Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

3.50 star(s) 8 Votes

Ambjorn187

Newbie
Sep 9, 2020
82
28
A couple questions about quests and the Demonic seal function:

Do you need every available room (green hatchery, frozen hatchery etc.) and trap or just a hatchery and a trap for the Legendary Lair quest?
Every variant Needed
Are peasant and burgher/princess considered different races for the The Collector quest?
Yes, 4 variants of human:
peasant
burgher
nun
noble
And do they need to be present and in virgin condition at the same time?
Yes
Do special/unique characters count? I have the Dark alva (should be corrected to Dark Alva imo) from the brothel, do I need to keep her a virgin until I get every other race?
No
Well not as unique types your Dark alva count as an alva
If they do not count I think they should get some kind of distinction on their character card to denote them as special character.
:unsure:
In the change_fear function (starting at line 169 in Kingdom.rpy) what does dragon.base_kingdom_seals call? Is that checking difficulty or is it something else?
No idea, that's a mystery even to me. o_O
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
958
Damn, ninja'd. :p

Do you need every available room ... for the Legendary Lair quest?
Yes. It's a high-tier quest.

Are peasant and burgher/princess considered different races for the The Collector quest?
Indeed. The dragon doesn't have a very keen understanding of differences between mortal races, and these females give birth to different eggs, so... :D

And do they need to be present and in virgin condition at the same time?
Yep. Wouldn't be a collection otherwise. I think the dragon even has a comment to remind you when the collecting is complete.

Do special/unique characters count?
They do, but as their 'base' race. There are separate pride achievements for getting all races, all semi-special characters and all unique characters.

should be corrected to Dark Alva imo
Done.

do I need to keep her a virgin until I get every other race?
If you wish. Getting a different elven virgin would be easier, IMO.

...I think they should get some kind of distinction on their character card to denote them as special character.
UI is a pain. :( They already have (somewhat) unique titles.

In the change_fear function (starting at line 169 in Kingdom.rpy) what does dragon.base_kingdom_seals call?
It's a difficulty constant set at game start (in script.rpy), it doesn't call anything. What it does is enforce a minimum number of seals lost per day.
 

Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
It's a difficulty constant set at game start (in script.rpy), it doesn't call anything. What it does is enforce a minimum number of seals lost per day.
Been a while since I dabbled in programming so wrong word choice on my part :oops:. It indeed checks a variable/constant instead of calling a function.

Aren't the max() calls in the change_fear function in Kingdom.rpy pointless for fear > 10, since the max value of Dragon.base_kingdom_seals is 1 at impossible difficulty and you compare it to 2,3 and 5?
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
958
Been a while since I dabbled in programming so wrong word choice on my part
Note that in Python there can be things that look like constants but are actually functions, like dragon.max_wings. :geek: There's probably a fancy programmer name for these, too.

Aren't the max() calls in the change_fear function in Kingdom.rpy pointless for fear > 10, since the max value of Dragon.base_kingdom_seals is 1 at impossible difficulty and you compare it to 2,3 and 5?
Well, max increases the value from 1 to 2,3 or 5, then. What's the problem with that? Apart from demons overrunning the realm, of course. :devilish:
 
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Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
Well, max increases the value from 1 to 2,3 or 5, then. What's the problem with that? Apart from demons overrunning the realm, of course. :devilish:
It seems ineffective and a waste of processing power. It's very likely negligible though.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
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Well, max might be a little slower than pure if/else, but the fear-changing function is really not a very costly one. There are worse uses of max and min, if that's an issue to you.

Edit: Also, I (or someone else) might change the value to be over 1, so this is mainly a form of sanity checking.
 
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Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
Well, max might be a little slower than pure if/else, but the fear-changing function is really not a very costly one.
wasteofpower.png
I meant startin at the marked part where you could just use -= 1/2/3/5.
And for other min/max uses: That's about the only code thing I've looked at to generally remove seal decay for 0 fear.

Edit:
Edit: Also, I (or someone else) might change the value to be over 1, so this mainly is a form of sanity checking.
I think you mean insanity checking, since the seals would decay at the accelerated rate of the lunatic wanting demons to roam the land.
 
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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I meant startin at the marked part where you could just use -= 1/2/3/5.
See the edit.

remove seal decay for 0 fear.
That's a low difficulty thing. :p The in-game reasoning is that there are still some non-dragon-related cultists going around. And the design reason is to discourage turtling and create a challenge that you can't just skip by withdrawing to your cave and subsisting on wild animals.

If you don't want challenge, play on easy. This minimum decay thing is the original reason why I started modding the game, so I feel pretty strongly about it.
 

Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
That's a low difficulty thing. :p The in-game reasoning is that there are still some non-dragon-related cultists going around. And the design reason is to discourage turtling and create a challenge that you can't just skip by withdrawing to your cave and subsisting on wild animals.

If you don't want challenge, play on easy. This minimum decay thing is the original reason why I started modding the game, so I feel pretty strongly about it.
At the moment I prefer the option for the extremely early game plus killing a patrol equals a burned seal, so there is cost associated with winning AND with losing against a patrol from the start. It also increases cost of the first level of poverty.

But I see your point. I just refuse to play on easy. :p

Edit: I forgot to mention I added this after I was down to 400 seals, still relatively weak and the civil war event burned seals like crazy. For a future run I will probably add another requirement of being above 500 or 600 seals, depending on my mood. So the passive drain starts after you did some stuff, but not completely from the beginning.
 
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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At the moment I prefer the option for the extremely early game plus killing a patrol equals a burned seal
Unless you play on impossible, you still lose 3/4 or 1/2 seals in that situation. The cost still exists, even if it isn't as big. And defeating a patrol on the higher difficulty levels is no small feat.

It also increases cost of the first level of poverty.
Poverty is kinda underpowered in the early game as it is. Poverty also shouldn't produce more demon cultists from a story POV.

But I suppose it could be argued your way as well.

I just refuse to play on easy.
There was a guy, what's his moniker... misterjoper, who only played on impossible. :cool:

I forgot to mention I added this after I was down to 400 seals, still relatively weak and the civil war event burned seals like crazy.
How does the civil war affect seals? It kills mobilization for a while, but the thing that actually wastes seals is your reputation.

This is a major point of the early game, do not acquire infamy if you cannot back it up in a fight. The knights ought to get you for that before the seals do, though... :sneaky:

For a future run I will probably add another requirement of being above 500 or 600 seals, depending on my mood. So the passive drain starts after you did some stuff, but not completely from the beginning.
That still goes against the idea of a timer you have to race against and control, since that way you can still turtle and eat deer for ten years. And I've seen savegames of people actually turtling that long...:(

I did a test game on impossible back in... November?, and it was both annoyingly grindy and at the same time quite satisfying to get to a point where I could see that the seals would no longer no doom me if I did not do any mistakes afterwards.
 

Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
How does the civil war affect seals? It kills mobilization for a while, but the thing that actually wastes seals is your reputation.
I was on my way raising infamy for the 250 quest. Given that it's my 2nd try playing I might simply overstimate what is still to come.

This is a major point of the early game, do not acquire infamy if you cannot back it up in a fight. The knights ought to get you for that before the seals do, though... :sneaky:
Speaking of knights: I have killed 2 of those, but only 1 was captured as my plaything. Is that bug or is there a chance they die?

That still goes against the idea of a timer you have to race against and control, since that way you can still turtle and eat deer for ten years. And I've seen savegames of people actually turtling that long...:(
No worries, I disliking turtling as much as passive seal decay. I want to start small for the feeling and the passive decay to basically kick in once I evolved size 2 times, since you are quite limited before that. And I like to think if I manage infamy while being small the kingdom considers demon worshipers a bigger threat than me and goes after them.
Come to think of it, I might link the passive decay to size instead of lost seals. :unsure:

Edit: Might be interesting to play around with for you, too. To make the actual seal change not calculate with the difficulty modifier, but with a current size modifier. So bigger dragon equals bigger seal decay, while leaving the current fear checks intact. To increase difficulty/make it harder to play a larger dragon.
 
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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...I might simply overstimate what is still to come.
Overestimate what? The demon invasion?

Speaking of knights: ... is there a chance they die?
I consider the deaths a case of them either not really being female or fighting till the bitter end. And yes, if they are too strong for the dragon to capture safely, they die.

I want to start small for the feeling and the passive decay to basically kick in once I evolved size 2 times
The problem is that players - not necessarily you - can remain small for years, if they wish. And I personally find it interesting to have this threat looming over my head all the time, forcing me not to waste actions.

Come to think of it, I might link the passive decay to size instead of lost seals.
If that's what you want, you could remove the minimum decay from your favourite difficulty setting and change dragon.min_kingdom_fear_size to kick in faster.

And I like to think if I manage infamy while being small the kingdom considers demon worshipers a bigger threat than me and goes after them.
This has come up before. For the most part, the Kingdom is the demon cultists. It's a popular movement, not some shadowy priesthood trying to kill the dragon and curry favour with infernals. The King can't go after them without inciting at least peasant riots, and possibly a full-on civil war. Which is a worse situation from both an anti-demon and an anti-dragon POV.

And the King does not have the level of control necessary to go after every small-time cultist who gives you that 1/4 seals decay. If he tried to gain that control, the nobility would revolt.

