Ren'Py The Regional Manager [v0.171] [Horizontical Studio]

[Lucky4U]

Go visit the Taffy Tales thread and see the hatred people can have for AI (In that case I'm one of them, but mostly because of the jarring differences between art from one moment to the next). and the AI mistakes can get pretty big with character having extra "arms", limbs bending in weird places, weird dimensions etc, it definitely isn't limited the one little error. (It's only only case and it might be a case that, that Dev was simply bad at AI or the program he is using is Bad, but you do get a sense of public opinion)

I see. So AI can't yet create a sequence of pics, ie, a visual story. Hmm, Makes sense. If you find it horrible then I will most certainly find it horrible. But I think AI will become capable of creating proper visual stories in about 2 years. Will see.

 

[Stil996]

I see. So AI can't yet create a sequence of pics, ie, a visual story. Hmm, Makes sense. But I think it will become capable of doing that in about 2 years. Will see.

I couldn't testify about AI ability to create a sequence of pictures one way or the other, that particular Dev doesn't seem to be able too, I have no idea if that is a problem with him or the technology... He has a track record of inconsistent images so it may well just be him, but he is using his own art as a basis for the AI so I feel it should be more consistent that most, though I mostly pointed that thread out because it had a lot of people posting various arguments for/against AI along with a number of images dissected for flaws that might have been interesting to you... though a lot may have been nuked by now, so I don't know.
Speaking of which this is probably going off topic so, sorry HorizonticalS for clogging your thread.

 

[Lucky4U]

this is probably going off topic so, sorry HorizonticalS for clogging your thread.

Well, I don't think it is, quite the contrary, I think this is one of the most important discussions we could possibly have as HorizonticalS himself posted the AI images that he has created so I think even he probably believes that AI-CG is the future.
So I think we should discuss this more deeply infact.

I couldn't testify about AI ability to create a sequence of pictures one way or the other, that particular Dev doesn't seem to be able too, I have no idea if that is a problem with him or the technology... He has a track record of inconsistent images so it may well just be him, but he is using his own art as a basis for the AI so I feel it should be more consistent that most, though I mostly pointed that thread out because it had a lot of people posting various arguments for/against AI along with a number of images dissected for flaws that might have been interesting to you... though a lot may have been nuked by now, so I don't know.

I checked that thread out. Hadn't played that game before and not planning to either(don't like the characters), but I wanted to see what people had to say. Read the last 12-13 pages of comments and didn't really see all that much complaint. People are more angry about NTR over there than they are about AI, even for NTR it's even split. Half in favor and half not in favor. Regarding AI, I saw very few people complaining over there. Didn't see any example images posted by people that you mention so probably got nuked by mods. If that dev had already been making terrible images before then the AI is just going to learn from those images and recreate the spirit of it so those same issues will be replicated in all the future AI generated content.
Seeing the response over there, I am actually more optimistic now that AI might soon be able to create visual stories properly, maybe 7-8 more months.
I would suggest HorizonticalS to jump on the AI bandwagon as well as this user generated CG might soon become a relic of the past. A human, no matter how talented, can simply not compete.

 

[Stil996]

I checked that thread out. Hadn't played that game before and not planning to either(don't like the characters), but I wanted to see what people had to say. Read the last 12-13 pages of comments and didn't really see all that much complaint. People are more angry about NTR over there than they are about AI, even for NTR it's even split. Half in favor and half not in favor. Regarding AI, I saw very few people complaining over there. Didn't see any example images posted by people that you mention so probably got nuked by mods. If that dev had already been making terrible images before then the AI is just going to learn from those images and recreate the spirit of it so those same issues will be replicated in all the future AI generated content.
Seeing the response over there, I am actually more optimistic now that AI might soon be able to create visual stories properly, maybe 7-8 more months.
I would suggest HorizonticalS to jump on the AI bandwagon as well as this user generated CG might soon become a relic of the past. A human, no matter how talented, can simply not compete.

the last 12-13 pages mean nothing bud (that's only 5 days worth of comments, the last update was June and the AI started last Dec), use the search function for "AI" and you'll get about 420 comments that managed to survive nuking, and you're unlikely to find many (if any) that aren't negative (so you can imagine what the Nuked ones were like)
(NTR also means nothing, that is an ever present source of bumph).

