VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Do it.
I am of "hate Kaija with passion" opinion, but the love route is incredible wholesome (even if you don't plan on romancing her and just go for high points score), she is completely different person.

She loves MC, cares about him and is even willing to make different decisions because she cares (0.4 decision).
Pretty much all conversations where she is cold and annoyed at MC for not understanding how important her job is are switched around, with her constantly being sad she lied to him and there's genuine regret at what and how it all went.

If I got love Kaija on my 1st playthrough, I'd probably also be in Joshy's camp (minus licking part), but I didn't soooo....to hell with her!

I've done two playthroughs, one for Fiona's path and one for Elea, what a babe. Are there any other main LIs apart from Kaija? I'm not fussed on doing a playthrough just for her. Maybe I'll come back and do one. Coming in to Christmas, time is in short supply.

As others have said, everything in this game is determined by points. Ceolag has done an amazin job when it comes to that. People tell devs all the time that they want choices to actually matter, but not many have been able to pull it off. Ceolag has. It's why he has become one of my top 3 devs.

I really need to have a look at how he has done the point system. It is an interesting system for sure. I kept scoring low with the elves, I don't know where I went wrong there as I took different options with the two playthroughs I did and ended up -2 and 1.

 

[xapican]

Grumpy Old Aussie ; LI: Kaija , Fiona, Elea, Medb (Elf)
to score high with Medb, 1 when attacked by Mercenaries, Try to Speak, and Shoot him. 2 when Succubus Atacks, Resitst,
In last Chapter Help, I did it Instinctivly, and That was the Deal.
there aren't more than 5 points afaik .

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Grumpy Old Aussie ; LI: Kaija , Fiona, Elea, Medb (Elf)
to score high with Medb, 1 when attacked by Mercenaries, Try to Speak, and Shoot him. 2 when Succubus Atacks, Resitst,
In last Chapter Help, I did it Instinctivly, and That was the Deal.
there aren't more than 5 points afaik .

Medb? Hmmm now that could be interesting. Okay you have convinced me, as distasteful as it is I'll have a look at the good Kaija path. Getting on Medb's good side good be fun. Anyway I need to get off here, so much to do and hopefully get back to the game tonight my time.

 

[xapican]

Medb? Hmmm now that could be interesting. Okay you have convinced me, as distasteful as it is I'll have a look at the good Kaija path. Getting on Medb's good side good be fun. Anyway I need to get off here, so much to do and hopefully get back to the game tonight my time.

No you don't need to go on good Kaija path for Medb is ok they work independent from each other,
Maybe I wasn't clear, the 4 Main LI s are

1. Elea
2. Kaija
3. Fiona
4. Medb

 

[Dark Silence]

No you don't need to go on good Kaija path for Medb is ok they work independent from each other,
Maybe I wasn't clear, the 4 Main LI s are

1. Elea
2. Kaija
3. Fiona
4. Medb

Also, what's with Anissa? Is she just a side piece?

 

[xapican]

Also, what's with Anissa? Is she just a side piece?

Yep seems so I'm afraid

 

[Dark Silence]

Yep seems so I'm afraid

I know the boss is a sidepiece. A pitty though.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

No you don't need to go on good Kaija path for Medb is ok they work independent from each other,
Maybe I wasn't clear, the 4 Main LI s are

1. Elea
2. Kaija
3. Fiona
4. Medb

You were clear, I got mixed up in who I was answering as I was in a hurry, I haven't played the Kaija good path yet and after much prompting, I will do so with Medb as my end goal. I don't have any wish to romance Kaija at this stage

 

[Dark Silence]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Kaija could be related to Medb?

 

[xapican]

I know the boss is a sidepiece. A pitty though.

Agreed wholeheartly
*This message has been brought to you by "FARL" (Fappers Against Reaction Limits)*
edit: Oh Uh ..... Joshy is thinking....that strikes my heart with fear......

 

[Avaron1974]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Kaija could be related to Medb?

It's just you.

One is human the other is an Elf.

 

[xapican]

One is human the other is an Elf.

I'm suspecting that Medb and Fiona are Halfbloods or how ever you may call them.
and that the bitterness of Mab is due to being betrayed by a human Lover, she hates humans like GOA and DS hate Kaija

 

[Dark Silence]

It's just you.

One is human the other is an Elf.

Are you sure she's human? She has Elven features. Maybe Half Elf.