Edit:
Might be interesting to play around with for you, too. To make the actual seal change not calculate with the difficulty modifier, but with a current size modifier.
Already in. Big dragons (starting from impressive) have a natural minimum level of fear that killing off troops can't reduce. For example, the biggest size always has fear equal to at least 10, making you lose at least two seals per day no matter what. :devilish:
 
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Ameise5000

New Member
Jan 11, 2020
12
2
Overestimate what? The demon invasion?
What there still is to do to 'win' the game. Basically I don't want a timer that prevents me from seeing most stuff. If I wanted a 'hard' timer I'd play Ravager.

I consider the deaths a case of them either not really being female or fighting till the bitter end. And yes, if they are too strong for the dragon to capture safely, they die.
Makes sense. I was a bit surprised, but it of course makes sense that not every knight in the kingdom is a maiden in disguise.


If that's what you want, you could remove the minimum decay from your favourite difficulty setting and change dragon.min_kingdom_fear_size to kick in faster.
Yeah, I'll look into this.

This has come up before. For the most part, the Kingdom is the demon cultists. It's a popular movement, not some shadowy priesthood trying to kill the dragon and curry favour with infernals. The King can't go after them without inciting at least peasant riots, and possibly a full-on civil war. Which is a worse situation from both an anti-demon and an anti-dragon POV.
Fair enough. I still don't want to play with passive decay while I'm basically a big snake keeping a low profile.

I'll headcanon it to the archmage and the king working together to negate the decay if they have the time, meaning no fear in the kingdom and no dragon to think about. Possibly just the archmage quietly restoring seals, while the king doesn't demand his attention, since I think I recall you having stated that the archmage is one of the few really against the demons somewhere.
After all, from my understanding you start as a cat-sized snake, not a dangerous dragon.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
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What there still is to do to 'win' the game.
Well, my perspective of winning is a bit skewed, because I think it means I can do whatever I wish, including going for both of the bigger endings. Or not. :sneaky:

If I wanted a 'hard' timer...
The timer is not hard, you can increase it with sacrifices. But it's always there, reminding you that you can't just laze about like Smaug. Look what happened to him, even without a demon invasion!

Fair enough. I still don't want to play with passive decay while I'm basically a big snake keeping a low profile.
Well, you're a snake who has to become a proper dragon ASAP. Or else. :p

Possibly just the archmage quietly restoring seals, while the king doesn't demand his attention, since I think I recall you having stated that the archmage is one of the few really against the demons somewhere.
It's a possible interpretation. My take on this is that since there exist dark archmages, and the Capital needs both protection and someone to keep the politics sane, he really can't go anywhere long enough to matter. It's a pretty common trope, being a mage of awesome power who can't really use it because he'll upset the status quo.

The King is a paranoid narcissist who might be fine with a sword and leading a battle. But as to effective government, he's like most historical kings: useless where it counts.

After all, from my understanding you start as a cat-sized snake, not a dangerous dragon.
But you're the Dark Lady's progeny, and people remember that. Plus, someone might have spread around a few rumours that there's a new dragon about.

Or the more reasonable interpretation: the minimum seal decay is what the cultists perform as a sort of background noise, what with the King being a self-centered asshat and the Kingdom going complacent after the war with the Lady. People would go after them when the seals go down a lot, but with the dragon, they are always thinking "what if it's worth it?"

Edit: Or let me put it this way: the goal of the mod is to survive and prosper as a dragon, overcoming various challenges. It is not to 'experience' the game, because the experience is not particularly deep from a VN or RP point of view. That is, there are lots of better written games with far more consistent and likely nicer art, even ones featuring a monster protagonist. It's basically the same difference as there was between Civ5 and the previous Civs: the former was massively more popular because the default game experience was no longer that of a strategy game. It was 'roleplaying' a rather small culture. Same thing here. Edit2: And DMM is not Civ5 in the above example.
 
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acronon

Newbie
May 24, 2018
17
10
So with all the typing, kicking of ideas around, suggestions, verbal lashings, and hey all the goodness that is in your work; do you have time to make an update, and, if so, could you please give me a hint when? I have been eager for something new regarding this MOD.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
958
do you have time to make an update
when
Dubious before summer. I am still a bit burned out on the mod, and a lot of what needs to be done is rehashing the same old things. :confused:

I have been eager for something new regarding this MOD.
Well, all the new stuff isn't really going to be groundbreaking, not in the way that proper monster children were.
 

OxKing

Newbie
Jun 30, 2019
15
26
1616412328551.png

Does anyone else think the cavalry dude is the creepiest opponent in the game.
pretty sure this dude has seen and committed crimes against humanity and is looking forward to a second go.

dude gives me the heebie jeebies
 
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