in this chapter, it's repeated several times that Estrid is a valid candidate...
- Thread starter Maleficent
- Start date
- Sep 30, 2017
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Ello!
Than I just have to accept your opinion since mine being ignore as I would repeat myself.
As I wrote in a few post back, if MC remove Marius from the Throne it would mean a civil war between The East and the West cause of infighting King Aricellus been ignoring and if Marius die by any reason it would give both side reason to fight for the Throne themself. But you seem to mostly focus on legitimacy and forget you also mention King Aricellus overthrow the old king before him and he had no legitimacy. And yet your deny the MC what Aricellus done and would MC could have done as well but instead he decide to co-Ruler with Marius.
- Sep 30, 2017
- 114
- 82
Ello!
Yes there been mention of her becoming Queen and how most are against it but not once did anyone mention she become a candidate. When MC visit each factions leaders(ladies) he would ask each one of them becoming queen. When Princess Estrid visit MC, they did not talk much or any mention of her becoming queen.
MC doesn't mention it to her directly, but he mentions it to others. so she is a candidate.
i don't ignore your opinion, i just disagreed and argumented my point.
the moment MC removed Marius, there will be a fight for the throne even before a civil war. MC alone is enough to stabilize the west and east, he doesn't need Marius. MC commands enough respect and trust for that, alone.
and removing Marius means killing him or making him abdicate. the first case is pretty self explanatory and the consequences are clear. making him abdicate introduces a variable because then it should be Aelinia's husband that gets the legitimacy. and Marius can't choose when he quits.
we don't know how aricellus took the throne, we only know he didn't have legitimacy and it affected his rule until the very end.
Aricellus' beginnings as a kings was so illegitimate that he needed Aristhenes' power, and compromising with hostile governors to stabilize his rule. that's very bad. the worse start possible even. MC avoids all that, he gets legitimacy and power, no resistance from anyone. everyone wants to help and support his rule. and he doesn't need to worry about potential legitimate candidate that would pop up. why don't you understand that ?
If Alessia has access to the information on who is doing/guilty of what back East, then if Lydia (and therefore Diana, who insists MC release Aristhenes immediately once she hears of his arrest) are indeed working with a rebel coalition, why then has Alessia risked allying herself with women she knows are traitors? From the conversation, Lydia and Diana also both know about Alessia's spy network before campaigning MC together, thus she either has to be spying for them, or they don't have any secrets that they would be concerned about Alessia divulging to MC after he chooses their faction. The recent arrest of Aristhenes demonstrates that an alliance with MC won't save you if treason is involved, and both women have a personal stake in Aristhenes' freedom. So all the solid evidence points to both Lydia and Diana being innocent of rebellion.Lydia could be playing that role thoughshe can be as cunning as her grandfather. and she did aid her brother. she was allowed to send a letter to him to get him to pledge loyalty to MC. her father governs a western province, so he is not part of the plot (at least on a surface level).
and the first words of revolt didn't come from Felix at all, they came from Alessia, who we now knows is a leader of the spy network, so her information has more weight now. she warned MC that the eastern provinces governors were having secret meetings to break from the kingdom, and Isabella's father was in those meetings if not even presiding them. Felix having the same kind of information after his investigation adds even more credibility, and he had proof very quickly, so he might be part of that spy network too. Alessia being part of the eastern faction, she should not want the eastern province to be on bad terms with the next king, so it was even more likely that she was telling the truth.
Isabella doesn't know anything, her information has no value, she only wants to protect her father from being executed for treason, which would mean she loses everything with MC too.
Felix is loyal to MC for now, he only wants to support Isabella because he knows her from when she had her relationship with MC, and he saw that MC was in love as he proposed to her, and he saw MC got his heart broken for the second time after his first wife died. the only suspicious things about him are when he left urgently and the reason Flavia hates him for.
Also, in the prison, Aristhenes never denies any part of the "Use Isabella, Oust Marius, Control MC" plot, repeatedly doubling down on the genius of his grand scheme and that the kingdom could still be saved if MC restores his position. He's already awaiting execution, and even pleads with MC to get it over with before the revolt charges even come to light. When they do, however, he denies the charges, and insists on his innocence, even though said innocence will not change his desired fate: execution. If his family was involved, and he wanted to protect them, then he would confess, and claim that he was the only one involved, insisting that none of the family knew, or they did but refused Aristhenes' call to join.
