Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

[mordet]

Those are getting pretty involved

[...]abusing the town tribute bug[...]

That's a bug?! But it doesn't seem like one at all, the image of a (seemingly) powerless beast posing itself as a dragon impotently yelling at a burg to "gib me yer waman" then leaving empty-handed seems reasonable enough. Sure, it might be able to actually take them by force, but the action of acting as if it couldn't makes it worth the anger. It's a big facre for the dragon to act weak but it has an ulterior motive.

[...]About 1800 gold worth, in fact. You're not raiding the jeweler or noble castles much, I guess? I've since made it so that you can store several of the same 'place' in memory, so you can have a bank of castles to raid if you wish.

I might have been in between two selling spells. I don't sell unless I need to, since the jeweler has so much money that there's no reason to sell to anyone else. I don't avoid castles, actually, I look forward to them since it gets me a noble. I guess as long as you're not running out of money, it's not a concern. I think that the issue here is that since I don't know the value of the treasures I get before I look into them I just don't value them. Sure, the game might tell me I got a pendent, but it's as likely (as far as I know) to be worth 2g as it's to be worth 200g. so I guess I don't really care. Maidens, I know what to do with. satiety, too. Objects? I have so any things to take care of as a dragon that a few objects are only worth what the jeweler says they are worth. pretty draconian, I suppose, but not conducive to caring about loot, I suppose

Why only one? You do have the ability to build more farms. And milk gets better with more pregnancies.

The only value to milk I hold is as an healing agent. The selling price is pretty underwhelming so I didn't think of selling it. Like, sure, I might have 400x 40c milk but that's only 1.6g. Big whoop. I might as well keep it for healing.
However, the issue is probably for the fact that I didn't scour the forum for patches.

Also, are you using the 'drink until healed option'; and possibly also the beta 'drink button' from here?

I didn't know there was a patch for a "drink until healed" button. But the important question is can you do it for you minions? because I don't really care about using milk since I can pay for it at the witch. My minion, the ones I might want to train, though, I might want to heal.

I recall using fire breath a lot when I was smaller, and also making regular trips to the jeweler. I also tend to have a lair overflowing with cages and maidens, so sacrifices were always in abundance. But I've never got to playing one of the huge+ sizes and their bigger sacrifice requirements.

Oh for sure, I'm still using the dragon breath, but that's just about planning your encounters. The sparks have always been a nice feature that I used from time to time, but it won't come before making sure the demons don't get summoned.

That's very draconic. A lot of people are kinda attached to the special girls. Hmm, how did you miss Marianne? Or did you just pay her off?

Oh, yeah, her, the king's niece, right? sure I gave her the 100g then realized I got swindled but by that point, I guess, she got me, you know? She gave me a few honeyed word, I was intrigued, I gave her the money and there it was. The poverty, at the time was a pain in the ass, but I can't be mad about being interested in what's going to happen when a princess tries to mount a coup against her father. I guess I'm just a good antagonist in that way.

The cloud castle is much bigger (size 60), totally escape-proof for all but the two flying maiden types, and just cool to live in. Size is the biggest bonus here, since max stamina is a hard cap for expansion. Although I guess if you're not concerned about having dozens of cages, farms and breeding pits, it's not such a big deal.

about the size, I couldn't know before I moved in. And, I know, I could just save before I moved in and undo if I wasn't happy, but, that's not really how I play, I guess. I understand, and do, reloading when a situation gets out of your control, but in a case like this it feels like a choice. Either keep the lair I have or get the new one and get the new thing. It's not like I got flat-footed by an encounter that lasted a long time, or something. I deliberately chose to move. So if it's worst, I feel it's on me. and it's not like it's a gameover. I'll just deal with the cards I was dealt and move on, I think. The point is I didn't feel like moving was worth the risk of getting something worst, and I didn't feel the NEED of moving.

Yeah, but you could, you know, just sell the eggs or give the scalies to Mom. You've got a whole horde of them underfoot.

Yes, I COULD, but the value of the eggs are so low, I might as well keep the offspring. and I have no reason to send them to mom. It's not like the cost me a lot and they do protect from thieves and knights. I always send the weakest minion I have when I have too many. I just haven't had too many in a while.

