- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
No, not DLC as in "downloadable content"; it's DLC, the acronym for Defending Lydia Collier, the dev's other game.
- Thread starter xןʞ
- Start date
- Aug 8, 2017
- 24,077
- 16,537
Its been over 2 years now since an update and this should be marked as abandoned until such time as a new update comes out.
As per the rules on F95 18 months without an update the abandoned tag goes up.
As per the rules on F95 18 months without an update the abandoned tag goes up.
- Feb 17, 2018
- 1,163
- 1,458
Sad, was one of the first games on here that I got fully invested in and played every which way I could think. 
- May 9, 2019
- 4,889
- 16,247
It has been explained the game is not abandoned, it is in hold until Defending Lydia Collier is finished.
Several times.
- May 16, 2019
- 1,871
- 2,471
The game is Abandoned by F95zone's rarted policy, so there really is nothing we could do about it.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
While I don't like to see it, this happens on many games that have long production cycles with little-to-no communication anyway, even when those are actively being developed; every year there's a new release even when nobody gets updated on progress. So getting the Abandoned label slapped on this — where there have been updates about its status, multiple times — is unfortunate. It's realistically meaningless in this case anyway: again, WPG is regularly on this site, and he continues to reiterate from time to time that this is not abandoned. So no matter what F95 rules might dictate happens to this thread, don't believe any of it. This game is not abandoned in the slightest, but there's really nothing to do but just let this be marked as it is for the time being.
- Aug 8, 2017
- 24,077
- 16,537
It does not matter how many times the dev updates a post about it it matters that there is no update in over 18 months letting the players know something is off and needs to be adware of the fact.
Its not retarded in letting players know something may not be good, it should not take more than 18 months for an updated regardless of making another game or not.
Its just a way to let players know they may not want to invest any time or money on a game or VN with the abandoned tag.
I for one will never support a game/VN that takes more than 3 months for an update and will not invest any time in games/VN's with either the on-hold tag or the abandoned tag.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
Yeah, and I get that. IJS that this isn't actually abandoned, despite how it's labeled. Ofc I don't think it's a problem that the rules have been properly applied here. However, I do think it's important to note that the dev (1) is active on this site; (2) is currently actively developing his other game; (3) has stated several times he will come back to this as soon as DLC is finished.
Could the latter promise be lies? It's always possible, I suppose. But having seen his work and actions — including revamping this some time ago to fix a major problem it originally had and asking his patrons whether to switch to TMSoM periodically to provide another update — I believe him when he says as soon as the other game's finished he'll be back to work on this one. The reasoning for the shift in work is important, and it's something he's clearly used to improve as a developer and storyteller, not just as a tantrum b/c of lack of pay or as a consequence of lack of inspiration or something. So again, labeling this Abandoned is correct; believing the label in this case is silly IMO.
- May 16, 2019
- 1,871
- 2,471
Context matters. Putting the tag here is stupid because, like -CookieMonster666- said, the dev (1) is active on this site; (2) is currently actively developing his other game; (3) has stated several times he will come back to this as soon as DLC is finished. Most people here assume the worst when they see the tag, so we have to explain stuff again and again ad nauseum.
Like this guy:
On-hold Patrol at it again.
(It's not abandoned, its on-hold until DLC is done, if you get news regarding SoM and it ain't from me, its meaningless.)
- May 16, 2019
- 1,871
- 2,471
What's the point of the tag then if its supposed and true purpose are always debatable?
So much unnecessary work.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
Firstly, I would point out that it's a label, not a tag. A lot of people (including a1fox3) use the wrong term. Normally I don't think it matters that much, but in discussions like this specifically, it gets confusing when you misname things.
Now, to your question: I agree with you that this happens. However, F95 has rules that I think should be followed. I don't always agree with the rules (like in this case), but if the rules get consistently followed (spoiler: they don't), people would have a much better understanding of why things happen.