His problem isn't treason, it's a one-track mind that therefore can't adjust to new information. Thus he can't be convinced that women can be effective in government (a sentiment shared by Aricellus, Felix, and I think Marius), or change his views that Marius will destroy Cadium, and that MC is not politically savvy enough to survive Capital politics. Therefore, he saw only one solution to protect Cadium's future: remove Marius, establish MC, and direct him through the political game. His timeline was much longer, during which he likely intended to endear himself to MC by demonstrating his worth, but then Aricellus died, and things had to be rushed, thus he over-extended himself before taking stock of the new situation (e.g., Lydia as a capable political woman, MC learning political maneuvering).
Dude, if anyone on your list, except for maybe Alessia, is still a virgin, you're doing it wrong... especially Lydia, who you pointed out is likely pregnant with MC's son.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Yeah, i don't believe her or Aristhenes had any plan to kill the King, or forcefully take over. That they had a plan for Marius is understandable...the King was getting old, poor health and his heir is known to be a catastrophe for the empire...pretty sure half the important people had one or another plan to deal with Marius.
As for Felix...i don't trust him at all, even Aristhenis is way more thrustworthy than him. His 'evidence' is completely untrustworthy and from his suggestions he is clearly involved in some plot, or playing his own game.
To a point, for example that she was training swordfighting was a new discovery for Helena, can't tell me she did that for years in the palace without anyone noticing. Also her lessons as stated at the begining were focused on things like music and being a good wife...let's just say her talents grew very fast in a span of days to a point where she should lead her own faction...
You can, she is in the military faction.
Yeah, even when you stay overnight with her, last thing in the evening is she drinking and the first thing when you wake up is her chuking on the next bottle...or to quote Lydia
The change is also completely understandable, Marius is completely and utter inapt, everyone knows, including himself.
Pretty much everyone is predicting either a assisination on him, a civil war or a power struggle if he takes over and the probable excetution of him and his family should they succed.
The MC as a heroic general is popular and has his loyal army, which is quite literally his lifeline and likely that of his family, it's no surprise that he sucks up to him when he realises the situation is getting serious, like his father health problems and overal strange behavior.
Eliana is a minor point as she tells her she is fine with her and the MC iirc.
Her hate comes mainly from whatever Felix did or tired and the MC being friends with him, also Isabella spreading rumors about being his spouse, but mainly Felix.
You are way overestimating Marius worth and that of the legitimacy he provides.
Aricellus took the throne after the previus king died, how much struggle there was is unknown, same for how many factions did aim for power or how stable the realm was, but overall he seems to be seen as a good ruler.
As for the assasination attempts, as king there are always those which want to see him gone legitimacy or not, and reason for the latest attempts are unknown.
It could be a external foe like Avila/Brennus, inside foes like the always present power hungry nobels, or the rising unrest in the east, or maybe one of his bastard sons which hates him...has little to do with how he came to power or how legitimate he is.
There was also said that the hereditary rule was abolished because too many poor rulers, so someone outside of the current royality taking over shouldn't be strange.
Then there is also the roman history, succesful military leaders which took over where rather commen and also welcome and popular with the population.
The royal family is popular to a degree, mainly in the west, and that wouldn't protect them from assasination attempts, and wouldn't protect them if Marius took over, as mentioned, good possibility they be all dead then soon after.
Marius is viewed as an utter catastrophe, pretty much by everyone, that there would be a civil war if he dies is really unlikely. I'd bet half the important people in the empire have plans of how to get rid of him.
On the other hand, the MC is popular by the people and has the loyalty of the military and good friends with Nicabar. Add to that due to foes like Brennus and Avila i bet most important factions would rather support him (like they do) and try to influence him, than try to start a conflict.
So i really doubt there would be any civil war....would there people which would try to get rid of him sure, but this will be the case either way, that is always the case of rulers, even more so if a new one takes over.
