VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

4.40 star(s) 38 Votes

FatGiant

Forum Fanatic
Jan 7, 2022
4,368
13,735
I do think there should be other options
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only 4 LI's, is it Not so? There may be other girls to flirt and eventually bang, but the LI's are only 4, right?

Of those 4, that we know right now, only 2 have access to Neverwhere. Maybe Fiona has something, but it isn't in the story yet. Medb, is not yet an ally to be leading him around Neverwhere, so, that leaves only Kaija, whether you are in her route or not to be the LI that goes with him.

Why must it be a LI, well, because of what happens during the tour. It wouldn't be fitting to leave that for a side-chick.

The only option would be to elevate one of the side-chicks to LI if we reject one of the 4. If the game isn't an Harem isn't those rejections the end goal of the game? Wouldn't the continuous transfer of LI status to another girl be going against that end goal?

You rejected the only person fit to take you on your first tour of a new world? Well... deal with it... We'll have to make harder and more complex choices before the end (not me, I'll only play this once and Kaija is already chosen).

Honestly, to me, all the other girls are just eye-candy, couldn't care less for them and their story.

Peace :)
 

JJJ84

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
3,037
6,314
Why must it be a LI, well, because of what happens during the tour. It wouldn't be fitting to leave that for a side-chick.

The only option would be to elevate one of the side-chicks to LI if we reject one of the 4. If the game isn't an Harem isn't those rejections the end goal of the game? Wouldn't the continuous transfer of LI status to another girl be going against that end goal?

You rejected the only person fit to take you on your first tour of a new world? Well... deal with it... We'll have to make harder and more complex choices before the end (not me, I'll only play this once and Kaija is already chosen).

Honestly, to me, all the other girls are just eye-candy, couldn't care less for them and their story.
Well good for you, given you only play through the Kaija route.

As for myself, I play Kaija and Medb routes.
Kaija is fantastic, but for me, Medb is just supreme, above all :love:.

For my Medb solo path, I had Ciandan bring MC to Templar HQ (even though the dude is an asshole :HideThePain: ), and I would have happily chosen Linnae as the person to show around Neverwhere in that playthrough.

Main LI or not, why does it even matter? lol That matters zilch in terms of story, and Lin as an alternate guide fits just fine, and even makes more sense in terms of story for those non-Kaija routes.

Hence, I'm in agreement with Ava that Linnae should have been the one to show MC around in those non-Kaija LI paths (instead of basically overlapping Kaija scenes regardless of player's decision).
 
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FatGiant

Forum Fanatic
Jan 7, 2022
4,368
13,735
Well good for you, given you only play through the Kaija route.

As for myself, I play Kaija and Medb routes.
Kaija is fantastic, but for me, Medb is just supreme, above all :love:.

For my Medb solo path, I had Ciandan show my MC around (even though the dude is an asshole :HideThePain: ), and I would have happily chosen Linnae as the person to show around Neverwhere in that playthrough.

Main LI or not, why does it even matter? lol That matters zilch in terms of story, and Lin as an alternate guide fits just fine, and even makes more sense in terms of story for those non-Kaija routes.

Hence, I'm in agreement with Ava that Linnae should have been the one to show MC around in those non-Kaija LI paths (instead of basically overlapping Kaija scenes regardless of player's decision).
Have no doubts, I would happily pursue Medb if this was a Harem game. Or had a Harem path. As it is, it is Kaija ONLY.

My reasons may not make sense to anyone else, I am aware of it, but, why would I get to know, involve myself with, just to HAVE to drop them later? So, no involvement with anyone else, and only ONE play. Done, forgotten and deleted. I don't find any value in repeating frustration engines. I'll do it once, deal with it as best I can and it's done. It's not only boring, to my own particular views, it's just a waste. Go to the trouble of making many paths and not making the extra one that would satisfy another group of users. But, it isn't up to me to tell the Dev how to spend it's efforts. I just play his game in my own way, as it provides me the less amount of frustration. So, it isn't that I chose Kaija, it was already chosen. I don't believe that there's any extra value in the other girls that will be worth the aggravation of choice, there NEVER is, it's just the same with other faces. So, only one play, in this case with the LI that was already pre-chosen by the Dev. One less choice for me. Yupiii...

Peace :)
 

bentalos

Newbie
Aug 5, 2017
92
155
Enjoyed the game. I just hit on everyone and will see where it leads. He might say there is no Harem but it sure feels like one. Reminds me of Love of Magic, just better made.
 
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Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
25,199
86,283
Enjoyed the game. I just hit on everyone and will see where it leads. He might say there is no Harem but it sure feels like one. Reminds me of Love of Magic, just better made.
You can get with some of the side girls as well as a main LI but you won't be able to get all main LI's. Picking one blocks scenes with another.
 