 

[Joshy92]

Medb might seem kind of mean now
But I would thaw her icy heart with a romantic love poem

And maybe take her on a nice date
I think she would like that

 

[ename144]

Yes, as pointed out by MikesDK in this post #1210, there are two very different Kaija's at the start of the story and which Kaija you get is triggered by your choice when you first enter the kitchen. It has been the theory of a number of people, including me, that this is done on purpose. One Kaija is intended to make it very easy for you to forgive her and move on. This is meant to be the Kaija solo route. The other Kaija makes it easy to continue to resent her "lie of omission" and hence break up. This opens up potential relationships with other LI's without cheating on Kaija. One choice gives you two essential relationship points and more loving and forgivable dialogue in a number of crucial conversations. The other choice results in less relationship points and more "friendly" but self righteous dialogue and even leads the reader to believe Kaija only entered into a relationship with MC because of her orders - at least initially. As I say, it makes resenting and not forgiving her easier.

Ceolag elaborates by explaining the addition of the flashback in chapter 4 here post #1254. I've always maintained that Kaija is a masterfully written character. We are just now beginning to realize Kaija is, essentially, masterfully written - twice. Love her or hate her because that's exactly what we are meant to do.

I respect Ceolag's writing skills and the work he put into Kaija's path, but I can't agree she's a masterpiece. To me, she's borderline incoherent because she's two completely different personalities trying to occupy the same point in space-time. That makes it all but impossible to discuss her without carefully targeting our arguments and vetting any in-game evidence we wish to present. It's a dissertation-level effort which is made worse by the way the rest of the game doesn't seem to reflect the distinction, implying that Kaija's actual personality has a much larger impact on the audience than it does her own life. It probably doesn't make producing the game any easier, either.

In short, you always need to state your axioms when it comes to Kaija (there's a pronoun joke in here somewhere, but Kaija is already a contentious enough topic). I'd much rather the two disparate Kaijas had been fashioned into a single character who could satisfy key points of both aspects simultaneously. That way we could all draw our impressions of Kaija based on her actions, rather than the other way around.

Still, what's done is done and these are the Kaijas we got. I find 'loving girlfriend Kaija' the more interesting model, but I've come to terms with both and will try my best to respect the differences when discussing one of them. I would not, however, recommend using this approach for other characters in the future.

 

[jufot]

To me, she's borderline incoherent because she's two completely different personalities trying to occupy the same point in space-time. That makes it all but impossible to discuss her without carefully targeting our arguments and vetting any in-game evidence we wish to present.

Agreed. Specifically, whether Kaija has actually been in love with you shouldn't have been left to the player's choice. As it stands, if you "forgive" her, she says she loves you. But if you don't, she says it was just an assignment. Those are two separate people occupying the same character, purely for the player's comfort. It's lazy and incoherent.

 

[Tulrek]

I've done two playthroughs, one for Fiona's path and one for Elea, what a babe. Are there any other main LIs apart from Kaija? I'm not fussed on doing a playthrough just for her. Maybe I'll come back and do one. Coming in to Christmas, time is in short supply.


I really need to have a look at how he has done the point system. It is an interesting system for sure. I kept scoring low with the elves, I don't know where I went wrong there as I took different options with the two playthroughs I did and ended up -2 and 1.

Yeah; Ceolag has thought his game in details.
For exemple you know whom are the LI in the main menu:



All other women are side pieces.

 

[Dark Silence]

As it stands, if you "forgive" her, she says she loves you. But if you don't, she says it was just an assignment.

That's not true. I didn't forgive her and she still says she loves you. It's because of the points. IF you don't get enough points and forgive her, she'll STILL say it was just an assignment.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Yeah; Ceolag has thought his game in details.
For exemple you know whom are the LI in the main menu:

View attachment 3166474

All other women are side pieces.

Yeah I worked that out now. I wasn't sure because of so many extra women in the story. A shame his boss isn't an LI, I like her a lot.

He has put a lot of thought in to the game. I was confused the first two run throughs with the point system and how it worked as I kept missing points. On my third I have worked it out thanks to the help of Xapican. I see why I'm missing points they are sort of hidden and dependent on other events. Interesting. A lot of thought and work has gone in to the points system. Its not easy to juggle all those variables spread over the story and tie in the point system to them. Impressive work. Some points are LI decisions and in Medb's case most of her points are linked in to other events. Nice work.

 

[jufot]

That's not true. I didn't forgive her and she still says she loves you. It's because of the points. IF you don't get enough points and forgive her, she'll STILL say it was just an assignment.

Ah, I must have missed that. That makes more sense but it's still not great. Katja and MC have been together for years. Whether she's in love with him shouldn't depend on the few actions you take during the game's short duration.