- Thread starter DarthSeduction
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- Sep 27, 2017
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- Sep 10, 2018
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A lot of these games are primarily played by guys, guys who immediately self-insert as the male character so these guys play your game and they get greeted by a detailed account of their father facefucking them and them choking on his cum with the cherry ontop being that their sister and obvious love interest is the one who saves them. Beyond that the story is fantastic and I commend you for endevouring to create an adult game with a decent story but I question the necessity of the handling of that pearlescent introduction and can hardly blame people for the hate they are going to throw your way because of it.
This is not intended to be a self insert. You are not Alex. You are playing as Alex. I'm sorry if this is beyond your sensibilities, but I'm not going to change the story because some people aren't going to be comfortable. I do intend the second release to give people the option to skip some of the more graphic parts of it, just to stop some of the complaints. But the story itself is not going to change. Sometimes men get raped by other men. That rape and the feelings that come from it are very important to the story as a whole. We aren't done with it. And while you won't have to see it again, the subject weighs heavily on the characters and a huge chunk of the next release is dealing directly with it.
- Aug 23, 2018
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I for one am delighted to see that you will not become another Dev who bows to pressure and misses out on a chance to tell a good story just to appease the complainers, and although you didn't intend a 'self insert' (from what I've read, on this and other threads) a lot of men seem to do just that, is that good or bad? I'm sure they'll let you know. As disturbing as "that" scene was, it is (I think) pivotal to the plot and therefore needed to be addressed, will I skip future scenes? I'll have to wait to find out, between now and then I shall wait patiently.
- Sep 30, 2018
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If they throw hate torwards the Dev just because they can't take it, then they shouldn't play games in this genre at all because they take it way to serious then.
I honestly hope that nothing will get changed because this is a part of this game and if someone feels so offended by it he doesn't have to play it.
- Aug 23, 2018
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to DarthSeduction, Just wanted to thank you for this game and to wish (as well as all the Staff of the F95Zone) A very Merry Christmas and a bright New Year.
- Sep 10, 2018
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I abhor censorship in all it's forms and you should do whatever you like with the game and it's story. I hate seeing game developers bite their tongues because of patreon and content modified because of puritan prudes that effectively wreck it for everyone but that being said this particular choice raised an eyebrow eyebrow for me. Firstly because I was aware of your more vanilla tastes from other posts on the board so that made this even more unexpected, secondly because It seems like it was designed to be offensive as humanely possible for the reasons previously listed, Thirdly because point two makes it come off as a cheap and tacky shock value tactic. Fourthly because I know now this is your second time using sexual assault of a minor as a cheap plot point in one of your games except this time with the genders reversed. Many of these combined factors seems more like disrespecting those who have been molested as kids than getting real with the fact men rape men.
So people should take emotion driven VNs as jokes or not very seriously? That's kind of the very point of the genre.
Your second argument would hold more water if people knew what they were getting into. How many people were expecting the rape? and how many people take the time to read a games disclaimer screen? This is one of the only ones that has something other than don't play if you're not 18.
As I said before you can do what you want with the game and you should but I also reserve the right to think you're a fuckwit for it.
As the disclaimer stated, it isn't fetish content. It is there to serve plot. And I wouldn't call my tastes vanilla. While I'm not a fan of noncon I am a sadist, I am all up in that incest, and quite like the corruption elements of NTR.
Which reasons? I ask you to repeat them because I don't want to misunderstand you.
You can't really say that until you see the entire story. The purpose of this rape is actually purely because I wanted a story that gives a real justification for the development of incestuous feelings. That is not something that just happens, especially not in twins. However, as I alluded to heavily in the game, and stated explicitly many times here in the thread, this isn't a minor point. It's the driving motivation for everything that happens.
I don't have another character who was molested as a kid. I don't know where you get that from. Maybe you're referring to Erin, who was abused, but that abuse was not sexual. And again, not for shock value, but as an exploration of who her character is and why.
Seriously, yes. Personally, absolutely not. The big problem people have, all over the gaming scene currently, is the amount to which they take these games personally. Don't internalize the events of a game, don't take personally the things that happen. Maintain a level of separation.
After this and the few screens leading up to it, you really have no excuse. I tagged it with rape, made this huge disclaimer. Even the Overview addresses a traumatic event that brings the characters together. There's nothing more I can do.
- Sep 10, 2018
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If it was there to serve plot can you explain to me how it was distinguishable from a gay non-con H-scene?
