VN Ren'Py Abandoned The Manifest: Shadows Over Manston [v2.2] [White Phantom Games]

4.20 star(s) 37 Votes

Samuel Hidayat

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May 16, 2019
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You would think so, and I would hope so. However, unfortunately I've also seen some devs (absolutely not WPG ofc) use On Hold as a reason to indefinitely delay doing anything with a game.

I don't normally like to talk about games from other devs on a thread, but take Bad Bobby Saga, for instance. RAInces has used the on-hold status effectively to avoid doing practically anything on the game. That thread had been listed as On Hold for enough months to add up to 2 years or more, but it really was pretty much abandoned. It seemed obvious to anyone following that game for a long time (like I had been) that it was never going to get finished. IIRC that's marked as Abandoned now, but it took forever to get switched over.

The above example is why there is a limit to how long On Hold is allowed to remain before being switched over to Abandoned. I don't like when it happens, but as you've seen, I have emphasized that this game is not actually abandoned. WPG stating that directly here earlier today is, of course, an excellent thing as well. Like the saying goes, it only takes one bad apple. So ridiculous developers ruin things for excellent ones like WPG.
In my mind's eye, this case (and others like it) should be an exception to the rule. I see too many games/threads given the Abandoned label only for the devs are still actively working on their games (nothing scummy like Milfy City or the one you mentioned). It seems like the mods are either too dumb to see the situation properly or they just don't give a fuck at all. It's ridiculous.
 

-CookieMonster666-

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Nov 20, 2018
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In my mind's eye, this case (and others like it) should be an exception to the rule. I see too many games/threads given the Abandoned label only for the devs are still actively working on their games (nothing scummy like Milfy City or the one you mentioned). It seems like the mods are either too dumb to see the situation properly or they just don't give a fuck at all. It's ridiculous.
I somewhat agree, but by the same token one of the big complaints that I see on this site is that rules aren't applied consistently, and I believe at times they are not. I don't think making an exception is going to improve the impression that there is unreliable application of rules. I'd rather have something like this temporarily happen and then move forward when WPG is ready than to have people use it as an example of "mods playing favorites" or w/e. Shrug.png
 

Samuel Hidayat

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May 16, 2019
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I somewhat agree, but by the same token one of the big complaints that I see on this site is that rules aren't applied consistently, and I believe at times they are not. I don't think making an exception is going to improve the impression that there is unreliable application of rules. I'd rather have something like this temporarily happen and then move forward when WPG is ready than to have people use it as an example of "mods playing favorites" or w/e. View attachment 2417076
If the mods are diligent enough, they put out a post explaining why the game/thread gets labelled with Abandoned, then hyperlink it to OP/first page. It's only necessary for special cases like Milfy City and the like, while other games that aren't actually abandoned or played around by scummy devs get the well-deserved On Hold.
 

-CookieMonster666-

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Nov 20, 2018
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If the mods are diligent enough, they put out a post explaining why the game/thread gets labelled with Abandoned, then hyperlink it to OP/first page. It's only necessary for special cases like Milfy City and the like, while other games that aren't actually abandoned or played around by scummy devs get the well-deserved On Hold.
I think we've beaten the horse to death by now. I will continue to think consistency is more important and that "exceptions to the rule" only cause more confusion or problems. You will continue to feel differently, I assume. I've seen some mods / staff members specify why something gets marked Abandoned, and I've seen some not include a reason. I don't think this is going to happen consistently, which is really the reason for all of this discussion in the first place. In any case, we aren't going to change the rules here, and those have been followed. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd like to move on from this discussion at this point.
 
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a1fox3

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Aug 8, 2017
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What happened? Did the dev confirm there won't be any updates?
See rule #2.

Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.
 

Samuel Hidayat

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May 16, 2019
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What happened? Did the dev confirm there won't be any updates?
See what I'm talking about? You'll get folks asking "what happened" and shit all the time with the Abandoned label.
See rule #2.

Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.
Rule #2 truly goes against every critical and logical thinking people have about the word "abandoned".

We reap what we sow, I guess. Keep on explaining what the label truly means for the umpteenth time. Have fun.
 

JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
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Finally got all caught up to the game (yay!).

I quite like Defending Lydia Collier a lot but I'm surprised to say, in terms of the story I actually do prefer this game slightly compared to LC.

But regardless, I'm looking forward to how LC concludes (just few more updates remaining?), and White Phantom getting back to this game after he finishes LC.
 

baklol

Active Member
Aug 13, 2018
693
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Cmon dude, finish the actual game before you start doing DLC for it! No-one likes day 1 DLC!

Sorry, I was weak and couldn't resist. Seriously though, I love SoM and DLC, so getting both at end of the day is good by me.
well i personally like this one so waiting for this one to be continue again lets see how many more days dlc will get to finish line
 

baklol

Active Member
Aug 13, 2018
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I don't know, at this point the abandoned tag is pretty earned. When DLC will be completed this game will be so old that it will need to be basically remade from the start.
story will be rendered too but this story was good
 
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Prokopije

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Jun 5, 2017
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This game was great before rework AKA "simplification", where important choices were removed, some unpleasant things forced etc. After that it became crappy... something to play if there is literally nothing else to play... abandoned or not abandoned, don't really care...
 

AngelsAfterDark

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Jun 11, 2021
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This game was great before rework AKA "simplification", where important choices were removed, some unpleasant things forced etc. After that it became crappy... something to play if there is literally nothing else to play... abandoned or not abandoned, don't really care...
Even so, hope you're ready for the mosh pit shaka brah:HideThePain:
 
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Gwb2006

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Jan 7, 2018
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Firstly, I would point out that it's a label, not a tag. A lot of people (including a1fox3) use the wrong term. Normally I don't think it matters that much, but in discussions like this specifically, it gets confusing when you misname things.

Now, to your question: I agree with you that this happens. However, F95 has rules that I think should be followed. I don't always agree with the rules (like in this case), but if the rules get consistently followed (spoiler: they don't), people would have a much better understanding of why things happen.

It's the same for tags in a game (not only for labels). If something is tagged as netorare but that hasn't been added to a game yet, it's misleading b/c someone expects the content to be there. Yet, there are some who say that should be applied because it will be there. So who is right? A rule has to be created and adhered to so people understand what's being said. So as a1fox3 said, the point of the Abandoned label is to flag that at present no progress on the game should be expected currently.

This game is a special case ofc, because WPG has said multiple times (and just reiterated above) that this is not actually abandoned. But when 90+% of games that get the label are, in fact, abandoned, it's better to err on the side of caution and occasionally mislabel stuff. It's an imperfect system, and I definitely don't always agree with specific standards that have been laid down for this type of stuff. But I do think that without any specifics it makes it a lot harder for people on the site to make any determination about games to support, etc.

So I disagree with the implication as a consequence of following the site guidelines, but I do agree with the guidelines themselves and with following them when they apply, even if it results in something unfortunate like what's happened here.

This is a great perspective and I agree. Rules can be annoying at times, but they are there for a reason and usually helpful. There needs to be a system in place for situations in which games don't get updated whether or not the dev has a good reason. Regardless of all that, when this game does get updated it will show up on the Latest Updates page and things will continue normally.
 
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4.20 star(s) 37 Votes