Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

[Jman9]

I don't see why not, but, more importantly, can you change the difficulty mid-game?

Kind of, but there's no really easy way to do it. Depending on what exactly gets changed, you may have to re-run a bunch of startup code, either manually via the console or by writing a temp function.

Either way, it's not really about seal decay, but more about sacrifice choices. The best choice I have right now is elvas.
...they pay for twice themselves. BUT, that's the problem.

...a minimal amount of progress.

Well, from one POV, that's okay. It's not the destination that matters, it's the journey, even if it's filled with rage-inducing picnics and lots of "Yes, mom...".

On the other claw, auto-sacrifice will alleviate quite a bit of this. Well, right now it's all empty promises, of course.

And no, there's no oversleeping ... since the dragon is getting a full rest.

Hmmm... There should be a penalty for these short naps. I'll put one in.

And either way, it would be the same if I slept the whole 180 days since this is about ratios.

For some things, it's about ratios. But others are more sensitive to getting wrecked by a long sleep. Seals can break completely, breeders die to tentacles, knights will level up...

To add to that, raiding the capital is the best infamy generating activity per stamina.

It bloody well should be. I mean, it's the King's friggin' bedroom!

...the other shy of half is spent keeping appearances.

Uh, that's actually an unintended consequence of the 'long sleep' mechanic. People were complaining about infamy being too high, not the other way around. I'm not quite sure what the remedy ought to be? Infamy from the chaos-sowing brigands? That'd be counter-productive. Maybe just make the 1% not a percentage? Or raise the fame minimum for large dragons?

I think the solution would be to give higher per stamina generators of seals and infamy. Obviously beef gated so that only end-game dragons with full squads can take them.

Isn't the capital raid already that for infamy? I have a hard time imagining what would 'realistically' give more infamy than regularly raiding the ruler's palace.

Otherwise, making giant lairs less more common is the... third?... item on the todo list, and auto-sacrifice can already be scaled to angels via slightly cheaty stockpiling.

This happens because this game is a mix... A game that has a tickling bomb ... all to get to that said "game-ending" that it wants to share.

Well, the game wants to share the ending. The mod, uh, really doesn't. But since the ending was already there...

it's impossible to relax and explore and simply do idiotic stuff

Easy difficulty. You'll also get some more customisable 'cheats' (including turning seals off on any difficulty) and a 'below easy' difficulty.

...quests y'know, taking on phoenixes, titans, making money, crafting, finding lairs, amassing a horde of girls.

Well, you can't really expect to do all of them at once. But I see your point.

I can't find exotic virgins

Known issue, moderate-to-hard to solve properly. On the list.

You could try to steal them from cultists, but that's kinda risky.

I can't craft

Why not? Leveling crafting is a grind, that I'll grant you. But I don't think it's truly necessary, either.

make money

You should be able to raid the dwarves every sixth full sleep cycle. The elves probably aren't as profitable, and the lairs with good treasure are unreasonably rare. Still, getting a few thousand every now and then ought to be doable.

...not very efficient knowing how much money the army needs.

This issue will get worse now that the dragon also wants a shiny bed to sleep on. What's your crafting level and best treasure shape?

A big merchant gives ~50 gold now, and a dwarven airship can be 200+ at the jeweler, more with crafting. Don't recall the exact values in the release ATM.

About going around asking for maidens? No, it's mathematically impossible.

Well, it's only 'impossible' if you care about postponing the demonpocalypse. But it's a very 'dragon shit' thing to do, and having to contend with more cultists because of a rampage is entirely fine. Just don't rampage too often.

Ultimately, I think you're too focused on the seals. You're a big bad dragon, you can take on the demons. You'll lose access to the capital, plus most raiding and patrols due to poverty, but you can now steal a lot more girls from cultists and sell them to Hakim, along with eggs and milk. The 'normal' ending is still available.

I didn't test it out but let's give it the benefit of the doubt and say that's a 50/50.

It's one nun per two townies.

I think a method to help out with that would be to create a place that unlocks in the sky, somewhat like the enchanted forest...

Well, the giant lairs are supposed to be that, and I have plans to beef up the giants. But these lairs are way too rare currently, and new enemies are somewhere in the middle of the todo list.

elvas

Alves. Alfar. The Hidden People. I don't really know WTF a цверг is. It's an adaptation from German 'Zwerg', which itself split away from a proto-language form sometime in the early ADs. English 'dwarf' comes from the same heritage, but that's the time when things went differently for different Germanic languages.