Kobolds come from those Burghesses you sacrifice and eat all the time. Nuns, too. And not all lizardmen spawn from nobles. Elves, oni, beastkin, the fire and ice girls... Anyone you can rape without killing them outright can be thrown into a breeding pit and it's pure profit after that. Even 3-4 kobolds give you quite a bit of food once the discount is maxed.

Oh, I suppose that It's true. but it's still such a pain to impregnate a female, then make sure they bring to term without dying. So I just do it for strong offspring. About the sacrifices: pretty sure when you deflower a maiden they lose about half of their sacrificial potential. So If I didn't care about the minuscule value of an offspring, I would rather just sacrifice them as virgins.

Yeah, I'll be fixing that.

Aw, shit. see farther up.

Your pride screen says 'hard battles won: 0'. Meaning you never fought something that overpowered you 2-1 or worse.

Oh, I've been wary of wasting minions because there's a pride score associeted with it. I'm sure I could have been roaming with weaker minons and taken harder fights but I didn't want to lose them unless I fucked up.

Darkwood is the only place to get demon girls. There are also occasional firelings, rare attack mastery and HP training events on top of what the trainer gives you. And once you get monster lairs unlocked, there are some more unique fights against them.

I believe you but how could I know? I've been going to the darkwood once in a while to gain knowledge but usually it's a waste of time. I have no reason to believe that there's value in going there. Found a few beastkin, fought a few treants. I have other things to do, train jewelmaking, gain a few maidens, fill out my sat score, evolve, find another titaness. Many thing that are at least concrete, if unlikely, goals. going to the darkwood "just because" is very low on my list of priorities.

I think acid is still the rarest element to be resisted, so that niche isn't going away.

As long as it stays as the dedicated "armor piercer" It's fine with me.

Crafting? Collecting treasure together with maidens (villages, lair locations, plus noble maidens from carriages and yachts give some nice trinkets). Raiding the royal palace is probably the best for that.

The way you get Money doesn't matter much because either way if I got 100g one way or another, if I use it on maidens I'm not using it on something else. That means that even if you're getting money by doing things unrelated, it's still an opportunity cost. And 50g is 50g. you were asking me how come I had so little money that might have been answer.

All the lizardman types suck when you have more advanced minions available. But leafzards do magic damage, so are always of some use, and are much more available than Ravagers. And can be sent to the tribe. You also get the super-lizardmen who are probably the third best offensive minion in the game, except against mages and the like.

By the time you can get leafzards (power 5) you can already get the much more abundant and about as useful basilisks. getting alves without just buying them, which is unfeasible early game with their ~100g cost, is only possible reliably by the time you can get drakes. I don't know, maybe my path was easier then most, but I never found a use. by the time I could get them, I could already get drakes or wyverns.

Elves themselves make for passable early-mid-game minions as well, although getting them to accept is a lot of trouble.

But it's so much work for so little reward!
Again, by the time you can even find them, reliably, you have no need for them.

There are? Discard the .rpyc files, these are compiled versions. Of the other two, one is in the 'game/tl' folder, which is the translation. So new files almost always go into 'game/_script' or 'game/_story'. If I have something bigger than just 1-3 files, I'll make a proper patch.

Well, maybe 4 time was an exaggeration, but 2 times per is pretty standard. and by that point, when you're not sure how the game works, just having some readme would be grand.

 

[mordet]

Actually, I've been playing a size 8 dragon for a while and It's not fun. 90% of your time is spent either eating or finding sacrifices. all those things about trying new things with your captive? forget it, you gotta eat, you gotta make sacrifices. I'm looking forward to when there are heavy-weight catches.

 

[Jman9]

Good stuff.

That's a bug?! But it doesn't seem like one at all, the image of a (seemingly) powerless beast posing itself as a dragon impotently yelling at a burg to "gib me yer waman" then leaving empty-handed seems reasonable enough.

The bug is that you can do it repeatedly, -5 infamy per rage until you're frenzied. Spending one stamina for 4-8 infamy is relatively OK.

...well, not entirely okay, now that I think of it. I think I'll make it so that you have to fight the villagers if the dragon's size is less than village size when you fail to intimidate.

...the jeweler has so much money that there's no reason to sell to anyone else.

Does it change with heavy crafting? I once gave the shops more money because I was afraid they'd run out if you raid rich spots and craft a lot.

