- Aug 20, 2023
- 325
- 531
We also need to account for the MC kills Finn route, since the story is mostly linear, that means whoever killed finn is irrelevant.
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
Doesn't mean that I won't kill them. I mean I want to kill allllll the Templars anyway.
- Apr 26, 2020
- 16,303
- 38,192
NEVER mess with PeanutThe fun canon way would be if it was Finn(with the day off) delivering the message and when asked what are they/she doing with MC, she just goes:
and Kaija or someone else goes mental on her
With the antagonistic tendencies of Finn she could just show this if Kaija was the recipient:
View attachment 4259348
View attachment 4259349
Fixed it.....unfortunately.......Yeah an elf appearing before a templars heavily protected VIP right after the other VIP went MIA, with Finn's diplomacy skills being as theyareWERE i dont think that would work out
Last edited:
- Aug 20, 2023
- 325
- 531
- Apr 26, 2020
- 16,303
- 38,192
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
I wonder - I have one save where I'm still nice to Kajia but told the templars / mc's parents to GFT - so if MC goes back and starts killing Templars, in that save, what does Kajia do?
- May 6, 2023
- 2,423
- 5,071
- May 11, 2020
- 10,722
- 16,333
Stab him in the back, she has practice
Just joking, not meaning to upset anyone.
- Jul 25, 2017
- 13,707
- 18,045
Stab him in the back, she has practice
Just joking, not meaning to upset anyone.
- May 20, 2022
- 1,558
- 5,127
Stab him in the back, she has practice
Just joking, not meaning to upset anyone.
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
Probably - that would be her ultimate moment of truthStab him in the back, she has practice
Just joking, not meaning to upset anyone.
MC and Kajia sitting down and having a glass of wine:
MC: "If you had to choose between the Templars and me - 100% one or the other and not both, which would you choose?"
Kajia: "That would be an incredibly hard choice, why would I have to make it?"
MC: "Because I'm killing all the templars and need to know whether to give you the antidote to the poison you just drank or not."
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
I seriously don't know what to think at this point about how the game is supposed to go. If you open the cheat menu (I've never used it but I have it in case) four of the Lis it lists are Templars but after the last chapter I don't see any way that I'd ever deliberately be involved with the Templars again unless it was as an enemy. So what TAF is Ceo (?) planning? The only reason I even have a save where I haven't burned bridges with Kajia (but I have with MCs parents) is that I want to see if there's an opportunity to convince her to leave - but even in that one, I want the head of whoever killed Finn (do not care about why they did it) - and nothing to do with the Templars other than that. In all 3 of my saves, if there's a war, I'm siding with the elves and sparing no one who remains a Templar.
- Mar 28, 2021
- 4,763
- 8,718
Templars in all likelihood didn't kill Finn though, it's a 3rd party pitting the two sides against each other. Also if you go down that path you won't get a good outcome, remember the conversation with Nimue and Medb.
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
Until someone shows me evidence that the Templars were uninvolved it doesn't change much. (I don't even care if the Templars did it accidentally, or because they got false information, or because they were under a spell - I'll still take the head of whoever did it.) And there is no way that I help or join or work with the Templars. I have a few RP with some of them but they have about -20 with me. The only way they get to zero is if the entire council resigns and departs the organization, MC's parents leave the organization, Kajia leaves the organization and I get the head of whoever killed Finn (regardless of their motive) ... then maybe I'll listen to what they have to say. It still doesn't mean I'd join them or help them but I'd sit down with one of them on neutral ground and listen. Other than that, I'll consider any outcome where the Templars are wiped out a good outcome. Unless something changes, I'll assist the Hellspawn and/or the Neverwhere cartels before I'll help the Templars. After everything that happened with Kajia etc - I found the best Li in the game, and they killed her. I'm not in a mood to be reasonable or diplomatic. Like I said, I don't know what Ceo is planning but if he didn't want MC to have an absolute hate on for the Templars, he overdid it by having them kill Finn.
Last edited:
I know I am 99.99% wrong but what if the boy Fiona saved was MC. She let some family adopt the boy while he was 2, so MC would not remember that any way. Also, if MC is not a human, it would make sense if she entrusted him to someone from Templars because they are aware of other races. Maybe she asked help and MC's parents took a notice he was important so they decided to adopt him and raise him as their own. Also, if Kaija's family somehow important in the Templars like generations of guards, it make sense they made sure Kaija becoming his guard. As far as we know, Kaija's training started around she met MC, so maybe she is purposefully trained to protect MC. I think that also make sense because when you put 2 kids together they would become friends. After that, I believe they hoped they fell for each other and maybe, without MC's or Kaija's knowledge, they were grooming MC for the grandmaster role while Kaija stand right next to him. We know MC's father was training him while not revealing what was his training for. Even Kaija mentioned you do know how to fight to MC. Also MC excelled whenever needed. On top of that, he picked up sword fighting rather quickly. I don't think none of it could happen without a foundation beforehand. It looks like they are still hiding secrets from MC and if it's about MC's past, it's not easy to reveal such a thing. Mainly, it lifts MC's protection. When you think about it, after learning about Neverwhere he found himself at there almost immediately. Maybe they are believing MC to be the chosen one, the one who would bring peace to Neverwhere. If so, not telling MC's past, Neverwhere etc. is not for protecting MC by keeping him in the dark but hiding him from harms way like Harry Potter or Anakin or any other chosen one genre. We still don't know why or who attacked MC. It was clear elves did not do it. Maybe third party is not a race but a group that trying to prevent the chosen one for protecting status quo because time and time it's been mentioned there are many profiting from the Neverwhere's chaotic nature. Peace would be bad for business.