 

[Riujin]

For sure it's easier, but it makes way more sense to make them decay at the current speed. Also, simply making them decay slower wouldn't test your ability to setup a crack team able to thrive. If they decay slower, then you don't work towards keeping up with your ballooning size. It's just given. It seems a bit too easy, no?
Every other size is well tuned so the logical solution would be to add a more efficient method of restoring seals and keeping up with infamy. If the new method is twice as efficient, you would need half your stamina to keep up with decay, and the rest could be used to progress. which is about what the rest of the game is like.

Mh... I'm not really convinced, maybe because of how it is "stated" into the game... The "people fear your actions, so they start asking demons help to fight you"... But I literally never saw a demon until every seal broke and the disaster started... Plus, I can't see how "much" trouble and fear a dragon big like a "cat" could create into the kind to force dark cultists to "awake" the demons.

It mostly feels like a "game" timer running over your head instead of a full implemented feature (at least in my opinion). I would find it much more attractive that if instead of a "ticking bomb" from the start, it slowly... Slowly build up over time with fear as you do "bad" things (I can understand why people should start shitting in their pants as you start rummaging the zone, getting down castles, raping princes... Or literally being a "walking" mountain). Plus, maybe some sexy demon encounters that would run after your head as those seals get lower and lower... Maybe even changing a little bit how the sacrifice things works, if the seals decay slower you don't need to go mad every month making a sacrifice... That could be solved simply by making a sacrifice every 6 months with increased "restored seals" instead of a monthly routinee that just became a "chore"

 

[Jman9]

I'm not really convinced, maybe because of how it is "stated" into the game... The "people fear your actions, so they start asking demons help to fight you"... But I literally never saw a demon until every seal broke and the disaster started...

...maybe some sexy demon encounters that would run after your head as those seals get lower and lower...

Adding demons and especially more demonettes is the second biggest single thing on the todo list.

And demonettes won't 'run after your head', but something along these lines will be happening. If I ever get to that.

Plus, I can't see how "much" trouble and fear a dragon big like a "cat" could create into the kind to force dark cultists to "awake" the demons.

Dragons and tales grow in the telling. That's why there are two 'fears', and 'power' is discoupled from infamy.

I also see that you've not met the right cat yet...

Maybe even changing a little bit how the sacrifice things works, if the seals decay slower you don't need to go mad every month making a sacrifice... That could be solved simply by making a sacrifice every 6 months with increased "restored seals" instead of a monthly routinee that just became a "chore"

Automated scrifices to reduce the 'chore' part. I don't want to lessen the seals' impact on the overall flow of the game.

 

[Riujin]

Well, the game wants to share the ending. The mod, uh, really doesn't. But since the ending was already there...

They the problem might be on my side? ^^" I literally skipped a "Time for dragons" I went from defiler wings to this mod without passing for the supposed "Original" game People talked about it well, I like the old graphic and said that it offered a challenge and a fun game... And that's was what I was seeking ^^ (I still have no idea on how much it differs from the said original game)

I'm not really complaining about the game either as I'm REALLY having a blast with it... It's just that "optimal" playstyle it differs much from how I like to play... Which is...I Love to fool around with things! Let's say I want to "waste a year" doing nothing... I'm totally down from that, but already from normal difficulty something like that would literally and inevitably FUCK your game. (I'm on third restart )

Easy (no seals decay) with normal stats it might have hit the spot ^^ I'll try and see!

Adding demons and especially more demonettes is the second biggest single thing on the todo list.

And demonettes won't 'run after your head', but something along these lines will be happening. If I ever get to that.

Oh this would be interesting ^^

 

[mordet]

Oh, no. It's huge!

On the other claw, auto-sacrifice will alleviate quite a bit of this. Well, right now it's all empty promises, of course.

I'm kinda confused about that whole auto-sacrifice thing. You still need to go find them, no? That's what's talking long.

Hmmm... There should be a penalty for these short naps. I'll put one in.

I think that makes sense, but only if there's a solution to the situation and not just: you're big now, you get demons of your birthday.

For some things, it's about ratios. But others are more sensitive to getting wrecked by a long sleep. Seals can break completely, breeders die to tentacles, knights will level up...

