VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

4.40 star(s) 56 Votes

Elduriel

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Mar 28, 2021
4,192
7,369
Just been reading along for a while. I love the game but have to agree that the MC is poorly set up to play 'peacemaker' or anything like that. The Templars are clearly the bad guys in this so far. The lies and excuses of MC's parents do not even make sense. Given who they are, he and his sister should have been fully brought up in the Templars and trained from a very early age. Given who they are, MC would have had a target on his back from birth. It would be like being the child of the POTUS but for some reason they decide not to tell you they are the POTUS and just let you wander around as if you're an ordinary guy. (Except that in this case, the potential assassins are magical beings and f'in demons). That makes them either evil or too incredibly f'ing stupid to be allowed out of the house on their own. And if they had taken even minimal precautions to protect their son and daughter, then he could have known about Kajia all along - they could have just told him that she was his protection detail, and if a relationship developed then it did (He also could have gone to his parents or the council or whatever and said: "Hey, can you please stop pulling my bodyguard/girlfriend and sending her on dangerous missions far away?" or "Just be prepared to send me as well, wherever she's going." So, they (the Council, the Templars, his parents, Kajia) didn't care about his physical, psychosocial, or emotional well-being - didn't care may be too kind, it's like they were deliberately working to undermine those things. And now they've killed Finn (my favorite li so far - maybe in a tie with Fionna). The Templars, one and all are indefensible.
Kaija is by far the worst protection detail anyway, she is off doing whatever all the time, how the fuck is she any sort of bodyguard? :FacePalm:
 

TrixRabbit

Member
Feb 11, 2024
411
395
Just been reading along for a while. I love the game but have to agree that the MC is poorly set up to play 'peacemaker' or anything like that. The Templars are clearly the bad guys in this so far. The lies and excuses of MC's parents do not even make sense. Given who they are, he and his sister should have been fully brought up in the Templars and trained from a very early age. Given who they are, MC would have had a target on his back from birth. It would be like being the child of the POTUS but for some reason they decide not to tell you they are the POTUS and just let you wander around as if you're an ordinary guy. (Except that in this case, the potential assassins are magical beings and f'in demons). That makes them either evil or too incredibly f'ing stupid to be allowed out of the house on their own. And if they had taken even minimal precautions to protect their son and daughter, then he could have known about Kajia all along - they could have just told him that she was his protection detail, and if a relationship developed then it did (He also could have gone to his parents or the council or whatever and said: "Hey, can you please stop pulling my bodyguard/girlfriend and sending her on dangerous missions far away?" or "Just be prepared to send me as well, wherever she's going." So, they (the Council, the Templars, his parents, Kajia) didn't care about his physical, psychosocial, or emotional well-being - didn't care may be too kind, it's like they were deliberately working to undermine those things. And now they've killed Finn (my favorite li so far - maybe in a tie with Fionna). The Templars, one and all are indefensible.

This ... pretty much 100%
 

Rehwyn

Active Member
Apr 10, 2024
767
1,209
I know I am 99.99% wrong but what if the boy Fiona saved was MC. She let some family adopt the boy while he was 2, so MC would not remember that any way. Also, if MC is not a human, it would make sense if she entrusted him to someone from Templars because they are aware of other races. Maybe she asked help and MC's parents took a notice he was important so they decided to adopt him and raise him as their own. Also, if Kaija's family somehow important in the Templars like generations of guards, it make sense they made sure Kaija becoming his guard. As far as we know, Kaija's training started around she met MC, so maybe she is purposefully trained to protect MC. I think that also make sense because when you put 2 kids together they would become friends. After that, I believe they hoped they fell for each other and maybe, without MC's or Kaija's knowledge, they were grooming MC for the grandmaster role while Kaija stand right next to him. We know MC's father was training him while not revealing what was his training for. Even Kaija mentioned you do know how to fight to MC. Also MC excelled whenever needed. On top of that, he picked up sword fighting rather quickly. I don't think none of it could happen without a foundation beforehand. It looks like they are still hiding secrets from MC and if it's about MC's past, it's not easy to reveal such a thing. Mainly, it lifts MC's protection. When you think about it, after learning about Neverwhere he found himself at there almost immediately. Maybe they are believing MC to be the chosen one, the one who would bring peace to Neverwhere. If so, not telling MC's past, Neverwhere etc. is not for protecting MC by keeping him in the dark but hiding him from harms way like Harry Potter or Anakin or any other chosen one genre. We still don't know why or who attacked MC. It was clear elves did not do it. Maybe third party is not a race but a group that trying to prevent the chosen one for protecting status quo because time and time it's been mentioned there are many profiting from the Neverwhere's chaotic nature. Peace would be bad for business.