Joshy92

Devoted Member
Mar 25, 2021
8,931
19,241
I liked Kaija at first because she was really hot
But as we got to know her I found out she is also beautiful on the inside

She is the kind of girl any guy would lucky to be with
 
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nitkonikic

Member
Sep 17, 2018
290
1,119
I have to admit that I find it weird people hate Kaija for keeping a secret organisation a secret.
Keeping a secret is slimy, but that's not the problem.

I would dislike her, I would break relationship, but I wouldn't hate her if that was her crime.

Her crime is whoring herself to make her job easier. Her crime is pretending to love MC romantically to make her job easier. Her crime is making MC live a lie for years, believing he lives with a woman that loves him, when in reality, she's just working.

If we take this scenario to real life, MC would be scarred for life. How does he trust any woman ever again?
Is she also just on a mission by Templars, do mommy and daddy dear know?

His love life would be in shambles for years.

There is nothing anyone can say or do to make me not hate Kaija. She is a horrible, disgusting human being.

EDIT: It would also lead to quite interesting talk with parents eventually, who supported this. They had their, not their sons, best interests in mind. Fuck them too.

EDIT 2: Now that I'm on PC, and not mobile, just want to add there is huge, massive difference between Love Kaija and "friend" Kaija.
Will spoiler tag it for people who might not have seen the different scenes but:
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There are some other scenes that now escape my mind. Overall, my opinion is based on first result I got (2/5, "Friend"), and that opinion is "Holly hell, this woman is irredeemable"
 
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marspig

Member
Oct 16, 2018
177
597
The plot at the beginning is really disgusting. The MC is treated like an idiot and has been hiding the truth (for whatever reason) since he was a child.

Is the heroine a robot without personality? She needs to follow other people's arrangements to serve the MC? And she has been arranged since she was a child? And she has been hiding the truth?

"Hiding you is all for your own good." After these truths are revealed, will you still like the heroine?
To be honest, I don't want to talk to her at all, even if she is the main heroine.


Later~

Oh my gosh, the creator expressed all my doubts and resentments.
If MC is unwilling to reconcile with KAIJA after discovering the truth, MC will quarrel with her in the church. What MC said is also my resentment.
The creators anticipated players’ reactions, which is awesome.
 
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e6mill

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2022
1,529
3,000
Her crime is whoring herself to make her job easier. Her crime is pretending to love MC romantically to make her job easier. Her crime is making MC live a lie for years, believing he lives with a woman that loves him, when in reality, she's just working.
"Pretending"? Were your parents pretending to love you also then? It's a vast conspiracy to not love you! :p
 

Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
25,199
86,283
"You know that secret organisation we all work for that is literally stopping the world from ending, you know what would be really funny, if we didn't tell the MC for the lols"......
 

xapican

Devoted Member
May 11, 2020
8,435
12,411
"You know that secret organisation we all work for that is literally stopping the world from ending, you know what would be really funny, if we didn't tell the MC for the lols"......
I don't care! about the world they don't love meeeeeeee.............:cry::cry::cry: they are bad people! :cautious::cautious:
 
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Dark Silence

Devoted Member
Jul 17, 2021
8,095
12,130
Did anyone else have to restart? Game didn't like my saves apparently. Ahaha Even moved them from .3 to .4, still didn't see them. Nor did it see the ones in AppData. All good though.
 

Ceolag

Member
Donor
Game Developer
Sep 6, 2020
260
3,538
I actually don't agree that that Kaija was the only option to show MC around Neverwhere.
Sure, she was the "familiar" territory to him, but assuming we're going with the whole "MC doesn't trust Kaija after keeping the whole Templar thing a secret and also felt they were drifting apart" scenario i.e. Medb or any other non-Kaija LI paths, why couldn't other characters have shown MC around?

Like for example, Linnae? She was set to take the fall for MC and Kaija's little excursion to Neverwhere anyway in Kaija-solo path, so she could have been the prime candidate to show MC around; and her trying to justify to other Templar Masters that "MC needed to know" and resigning the same.

That, I'd say would have been a far better alternative, than playing the scene with Kaija doing the showing around Neverwhere which plays out pretty much almost identically as when player is going through the Kaija-solo path.
And yes, Kaija showing MC around Neverwhere, laughing and smiling while teaching him the basics makes 100% sense in her own path, but it makes much less sense (given she acts the same) if the player isn't pursuing her.