True, and needed. But if the basic ratio is off, everything else is just shit gravy on top of the puke sundae.
What I mean is that getting additional problems for long rests is all well and good, but you need time to counter-act them.
You need time to find new girls, time to expand your lair, time to do everything. Which is why you need very efficient methods to subsist, then less efficient methods to repair damage, and finally least efficient methods to make progress.

It bloody well should be. I mean, it's the King's friggin' bedroom!

Doesn't mean it should be the MOST efficient. Pretty sure seeing a flying mountain fighting against demi-gods in the sky and seeing the apostle of god falling mutilated, their inhuman woman's deafening screams from the brutal rape would make for a bigger impression.

Why not? Leveling crafting is a grind, that I'll grant you. But I don't think it's truly necessary, either.

If I remember correctly, .25 stam per craft. That's 2.75 seals, 13.75 satiety and 1.67 infamy. Sure, it might feel like much, but, as said before you need all your time to keep the world from either ending or forgetting about you.

You should be able to raid the dwarves every sixth full sleep cycle. The elves probably aren't as profitable, and the lairs with good treasure are unreasonably rare. Still, getting a few thousand every now and then ought to be doable.

It is, but those should be a nice addition to what you do. Not the largest amount

This issue will get worse now that the dragon also wants a shiny bed to sleep on. What's your crafting level and best treasure shape?

272 and 963g

A big merchant gives ~50 gold now, and a dwarven airship can be 200+ at the jeweler, more with crafting. Don't recall the exact values in the release ATM.

No spare energy. None. or so little that it's once in a blue moon.

Well, it's only 'impossible' if you care about postponing the demonpocalypse. But it's a very 'dragon shit' thing to do, and having to contend with more cultists because of a rampage is entirely fine. Just don't rampage too often.

Shouldn't you care about postponing the demonapocalypse? Yes, contending with cultists is fine but the rampages don't make a difference. fear is locked at 10 because of size. I can't get infamy level higher then 18, or sometimes, briefly, 19.

Ultimately, I think you're too focused on the seals. You're a big bad dragon, you can take on the demons. You'll lose access to the capital, plus most raiding and patrols due to poverty, but you can now steal a lot more girls from cultists and sell them to Hakim, along with eggs and milk. The 'normal' ending is still available.

honestly, I didn't know what the consequences were to the demons taking over. but now that I know, I really don't want to let go of a ~800/2.7 stamina deal. that's the only thing that's time efficient right now.


Brother, I don't want to look like an entitled player, right now. And if this was a case of "just play more efficiently" Iplay better, or whatever. If it was a case of "dude, hard mode is supposed to be hard", I'd shut up and suck it up; or lower the difficulty. But now, the most efficient way to play, on normal mode, is resulting in a stalemate. Even more so when the whole game there's been a large emphasis on stopping the cultists doing their jobs. and either way. what's the point of having several endings is the only feasible one is the second.

PS. archichump is a chump

 

[mordet]

Oh unrelated, but I've been sending a good amount of minions to the army. but the power is still 0. is that normal?

 

[Riujin]

Oh unrelated, but I've been sending a good amount of minions to the army. but the power is still 0. is that normal?

Just for comparison, how many have you sent?

 

[mordet]

well, I bought some, but I'd approximate 200-300

 

[Riujin]

well, I bought some, but I'd approximate 200-300

I'm nowhere close... 40 goblins, 3 lizard mans, 5 leofzard, 5 snakes, 5 flying snakes, 5 cokas, 2 basilisks

I'm kinda curious too on what is the formula of army

 

[mordet]

counting the ones that I purchased I have:
1000 goblins
100 kobolds
100 murlocs
50 crocs
25 lizardmans
50 gargants
90 leafzards
10 frostpaws
20 ravagers
15 nagas
85 succubi
35 dragonspawns
10 wyverns
15 minotaurs
30 drakes
15 manticores
15 ice wyrms
12 balors
1 chimera
1 demonspawn
10 poisonous asps
10 winged asps
40 cockatrices
50 basilisks

so, with purchased bois, ~1800

 

[Jman9]

...minions to the army. but the power is still 0. is that normal?

Fuck, I thought I had fixed this. There are still invisible 'casualties'. Console "army.power = 0.0" to fix your game and use the attached script to fix new games.

But it does show you how bad the Final Battle is going to be. These 'losses' are equivalent to one round of battles there.

Oh, no. It's huge!