[This is the last time I'm going to refer to this other thread here... If you want to continue on this subject then PM me]

I Hope HorizonticalS stays clear of AI for now except for the occasional "hobby" images, AI might seem like a good idea on the surface and might even become workable in due course... I expect it will become an endless source of poor quality work that will taint even the talented Devs who try to use it, and will remain like that right up till the moment our new AI overlords seize control.

 

[Lucky4U]

Stil996,
Count Morado {Very smart man, almost a mod over there}, This is what he says::=> Apparently there are more who either don't care, don't mind, or actually like the AI art. I don't agree, but people simply looking for spank bank material don't need art... just smut, even AI smut.

But yea, I read plenty of comments now to see what you mean. I agree with you now. BUT, I think HorizonticalS should get ready for when AI-CG becomes advanced enough to replace human made CG. Maybe 7-8 months. Just my suggestion.

I expect it will become an endless source of poor quality work that will taint even the talented Devs who try to use it, and will remain like that right up till the moment our new AI overlords seize control.

lol, I completely agree. I think this is the last election and will very likely be rigged. After this, what most humans say or think or do will very likely be irrelevant. Just my opinion.
Regarding other devs using AI, I don't really care much about other devs or games as this is the only thread that I actually comment on. I don't comment on any other game/thread on here. In my opinion, most games on here are pretty generic anyways so I am basically waiting on AI-CG to take off and then I will pay attention to other games as well.

 

[Stil996]

Stil996,
Count Morado {Very smart man, almost a mod over there},

[Citation Needed]

This is what he says::=> Apparently there are more who either don't care, don't mind, or actually like the AI art. I don't agree, but people simply looking for spank bank material don't need art... just smut, even AI smut.

If you are going to quote someone the quote them properly with a link to their post so people can get context.

1. What you posted was out of context because as a regular on that thread I can assure you that very few people posted neutral/positive things about AI, it was almost exclusively Hate posts.
   It's possible the Silent majority don't care, which is possibly what he meant but that's impossible to measure with the facts at hand.
2. Count Morado is Member no different from anyone else (other than his insistence on responding to every post he sees), his OPINION is his opinion, with no specialist knowledge beyond playing that game a lot.

 

[Lucky4U]

It's possible the Silent majority don't care, which is possibly what he meant but that's impossible to measure with the facts at hand.

Hmm, how about the fact that the dev of that game is going ahead with AI-CG?
The fact that the dev of that game is also making more money than he was before?
If the response was exclusively negative, as you say it was, then he would have dumped AI-CG? right? wouldn't he have?
So, If he is going ahead with it then it's basically the biggest proof you could possibly have that AI-CG was what the majority wanted? Isn't it?

 

[Stil996]

Hmm, how about the fact that the dev of that game is going ahead with AI-CG?
The fact that the dev of that game is also making more money than he was before?
If the response was exclusively negative, as you say it was, then he would have dumped AI-CG? right? wouldn't he have?
So, If he is going ahead with it then it's basically the biggest proof you could possibly have that AI-CG was what the majority wanted? Isn't it?

You fail to score logic points here. I said the response "HERE" was negative... Full Stop! that's not open for debate.. I witnessed it.

• That Dev does not live here, go ask The Count he'll tell you too, the opinions expressed on this Site have no effect on him
• I have no idea what the response was on Discord, I expect it was similar, but I honestly don't know and also don't know how selective that group is, I imagine it's heavily biased to a select group of "yes" men, devote fans, with many dissenting being banned... Again I don't know the facts of that, I'm not a fan of discord & rarely use it.
• A set of Numbers on their own mean nothing, you claim numbers going up mean everyone likes it, I tend to think they'd go up a lot faster if he had kept to his original art work, right now the new membership is slightly outpacing the members quitting in disgust. Another big factor that might be affecting the increasing stats is that the last update finally included the NTR he has been promising for the last 5 years, significantly increasing his market base to include the NTR Fans he has been neglecting.

Bud you did it again... you tricked me into talking about another thread... I'm done with this. don't expect a response to anything else that requires debating stuff focused on anothers Devs Project. Take that to PM if it matters to you.

 

[Stil996]

[Trolling Snipped]

And I actually thought you were legit for a moment

 

[Lucky4U]

And I actually thought you were legit for a moment

Well, how am I wrong? I don't understand you. Let me dissect every single one of your points one by one:

I said the response "HERE" was negative... Full Stop! that's not open for debate.. I witnessed it.