In the first place, if you argue that Aricellus had no legitimacy and that being the reason that people try to kill him, than obviously neither Marius, nor his daughters hold any legitimacy either and the same people would still try to get rid of the MC even if Marius is co-ruler, or try to kill Marius.
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- Oct 10, 2022
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I don't think I forget anything. You mentioned she had zero jealousy but if you call what happened jealousy then she had that from the beginning. When first time she accepted MC's advances, you literally forced to accept she will always be the first one. Twice if you mentioned Kaylan. Like I said pretty early in the game. When MC mentioned about Lydia date she immediately gets angry and only accepts the date when MC said she won't choose Lydia over her and gonna cancel the date. Around the mid-game, when MC mentioned Estrid she gets angry again and after reassurance from MC about she always be in-front of Estrid and Estrid marriage is mainly political she gets calmer. She is still okay with sharing MC, only thing she can't accept that she won't be the first one, so Lydia marrying MC before her makes her angry again. This is very consistent from the beginning, no change there.
Cup size don't matter that much if you drink whole bottle. Valentina and Cassia always mentioned her drinking, she constantly drinks from early game too. Nothing changed there too.
You said she has very good insight in the other characters but she could not even assess her lady-in-wait, Valentina or Marius. She was sure Marius was behind the assassination attempts, it turns out nothing. Most of the time, what she said either was not true or did not add anything valuable to what MC knew.
Like I said, she did not change much. MC, through him also we, started to learn more about her and saw her in clear light, that's about it. Situation around her changed though, so it helped us to have a better opinion on her.
The chapter that Juliana arrived is not what matters in what I said though. She built that opinion of Valentina much before than even MC arrived. As I said, Valentina is always like that, when Juliana learned more about her she noticed that. Remember MC's reply to Juliana, he was not aware Valentina's potential. So we weren't aware it either. MC learned more about her, as we did. Her only change was on her maturity and she is still struggling with it.Yeah, Juliana introduced the fact that Valentina is book smart, Helena added that her daughter has a massive memory. but those were the beginning of the change. remember which chapter Juliana arrived ?
Valentina was not really immature, i think, it's just that she spoke her mind without a filter, and that irritated people.
and she didn't have the "courage" to travel the kingdom, she was sent away so she could meet MC, because she was obsessed with him, and she was annoying everyone by constantly talking about him. she got what she wanted, and everyone was relieved, win/win.
and her skills began showing because MC was next to her daily, so she could focus on actually helping and supporting him, instead of having fantasies about him.
I am not sure you are even aware what you say, she did not forced to travel. Like you said she was insistent and her wish granted by her father. Even Cassia admit she was the that instigated that. Like you said her skills started showing but that is exactly what I said, she did not change expect growing mature which is not huge change per se, she was always like that and she started to show that. Thus, I am not even sure what we are discussing you are literally saying what I said.
I did not forget but you did not even read what I wrote. If you read it again, I did not say he became nice because MC learned his secret. He was antagonising MC at the beginning because as he said he saw MC a threat to his reign. When he could not pacify MC and MC assert dominance over him, he changed his ways and tried to buy MC by offering any of his sisters. Even MC mentioned a few times nice Marius is worse than antagonising Marius. After that, when MC protected his father and them, found Cassia. He noticed MC was not a threat to him. He is not that clever so I assume Helena pushed him in that direction. After the lessons and MC saving him from Estrid, he started to become friendly to MC. As I said it, secret part comes really late in the game and after he became friendly to MC. Though, MC having that secret, at least subconsciously, effects him and he accepts MC's authority. One of the most important part of what I said, which you seemingly missed he noticed MC is the only protection he has right now. As MC said to Cassia, Marius and his whole family are under protection of MC. He knows that, Helena knows that, princesses know that so there is no reason for him to antagonise MC.
His change is not sudden or without a reason as I explained it twice already. You are saying there should a scene why he changed his behaviour but the scenes are all there, seems like you just missed them.
A small suggestion for you, before you dismiss others opinion and stuck to yours, read what they are saying.
It depends on the choices you make. In my game, Lydia was more patient and didn't say that.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Yes, but it really doesn't change that Aelinia is bitchy, as well as an alcoholic.
