F95 decides it. I do think that the intent (insert image of a proud Gracie here) of the rule is that a person you grew up with as a family is "off limits" for society and thus this kink. With some woman with whom you have some three step connection (mother of the son of my father) and who you only know for a couple of days, the situation should be different. There is no blood relation and no "family life" relation here, and for me it wouldn't satisfy the "Big I" kink. Others might disagree. But I don't think there would be any use in applying this tag to this game (given all our assumptions are correct), arguably nobody who is looking for the kink would be satisfied, arguably nobody who wants to avoid it would be offended to find this game.
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- Oct 7, 2022
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If I were a developer I wouldn't care about the tags here.
So the real question here is: How will patreon handle this situation?
- Nov 20, 2017
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We doubt that Hope has the zone's definition of incest in mind and we believe it is more the Patreon's defintion of incest...And to further emphasize the point, here is this site's definition of Incest:
https://f95zone.to/threads/tags-rules-and-list-updated-2023-02-03.10394/
How they want? At least that is what we believe.
You must be registered to see the links
So, no clear definition given other than their Trust and Safety team will decide.
- Apr 8, 2019
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Ah i see, so i should just avoid doing their events then. i'll just focus on luna's from now on...even tho there isn't much...i sometimes wonder if the dev dislike luna
- Dec 24, 2018
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Yeah, even as a Incest kink, it wouldn't really be a traditional one, with the whole MC "growing up" under Cordia's care being non-existent.
In terms of the whole what is treated as Incest, there would be so many debate of "Yes it is." "No it isn't" or "It depends on the state" etc etc that I wouldn't want to get into.
But I think this type of debate (or arguments depending on who discusses them I suppose), would be something Hopes wishes to avoid (though I guess we won't know until he chips in this convo, heh).
Damn, I was just about to reply to him, and you beat me to it!
True.
Does Patreon actually say anywhere on their guidelines/rules their definition of incest?
I don't think I'm seeing anything else other than the whole "Trust and Safety Team" will decide case by case that you quoted.
- Jan 1, 2019
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I wouldn't say avoid, while it's not a harem game and there's a 'cheating' tag (mainly for Isabel, I suppose), you can do all of them conjointly, there's even a small 'opening' with Gracie and Isabel if you want to go that way. There's a lot of background to be known, too. And, well, Uncle is probably aware of everything anyway.
Bear in mind, I played as a 'manwhore', and I supposed you probably can't play their paths without lewd content, but I'm not 100% sure.
Lastly, for Luna, yeah there are less events than the other 2, especially Gracie, but 'dislike' ? The 'I am Luna' event is possibly the biggest and most meaningful of them all, so far in the game. (both Gracie and Isabel had meaningful ones, too, but Luna had the most impact, to me at least, only Leap of Faith and Artemis managed to make me cry, until that event)