VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

4.40 star(s) 56 Votes

TrixRabbit

Member
Feb 11, 2024
429
421
No. Finnabair had her challenge / duel - and lost. That's why she had to stop. Instead of being dead, she had a "life debt" but her challenge was still over - she didn't get a second one. You can't challenge someone you owe a life debt to to a fight to the death. I mean, I haven't been to their courts but I think in that situation you'd just have to kill yourself. And unlike your parents and Kaija, at least Finnabair was honest. You might not like the message, but trying to kill you is completely honest.
I just hope that it wasn't that life debt that got her killed - like someone pushed her for information and she tried to protect MC and got killed.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,461
14,260
No. Finnabair had her challenge / duel - and lost. That's why she had to stop. Instead of being dead, she had a "life debt" but her challenge was still over - she didn't get a second one. You can't challenge someone you owe a life debt to to a fight to the death. I mean, I haven't been to their courts but I think in that situation you'd just have to kill yourself. And unlike your parents and Kaija, at least Finnabair was honest. You might not like the message, but trying to kill you is completely honest.
This is yet more nonsense. Finnabair had already been beaten once before by the MC when she challenged him to a duel - to the death! - and that was apparently fine. After Finnabair issued her challenge, Medb and Ailill didn't end the duel as soon as the MC verbally refused, nor did they warn him that drawing a sword would constitute acceptance of the duel. And they certainly didn't mention that this duel To! The! Death! could be ended by something other than death - not until they realized Finnabair was all but certain to die if the duel continued. Finnabair should have been able to keep fighting until she or the MC was dead, but in the end she was forced to yield by the same woman who earlier claimed she couldn't intervene. However honest Finnabair was - and I personally take a very dim view of rules lawyering when the victim is making a good faith effort - her parents were decidedly disingenuous.

Of course, my whole point is that trying to kill Finnabair is ALSO "entirely honest," yet the Alfar apparently still take objection to it. 'Rules for thee but not for me' is hardly a new idea, but the Alfar take it to a ruthless extreme that I find particularly noxious. The later revelation the Finnabair was Medb's daughter only makes the hypocrisy that much worse.
 

Pixillin'

Member
Oct 8, 2024
294
208
This is yet more nonsense. Finnabair had already been beaten once before by the MC when she challenged him to a duel - to the death! - and that was apparently fine. After Finnabair issued her challenge, Medb and Ailill didn't end the duel as soon as the MC verbally refused, nor did they warn him that drawing a sword would constitute acceptance of the duel. And they certainly didn't mention that this duel To! The! Death! could be ended by something other than death - not until they realized Finnabair was all but certain to die if the duel continued. Finnabair should have been able to keep fighting until she or the MC was dead, but in the end she was forced to yield by the same woman who earlier claimed she couldn't intervene. However honest Finnabair was - and I personally take a very dim view of rules lawyering when the victim is making a good faith effort - her parents were decidedly disingenuous.

Of course, my whole point is that trying to kill Finnabair is ALSO "entirely honest," yet the Alfar apparently still take objection to it. 'Rules for thee but not for me' is hardly a new idea, but the Alfar take it to a ruthless extreme that I find particularly noxious. The later revelation the Finnabair was Medb's daughter only makes the hypocrisy that much worse.
She had been beaten by him once but it wasn't an official duel. She lost the duel. And it probably didn't occur to them to tell him. He was their first human visitor in hundreds of years, to them it probably wasn't worth mentioning until after the fact - "Oh shit he drew his sword" and "Oh shit, he doesn't understand our rules". You're either not paying attention, not thinking about it much, or just trying to find ways to justify a point of view that has no relationship with reality. And again, they would have been within their rights to just kill him as soon as he arrived. He wasn't invited, he wasn't an official emessary, he was told before he left to see Medb that his best bet was to just turn around and go home. If you really want to hate the Alfar that's fine - but they haven't given MC any real reason to hate them. He did a stupid thing by going to visit them, he was warned that it was a stupid thing to do and did it anyway - and then was saved by his own actions (unless you decided to play it especially stupid.)
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,461
14,260
She had been beaten by him once but it wasn't an official duel. She lost the duel. And it probably didn't occur to them to tell him. He was their first human visitor in hundreds of years, to them it probably wasn't worth mentioning until after the fact - "Oh shit he drew his sword" and "Oh shit, he doesn't understand our rules". You're either not paying attention, not thinking about it much, or just trying to find ways to justify a point of view that has no relationship with reality. And again, they would have been within their rights to just kill him as soon as he arrived. He wasn't invited, he wasn't an official emessary, he was told before he left to see Medb that his best bet was to just turn around and go home. If you really want to hate the Alfar that's fine - but they haven't given MC any real reason to hate them. He did a stupid thing by going to visit them, he was warned that it was a stupid thing to do and did it anyway - and then was saved by his own actions (unless you decided to play it especially stupid.)
First of all, I don't care how alien the Alfar are, the idea that the only way to refuse a duel is to let the aggrieved party kill you is asinine. Sure, Finnabair would technically be guilty of murder if she didn't pull her punch at the last second, but it would be a little late for the MC to care about it at that point. So right off the bat the Alfar's legal system is already on the thinnest of ice possible.

