Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

3.50 star(s) 8 Votes

Orelix15

Newbie
Feb 19, 2019
28
6
Fear based total bust. Heavily made satiety an even bigger issue since you cant get both satiety and loot tributes as much as just robbing the place/ killing stuff. Running away from too much stuff still kills you

Cant kill the 300 jotun with a decent dragon with no minions over 5. Probably if you specialize, with 3 ice heads, but then again, that would lock it to that condition again.

What do you mean by Jotun comes down from the mountain?
 
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Heavily made satiety an even bigger issue since you cant get both satiety and loot tributes as much as just robbing the place/ killing stuff.
The only big issue is XP, since extorting peddlers gives much better returns than trying to kill poor villagers, and it's all cold hard cash, not trinkets you can't sell yet or can only sell to the Witch-y store that rips you off big time.

You also skip a lot of down time when you're not always healing.

Edit2: Also, heavily investing into fear gives you the ability to scare enemies into skipping combat rounds, or even to death.

Edit3: Moreover, with enough fear you can extort encounters you can't really fight yet. Like a tiny dragon vs >0 mobilization farm. A hopeless fight, but can be extorted with 5+ fear.

I get the feeling you didn't really try to push the envelope, here. :p

Running away from too much stuff still kills you
Running away halves your health, so having even just 2 HP means you're safe. Rest up a bit when you get too low.

Cant kill the 300 jotun with a decent dragon with no minions over 5. Probably if you specialize, with 3 ice heads, but then again, that would lock it to that condition again.
That's what the head system is all about, specialising for the fights. You can switch heads cheaper than you can grow them. Fire heads might be a better choice, since that gives you damage. Let the meatshields take the hits.

All that being said, you might still have trouble actually beating him, which is why I made the alternative path of causing lots of devastation and hoping for the abandoned ice castle encounter. That one gives you a free ice castle that also has the white crystal.

Edit: What minions did you try it with, anyway?

What do you mean by Jotun comes down from the mountain?
They come down to the mountain. Jotuns used to be sky-exclusive, now they can also be found in the mountains.
 
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Gantithoren

Member
Aug 25, 2020
102
54
I'm actually a little worried that this might make the seals too easy. I really like the constant pressure these bring. Maybe I'll add the dragon's personal fear into the calculations. Like a fifth or tenth of it, rounded down. This way, you have things under control until you hit Impressive size or go fear-based.
Be careful not to overdo it, with the limit on satiety really hardcapping your evolutions that could easily lead back to the 'you have no choice, rush to get sacrifices' issue.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Be careful not to overdo it, with the limit on satiety really hardcapping your evolutions
I'm thinking about limiting it to roughly Impressive+ or Huge+ dragons. By that time you can be assumed to be on your way to bigger and better things, so you should be able to handle the ~0.5 mandatory seals per day. These critters have 800-2000 satiety caps, anyway.
 

prehot

Member
Jun 25, 2020
221
95
Not sure i am doing it right or it is a bug but i seem unable to get a girl to the lair.I have cave lair with a cage built in it already and still seem to not imprison a beastkin from darkwood. Maybe i need to do something more?
I attached the save in witch you get the event for a free beastkin butshe wont follow me to the lair.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Not sure i am doing it right or it is a bug but i seem unable to get a girl to the lair.I have cave lair with a cage built in it already and still seem to not imprison a beastkin from darkwood. Maybe i need to do something more?
Your dragon is too weak (power=1) to handle that girl (power=3). He knows that, and doesn't even try, because it'll end in tears. :D

Maybe I'll add an explanation later, but not now.

You also have weird taste in avatar pictures. :p Dragon ones, I mean.
 

prehot

Member
Jun 25, 2020
221
95
Your dragon is too weak (power=1) to handle that girl (power=3). He knows that, and doesn't even try, because it'll end in tears. :D

Maybe I'll add an explanation later, but not now.

You also have weird taste in avatar pictures. :p Dragon ones, I mean.
Does power level affect the doll bought from the witch or is that imprisoned by default? Would be weird for a 200 gold purchase to poof into nothingness :)
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Does power level affect the doll bought from the witch or is that imprisoned by default?
No. Power governs acquisition of girls who have less than 100 affection (pretty much all of them except the homunculus). Once you have them, having dragon.power <= girl.power OR girl.affection < 50 leads to resistance during sex, and <100 leads to resistance to killing/eating/robbery. There's no vanishing, only running away and various kinds of death, which all should have an accompanying report.

Edit: I think I'll pull the robbery limit down to 60. Not 50, because many girls start with 50.
 
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Orelix15

Newbie
Feb 19, 2019
28
6
Beastkins + a dragon with 3 ice heads couldnt beat jotun in normal

Idk when I tried the fear build, nobody seems to agree to tributes, I had 6 fear at that time. I have a bad habit of overwriting saves, I should keep more for visibility
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Beastkins + a dragon with 3 ice heads couldnt beat jotun in normal
How tough was your dragon? I'd guess anything below Impressive or even Huge isn't really viable. And did he have any ability to pierce the Jötun's armour? Ice, physical and poison don't really cut it.