It just made things seem a bit weird, given they had an argument in the templars office (after Linnae's orders), and unless the player suddenly turned a 180 degrees from friend-zoning to choosing "Oh I changed my mind, I wanna take you back." :HideThePain: I'd say if the player chose to just friend-zone Kaija, and wanting to stay on that path, there should have been some sort of choice as to who can show MC around Neverwhere.



As for Medb can't be the guide and show MC around Neverwhere, lol of course not.
But that doesn't mean a separate branch couldn't have been created for those on Medb-solo path; I can already think of one example which is the following;



Only thing that matters is the whole MC saved Medb's life and her owing him a life debt leading to her releasing MC's father.
There could have been a lot of meat on the bones added (and it doesn't even need to be what I wrote above. Just anything, as long as it aligns with leading to the expected conclusion, where the branches end) for Medb's arc with this update with more stuff added which is exclusive to her solo-path.


As for Sandstorm and Snowstorm, well I did state the story and characters are different.
But even so, GleenX is currently doing a really good job with the branches atm, how each LI's arc, diverges with branches until eventually converging, which is what I wanted to point out.



Regarding the whole "long game" aspect, sure. It's clear Medb is a much more of slower burn LI, compared to say, Kaija. But I initially wasn't sure of how long of a game that Ceolag has got planned for this.
If he only planned an entirety of 10 chapters for this, then most likely I would be getting pretty concerned.
But taking a look at the thread's OP, it does say "Book 1, Chapter 4."; meaning at least 2 Books/Seasons worth of storyline.
No idea how many Chapters will there be per season, but even so.
I'll give you that one, heh.


EDIT:


Actually, reading this, I am back to being pretty wary now :HideThePain:
Book 2 with completely different story and new MC (and likely new LIs) will mean MC's arcs with LI will need to be all wrapped up within the planned 11~12 chapters of Book 1.
Which means, we're already nearly halfway :HideThePain: (considering 5.5 or 6 chapters is halfway mark, it's close enough).





My personal hope is, with Medb-solo path, in the future it allowing players to explore locations (such as Elves' forest residence) exclusive to that path, and those locations being locked out if player is on Kaija-solo path (and Kaija solo path having its own exclusive places not available on other paths).
Otherwise, if too much content overlap between path, all there's gonna be is a lot of ctrl fast skip on those second playthrough paths lol.
Not sure whether Ceolag is thinking of this or not, but I hope.

Somehow, this turned into a big ramble from my end lol :HideThePain::HideThePain:
I understand that and completely agree. I do think there should be other options, or at least Lin, rather than Kaija showing him around if not on her route.

I just don't understand people hating on Kaija for just doing her job.



She did risk her job when she saved his life. She dropped her own mission to get to him.
I thought about having a different branch for non-Kaija. Something like I did in CH2 with Cianan/Kaija.
But there were several problems with that. Essentially, Cianan is a shortcut to the end. It leaves out quite a bit of content.
That wouldn't work with the CH4 part, obviously. Both branches needed to be pretty close in content.
Out of the 4 LI's there's just 1 option for the trip, Kaija. Medb barely talks to MC at that point. Let alone the fact that MC doesn't even know how to get to Neverwhere.

That leaves side characters as the only viable option. Namely Linnae and Cianan. While I can come up with explanations why neither Linnae (Council Member of an order facing a crisis) nor Cianan (he'd just drag you away from everything looking like trouble) is a better fit than Kaija, the real reason is another one: time. My time.
The Neverwhere part is roughly 1/3 of the Chapter and everything had to be re-posed, re-rendered, and re-written for the 2nd branch. Just to come up with essentially the same result story-wise. You could easily add 2 more months of development time just to have the same end result with another character at your side.
I decided against that.
Now, if I had more time, resources, a team, whatever, I'd always be in favor of more options. But I don't, so I had to make a decision.

Considering the imbalance between Kaija and Medb. That's literally picking the 2 extremes. The one you know best from the start and the one you know absolutely nothing.
I absolutely understand the problem with Medb especially, though. It just doesn't make sense for her character (at that point) to join you in a yoga course to have a chat ;-)
She'll have her parts later in the game (starting with Chapter 5).

There will be path-exclusive content (also in later chapters). Up to now I mostly avoided it (the exception is the Fiona/Elea choice in CH4) because I wanted to introduce everyone.

Of those 4, that we know right now, only 2 have access to Neverwhere. Maybe Fiona has something, but it isn't in the story yet.
Well... wrong. ;)
(you're on Kaija only so you missed it. Not blaming you, just saying!)
 

Joshy92

Devoted Member
Mar 25, 2021
8,931
19,241
This game gets better each update imo

That Medb is really beautiful
And I bet once we get to know her we'll find out she is really sweet as well
 
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4.40 star(s) 38 Votes