VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[TrixRabbit]

I think, he is refering to the Kaija love path.
Oh another point to consider, and not meant as an attack to anyone, we all talk about Kaijas dishonesty, but not about ours (MC) i want to know how much of the players here did a Kaija Monogamous path, or do the same for the other girls (meaning not getting the Hot scenes spread trough out this chapter)

I ignored everyone until after the events with Kaija & MCs parents - after that, not so much.

 

[TrixRabbit]

Templars, it's telling particularly on the non-Kaija love paths how she vehemently recites the Templar code etc. She is completely brainwashed....only in the love path where she waivers in answering you do I think she actually starts to understand this herself. This is where I feel her redemption will be, she will see the Templars for what they are. Sure, fighting the good fight, keeping hellspawn at bay blah blah...but by indoctrinating their members

At this point, if I can’t fight with the Elves - I’ll pick the Hellspawn over the Templars - go full Annakin Skywalker on them.

 

[Rehwyn]

Templars, it's telling particularly on the non Kaija love paths how she vehemently recites the Templar code etc. She is completely brainwashed....only in the love path where she waivers in answering you do I think she actually starts to understand this. This is where I feel her redemption will be, she will see the Templars for what they are. Sure, fighting the good fight, keeping hellspawn at bay blah blah...but by indoctrinating their members to their beliefs.

Yeah, I think one thing this game does well is create groups that aren't monolithically good or evil. The Templars arguably do some good things, but they also essentially indoctrinate people from when they are children. I think that's another reason I'm okay with forgiving Kaija; I know how hard it can be to break free of that indoctrination. And as you said, on the love path there's early signs that she's gaining some clarity there.

My ideal route I think with Kaija would be a neutral MC that eventually convinces Kaija to join him there, and the two of them get the Templars and Elves to collectively pull their heads out of their ass to address the third-party threat.

 

[TrixRabbit]

If you can't trust someone who rides a motorcycle into a raging gunbattle for you then IMO that's on you.

Her assignment from the beginning was to protect MC. She was just doing her job

 

[justin.case]

if a woman lies to me about which shop she went into and whether she bought nail polish or not I'm gone.

A motto to live by tbh.

So the romantic nature of your relationship developed despite her refusal to follow it out of orders, which suggests that the attraction and affection may be genuine.

I don't think you can say this. On not love path, she still choose to be gf of MC. She clearly had a change of heart there. It was easier for her, so she chose that. If either way she choose that, then you can't assume it's genuine.

 

[Rehwyn]

Her assignment from the beginning was to protect MC. She was just doing her job

She literally gets in trouble for doing this because she abandons her currently assigned mission to do it.

 

[xapican]

At this point, if I can’t fight with the Elves - I’ll pick the Hellspawn over the Templars - go full Annakin Skywalker on them.

Cool then you have more in comon with Kaija as you like to have.
(not meant as an attack, just to underline my following point please don't take it personal)
Kaija ,Is driven by revenge, and as the MC is in search of the truth, of what happend to her parents.
And she only trust, those who gave her, solance, and support (here it is what Maviarab said above about brainwashing) the corrupted Knight Templar Order, she is from childhood, in touch with the Great grandmaster and his Family, and started her Training at Teenage, with the help of MC Father, she is also related to the Order trough her parents and Grandparents, all facts you can read them in doesn't matter what path you are.

 

[Maviarab]

If you can't trust someone who rides a motorcycle into a raging gunbattle for you then IMO that's on you.

Her assignment from the beginning was to protect MC. She was just doing her job

Maybe if our bodyguard wasn't in an entirely different realm then that course of action would not have been required

She literally gets in trouble for doing this because she abandons her currently assigned mission to do it.

Only on a certain path. On others she is told to by Linnae and Linnae covers her ass with the council to avoid her getting into trouble.

This is why (not having a go at you) in a heavy story based game, you should play all paths so you know when you are stating facts, or just saying something from one path perspective. On the non-love path, no, Kaija very much does not disobey orders at all, she is told to intercept by Linnae, she does not do it of her own volition.

 

[motseer]

Maybe if our bodyguard wasn't in an entirely different realm then that course of action would not have been required

Only on a certain path. On others she is told to by Linnae and Linnae covers her ass with the council to avoid her getting into trouble.

This is why (not having a go at you) in a heavy story based game, you should play all paths so you know when you are stating facts, or just saying something from one path perspective. On the non-love path, no, Kaija very much does not disobey orders at all, she is told to intercept by Linnae, she does not do it of her own volition.

And on the loved her until I saw her true colors path she came of her own volition, got into trouble for it and then got dumped.

 

[Rehwyn]

Only on a certain path. On others she is told to by Linnae and Linnae covers her ass with the council to avoid her getting into trouble.

This is why (not having a go at you) in a heavy story based game, you should play all paths so you know when you are stating facts, or just saying something from one path perspective. On the non-love path, no, Kaija very much does not disobey orders at all, she is told to intercept by Linnae, she does not do it of her own volition.

I generally take the perspective that alternate paths aren't canon unless you're on that path, since motives and whatnot can be so different. In my mind, the Kaija that saves you because she's ordered to is a different person than the one that abandons her mission to save you. They are "alternate universe" versions of each other.

So yeah, my perspective is from a Kaija love path. It's the path on which the decision of whether or not to forgive her matters the most.

 

[Dessolos]

I'm curious if people with this perspective would view things differently if the situation was grounded more in reality than fantasy.