Idk when I tried the fear build, nobody seems to agree to tributes, I had 6 fear at that time. I have a bad habit of overwriting saves, I should keep more for visibility
5 fear gets you peddlers, innkeepers and farms. 10 fear opens up a lot more doors, including silver and gem mines, tollmen and noble carriages. In general, it takes 5 fear per village size to be successful.
 

misterjoper

Newbie
Apr 17, 2020
42
1
The totally random "Another day dawns as *...* performs various activities" has to go. It serves no other purpose but to annoy the player.
It really annoys me early game. No way to prevent it, happens anywhere even if you just chat with u Momma.
On numerous ocassions this forced to starve. It forces you to sleep and evolutions take away 10 satiety.
Is there even a way to pause evolution?
 

Eldt

New Member
Jan 13, 2019
8
8
Just clarifying something, is it physically impossible to to burrow out a lair when your dragon is small sized? Because the cost to burrow out a lair is 100 satiety. However the small dragon's max satiety (at least on normal difficulty) is 100. And I think that satiety automatically ticks down 1 whenever times passes. This makes the effective satiety 99. I don't currently have a way to just get satiety without using a time slot because I haven't unlocked the lizard man village nor can I take captives (I don't know why, probably because I don't have a cage back at the lair). So am I meant to just get to the next level of growth? Or is there a part of the satiety/lair building mechanic I don't understand? Just for context, I had a lair that I carved out from the old ruined manor after killing the old knight. I did this while I was tiny sized and managed to burrow out the lair. Then the knight+friends came in and kicked me out. After getting back on my feet, I realized that I'd never be able to burrow out a lair while small sized.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
The totally random "Another day dawns as *...* performs various activities" has to go. It serves no other purpose but to annoy the player.
It's not random. Almost every activity, especially travel, costs some a fraction of an action. This 'another day dawns' is a rough estimate that you hit enough of those to lose a full action (or several). Otherwise, it's completely the same as normal stamina loss, with the same background and everything.

No way to prevent it, happens anywhere even if you just chat with u Momma.
Chatting means travelling to Drakonia, which takes time and stamina.

On numerous ocassions this forced to starve. It forces you to sleep and evolutions take away 10 satiety.
A failed encounter could force you to starve as well. This is no different. You don't actually sleep, and if evolutions are progressing, that's a bug.

Is there even a way to pause evolution?
You can drop the current evolution and get a full XP refund, but stamina stays spent. I'll look into pausing evolutions, but it may take a few days.

Just clarifying something, is it physically impossible to to burrow out a lair when your dragon is small sized?
I don't really recall right now. I think burrow costs scale with size, but they shouldn't be near the satiety limits. I'll take a look and fix them if they are.

...nor can I take captives (I don't know why, probably because I don't have a cage back at the lair).
Lack of power, most likely. The 'power' stat, that is.
 

misterjoper

Newbie
Apr 17, 2020
42
1
It's not random. Almost every activity, especially travel, costs some a fraction of an action. This 'another day dawns' is a rough estimate that you hit enough of those to lose a full action (or several). Otherwise, it's completely the same as normal stamina loss, with the same background and everything.
It's not the same as a normal stamina loss because when it's normal stamina you DO get what you "pay" for. But here your stamina is taken away from you because i dunno, mood mechanic is not enough apparantly.
Do you know how annoying it is to wake and have your first action cancelled?
On top of losing 10 satienty for nothing, knight also gets to do additional check if he finds your lair. (probably the very reason why he finds underwater lair that early.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
It's not the same as a normal stamina loss because when it's normal stamina you DO get what you "pay" for.
Same deal here. You 'pay' for accessing Drakonia, or the Witch, or impregnating your girls, or skipping an undesirable encounter, or getting to perform several fights in a row, etc. Well, the last one isn't always worth paying for. :p

But here your stamina is taken away from you because i dunno, mood mechanic is not enough apparantly.
No, because of dragon simulator. Edit: it's basically there as demon seals lite, to lend weight to all your actions. You know that every action has a cost, and dawdling leads to wasted time, so you pick your actions more carefully. Or not. :)

Do you know how annoying it is to wake and have your first action cancelled?
You overspend your stamina, then, basically 'borrowing' actions. I could perhaps put pending action losses into sleepytime stamina regen.

On top of losing 10 satienty for nothing
You only lose 1 stamina for 'nothing', aka staying alive. The 10 stamina gets you +1 evolution (and is a bug, if it really happens).

knight also gets to do additional check if he finds your lair
No he does not? The 'reduce unspent actions' regime is not sleeping, and doesn't trigger sleep events. If it does, that's another bug, but I don't ever recall seeing those. And one day of sleeping or whatever very likely does not advance lair finding even one point. Edit: You'll get the 'kittens' or 'I'm fucked' message, and that's that.
 
