Ren'Py Completed Toro 7 [Ep. 7] [Tora Productions]

[Dragon59]

uh?

me complaining about the attractiveness of the female cast has absolute nothing to do with acceptance. the fuck is wrong with you?

we are talking about a porn game here in case you didnt notice. i am straight, i like my women without penises when iam jacking off.

having the only 10/10 chick in the game, while the rest of the girls are 6/10 at best, be trans is fine if you advertise your game as such. which didnt happen. hence my dissapointment. its not rocket science.

i have literally trans ppl in my life which i love and respect. gtfo here talking about acceptance and making this some woke victim olympics.

First off, Toro7 definitely fits on the AVN side of the scale.
You really had to use the W word at the end, didn't you? That reveals so much. Buh Bye!

 

[Dragon59]

Well, certainly. A moving, inconsistent time slot and not airing the episodes in story order were a death knell for a new show. The smell test says Fox realized quickly that the tone was different than what they had hoped for from Whedon (too much diversity and not enough sexy teen girls) and did everything they could to bury it early before it gained too much traction.

I remember decades earlier when NBC treated Science Fiction the same way. Bad time slots, moving around the schedule, then cancellation. When the SciFi channel first began, they ran a lot of those series.

It's an interesting thought to wonder how much religion-based hatred comes down to those people having poor reading/language/comprehension skills. For example, calling yourself "Christian" but somehow missing/misunderstanding everything that Jesus ever said or did about love and acceptance. Or with homosexuality specifically...what exaclty do they think was happening when a bunch of guys spent 40 days in tents out in the desert???

That reminds me of how it explicitly states in their Bible that the sin of Sodom was the abuse of hospitality--how they treated travelers to their city. The rules of hospitality were VERY important in desert and snowbound societies, where someone turned away would likely die. But some church father centuries ago had a problem with same-sex interaction so he of course ephasized that part.

So many so-called Christians do not take the time or effort, not only to study their book, but to understand the historical and geographical context.

And the whole entire world is just like you, so there should never be anything thought, written, produced, etc. that doesn't suit your individual taste! The fuck, world? How dare you dispespect this little boy in such a fashion? He is the only person in the world who matters!!! If he's not happy then dammit I quit!

The World: sadly, you are our problem

There are some people who are afraid of diversity, it makes them unsure of their place in the world when they realize that their cherished values/prejudices are not universal. Some fortunately grow out of it. Unfortunately, some don't. Some treat the world like a game where anyone not like them is just an NPC (or a beta cuck) and of no consequence.

 

[Tlaero]

Re: Music and Sound Effects.

It's perfectly fair to want these things in a game. They're just expensive in terms of both money and time.

The license for the music in the intro in Toro 7 cost Mortze something like 200 Euros. Every one of those sorts of things he purchases comes out of the same budget as models to render. I think we can all agree that the visuals are more important than background music. And I would be very surprised if the marginal increase in patronage caused by him putting that music in ever paid back the cost.

If you go with free music, there's a lot of time searching, listening, etc. And that's time that, once again, could be spent writing or rendering.

Sure, if there was someone who loved working with audio, and was willing to do the audio work for our games for free, I'd be happy to talk to them. Unfortunately, we're only making enough for me to take no payment and Mortze to just scrape by. If we had to pay someone else, Mortze wouldn't be able to afford to do this job.

Tlaero

 

[Joshy92]

I'll be honest I don't really care about music in visual novels

 

[TGafy]

Bloodguard I've noticed you had facepalmed several recent posts that was not in favor of having music in vns. Have you considered opening a playlist outside of the game? It'll be a win-win situation that way. Devs won't have to put the extra time working songs into their games and you get music while you play.

 

[Bloodguard]

Bloodguard I've noticed you had facepalmed several recent posts that was not in favor of having music in vns. Have you considered opening a playlist outside of the game? It'll be a win-win situation that way. Devs won't have to put the extra time working songs into their games and you get music while you play.