For example, if Kaija was like... a secret CIA operative protecting you from international crime syndicates that had a grudge against your parents. Personally, it'd be upsetting but quickly forgivable. The only potential romantic partners she could have while being transparent without breaking other vows would be CIA operative within the same operational unit. And your parents specifically told her not to tell you. So it's easy for me to empathize with the conflict she must have felt wanting to be honest with you as romantic feelings grew but not being able to without becoming foresworn or even potentially putting you in danger.

Yes, learning she's been dishonest would hurt, probably quite a bit. But if it was clear that she was remorseful and wanted to tell you but couldn't, I'd likely be quick to forgive with the caveat that going forward we're in it together.

This is one of the few reasons I kind of why I find it easy to forgive her. I view her role within the Templars as something like a CIA agent where she can't tell the MC not just because she would get in trouble. But also because it's something she has to show the MC for him to believe. So I really don't blame her at all for the lies because of this.

There is more reasons of course but this is just one of them.

 

[xapican]

And on the loved her until I saw her true colors path she came of her own volition, got into trouble for it and then got dumped.

In German please ? that sounded Spanish to me ?
(free translated phrase to say I understood shit what motsy meant )

 

[justin.case]

I think, he is refering to the Kaija love path.
Oh another point to consider, and not meant as an attack to anyone, we all talk about Kaijas dishonesty, but not about ours (MC) i want to know how much of the players here did a Kaija Monogamous path, or do the same for the other girls (meaning not getting the Hot scenes spread trough out this chapter)

I want to answer that. At my blind play, I kept MC loyal until the end of chapter 1. Friendly but not flirty to Elea and Fiona. I also had high Kaija points, 4/5 I think. After the shitshow, I considered the relationship and friendship has ended but kept things ambiguous on purpose for possible revenge. Btw, I hated when we couldn't back talked to mother at the kitchen. I got the Elea beach scene, then kept friendly to Kaija at the bench all the hugging etc. because no need to be honest to dishonest people. I also chose back talking options with Templars yet kept on friendly. Then I noticed I liked Fiona more, so dropped Elea and chose Fi when possible. At this point with Fi, no exclusivity so kissing, hugging, being flirty etc. with Kaija is not cheating on Fiona but I did not lead on Elea. Though I don't remember many options with her except the scenes at her place. Btw, iirc I think that scene has lack of options. I really wanted to say, I am done with Kaija but I can't jump into a new relationship. If there was I don't remember. So, yes loyal and honest when it mattered.

 

[Maviarab]

And on the loved her until I saw her true colors path she came of her own volition, got into trouble for it and then got dumped.

Only you mots...only you...

Btw, I hated when we couldn't back talked to mother at the kitchen.

My biggest gripe was not having a witty retort towards our mother when we find out she used to be a Templar too! I so wanted an option to say 'of course you fucking were' lmao...

 

[motseer]

In German please ? that sounded Spanish to me ?
(free translated phrase to say I understood shit what motsy meant )

I have a playthrough where I start out with the intention of staying loyal to Kaija and I am in love with her. (In fact, this was my very first time through) I was grateful for the rescue but my eyes were opened during the conversation with MC's mom, sister and Kaija at the dinner table. That conversation, for me, becomes confrontational, with MC wondering if Kaija ever really cared about him. Later, at the Templar base, when Linnae tells them to talk it out, Kaija is the one who becomes confrontational until MC sows the seed of doubt about the role she has played. In that version of the (my) story MC tells her they need to take a step back. In other words, he dumps her. I made up my mind she'll need to regain MC's trust to be a friend and ally but the romance is over and MC moves on.

This is one of those rare AVN's where I feel compelled to do multiple playthoughs because it is so well written and the choices actually make a huge difference. Of course, I now have many playthroughs, including one where I forgive Kaija and we stay together. I just enjoy playing Kaija hater in this thread...

 

[xapican]

Maviarab; It's of course you are.... Once a Templar always a Templar, youself pointed it out, in a post before, applys to Kaija, as well.
And MC is it as well, he is not a initated member of the Order but he sucked up that Ideology literally with the mothermilk, and was raised with this set of values and rules.

 

[motseer]

Only you mots...only you...

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My biggest gripe was not having a witty retort towards our mother when we find out she used to be a Templar too! I so wanted an option to say 'of course you fucking were' lmao...

Mav, I am truly flattered by your "mot-the-anarchist" profile pic. Heh You even gave me some hair that isn't there. Dude, with your permission, I'd like to copy and save it? I might even have occasion to use it from time to time.

 

[Wolfram99]

She was in a no win situation

She chose the route with a big ass win. She chose to follow her oath which she follows to a T.
So in every route she is way more a templar than an ordinary human/Girlfriend.
The disobediance to direct orders does nothing to oaths of religiuos fanatics.

 

[Maviarab]

Mav, I am truly flattered by your "mot-the-anarchist" profile pic. Heh You even gave me some hair that isn't there. Dude, with your permission, I'd like to copy and save it? I might even have occasion to use it from time to time.

Hahaha....feel free, don't need my permission (though appreciate you asking)....just something I threw together as thought it was fitting hehe.

 

[TrixRabbit]

I wish we could get the option to be an operative for Medb. I mean, MC could come back, say he took some time to calm down and forgives everyone, then stroll right into Templar HQ and start planting bugs (or bombs if that's the assignment). Oh and then if you get caught you cold go "Oh ... sorry ... I really, really wanted to tell you but fuck you"