It is open for debate because most people "here" are freeloaders who aren't paying for the development costs of the game or paying for the developer to put food on his table. So what really matters is what the people who are actually paying for the development of the game think, others are irrelevent. So what do the people who are actually paying think?

• That Dev does not live here, go ask The Count he'll tell you too, the opinions expressed on this Site have no effect on him

I said Count Morado is a very smart man because I find his posts very informative and he seems like a brilliant man wasting all his time replying to idiots and helping them navigate a garbage game like Taffy Tales. I wish he would come here instead and contribute all his hardwork on this game/thread instead. He is a gem in my opinion.
Like I said, the opinions of this site are the opinions of freeloaders so why would the dev listen to the people who aren't paying him and worse, are stealing his stuff? lol I think this is a good site to get feedback on your game but that's about it. I don't think devs should change the direction of their games based on what people say on here. Just my opinion.

• I have no idea what the response was on Discord, I expect it was similar, but I honestly don't know and also don't know how selective that group is, I imagine it's heavily biased to a select group of "yes" men, devote fans, with many dissenting being banned... Again I don't know the facts of that, I'm not a fan of discord & rarely use it.

I completely agree! I think so as well.

• A set of Numbers on their own mean nothing, you claim numbers going up mean everyone likes it, I tend to think they'd go up a lot faster if he had kept to his original art work,

Well, Taffy tales isn't a small fry newbie game. It's a very popular game, been around for ages. So whatever growth he was gonna get, he had already gotten it. If the numbers didn't go up all this time then they weren't gonna go any higher in the future either. He had hit his peak.

right now the new membership is slightly outpacing the members quitting in disgust. Another big factor that might be affecting the increasing stats is that the last update finally included the NTR he has been promising for the last 5 years, significantly increasing his market base to include the NTR Fans he has been neglecting.

Not "slightly". It's a pretty big bump. His numbers have gone up by a lot. So I think his decision is working for him.

Stil996, Look man, I like you. You seem like a smart guy and I like smart people. You contribute a loooot to this thread and I really respect that. I am just trying to get you to see my point of view because I am not gonna be here, debating all this afterwards but you will be. So what you think will matter a lot more than what I think and your views will help guide the path forward for this game so that's why I am trying to explain all this to you.

 

[HorizonticalS]

Also, feel free to talk about The Regional Manager if you want to.

 

[Stil996]

[snip]

Filling a thread with discussion about another Devs project is disrespectful, it's like bringing your own food to a restaurant. Check out the rules if that's not enough for you, Rule #1 for On-topic threads covers it.
I've mentioned it several times and even offered to continue this discussion in PM if you really needed to hash it out but you are still filling this thread with off-topic posts.

 

[Lucky4U]

Also, feel free to talk about The Regional Manager if you want to.

Filling a thread with discussion about another Devs project is disrespectful, it's like bringing your own food to a restaurant. Check out the rules if that's not enough for you, Rule #1 for On-topic threads covers it.
I've mentioned it several times and even offered to continue this discussion in PM if you really needed to hash it out but you are still filling this thread with off-topic posts.

Well, the way I saw it. I was actually discussing the pros and cons of HorizonticalS going with AI-CG for "THIS" game. So in my brain, I was just trying to hash that out with Stil996. He was the one speaking against it and I was the one speaking for it and we were debating whether this game should also go the AI-CG route.
So that's why I was discussing that other game with Stil996 who himself pointed that game out to me to highlight the negatives of AI-CG whereas when I actually checked that thread out, I only saw the positives of going with AI-CG.
Atleast that's how I saw the conversation, maybe others didn't see it this way and I do apologize if I wasn't clear about this and was going off-topic.

 

[CircaAD]

He/She/It's been on my ignore list for ages.

RM is still one of my favorite games, and hands down the one I've replayed the most. I'm looking forward to the new update!

 

[Stil996]

HorizonticalS
Do you feel like giving some clues about which of the placeholder characters is getting drawn into the story next?

I've been looking forward to Geri for a long time now, but I'm also really interested to see what we will be able to do with the shrink (Rose?), We need more MILFs

 

[HorizonticalS]

HorizonticalS
Do you feel like giving some clues about which of the placeholder characters is getting drawn into the story next?