I do that if I have to, but the Devs usually have a vision for their games, it would be much preferred if they included music to help realize that vision. Honestly, the lack of music does not bother me as much as no sound effects/background audio. Those I can't add myself.

 

[Tulrek]

Bloodguard I've noticed you had facepalmed several recent posts that was not in favor of having music in vns. Have you considered opening a playlist outside of the game? It'll be a win-win situation that way. Devs won't have to put the extra time working songs into their games and you get music while you play.

Exactly. I mute all my VN and play my own playlist from youtube.
I like the sound effects though.
But I really prefere choosing my own music than be stuck with the same songs/musics that loop again and again.

My humble opinion though !
No lessons given to anyone so... peace.

 

[FookU2]

And your use of the term stay-at-home-mons is less egregious but it is clearly outdated. Since you seem to love stats so much, why don't you look up the demographics of stay-at-home-moms. You will find that in 2023 there are virtually no SAHM anymore other than almost exclusively wealthy, white women because the economics of single-income homes are no longer feasible for the vast majority of working-class families. So your sweeping generalisms make even less sense since in reality they only apply to a small subgrouping of "women" in the first place.

But the lack of logic in your post is made even more glaring when you say something telling like "every person I know who watches soaps is a woman" as evidence that your generalization must be true. Clearly you do not understand that the entire world is made up many different people most of which are not exaxtly like the ones you know personally.

Stay-at-home-moms aren't as outdated as you choose to believe. I promise you I know a ton of them, and they aren't a part of any wealthy group, and they are more than just white women. So, your statement "almost exclusively wealthy, white women" isn't even close to the truth.

Every soap watching person I know being a woman shows percentages. And that number is very much higher than "these 5 people I know." Just for the sake of math, let's just say that number is 5000 people. Let's say out of those 5000 people I know, 500 of them watch soaps (or reality shows, since that's what that demographic is supposedly going to, according to the link I posted). That means 10% of the people I know watch soaps. And while demographics change depending on area, that is still a percentage. Out of 5000 people, 500 watch soaps....10% of people watch soaps. That is in Tennessee. Maybe it's just my area. Maybe the next 5000 people down the road won't watch at all, and that will change the numbers, but that is still stats, and still facts.
And I find it hard to believe that the percentage of people I know/have met who are part of a certain demographic is that much different than the percentage of people in any other area who are a part of that same demographic. I am very well aware of all the different types of people in the world. Sure, there's a chance I could walk up to 5000 people, asking them all the same question, and get the exact same answer from those 5000 people, then walk up to another 5000 people from 500 miles away, asking them all that same question, but get 5000 totally different answers, but that's not very likely. You are likely to get the same percentages from the 2nd group as you got from the first group. It's just numbers.

You are also getting butthurt over semantics. Just because I didn't use "most" or "a lot" in my sentence, you took it word for word, assuming I am dumb enough to think literally every single woman in the world sits at home, doing nothing accept watching soaps. That's pretty ridiculous. I have faith that nobody is that ignorant.

 

[Ottoeight]

I guess some people really need to be reminded that NO ONE requested lessons in morality/history/religion/ethics/economics/social sciences from anyone in this thread and in F95 forum.

 

[Gato21]

Re: Music and Sound Effects.

It's perfectly fair to want these things in a game. They're just expensive in terms of both money and time.

The license for the music in the intro in Toro 7 cost Mortze something like 200 Euros. Every one of those sorts of things he purchases comes out of the same budget as models to render. I think we can all agree that the visuals are more important than background music. And I would be very surprised if the marginal increase in patronage caused by him putting that music in ever paid back the cost.

If you go with free music, there's a lot of time searching, listening, etc. And that's time that, once again, could be spent writing or rendering.

Sure, if there was someone who loved working with audio, and was willing to do the audio work for our games for free, I'd be happy to talk to them. Unfortunately, we're only making enough for me to take no payment and Mortze to just scrape by. If we had to pay someone else, Mortze wouldn't be able to afford to do this job.

Tlaero

The real reason not to add audio:


JK. Thanks for responding and best of luck.