If so, we really can't blame Kaija or the parents or Fiona like we can't blame Kenobi or Dumbledore. Now, the third party either figured it out MC is the chosen one or they took desperate measures to prevent Templar's plan so they took a leap of faith by attacking. If this is true, there must be members of third party in Templar ranks as well as alfar. Sending Fin to a mission where she will die is an exactly the type of a thing a inside man would do. It really caused MC's exile and any means of peace. I think there are some hints and clues that this is a possibility. It fits like a glove to chosen one Trope. An orphan saved, adopted, trained then become the savior of the world.

What do you guys think? I think it needs tweaking here and there but it sounds like a legit theory. My only problem with that, that Ceolag's writing is too unique to fit to a Trope that used rather quite frequently. :unsure:
A few pages back, we had a brief discussion about this and I had the theory that the boy Fiona saved isn't MC, but his father. Relevant quote below.
True, but we've only recently seen any indication that MC has anything unusual either, and largely by chance.

But it did give me another thought. What do we know about MC's father's childhood and parentage? (Genuinely asking; can't remember details and at work)

If Fiona is what I think she is, I suspect the conflict she mentioned might be The Troubles. The location would be right, and the timing of that conflict (1960s to 1990s) could potentially put the boy at MC's father's age and result in both siblings being unusual.

Plus, how poetic would it be if the Grandmaster of the Templars was secretly and possibly unknowingly not entirely human. :KEK:

Definitely a stretch, and there might be some conflicting info that I'm not remembering, but I think it's an interesting idea.
The more I think about it, the better I like it as a plausible theory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maviarab

Pixillin'

Member
Oct 8, 2024
209
154
Kaija is by far the worst protection detail anyway, she is off doing whatever all the time, how the fuck is she any sort of bodyguard? :FacePalm:
That's kinda what I'm talking about. If MC's parents had been honest, instead of actively trying to get him killed, the whole Kajia situation could have been fixed. The moment she becomes MC's GF, she has a big target on her back too - like putting a flashing light about MC's apartment that says "Undefended Templar Assetts". MC could have gone to his parents and/or the council and said "We're a team now, like it or not. If she goes somewhere I go with her and vice versa."
 

Pixillin'

Member
Oct 8, 2024
209
154
A few pages back, we had a brief discussion about this and I had the theory that the boy Fiona saved isn't MC, but his father. Relevant quote below.

The more I think about it, the better I like it as a plausible theory.
Hope not. I like Fionna, If the child is MC's father, she might be sad when I kill him.
 

Adhdclassic

Engaged Member
Mar 10, 2024
2,741
4,055
When did Mebd brother die. Could he maybe be MCS real father and that's why the sword responded to him. I know she said he was human but it has been proven third parties words can't be trusted. Just curious.
 

adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
220
326
I just learned about this game and I just wanted to join this thread to say I very much appreciated being able to burn bridges with the parents. I DESPISE parents who do that, especially when their apologies aren't genuine like theirs. He had fucking mercenaries come after him with no real context for why they would care, and there was NOTHING about trying to make amends.

I hate that so. GODDAMN. MUCH.
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,087
14,049
Until now the MC and his sister have been safe living a normal life, which is what any parents want for their kids.
The option to turn your children into child soldiers is way worse than the "lie" they have been living.
Now a third party is trying to stir things up with templars and our MC landed on shit but that's not on his parents.
 

xapican

Devoted Member
May 11, 2020
10,543
15,973
Until now the MC and his sister have been safe living a normal life, which is what any parents want for their kids.
The option to turn your children into child soldiers is way worse than the "lie" they have been living.
Now a third party is trying to stir things up with templars and our MC landed on shit but that's not on his parents.
Many paths many interpretations, and also depens on your personal "crystal" to view things, I gave up to discuss this kind of Interpretations based upon what we learnd during the Chapters, it doesn't change how you get to the end only with whom and how.
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,087
14,049
Many paths many interpretations, and also depens on your personal "crystal" to view things, I gave up to discuss this kind of Interpretations based upon what we learnd during the Chapters, it doesn't change how you get to the end only with whom and how.
I'm not that interested in becoming a full templar but the parents and Katja get too much hate imo.
 