I've been looking forward to Geri for a long time now, but I'm also really interested to see what we will be able to do with the shrink (Rose?), We need more MILFs

Sure.
Right now I'm trying to get some progress done with the office girls who had little content (mainly Rachel and Layla, who both got more content in recent builds, and soon Miko who will get some in 0.18 I think), I'm also trying to get some "Coming soon" and long awaited stuffs to progress (Hospital content, Lara date, Claire's 2nd photoshoot... should all be in 0.17). As for Milfs, I feel like I should give Alice more content before I move on to others (in 0.18 if all goes well). And when I do, I think it would be more convenient for me to start with Ophelia and her daughter Allison.
As for Rose, I do have plans for her but I think I need to get things cleared out before I introduce her.
Same for Geri (whom I guess I could include in the hospital content things before we learn more about her, but I need to slightly redesign her first, I'll probably make a poll for that.).

As for other Milfs, Whitney is the most likely to get things soon I think.

 

[Stil996]

Sure.
Right now I'm trying to get some progress done with the office girls who had little content (mainly Rachel and Layla, who both got more content in recent builds, and soon Miko who will get some in 0.18 I think), I'm also trying to get some "Coming soon" and long awaited stuffs to progress (Hospital content, Lara date, Claire's 2nd photoshoot... should all be in 0.17). As for Milfs, I feel like I should give Alice more content before I move on to others (in 0.18 if all goes well). And when I do, I think it would be more convenient for me to start with Ophelia and her daughter Allison.
As for Rose, I do have plans for her but I think I need to get things cleared out before I introduce her.
Same for Geri (whom I guess I could include in the hospital content things before we learn more about her, but I need to slightly redesign her first, I'll probably make a poll for that.).

As for other Milfs, Whitney is the most likely to get things soon I think.

sounds good
I hope you don't change Geri too much, this game needs a redhead & I love the whole cute fuzzy hair deal she has going on.

 

[HorizonticalS]

sounds good
I hope you don't change Geri too much, this game needs a redhead & I love the whole cute fuzzy hair deal she has going on.

The hair won't change.

 

[Lucky4U]

I've even offered to continue this discussion in PM if you really needed to hash it out.

Well, it's pointless to hash this out with you in a PM as my entire point of even starting that conversation was to get us moving towards the AI-CG path and only the dev can make that call.
I mean, think about it, why would I waste my time talking about a game that I don't even play and think of as garbage? Makes no sense right? until you see the whole picture.
So our entire debate was for HorizonticalS to see to maybe make him see the benefits of jumping on the AI-CG bandwagon.

Well, the way I saw it. I was actually discussing the pros and cons of HorizonticalS going with AI-CG for "THIS" game. I was just trying to hash that out with Stil996. He was the one speaking against it and I was the one speaking for it and we were debating whether this game should also go the AI-CG route.
So that's why I was discussing that other game with Stil996 who himself pointed that game out to me to highlight the negatives of AI-CG whereas when I actually checked that thread out, I only saw the positives of going with AI-CG.

HorizonticalS, so I guess that's a "no" on the AI-CG path forward? If it's a no then I think you might be making a mistake as this human made CG is not going to last for very long and will very likely be deprecated and if you miss the boat, trying to catchup will be very hard afterwards. But upto you though.
But If I were you, I would jump on the AI-CG bandwagon, not enough time left, maybe 7-8 months for the tsunami of AI content to come.

 

[HorizonticalS]

There are about 8 AI renders on there--8 characters-- and I don't like even 1. All are UGLY!! Disappointed.

HorizonticalS, so I guess that's a "no" on the AI-CG path forward? If it's a no then I think you might be making a mistake as this human made CG is not going to last for very long and will very likely be deprecated and if you miss the boat, trying to catchup will be very hard afterwards. But upto you though.
But If I were you, I would jump on the AI-CG bandwagon, not enough time left, maybe 7-8 months for the tsunami of AI content to come.

If you were me, you would also find it ironical and maybe even possibly quite irritating that the one guy who bothered to answer this thread to complain about the free AI renders I posted, calling them all UGLY in all caps, is also the same guy who repeatedly hacked this thread to push for the use of AI renders and lecture me about my mistake if I don't use AI renders.