I don't avoid castles, actually, I look forward to them since it gets me a noble.

I guess you don't savescum, so without the 'hunt for lairs' feature and a lair weight overhaul it's hard to get those. My point was that raiding for nobles gets you a lot of good loot, and some extra from the maidens themselves. Your treasure seems to be mostly from poorer locations.

The only value to milk I hold is as an healing agent. The selling price is pretty underwhelming so I didn't think of selling it. Like, sure, I might have 400x 40c milk but that's only 1.6g. Big whoop.

A good townswoman (5+ power, 20+ pregnancies) should be giving ~20s milk each day, 10s when selling. A well-seeded noblegirl gives at least half a gold, more likely ~30s at the jeweler's (why a jeweler is buying human milk is, of course, a question best left unaswered ). Get a dozen of them, and you'll be making several gold per day, enough to get at least a couple of girls from Hakim per sleep cycle. Angel milk is much better, of course.

I didn't know there was a patch for a "drink until healed" button.

The 'drink until healed' option has been there for a long while. The mini-patch just adds the ability to cycle between minions in the 'Captives' screen and do torture+healing with less clicks.

But the important question is can you do it for you minions?

Er, how come your milk doesn't work for minions? It most definitely should. Are they actually injured?

The sparks have always been a nice feature that I used from time to time, but it won't come before making sure the demons don't get summoned.

That's a given, but I was drowning in noble virgins specifically captured for sacrifice when I last played. So my altars were either going unused or sparky. I guess it's the savescumming, again.

...I got swindled but by that point, I guess, she got me, you know?

Good one.

The point is I didn't feel like moving was worth the risk of getting something worst, and I didn't feel the NEED of moving.

That's fair. Most people would still like to take a look at the new lair, I suppose. Especially one that took so much effort to get.

Yes, I COULD, but the value of the eggs are so low...

Aren't basilisk eggs about 5 gold apiece? Getting half a dozen of these every sleep cycle doesn't sound so bad.

...and I have no reason to send them to mom.

The 'amass army' quest?

I always send the weakest minion I have when I have too many. I just haven't had too many in a while.

I'm always drowning in eggs, but I guess I'm farming the women a lot more, and it's not really something that's necessary.

...it's still such a pain to impregnate a female, then make sure they bring to term without dying.

Breeding pits? No deaths there. I usually try to time it so I'm awake when pregnancies come to term, and then cycle a bunch of women through the pits. But I've been a lot smaller than you, so maybe it's not as viable then.

About the sacrifices: pretty sure when you deflower a maiden they lose about half of their sacrificial potential.

True. You could also sell the more expensive types back to Hakim.

So If I didn't care about the minuscule value of an offspring...

Food from the tribe? Spell fodder when you're still smaller? Discount for that type in the Army? Stacking cheap minions against thieves?

I suppose you're just not a family dragon.

I'm sure I could have been roaming with weaker minons and taken harder fights but I didn't want to lose them unless I fucked up.

Oh. Okay. Doesn't the healing spell help with that?

I believe you but how could I know?

Exploration? Code diving? Searching the thread? The pride screen that says 'Phoenixes turned to ashes'? Not very good answers, I know, but I don't know how else to advertise such things without breaking immersion.

going to the darkwood "just because" is very low on my list of priorities.

That's fair. The whole area is kind of tacked onto the game. Although once you unlock monster lairs and get a reliable source of knowledge (the Elder Witch, which isn't in the released version ), it gets better.

The way you get Money doesn't matter much because either way if I got 100g one way or another...

The question isn't how you're getting the money, but rather why that thing isn't occurring more often. Not savescumming and not farming women for eggs and milk are choices of yours, so that's a part of it. Crafting is still something that could be more focused on, and so is raiding the Capital for riches. If these aren't attractive or useful, I may need to do some thinking.

By the time you can get leafzards (power 5) you can already get the much more abundant and about as useful basilisks.

Yeah... I don't really want to dilute the 'advanced' minions, either. Are gargants more useful, comparatively? And what would you give to leafzards to make them more attractive? Swap damage types, so magic is primary? Higher attack mastery for more parrying? Nerf basilisks?

...getting alves without just buying them, which is unfeasible early game with their ~100g cost, is only possible reliably by the time you can get drakes.