Krytax123

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2022
1,879
4,045
I'm not that interested in becoming a full templar but the parents and Katja get too much hate imo.
Same, im not really interested in joining any faction either but i agree.

The mc's immaturity and self-centered behavior justifies a lot for me too, i wouldnt have told this guy everything about all this shit when he barely is a full adult either.
 

adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
220
326
Until now the MC and his sister have been safe living a normal life, which is what any parents want for their kids.
The option to turn your children into child soldiers is way worse than the "lie" they have been living.
Now a third party is trying to stir things up with templars and our MC landed on shit but that's not on his parents.
I don't buy that for a second. Informed decisions are good decisions. This is the same logic that has parents ruin childs lives in the name of protecting them.

I call utter bullshit, and you're never going to convince me otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grumpy Old Aussie

adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
220
326
I'm not that interested in becoming a full templar but the parents and Katja get too much hate imo.
I will never, ever like being kept in the dark 'for my protection'.

I never asked for it. If I want to risk my life in some fashion once I'm an adult, that is MY DECISION. NOT. YOURS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grumpy Old Aussie

adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
220
326
He is not even trying to do, as I said you can play the VN at your leisure, and if you coment be aware that there will be people who strongly disagree and even have a diametral different view of this.
to get a bit filosophic " the truth is the mother of all lies"
And I was letting him know that being a parent apologist doesn't fly with me. Simple enough.
 

Grumpy Old Aussie

Engaged Member
May 6, 2023
2,317
4,843
I just learned about this game and I just wanted to join this thread to say I very much appreciated being able to burn bridges with the parents. I DESPISE parents who do that, especially when their apologies aren't genuine like theirs. He had fucking mercenaries come after him with no real context for why they would care, and there was NOTHING about trying to make amends.

I hate that so. GODDAMN. MUCH.
My family hid things from me for my " emotional well being". When I found out, it didn't go so well for my "emotional well being" and destroyed my relationship with all of them. It was never the same again. Trust was broken. If they would have been honest from the start, things would have been different. Even if I had gotten angry with them for a bit, I would have still trusted them and wanted them in my life.

I have seen a few cases with relatives and friends who have kept a child in the dark about their parentage. None of those cases ended well. One of our daughters we took in at 5 weeks old. We never held back the truth about her parentage from her on the rare occasion it was brought up. We have always been mum and dad to her, now she is 20 and I am her most favorite person in the world as she tells me repeatedly. Being honest from the outset is the better path.

In the story, the mother shows little remorse at all. At least the father shows remorse. I'd leave the door open for the father. The mother I would cut off at this point. I wouldn't be able to trust her.
 

adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
220
326
My family hid things from me for my " emotional well being". When I found out, it didn't go so well for my "emotional well being" and destroyed my relationship with all of them. It was never the same again. Trust was broken. If they would have been honest from the start, things would have been different. Even if I had gotten angry with them for a bit, I would have still trusted them and wanted them in my life.

I have seen a few cases with relatives and friends who have kept a child in the dark about their parentage. None of those cases ended well. One of our daughters we took in at 5 weeks old. We never held back the truth about her parentage from her on the rare occasion it was brought up. We have always been mum and dad to her, now she is 20 and I am her most favorite person in the world as she tells me repeatedly. Being honest from the outset is the better path.

In the story, the mother shows little remorse at all. At least the father shows remorse. I'd leave the door open for the father. The mother I would cut off at this point. I wouldn't be able to trust her.
Right. As far as I'm concerned with the Templars now, it's only a matter of preventing more bloodshed. They've both proven they'll put their own fears ahead of what's good for their children.
 
4.40 star(s) 56 Votes