I described it as offensive as humanely possible because:
1. the scene appears first in the narrative, no gradual lead-in straight off the bat which increases shock value
2. the effort that went into the detail of it both in the colorful descriptive language and
3. the visuals of the scene, you experience from the pov of the rapist policeman with renders for each thrust into his mouth plus the thoughts of the policeman, visuals of the eyes opening during the act etc etc lots of details
4. Of the two choices for rape of the twins, you went with the male twin I assume because it would violate expectations and generate more shock.
5. The rape was over the top dramatic with Alex choking on daddies jizz, being sleep raped which is a layer added to non-con H-games for extra impact of the violation/them at their most vulnerable and cum dribbling out of his mouth as he hugged his sister and mother looked on.
6. Not only did the rape go down but his sister has to witness it and save him, further demasculating alexander and then his own mother sees firsthand the clear evidence of what happened in part in the form of dad's jizz.
There are many other potential tragedies that would have worked as driving plot points but you went with this one.
Emotional investment is what separates characterization driven H-games from the rest, idea is to emotionally invest in the characters.. emotional investment and personal investment go hand in hand. It's the same as the difference between a one night stand and sex with your girlfriend or wife, the sex is better because you're emotionally and as a consequence personally invested.
The last point you made is probably the biggest cop out. The 'traumatic experience' from the overview in no way gives fair warning or justice to players about what they are in for. The disclaimer was a decent effort in that regard except people rarely read them. All that was require to circumvent this annoyance was a straight up clear warning ingame prior to the event or the option to skip it with details of what occurred.
One last thing is that you claim people shouldn't self-insert and should maintain a level of separation but you're fully aware that they don't which makes me wonder if there isn't a part of you as the sadist that you are having a little mental or literal wank over this? Who knows as a sadist myself I might be doing the same thing.
I described it as offensive as humanely possible because:
1. the scene appears first in the narrative, no gradual lead-in straight off the bat which increases shock value
2. the effort that went into the detail of it both in the colorful descriptive language and
3. the visuals of the scene, you experience from the pov of the rapist policeman with renders for each thrust into his mouth plus the thoughts of the policeman, visuals of the eyes opening during the act etc etc lots of details
4. Of the two choices for rape of the twins, you went with the male twin I assume because it would violate expectations and generate more shock.
5. The rape was over the top dramatic with Alex choking on daddies jizz, being sleep raped which is a layer added to non-con H-games for extra impact of the violation/them at their most vulnerable and cum dribbling out of his mouth as he hugged his sister and mother looked on.
6. Not only did the rape go down but his sister has to witness it and save him, further demasculating alexander and then his own mother sees firsthand the clear evidence of what happened in part in the form of dad's jizz.
There are many other potential tragedies that would have worked as driving plot points but you went with this one.
Emotional investment is what separates characterization driven H-games from the rest, idea is to emotionally invest in the characters.. emotional investment and personal investment go hand in hand. It's the same as the difference between a one night stand and sex with your girlfriend or wife, the sex is better because you're emotionally and as a consequence personally invested.
The last point you made is probably the biggest cop out. The 'traumatic experience' from the overview in no way gives fair warning or justice to players about what they are in for. The disclaimer was a decent effort in that regard except people rarely read them. All that was require to circumvent this annoyance was a straight up clear warning ingame prior to the event or the option to skip it with details of what occurred.
One last thing is that you claim people shouldn't self-insert and should maintain a level of separation but you're fully aware that they don't which makes me wonder if there isn't a part of you as the sadist that you are having a little mental or literal wank over this? Who knows as a sadist myself I might be doing the same thing.
- Sep 30, 2018
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Stop putting words into my mouth. VN's are games and you shouldn't take games that personal that you get offended by a scene.
I didn't know about that rape, i was surprised about that heavy part but i didn't feel offended by it and no one else should either. But if people want to get offended because of that, why do they play games labeled with RAPE anyway? And if people don't even read the Tags and/or the Disclaimer its pretty much their own fault.
- Sep 27, 2017
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Dear developer, is ok to listen to the community to see how the game is going but don't let them decide how the game is going to be, do your thing and if they don't like it they are free to go invest their time in other stuff.
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas
- Jul 25, 2017
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I am not gay but I have not felt offended by the rape scene, I think we are used to the brother being the protective figure of the sister, but the idea that the sister is the protective figure of the brother is much more interesting in my opinion. I think some people are too sensitive... The author wanted to give a bit of darkness to his story and I think that's fine, if Game of Thrones had no incest, no explicit deaths, not a father fucking the whore of his son, then it would not be so flashy. The author is doing a great job with the story.
- Sep 10, 2018
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I'm not offended, I'm less sensitive than the game dev from the look of his fetishes I'm just pointing out the developer was knowingly having a laugh at the user's expense. A good ol troll with the construction of the intro scene and trying to get him to be honest about it. If you want to thank daddy and gargle his load after he facefucks you then all the more power to you.