The first guaranteed elf is the unique one from the brothel, whom you can steal for no monetary cost and 5 sparks. There might be more generic elves there as well.

There's also a rare encounter with a knight and an elven warrior just outside the forest. That's how I got my first elfgirl last time. And if you get one for 100 gold, you can recycle her for a lot of leafzards, especially if she turns out to be a 'lusty' girl who doesn't need much convincing to jump on dragon cock. The wizard tower also has one, but it's rare and pretty tough to take on that early.

I don't know, maybe my path was easier then most, but I never found a use. by the time I could get them, I could already get drakes or wyverns.

Drakes are one whole tier above wyverns, requiring the red hatchery. And the intermediate hatcheries are pretty rare. I take it you were lucky with the frost and fire giants? Or just skipped to elves? The latter option will get disabled.

But it's so much work for so little reward!

Depends on the elf, 'lusty' ones are much easier to recruit. But I actually do want to discourage girl minions.

Again, by the time you can even find them, reliably, you have no need for them.

Um, but you don't need more than four at the most, unless you let them die a lot?

Well, maybe 4 time was an exaggeration, but 2 times per is pretty standard. and by that point, when you're not sure how the game works, just having some readme would be grand.

Okay, I just assumed you knew your way around Ren'Py. Most people who take on untested patches do.

Actually, I've been playing a size 8 dragon for a while and It's not fun. 90% of your time is spent either eating or finding sacrifices.

Yeah, I'm aware of it. Auto-sacrifice and lots of food changes are already in, but waiting on me to get back and start tackling the rest of my todo list.

Do try to get some minions for the tribe, that's one of the best sources of food out there. Or just raid the royal palace a lot, I think you can get 400+ satiety and some passable treasure every time.

 

[Hypermode]

I got an error message about "remembered location stamina use" after fleeing from a druid+bear fight in the enchanted grove.

 

[Jman9]

I think this, or something very close to this has already been reported. In any case, the message itself is harmless, mostly a reminder that I should recheck the code (and I think I did, but the result is still in that same pile on half-finished stuff ).

 

[Jman9]

what do i need to do?

Click continue and thank God they obfuscated part of your bank account number?

 

[Hypermode]

I can't get my milking farm to work, no matter who I put in there it just says "your Milking Farms are not producing".

 

[zzczys]

I can't get my milking farm to work, no matter who I put in there it just says "your Milking Farms are not producing".

Put in a pregnant female?

 

[Jman9]

Doesn't have to be pregnant at that particular moment, but does need to have given birth to a Dragon Egg.

 

[Hypermode]

I put in a pregnant oni with 26 births, nothing. My lair is the elf grove if it matters.

 

[Jman9]

In that case I need a save to see what's going on.

The only other reason I can think of is that you're too poor to support the milking, but if you're in the elven grove I doubt that's it.

 

[Hypermode]

Here:

 

[Isilindil]

Can confirm I had similar issue.

 

[Jman9]

Well, it's working as intended. Kind of. Your maiden is so beat up that her milk is worth absolutely nothing, so she isn't getting milked to prevent the farm from killing her for no gain.

Not exactly sure what to do about this. I had enough trouble hunting down milking pictures that I don't really want to go looking for another to make a "can't milk" event.

Anyone has ideas?

 

[Isilindil]

Always thought farm is supposed to work like pit: use them as long as it can. I guess it stops at about 10 hp?

 

[Jman9]

Not just HP. If she has enough energy, attack or attack mastery, she can still be milked pretty well even when she's about to kick the bucket.

Well, I guess I'll just allow excessively cheap milk and kick up the HP drain a notch when the 'cow' is on her last legs. The tentacles are like taxmen, squeezing out every last drop, no matter if they kill the subject or not.

Edit: Hypermode, I looked into your save a bit and, despite this being on easy difficulty, I've got to say that it's likely the most balanced save I've seen yet. I'm especially impressed with all the minion breeding you've been doing.

Some more observations:

• I wonder why this weird snake-dragon portrait is so popular...
  
• You've got a quest that's not been turned in yet.
• Again, no evolving? Is it a strategic choice, lack of food or something else?
• No hard battles won for you, too. I suppose these are hard to come by while playing on easy.
• What did you do with your other two unique maidens? I guess at least one was an elven queen?
• No Homunculi, even when they're still tough as nails and there's no pride penalty for using them?