It's the same for tags in a game (not only for labels). If something is tagged as netorare but that hasn't been added to a game yet, it's misleading b/c someone expects the content to be there. Yet, there are some who say that should be applied because it will be there. So who is right? A rule has to be created and adhered to so people understand what's being said. So as a1fox3 said, the point of the Abandoned label is to flag that at present no progress on the game should be expected currently.
This game is a special case ofc, because WPG has said multiple times (and just reiterated above) that this is not actually abandoned. But when 90+% of games that get the label are, in fact, abandoned, it's better to err on the side of caution and occasionally mislabel stuff. It's an imperfect system, and I definitely don't always agree with specific standards that have been laid down for this type of stuff. But I do think that without any specifics it makes it a lot harder for people on the site to make any determination about games to support, etc.
So I disagree with the implication as a consequence of following the site guidelines, but I do agree with the guidelines themselves and with following them when they apply, even if it results in something unfortunate like what's happened here.
- May 9, 2019
- 4,889
- 16,247
Says who?
I understand the thing about F95 rules, but this claim of yours is ridiculous.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
I agree. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that something that clearly has been stated (over and over again, not just a time or two) to be on hold could take longer than 18 months to update. WPG has directly said on the DLC thread (maybe here too? I haven't checked) that he's used polls on Patreon to see if his supporters wanted this updated periodically as DLC continued primary development. The polls said they wanted him to finish the other game instead of updating this one. That sounds to me like it should take however long it does (even longer than 18 months) since it's been specifically requested by his patrons not to switch back and forth for the time being.
- May 16, 2019
- 1,871
- 2,471
Shouldn't the On Hold label be enough for that purpose? Abandoned feels like an absolute state while On Hold can have a versatile range.
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
You would think so, and I would hope so. However, unfortunately I've also seen some devs (absolutely not WPG ofc) use On Hold as a reason to indefinitely delay doing anything with a game.
I don't normally like to talk about games from other devs on a thread, but take Bad Bobby Saga, for instance. RAInces has used the on-hold status effectively to avoid doing practically anything on the game. That thread had been listed as On Hold for enough months to add up to 2 years or more, but it really was pretty much abandoned. It seemed obvious to anyone following that game for a long time (like I had been) that it was never going to get finished. IIRC that's marked as Abandoned now, but it took forever to get switched over.
The above example is why there is a limit to how long On Hold is allowed to remain before being switched over to Abandoned. I don't like when it happens, but as you've seen, I have emphasized that this game is not actually abandoned. WPG stating that directly here earlier today is, of course, an excellent thing as well. Like the saying goes, it only takes one bad apple. So ridiculous developers ruin things for excellent ones like WPG.
- Aug 8, 2017
- 24,077
- 16,537
The primary purpose is to inform the players to really take a look for them selves if they want to risk playing and supporting something that is now over 2 years since its been updated.
It is now used on all games/VN that take more than 18 months for an update to show that the dev may be stringing along supporters just for money.
It may not be the case here but there have been many VN/games that have done this just to keep making money on a product that they will never finish.
The mods are trying to make sure that the rules are now applied to any and all VN/games so player will know something is up.
Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.
I'm not claiming anything I am following the rules set by F95.
Last edited:
- Nov 20, 2018
- 11,852
- 17,566
They were referring to this statement you made: "it should not take more than 18 months for an updated regardless of making another game or not."
Technically, that is a claim and has nothing to do with rules on F95. That statement in particular doesn't point to F95's policy as the reason for the label. It doesn't even talk about the label. It's making a claim that the dev's actions are incorrect, that an update "should not take more than 18 months". That is the claim being cited. And that is a completely subjective statement.
Whether something should or should not be given a particular label is another matter and obviously reflects the reasoning F95 uses for requiring the Abandoned label. However, specifically what was quoted by Ayhsel is still a claim and not an objective statement. I'm not saying that generally you meant anything more than applying the label, but it stands to reason this is why that particular sentence was cited.
- May 9, 2019
- 4,889
- 16,247