- Thread starter Retro
- Start date
In March, she wrote and shared that on her patreon:
Hey!
The update is coming along nicely, from what I see it's coming to be around 30 images big which is not that bad for me for a 2 month update!
I still don't know on which exact scene to focus next, maybe I will make a poll for you to decide on a character in a few days to make that Bishop tier a little bit more useful!
Thank you for being here, it means a lot for me!
Thank you
Didn't know about the render count, yiikes.. tbf around 30 in 2 months is not bad at all, it's far beyond abyssmal as far as productivity goes. Sounds like I'd skip this patch too then, saw no reason to go through the last one and this seems like more of the same, unfortunate. Cheers
DanThaMan
Engaged Member
- Jun 25, 2017
- 3,690
- 7,943
jordanja
Newbie
- Apr 8, 2021
- 80
- 731
Futa on Female and Futa on Futa are best but occasionally Futa on Femboy can be good too.
Axel34
Active Member
- Jan 5, 2019
- 841
- 1,052
Futa-on-Femboy! Technically it's "Futa-on-Male" option, but many recognises very different esthetic behind it.
I completely agree with you, it's ridiculous.
Game development has been dragging on for years, it's unbelievable. The worst thing is that the game has crazy potential, but right now, it is still too empty, and it's not with content every eight months that things are going to get better. It's depressing.
I personally disagree.
30 renders in 2 months is not that bad when you take Alishia's render quality into account.
Renders, and art in general, takes exponentially more time with the amount of detail you put into your work.
Sure you can throw a render together in a few minutes by popping in a camera, a pre-made environment, and a few characters with preset poses, but that's not how Alishia works.
I feel like people on this forum are way too used to (and comfortable with) devs that pop a 100 bland renders a month.
Throw the scene together.
Mind your composition, add time.
Mind your lighting, add time.
Customize your characters (beyond chosing their hair and some clothes), add time.
Properly pose your characters, add time.
Use cloth simulation for your character's clothing (if needed), maybe some sculpting, add time.
A few tries to assemble all that properly, add time.
A proper render with *actually* good lighting, composition, posing and such can easily take a whole day to make.
Take into account that you're also writing, programming... An update with 30 renders isn't actually bad.
30 renders in 2 months is not that bad when you take Alishia's render quality into account.
Renders, and art in general, takes exponentially more time with the amount of detail you put into your work.
Sure you can throw a render together in a few minutes by popping in a camera, a pre-made environment, and a few characters with preset poses, but that's not how Alishia works.
I feel like people on this forum are way too used to (and comfortable with) devs that pop a 100 bland renders a month.
Throw the scene together.
Mind your composition, add time.
Mind your lighting, add time.
Customize your characters (beyond chosing their hair and some clothes), add time.
Properly pose your characters, add time.
Use cloth simulation for your character's clothing (if needed), maybe some sculpting, add time.
A few tries to assemble all that properly, add time.
A proper render with *actually* good lighting, composition, posing and such can easily take a whole day to make.
Take into account that you're also writing, programming... An update with 30 renders isn't actually bad.
I suggest you develop your thoughts, for example, show me a game with equivalent render quality that has a bigger render output than Alishia's. Then I'll change my mind.
The only one that comes to mind for me is Moochie's Photo Hunt, but she relies a lot on Photoshop to improve how her lighting looks, if I'm not mistaken
As for the other laugh-react bros above, I'd bet you didn't understand half of what I said.
While it's true that Alishia's render quality is above average, atleast for the initial releases, she had a few in the last three patches where quality is serverly slipping.. You'd be hard pressed to find a dev with a lower output, I can't think of a single one of the top of my head..
JOHN and AWAM (similar quality) for instance which are both notoriously slow projects still outproduce her by miles. Tbf I'd say both of those are atrocious too when it comes to productivity pacing..
I guarantee everyone understood what you wrote, you're just that far off the mark, hence the laughs. We appreciate the entertainment though, no offence
I would ask you which render you're talking about when you tell me Alishia's render quality is slipping, but the fact that that you put AWAM and "similar quality" next to each other when speaking about Alishia's renders leads me to believe that you lack the basic aestethic requirements to understand my point.While it's true that Alishia's render quality is above average, atleast for the initial releases, she had a few in the last three patches where quality is serverly slipping.. You'd be hard pressed to find a dev with a lower output, I can't think of a single one of the top of my head..
JOHN and AWAM (similar quality) for instance which are both notoriously slow projects still outproduce her by miles. Tbf I'd say both of those are atrocious too when it comes to productivity pacing..
I guarantee everyone understood what you wrote, you're just that far off the mark, hence the laughs. We appreciate the entertainment though, no offence
I can't speak of JOHN and AWAM's outputs as I don't follow any of those projects so I'll just take your word for it, but just know that when I speak about "popping in a camera, a pre-made environment, and a few characters with preset poses" AWAM is exactly the kind of project I speak of.
Now I would ask you if you've ever even opened DAZ, but I think we both know the answer to that.
No offence.
If I ever bother to DL it again I'll be sure to extract you a few really low effort ones, np.
In terms of render quality, smoothness, they're about on par. They both have faults ofc, some faulty anatomy, off expression face, undercooked/grainy renders, but but slightly above average, average refering to this site obv.. as a matter of personal eastethic preference I favour Alishia but that besides the point.
Nope, never opened DAZ. It's obv completely irrelevant to the discussion but by all means if it gives you a sense of validation, have at it, my treat
Yeah okay, thanks for the confirmation, you don't know what you're talking about.If I ever bother to DL it again I'll be sure to extract you a few really low effort ones, np.