If so, we really can't blame Kaija or the parents or Fiona like we can't blame Kenobi or Dumbledore. Now, the third party either figured it out MC is the chosen one or they took desperate measures to prevent Templar's plan so they took a leap of faith by attacking. If this is true, there must be members of third party in Templar ranks as well as alfar. Sending Fin to a mission where she will die is an exactly the type of a thing a inside man would do. It really caused MC's exile and any means of peace. I think there are some hints and clues that this is a possibility. It fits like a glove to chosen one Trope. An orphan saved, adopted, trained then become the savior of the world.
What do you guys think? I think it needs tweaking here and there but it sounds like a legit theory. My only problem with that, that Ceolag's writing is too unique to fit to a Trope that used rather quite frequently.
If so, we really can't blame Kaija or the parents or Fiona like we can't blame Kenobi or Dumbledore. Now, the third party either figured it out MC is the chosen one or they took desperate measures to prevent Templar's plan so they took a leap of faith by attacking. If this is true, there must be members of third party in Templar ranks as well as alfar. Sending Fin to a mission where she will die is an exactly the type of a thing a inside man would do. It really caused MC's exile and any means of peace. I think there are some hints and clues that this is a possibility. It fits like a glove to chosen one Trope. An orphan saved, adopted, trained then become the savior of the world.
What do you guys think? I think it needs tweaking here and there but it sounds like a legit theory. My only problem with that, that Ceolag's writing is too unique to fit to a Trope that used rather quite frequently.
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
I don't know about Kajia's family and them being pushed together from the start. It's possible - it wouldn't change how I feel about it though. If Fiona put MC with the Templars on purpose, that part makes sense. I think she felt ill equipped to raise a child on her own and, to an extent, like she was still in danger from her family - and so wanted to hide the child (hiding him with the Templars is probably a safe bet.) Worth remembering that she was not at all surprised by Templars and elves. I'm pretty sure she isn't human, and that she is much older than she looks. As I said yesterday - she says that she left Ireland "many years ago" but won't be specific and that she has many dark things in her past that she's not ready to talk about. But she looks to be in her early to mid 20s so ... when exactly did she do all these dark and terrible things? As a child?I know I am 99.99% wrong but what if the boy Fiona saved was MC. She let some family adopt the boy while he was 2, so MC would not remember that any way. Also, if MC is not a human, it would make sense if she entrusted him to someone from Templars because they are aware of other races. Maybe she asked help and MC's parents took a notice he was important so they decided to adopt him and raise him as their own. Also, if Kaija's family somehow important in the Templars like generations of guards, it make sense they made sure Kaija becoming his guard. As far as we know, Kaija's training started around she met MC, so maybe she is purposefully trained to protect MC. I think that also make sense because when you put 2 kids together they would become friends. After that, I believe they hoped they fell for each other and maybe, without MC's or Kaija's knowledge, they were grooming MC for the grandmaster role while Kaija stand right next to him. We know MC's father was training him while not revealing what was his training for. Even Kaija mentioned you do know how to fight to MC. Also MC excelled whenever needed. On top of that, he picked up sword fighting rather quickly. I don't think none of it could happen without a foundation beforehand. It looks like they are still hiding secrets from MC and if it's about MC's past, it's not easy to reveal such a thing. Mainly, it lifts MC's protection. When you think about it, after learning about Neverwhere he found himself at there almost immediately. Maybe they are believing MC to be the chosen one, the one who would bring peace to Neverwhere. If so, not telling MC's past, Neverwhere etc. is not for protecting MC by keeping him in the dark but hiding him from harms way like Harry Potter or Anakin or any other chosen one genre. We still don't know why or who attacked MC. It was clear elves did not do it. Maybe third party is not a race but a group that trying to prevent the chosen one for protecting status quo because time and time it's been mentioned there are many profiting from the Neverwhere's chaotic nature. Peace would be bad for business.