But beyond that, you cannot have it both ways: if the Alfar are such a litigious society that assaulting someone under a flag of truce is acceptable the instant his protection expires, then they're also litigious enough to recognize that the MC's verbal refusal to duel is in fact a refusal to duel - or at least tell him what else he needs to do to make that refusal formal. Medb - and Ailill - did no such thing. They were happy to turn a blind eye to his attempted refusal and allow the challenge to hang around until obvious happened, at which point it was tragically too late for the duel to be stopped.

Sorry, I don't buy that this outcome could somehow come as a surprise to them. And again, the letter of the law suddenly got *very* flexible AFTER Finnabair spectacularly failed to kill the MC.

Lastly, if you consider turning a blind eye to attempted murder then arresting the MC when he manages to defend himself "no reason" to hate them, I don't know what to tell you. I finally played through the "kill Finnabair" branch, and frankly the notion that the elves have the unmitigated gall to not only detain him but to tell him he should "be thankful [he's] still alive" for something they FORCED him to do is, in a word, outrageous. [EDIT : Oh right, I forgot about the interrogation and death mark; they did that, too!]

I agree the MC was stupid to go to Alfheimr (though I dispute that he was told it was stupid to go there; Kari implicitly told it was a good idea, AND explicitly told him that the Alfar would not be a great danger). But just because it was stupid doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to kill him for it, much less punish him for refusing to die like a nice victim. I'm asking sincerely: if the Alfar haven't done enough to earn his ire at that point, is there anything the Alfar could have done that would justify hatred?
 
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adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
226
340
Edit: It's also worth noting that you're only the second human they've allowed to stay there at all. The first was Medb's adopted brother (and former owner of your sword) who arrived as an infant and died fighting for the Templars.
This is speculative bullshit that you're making up because it's just the only one brought up.

Look, I get it, you have an insanely unrealistic and psychopathic hate of the Templars for no reason I can see, but that does not mean the Alfar are angels. No one sane is going to buy it.
 

Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
Donor
Jul 12, 2020
10,928
25,824
Well at least they are talking about something else than why Kaija sucks or doesn't suck lol
I hope she at least sucks and blows on the 'love' path ;)
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you Know what ? burn the Alfar and the Templars, ride with Anisa into the sunset .... :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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xapican

Devoted Member
May 11, 2020
10,543
15,975
At least I'm not alone. I like her and she was cute, I didn't want her to die, but not an angel or dating material.
Yeah, Ceolag did an outstanding Job with characterization, with her, by showing her rough (crazy) side and showing her soft and friendly side.
My hunch would be if she stayed in the story, she would have "stolen" the show to at least 3 out of 4 Main girls.
Plus plotwise he needed a strong trigger to let the Alfars go balistic, the scenario is set, MC has to grow up to the challenge.
"A bit too much crazy for me." Which is why I didn't stick my dick in her... Jus' Sayin':rolleyes:
"Sissy"! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

motseer

Engaged Member
Dec 17, 2021
3,727
9,138
Yeah, Ceolag did an outstanding Job with characterization, with her, by showing her rough (crazy) side and showing her soft and friendly side.
My hunch would be if she stayed in the story, she would have "stolen" the show to at least 3 out of 4 Main girls.
Plus plotwise he needed a strong trigger to let the Alfars go balistic, the scenario is set, MC has to grow up to the challenge.


"Sissy"! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
fightinwords.gif
 
4.40 star(s) 56 Votes