In terms of render quality, smoothness, they're about on par. They both have faults ofc, some faulty anatomy, off expression face, undercooked/grainy renders, but but slightly above average, average refering to this site obv.. as a matter of personal eastethic preference I favour Alishia but that besides the point.
Nope, never opened DAZ. It's obv completely irrelevant to the discussion but by all means if it gives you a sense of validation, have at it, my treat
Lighting, composition, posing, they're all part of the render's aesthetic value, so the fact that you believe talking about it is beside the point" when talking about how much time a render takes to make is one more dumb take to add to your deck.
Also yeah, never having opened DAZ is "obviously irrelevant" to assessing how much time making each step to producing a render takes. Very smart opinion.
TheLecher
Well-Known Member
- Nov 21, 2018
- 1,567
- 2,712
Different artists work at different speeds, that's true. But 30 renders in 2 months is pathetically slow, even for high quality work. I'll give some examples, along with average outputs, later in this post.
I am someone who has defended Alishia several times in the past, and may defend her again in the future. And I've been active in this thread (and in Alishia's Discord server) pretty much from the beginning of development for this game, so I have a pretty good understanding of her capabilities. But I'm not going to resort to making absurd statements to defend her. And to suggest that 30 renders in 2 months is not bad for an experienced digital artist is beyond all belief. If Alishia had just learned Daz a couple of months ago, that might be believable, but she's been working in Daz for years.
All of that being said, I'll go on record right now as not being bothered by the proposed size of the update. Even though it's a pathetically small output, I would be fine with 30 images every two months, or even every three months, if we could just get consistent releases. If she was releasing new content every two or three months, I would be okay with updates of that size.
Do these renders look "bland" to you?
Lighting, composition, posing, DoF? All top notch, and all done from scratch. Those renders are from a developer named PaleGrass, and he has consistently averaged 290 renders per month for the past two years.
Or how about these renders?
Those renders are from a developer named Ketzal, and he has an even higher output. He averages between 300 and 350 renders per month.
Now, I'll grant you that those two have exceptionally high outputs. They work very fast, and they're both workaholics, pretty much never taking a break.
But take a look at the work done by Quonix, if you want a more reasonable standard for comparison. His work is of a lower quality than Alishia's, but it's still fairly decent, and he averages 180 renders per month. Or take a look at the work done by Lazy Monkey. Despite his name, he's been pretty consistent in his work. On average, he puts out a new update every two or three months. The smallest contained 160 renders, and the largest had 360. And the quality of his work is pretty close to Alishia's. Some would say his work is better. Other's would say Alishia's is better. But an honest person would have to admit that they're pretty close.
And that's just four examples. I could easily keep going.
All of the developers I named above are also writing and programming.
You've now been shown. Have you changed your mind?
-Edited for spelling.
Last edited:
I think you've summed up the problem. The updates are far too rare and each time they are almost empty.
I can understand that game development can take a long time and that sometimes content drags on being released. But she's been working on it for 5 years now and it's still as empty as ever.
If she really doesn't want to develop the game any more, she should abandon it, which will save everyone time.
Yes I have, thank you for taking the time to provide me with examples.
Although for the record, my main point wasn't as much as defending Alishia's work output, but more like pointing out that 90% (if not more) of the people that give her crap about her work output don't know what they're talking about.
I believe that, and it's the same with most things, if you don't have any experience making games, or making renders, you just don't have the tools to assess on a dev's work output with such confidence.
And I'm not really casting the stone at those guys, (or at least I wouldn't have if they hadn't been so passive-agressive) because I'm talking from experience. I've been there.
TheLecher
Well-Known Member
- Nov 21, 2018
- 1,567
- 2,712
You're welcome.
It's true that a lot of people who criticize developers don't have any idea of what is involved in developing a game.
She still wants to develop the game. There are times when she's very enthusiastic about it. But she doesn't have the mental toughness or emotional stability that a game developer really needs to be successful, long term. She gets depressed, and then she works less. And the fact that she's not getting things done, and is missing deadlines, makes her more depressed, and then she works less again. And so on. She goes into spirals of depression and non-productivity for weeks at a time. At least, that's what I've drawn from some of the things she's said on Discord.
In all honesty, without pulling any punches, she doesn't have the discipline or determination that are needed to see large-scale creative projects through from start to finish. But she does have the creativity, the artistic vision, and the artistic talent. And maybe, if she sticks with it, she'll eventually learn the discipline and determination. So there's hope for her, if she doesn't quit.
In the meantime, she still sucks at meeting deadlines, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here. For those who find that too frustrating, there are lots of other games to play. For those who are willing to wait and see, I'd just say, keep your fingers crossed.
Gunizz
Well-Known Member
- Aug 9, 2017
- 1,159
- 3,081
I agree that Alisha skills are among the best, and also that the production quantity is very low if she thinks about her game as a business and not a hobby.
Stoper and Ketzal are also top artists, Stoper being much slower than the latter but still more productive than Alishia.
We have also to admit that most people do not care about the quality, it has just to be a bit over mediocrity than other aspects have more weight. Look at Being a DIK, renderings are made very quickly and with many posing errors but nobody really cares because the overall VN is really well done and fun to play.
I enjoy visual graphics and I'm quite good at analysing pictures, because I am into photography and art, so I really appreciate the few skilled developers that produce HQ renderings. But I think we are a very small minority, many people have a different approach to VNs, tastes and expectations. I constantly see bad renderings in VNs being acclaimed for their quality.
1800 Mr. Tourture
Well-Known Member
- Jun 10, 2017
- 1,178
- 2,198
i always figured she approached it more as a hobby. dev time is extremely slow because she has a life and only works on it occasionally. shes said as much in posts before years ago. idk if shes still active here so i cant ask her again