If so, we really can't blame Kaija or the parents or Fiona like we can't blame Kenobi or Dumbledore. Now, the third party either figured it out MC is the chosen one or they took desperate measures to prevent Templar's plan so they took a leap of faith by attacking. If this is true, there must be members of third party in Templar ranks as well as alfar. Sending Fin to a mission where she will die is an exactly the type of a thing a inside man would do. It really caused MC's exile and any means of peace. I think there are some hints and clues that this is a possibility. It fits like a glove to chosen one Trope. An orphan saved, adopted, trained then become the savior of the world.
What do you guys think? I think it needs tweaking here and there but it sounds like a legit theory. My only problem with that, that Ceolag's writing is too unique to fit to a Trope that used rather quite frequently.
Also, I still think that first fight might be significant - after killing a dozen people herself, she freaks out a bit when MC kills one. I think it's possible that, whatever he is, shedding blood for the first time was significant and that's why she was so upset, not because he wasn't trained for it. Given who and/or what he is, him shedding blood at some point in his life was pretty unavoidable, so why would it be a huge deal that he killed just one of the people trying to kill them?
P.S. - When she says that she was praying every second of her ride that "she wasn't too late" ... too late to save MC or too late to stop him from doing something, like killing someone?
- Aug 20, 2023
- 325
- 531
My interpretation of Mab's comment of "Wated potential" towards the sister would imply that the Callisters have special blood(atleast MC n Sis), so the MC being a foster kid does not work well. Although it could open up the LI path with Jessica
- Feb 11, 2024
- 437
- 459
Or neither of them are the Callister's children. (Mab was definitely talking Jessica but we have no idea what she meant.) We haven't seen anything or heard anything that implies that the Callister's have any special powers and they've been with the Templars long enough that such powers would have shown up, and probably would have been mentioned by someone during all those talks.My interpretation of Mab's comment of "Wated potential" towards the sister would imply that the Callisters have special blood(atleast MC n Sis), so the MC being a foster kid does not work well. Although it could open up the LI path with Jessica
This was mentioned long ago, and while possible, here's counter-question: Why did she enter his life now?
Fiona is capable of following Templars to meeting with Alfar in Neverwhere without being seen.
She's not so clumsy to bump into random 9-5 salaryman twice.
Which begs another question: Did she know MCs father will be kidnapped and decided to enter MCs life more openly?
Finally, and I'm serious here, could MC be far descendant of Medb's adopted human brother?
Could he be last in that bloodline, and that's why the sword is so compatible with him?
If she's so linked to MC, how much of what she's hiding is about him? How much will be things he should have been told? Will she also be one of the girls that withheld vital information from MC?
Some said, and I'm with them, that Fiona obviously hides some things from MC and we're fine with it because they literally just met few days ago.
But will it be the same if it turns out to be false, and she observed him his whole life?
Still disagree on statement about blame.
No matter what grooming, no matter what the intention, you don't intentionally ruin someone's life because you want them to be either safe, or something of higher purpose or whatever.
It's still taking control of someone's life
Kaija is smart, adult, thinking person. She wasn't closed in 4 walls and brainwashed to that level.
She was definitely brainwashed to believe Templar agenda, but with full access to all wonders our world has to offer (internet, news, books etc.). She had to know better.
Parents? They are no parents of this MC. They are garbage human beings, whatever their reasoning. Parents that not only allow, but support and agree with, fake relationship which will mentally scar their son, aren't worthy of having children. They had plenty of outs there, some very simple, and chose to take none because they were happy with current arrangement.
If however, you mean they can't be blamed for hiding Neverwhere stuff from him, then I withdraw paragraph above. I don't blame them for hiding anything. That part I mostly support and is not reason why I hate them.
Last edited:
- Oct 8, 2024
- 609
- 549
Just been reading along for a while. I love the game but have to agree that the MC is poorly set up to play 'peacemaker' or anything like that. The Templars are clearly the bad guys in this so far. The lies and excuses of MC's parents do not even make sense. Given who they are, he and his sister should have been fully brought up in the Templars and trained from a very early age. Given who they are, MC would have had a target on his back from birth. It would be like being the child of the POTUS but for some reason they decide not to tell you they are the POTUS and just let you wander around as if you're an ordinary guy. (Except that in this case, the potential assassins are magical beings and f'in demons). That makes them either evil or too incredibly f'ing stupid to be allowed out of the house on their own. And if they had taken even minimal precautions to protect their son and daughter, then he could have known about Kajia all along - they could have just told him that she was his protection detail, and if a relationship developed then it did (He also could have gone to his parents or the council or whatever and said: "Hey, can you please stop pulling my bodyguard/girlfriend and sending her on dangerous missions far away?" or "Just be prepared to send me as well, wherever she's going." So, they (the Council, the Templars, his parents, Kajia) didn't care about his physical, psychosocial, or emotional well-being - didn't care may be too kind, it's like they were deliberately working to undermine those things. And now they've killed Finn (my favorite li so far - maybe in a tie with Fionna). The Templars, one and all are indefensible.