"Big suprise... Huge surprise..."

I'm kinda confused about that whole auto-sacrifice thing. You still need to go find them, no?

Kind of, but not really. You can stockpile girls and set up your auto-sacrifice with those. Or buy them from Hakim. You just can't abuse it too much (beyond 1 angel/stamina levels).

...only if there's a solution to the situation and not just: you're big now, you get demons of your birthday.

Well, the solution is to max the seals before sleeping and keep a stock of sacrifices. Or pray to Hakim.

You need time to find new girls, time to expand your lair, time to do everything. Which is why you need very efficient methods to subsist, then less efficient methods to repair damage, and finally least efficient methods to make progress.

Auto-sacrifice will save time, more food will save time, more giant lairs will mean better girls. Don't know about infamy, though.

Doesn't mean it should be the MOST efficient. Pretty sure seeing a flying mountain fighting against demi-gods in the sky...

I think it's a little too big. The other peasants will never believe this is the pure, unadultered truth.

If I remember correctly, .25 stam per craft.

That's without multiple workshops. Which are kinda hard to use, what with all the differently priced crap and all, but saving up and doing a big, multi-workshop smithing session seems like the obvious answer.

That's 2.75 seals, 13.75 satiety and 1.67 infamy. Sure, it might feel like much, but, as said before you need all your time...

That's only if you leave leveling crafting till you're size 10.

It is, but those should be a nice addition to what you do. Not the largest amount

Actually, knightly lairs should be the best 'regular' option, barring dwarven airships.

272 and 963g

Not too much, then. You're not even getting a pride bonus yet. Are you using the smugglers' stock to craft?

No spare energy.

Well, as I said, you can't get money, minions, darkwood, new lairs, etc all at once. If you replaced your DW excursions with hunting for gold, you'd see much faster progress.

Shouldn't you care about postponing the demonapocalypse?

Well, yes, but not that much when you're a walking apocalypse yourself. It's called over-extending.

Yes, contending with cultists is fine but the rampages don't make a difference. fear is locked at 10 because of size. I can't get infamy level higher then 18, or sometimes, briefly, 19.

Why do you want more fear? And it's 10 because you leave mobilization up. Demonpocalypse or just high poverty will get your fear up.

...I really don't want to let go of a ~800/2.7 stamina deal. that's the only thing that's time efficient right now.

The food? Food will become much more plentiful.

But now, the most efficient way to play, on normal mode, is resulting in a stalemate. Even more so when the whole game there's been a large emphasis on stopping the cultists doing their jobs. and either way.

Yeah, er, you're somewhat right. But you can also look at it like this: hitting size 10 is basically painting a big red sign on your back saying "come get me!". So they do. It's... well, like another doom clock. Except you deliberately tick it over yourself.

Not sure if something really needs to be done about it on normal+ and higher. Or what, exactly.

what's the point of having several endings is the only feasible one is the second.

Nah, the normal ending is still feasible. Now you don't have to worry about sacrifices or infamy, get exotics from the cultists, and can still raid the dwarves, merchants, airhsips and potential lairs for cash. The one big thing that's gone is the jeweler.

archichump is a chump

I'm aware. I'm going to make a bunch of demon waves for you to wade through, give him attack mastery, and maybe some per-turn healing if it's still too little.

I'm kinda curious too on what is the formula of army

max(0,int(math.floor( (0.5 * self.servants_power + 1 * self.grunts_power + 1 * self.specials_power + 2 * self.elites_power) * ((3.0 + self.diversity) / 4.0) * self.equipment ) - self.power * 20000))

Well, you asked.

minion list

You're too heavy on elites and too light on actual grunts (and snakes). The ideal mix is 5-10% elites, 10-20% snakes, and 25-50% others. Otherwise, you tank 'diversity'. Although more raw power can compensate quite a bit.

 

[mordet]

You're too heavy on elites and too light on actual grunts (and snakes). The ideal mix is 5-10% elites, 10-20% snakes, and 25-50% others. Otherwise, you tank 'diversity'. Although more raw power can compensate quite a bit.

you sure, I'm counting ~1500 out of my 1800 being grunts

Fuck, I thought I had fixed this. There are still invisible 'casualties'. Console "army.power = 0.0" to fix your game and use the attached script to fix new games.

you might have, I just downloaded the game from the first post. I can't be assed to hunt down every patch in 131 pages of forum.