Yes, she is a bit of an alcoholic and she is also showing that she is power hungry, at first I thought she would make a good Queen, but now I know that would not be a wise decision.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Yeah, not a good idea imo. Also one of her problems is that she thinks she has good ideas for the betterment of Caudium and how well she would be doing as ruler, want to be like Avila etc...except the realm doesn't accept female rulers or her radical ideas, her in power with her ideas would likely go down as well as Marius in power, if not even poorer.
But honestly her bitching and demanding attitude is what really annoys me, she behaves like the sun shines out of her ass (yet she hasn't done/provided anything of value, nor shown any qualitys which would make me want to choose her as queen), her being an alcoholic and losing her temper doesn't help.
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- Oct 10, 2022
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maybe I am not good at explaining myself. All of the characters are having responses to circumstances, they are growing, acting according to their situations etc. but none of them have huge character changes, nothing retconned for them.
For example Valentina. She raised as a princess, was not too important to Helena so she had relatively more freedom. She is a genius, extremely talented, persistent up to annoyance etc. these are all her character traits.
She believed being a good wife, learning music etc. would appeal to MC. So she tried to excel on that. Once she noticed MC was looking for mature, well mannered, self sufficient etc. in his significant other, she then focused on those. She changed her hair colour to please MC too. That is her character. So learning sword fight, getting maturity lessons, having political prowess, providing MC, using her sexuality etc. was all serving one goal.
Same goes for Aelinia, Cassia, Lydia, Marius etc. they have some goals and character traits and they are acting accordingly.
Another example is Marius, some say he changed too quickly. He did not, he has a goal that is being a king and giving safety for the people who care. He is hostile against everyone who he sees a threat to that, friendly to people supports them. He saw MC as a threat then acted accordingly then noticed MC was not a threat, so he changed his attitude. If MC align with East and choose let's say Lydia as his Queen then Marius will start to hostile towards MC again. He will become a thorn in his side and a problem he has to deal with.
While I started to create another brick, let's talk about Aelinia. She has a goal, being a prominent Queen. Anything works against this is a threat for her. She was okay with plotting against his father by aligning herself with Lydia. She was okay with sharing MC, she still is. Though, when Lydia married MC before her that is a threat for her being the Queen, that is why she lost it to both MC then to Lydia. If MC chooses her as his Queen she'll become early chapters Aelinia over again. So she did not change, circumstances did and she is acting accordingly.
For Cassia, I think people gonna be extremely surprise with her next chapter. Her goal is becoming the Queen and gaining everyone's admiration. If she notice she is not getting any of that then she will be mad at MC. We will probably see bigger response than Aelinia or any others. I am sure after her angry response, people will say she changed too much. Though she would not, she will be just acting according to her character.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Honestly not sure if Marius ever wanted to be king, he never cared about learning anything usful for it, and he is aware that him being gay would be a major problem. I think it was also stated early on that his hostile behavior was encouraged by his advisors. I think if you let him retire in some villa with his lover and no worries about money or his family he would be up for it.
I wouldn't fo as far as calling Valentina a genius, she is clever and has Anna's blessing. Anna took care of Valentina after the MC complained (and many players). The same is for her political allies, yeah she toured the kingdom years prior, but i don't think that would be enough that any governor would so willingly help her, so if anything they support the MC not her.
Personaly i'd say she had hidden talants and was always clever , but i'd rather praise Anna for taking care of her, than believe she was always that hidden genius.
I think in Aelinia's case it's simply she was portrait from a different angle early on, more sympathetic.
Like she wasn't shown to be an alcoholic at every chance (like in the last several updates you will have problems finding a scene with her where she isn't downing a bottle), or bitching around all the time... she was mad with Marius and i'd say that was justified as he behaved early on, and at least she tried being helpfull, nothing of that recently.
Cassia already is a really spoiled, arrogant, narcissistic annoyance, with nothing but her looks going for her.
She also complains since the beging if she doesn't get the attention she wants, or if a other women is shown more.
So yeah that ain't no character change
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- Sep 3, 2017
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My point is they were virgins before the MC, they've only been with him.
Yeah, and Mount Everest is a bit of a hill.
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