 

[Hypermode]

I wonder why this weird snake-dragon portrait is so popular...

To me it looked evil and animalistic, the dragon in this game is kind of a freak. Also bronze looked like simplest starting head to me.

You've got a quest that's not been turned in yet.

I had a situation where the knight would repeatedly find the lair and not attack it. This went on so long that when she finally did attack, I had forgotten about the quest.

Again, no evolving? Is it a strategic choice, lack of food or something else?

Evolving size has a lot of drawbacks, growing too quickly has been a headache for me in past games. Right now I have a huge problem with fragile princesses, If I evolve more they will die just from looking at me.

No hard battles won for you, too. I suppose these are hard to come by while playing on easy.

I think it's rare to find situation where fighting such a battle is to your benefit unless you know a lot about the game. For me it just seems like dead minions for no gain.

What did you do with your other two unique maidens? I guess at least one was an elven queen?

Breeding pit I guess, some of those leafzards are elven royalty.

Why, is there something special about them other than the title?

No Homunculi, even when they're still tough as nails and there's no pride penalty for using them?

This is just preference, breeding you own minions is clearly more fun than buying them.

 

[Jman9]

...the dragon in this game is kind of a freak.

I had a situation where the knight would repeatedly find the lair and not attack it.

Yeah, I overhauled knights and thieves a while ago, partially because of this.

Turning in that quest would net you a couple other quests, but I don't think they are going to be doable anytime soon.

Right now I have a huge problem with fragile princesses, If I evolve more they will die just from looking at me.

Hmm, the 'change_affection' fix should make it so that only the really fragile ones get killed outright, and only when they go through all four steps of rape. Just looking at you shouldn't be that bad. Do you have any numbers, like 'Dragon size x, princess HP = y, torture does z damage, one round of rape does w damage'?

I think it's rare to find situation where fighting such a battle is to your benefit unless you know a lot about the game. For me it just seems like dead minions for no gain.

You could fight a solo battle? It's also even harder as a bonus.

Why, is there something special about them other than the title?

Well, they usually have higher stats and thus give mildly better-quality eggs and milk than a run-of-the-mill maiden of the same type. I'm also giving some of them better 'normal' spawns in the future.

Mialee has poison and the fiery peasant is also pretty unique as a minion.

 

[Hypermode]

When I think about it he has a lot in common with monsters from greek myth like Typhon (mix and match anatomy, highly diverse offspring, godlike mom)

Hmm, the 'change_affection' fix should make it so that only the really fragile ones get killed outright, and only when they go through all four steps of rape. Just looking at you shouldn't be that bad. Do you have any numbers, like 'Dragon size x, princess HP = y, torture does z damage, one round of rape does w damage'?

My dragon is impressive size and has a lot of fear, a rape does usually over 20 damage. Minimal "play with" torture is enough to kill a 12 hp princess, but *barely* survivable for a 14 hp one. Even still you need an annoying number of sessions to cross the "mate" threshold.

You could fight a solo battle? It's also even harder as a bonus.

Probably I could, or I could get killed, it's hard to know at first. I think after fighting some orcs and minotaurs in the early game and having only wounds (and exp) to show for it, I internalized the idea that "grueling fights are bad, curb-stomp your enemies".

 

[Jman9]

My dragon is impressive size and has a lot of fear, a rape does usually over 20 damage. Minimal "play with" torture is enough to kill a 12 hp princess, but *barely* survivable for a 14 hp one.

Hmm, I may have to look and see if the difference with the WIP version is indeed that great. A rape doing ~25 damage for excessively fearsome dragons is okay, there are tougher maidens out there once you get to that point (elves, for example).

Minimal torture should really be lower, what options are you using? Roaring should be relatively benign, and lightning as well.

Even still you need an annoying number of sessions to cross the "mate" threshold.

Don't some princesses have it at 50 or even 25 affection?

Probably I could, or I could get killed, it's hard to know at first.

I suppose I didn't yet put the reatreat tooltip onto the 'run' button?

I think after fighting some orcs and minotaurs in the early game and having only wounds (and exp) to show for it, I internalized the idea that "grueling fights are bad, curb-stomp your enemies".

Well, that's how RL militaries operate.

Although orcs, goblins and the other mountain critters are specifically meant as a source of XP and not much else.