 

[Jman9]

you sure, I'm counting ~1500 out of my 1800 being grunts

Goblins aren't grunts. You need 25-50% grunts and 25-50% 'servants' (goblins, kobolds, murlocs, crocs). No self-respecting lizardman is campaigning without a goblin porter.

you might have, I just downloaded the game from the first post. I can't be assed to hunt down every patch in 131 pages of forum.

No, I checked, I only fixed half of the issue in HF 3D. Curiously, the WIP version was alright, even though I thought I did both of them at the same time.



In other news, I might know what to do with the infamy issue: scale infamy loss period with dragon size. It's currently 1% per 2 weeks on up to normal+. If I put it at 1.5 months for size 10, would that be sufficient?

 

[mordet]

oh yeh, that would help for sure.

 

[Jman9]

That was easy enough to do. You can try it and tell me how it goes.

 

[Riujin]

Fuck, I thought I had fixed this. There are still invisible 'casualties'. Console "army.power = 0.0" to fix your game and use the attached script to fix new games.

But it does show you how bad the Final Battle is going to be. These 'losses' are equivalent to one round of battles there.


"Big suprise... Huge surprise..."


Kind of, but not really. You can stockpile girls and set up your auto-sacrifice with those. Or buy them from Hakim. You just can't abuse it too much (beyond 1 angel/stamina levels).


Well, the solution is to max the seals before sleeping and keep a stock of sacrifices. Or pray to Hakim.


Auto-sacrifice will save time, more food will save time, more giant lairs will mean better girls. Don't know about infamy, though.


I think it's a little too big. The other peasants will never believe this is the pure, unadultered truth.


That's without multiple workshops. Which are kinda hard to use, what with all the differently priced crap and all, but saving up and doing a big, multi-workshop smithing session seems like the obvious answer.


That's only if you leave leveling crafting till you're size 10.


Actually, knightly lairs should be the best 'regular' option, barring dwarven airships.


Not too much, then. You're not even getting a pride bonus yet. Are you using the smugglers' stock to craft?


Well, as I said, you can't get money, minions, darkwood, new lairs, etc all at once. If you replaced your DW excursions with hunting for gold, you'd see much faster progress.


Well, yes, but not that much when you're a walking apocalypse yourself. It's called over-extending.


Why do you want more fear? And it's 10 because you leave mobilization up. Demonpocalypse or just high poverty will get your fear up.


The food? Food will become much more plentiful.


Yeah, er, you're somewhat right. But you can also look at it like this: hitting size 10 is basically painting a big red sign on your back saying "come get me!". So they do. It's... well, like another doom clock. Except you deliberately tick it over yourself.

Not sure if something really needs to be done about it on normal+ and higher. Or what, exactly.


Nah, the normal ending is still feasible. Now you don't have to worry about sacrifices or infamy, get exotics from the cultists, and can still raid the dwarves, merchants, airhsips and potential lairs for cash. The one big thing that's gone is the jeweler.


I'm aware. I'm going to make a bunch of demon waves for you to wade through, give him attack mastery, and maybe some per-turn healing if it's still too little.

max(0,int(math.floor( (0.5 * self.servants_power + 1 * self.grunts_power + 1 * self.specials_power + 2 * self.elites_power) * ((3.0 + self.diversity) / 4.0) * self.equipment ) - self.power * 20000))

Well, you asked.


You're too heavy on elites and too light on actual grunts (and snakes). The ideal mix is 5-10% elites, 10-20% snakes, and 25-50% others. Otherwise, you tank 'diversity'. Although more raw power can compensate quite a bit.

Do I need to use that fix too? OR was that a lone bug?

 

[Jman9]

Everyone needs to use the fix if they don't want the bug. It'll only matter during the Final Battle, though.

 

[Riujin]

Everyone needs to use the fix if they don't want the bug. It'll only matter during the Final Battle, though.

I just realized that I have installed.... 3d hotfix and skipped 3c ^^" I suppose I need to instal even 3c?

 

[Jman9]

No, hotfixes are self-contained. I did incremental fixes scattered through the thread for my other XXX mod, and it was a disaster.

 

[Riujin]

No, hotfixes are self-contained. I did incremental fixes scattered through the thread for my other XXX mod, and it was a disaster.

There are 2 "dragon_army.rpy" and not talking about the rpyc. Which one in which folder should I fix?