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zoomrocket

New Member
Dec 27, 2019
11
0
I'm actually a little worried that this might make the seals too easy. I really like the constant pressure these bring. Maybe I'll add the dragon's personal fear into the calculations. Like a fifth or tenth of it, rounded down. This way, you have things under control until you hit Impressive size or go fear-based.
Maybe make that exclusive to higher difficulties. Im playing on normal and without having a guide set out its still quite difficult especially with the knight forcing me to find a new lair or die. Also easy difficulty is just cheat mode so dont suggest that :p, but I will say that some in game hints at where to advance would be helpful.

On that note, where can I access higher hatchery levels? :LOL:

Edit: I also noticed a bug where eggs may not be added to the treasury. It seems to be caused by having the treasury page on ALL, as when I switched to EGGS it worked properly.
 

misterjoper

Newbie
Apr 17, 2020
42
1
No he does not? The 'reduce unspend actions' regime is not sleeping, and doesn't trigger sleep events. If it does, that's another bug, but I don't ever recall seeing those. And one day of sleeping or whatever very likely does not advance lair finding even one point. Edit: You'll get the 'kittens' or 'I'm fucked' message, and that's that.
The 'reduce unspend actions' leads to more sleeping which leads to knight getting more chance of finding your lair. Do you see the logical chain here?
Well in any case i sort of found out to NOT to starve from evolution cost. You got to sleep more days (for example you got 12 satiety. 0/2 stamina, full health, you should sleep for 3 days so you wake up with 9 satiety. If you sleep for less you will end with 0 or 1 satiety. However this will advance infernal seals more unless fear is 0).
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Maybe make that exclusive to higher difficulties. Im playing on normal and without having a guide set out its still quite difficult especially with the knight forcing me to find a new lair or die.
People were complaining that knights never showed up, now they're complaining that the tin-cans hound them to death. Make up your minds already. :p

Higher difficulties are already bad enough. 'Normal' is supposed to be the feature-complete standard, and this is a feature. The whole theme of the mod is limited resources, and no time pressure at all goes against that.

I'd rather nerf the knights than eliminate seals from certain playstyles altogether.

...I will say that some in game hints at where to advance would be helpful.
These hints are called quests. :p Or what kind of hints do you want? The mod is still a work in progress, so balance is in flux.

On that note, where can I access higher hatchery levels?
Jötun castles. The abandoned one is the easiest, but rather rare.

I also noticed a bug where eggs may not be added to the treasury. It seems to be caused by having the treasury page on ALL, as when I switched to EGGS it worked properly.
Are you sure you're not checking the next page? The inventory can have several pages per category, including ALL.

Edit:
The 'reduce unspend actions' leads to more sleeping which leads to knight getting more chance of finding your lair.
But it's not sleeping. It's mechanically identical to spending actions during random encounters, or constructing buildings, or banging brothel girls, etc. None of these give the Knight more chances.
 

zoomrocket

New Member
Dec 27, 2019
11
0
People were complaining that knights never showed up, now they're complaining that the tin-cans hound them to death. Make up your minds already. :p

...
Or what kind of hints do you want?
...

Are you sure you're not checking the next page? The inventory can have several pages per category, including ALL.
Yeah the knights are at a good frequency, but insurmountably strong until youre large with a solid base, and even then can luck out and just smoke you.

The quests are good, and I can understand those easily, but I had tons of beastkin/onis that I could not hatch the eggs from because I didnt know where to find the upgraded hatcheries. Last patch I got the leaf hatchery from an elf so I explored everywhere I could think of to get new hatcheries and simply didnt find anything.

Yes I am certain, I reloaded my save several times and checked the EGG/ALL page each time. It only worked properly when I reloaded my save, switched the page to EGGS, then slept.

Also, getting a weird error after 4 years: attached the save.
 
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Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Yeah the knights are at a good frequency, but insurmountably strong until youre large with a solid base, and even then can luck out and just smoke you.
Traps? Lots of minion guards? But yes, fighting knights really only starts to be viable when you get to Large+.

...I had tons of beastkin/onis that I could not hatch the eggs from because I didnt know where to find the upgraded hatcheries.
I made Darkwood girls a little harder to get last hotfix.

Hatcheries come with their own quests, doesn't the Mistress talk about possible locations there?

Last patch I got the leaf hatchery from an elf so I explored everywhere I could think of to get new hatcheries and simply didnt find anything.
Well, it obviously wasn't everywhere. :p Some lairs also come with pre-built hatcheries, I forget which exactly. Maybe the forgotten temple has something?

Yes I am certain, I reloaded my save several times and checked the EGG/ALL page each time.
In that case, can you get me a save where that happens? That is, going to sleep makes the eggs not appear.
 
3.50 star(s) 8 Votes