- Jan 9, 2018
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You've shared your thoughts over multiple posts and the dev has personally replied - are you done now?
Maybe this game isn't for you; luckily there are plenty of other games with themes that may better cater to your specific interests.
You should go look elsewhere.
- Sep 10, 2018
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My sincerest apologies, I'm not much of a drinker usually but I starting drinking with family then finished off half a litre of jim beam whiskey it being new years eve and apparently turned into a hyper aggressive tard playing devil advocate for no discernible reason. Merry christmas 
- Jun 9, 2017
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Forgive me if I am not remembering it correctly since the game had such a long and chequered development but the original art for that particular scene was a lot more ominous shall we say which was later toned down
Hey dev ! i really like this !
the third pic, where the boy is fingering the girl, is REALLY hot !
love your game, keep it up !
I feel rape in games is often treated in a blase manner. A girl gets raped and fucks the MC within 24 hours and in some cases immediately. That's not how rape victims behave. The rapes themselves vary in graphic content, but in order to ensure that the players felt the intended trauma, I decided to make it graphic. The fact that you are so disgusted by it, that you feel like it was so over the top, actually means I did it right. Rape is not flowers and sunshine. It's brutal, disgusting, and horrifying. Did I want it to shock you just for shock? No, but did I want you to feel something visceral from it? Absolutely. Because if you don't then the entire plot is hollow, empty.
I don't exactly agree. I needed both of them to have a reason to no longer respect the very real psychological barrier against incest that develops in kids between the toddler and puberty years. That isn't something that is easily done. That is why I chose rape, and in particular, a father doing the rape. Incest has a way of breaking that barrier on its own, meaning that whoever got raped was likely to lose their barrier but it was just as important for the other one to be given that, and so, Alexis is forced to kill her own father to save her brother. Her barrier is overcome by breaking the taboo in a different way. Patricide. She literally can't hold family as sacred in her mind anymore.
If I took some time and really thought about ways to do it, I absolutely could, but none of them would have been as clean as this. Funny that I use the word to describe such a messy scene, but 1 night,a few minutes, that's all it took for them to jump over a hurdle that is epigenetically programmed into us.
I can't make you read that either. And personally, I don't think I should have had to give the option to skip it. Posthumously I have the intention to, if nothing else than to avoid this again, but understand, half of what you complain about will still be there. I will not be skipping the entire scene. You will see Alex get mounted, you will see Alexis stumble on the scene and save him, the narration about the cum and the scene where the mother walks in will still be there. This scene is that important.
No. Emotional and personal investment are not the same thing. I did nothing to YOU. I did something to Alex. And while it's 100% correct to feel, it's my intention for you to do so, what Alex felt, it is not my intention for you to come off as personally offended, because I did nothing to you. You need to maintain a level of separation between the two. It's not hard.
I went out of my way to design a game that you wouldn't self insert into. There are 2 protagonists, one male, one female. The male protagonist has a face that you see constantly. I strive for third person perspective in a vast majority of the shots I ask Spawn for. I can't make you choose not to self insert, but I absolutely can make a game where the purpose is not to do so.
How can the rape of a person who was asleep until it was too late and they were pinned beneath their attacker with something shoved down their throat cutting off their oxygen, be emasculating? What was he meant to do? What is wrong with being saved by a woman? How is the gender of the victim more offensive if it's a man? Are men more valuable than women? Is it more ok for a woman to be assaulted than a man?
I'm asking those questions as things you should look into yourself to find a real answer to. Don't take this as an attack. I doubt you're a bad person. I do however think your thought processes are too personalized, driven by fear and ignorance rather than logic and empathy.
I made it Alex because that set the stage. I also, later, have Alex show his comfort with his sexuality in the D&D scene. It isn't Alex for shock value, it isn't Alex to make you more mad than you would be if it was Alexis. No. It's Alex because I wanted it to be clear from the start that Alex isn't 100% straight. That this isn't a game about a macho dude. Does being raped make him less of a man? Fuck no. Does his sexuality make him less of a man? Fuck no. Does the fact that he looks up to a woman as his savior and hero make him less of a man? Fuck no. Alex isn't Heracles, but he isn't supposed to be either.
- Sep 10, 2018
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I could further pick apart your points and drag this out but I never really believed in the fundamental position I was pushing in the first place, I wasn't even offended just smashed for two days, really smashed on the second of those and saw the potential for debate. My apologies again and as other posters have been saying make the game you want to make, tell the story you want to tell, don't need to explain your choices to anyone.