 

[Dragon59]

Stay-at-home-moms aren't as outdated as you choose to believe. I promise you I know a ton of them, and they aren't a part of any wealthy group, and they are more than just white women. So, your statement "almost exclusively wealthy, white women" isn't even close to the truth.

Every soap watching person I know being a woman shows percentages. And that number is very much higher than "these 5 people I know." Just for the sake of math, let's just say that number is 5000 people. Let's say out of those 5000 people I know, 500 of them watch soaps (or reality shows, since that's what that demographic is supposedly going to, according to the link I posted). That means 10% of the people I know watch soaps. And while demographics change depending on area, that is still a percentage. Out of 5000 people, 500 watch soaps....10% of people watch soaps. That is in Tennessee. Maybe it's just my area. Maybe the next 5000 people down the road won't watch at all, and that will change the numbers, but that is still stats, and still facts.
And I find it hard to believe that the percentage of people I know/have met who are part of a certain demographic is that much different than the percentage of people in any other area who are a part of that same demographic. I am very well aware of all the different types of people in the world. Sure, there's a chance I could walk up to 5000 people, asking them all the same question, and get the exact same answer from those 5000 people, then walk up to another 5000 people from 500 miles away, asking them all that same question, but get 5000 totally different answers, but that's not very likely. You are likely to get the same percentages from the 2nd group as you got from the first group. It's just numbers.

You are also getting butthurt over semantics. Just because I didn't use "most" or "a lot" in my sentence, you took it word for word, assuming I am dumb enough to think literally every single woman in the world sits at home, doing nothing accept watching soaps. That's pretty ridiculous. I have faith that nobody is that ignorant.

According to the latest figures, around 10 million women and 2 million men in the US watch soap operas. The percentage of watchers who are men is cited as 22%. With a total adult population of 258 million, and women comprising 50.4% of that population, that implies that approximately 7.7% of adult women in the US watch soap operas, 1.6% for adult men.

Edit: Back in the 80s, viewership was around 50 million viewers.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

IMHO sounds/music are bad far more often than they enhance a game, and feel like a crutch for lousy writing most of the time. I understand that there are lot of folks out there who are uncomfortable with silence, but anyone can always play their own choice of bgm. Game sounds are often either (a) very sporadic and their unexpected random occurences can take me out of the narrative, or (b) insanely repetitive, like a standard "door" sound every time you change locations ad nauseum (even when there are no doors). They are almost always (c) problematic/uneven volume-wise. And I don't see what randomly shoehorned in free-use music tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story or visuals adds other than distractions. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

I know this is just a porn forum but we should try to be civil.

They are replying to the energy you give out. Tit for tat. You started it with your bafflingly aggressive reply to Tlaero.

Agreed and agreed. I tend to react to aggression with aggression and certainly lost my grip on civility. From my perusal of this thread it seems that the dev is engaged and courteouos, and my reaction to an insulting post by a rude member took me down a rabbithole.

Apologies to the dev, who doesn't need any dipshit white knights to speak for her.

 

[Cabin Fever]

And I don't see what randomly shoehorned in free-use music tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story or visuals adds other than distractions. Just my 2 cents.

Not everybody enjoys music in their game. That much we can all agree on. But I think you got it backwards. When a dev adds music, it's pretty much always to help set the tone and mood of the scene. It would take a really lousy dev to spend time and money to add random "tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story". But muting the dev-chosen music and playing your own is what by definition "tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story or visuals adds other than distractions."

 

[JustJeff722]

A good game, but shorter than I expected! Only took me a few hours to play the whole game.

 

[turbojoe]

Re: Music and Sound Effects.

It's perfectly fair to want these things in a game. They're just expensive in terms of both money and time.

The license for the music in the intro in Toro 7 cost Mortze something like 200 Euros. Every one of those sorts of things he purchases comes out of the same budget as models to render. I think we can all agree that the visuals are more important than background music. And I would be very surprised if the marginal increase in patronage caused by him putting that music in ever paid back the cost.

If you go with free music, there's a lot of time searching, listening, etc. And that's time that, once again, could be spent writing or rendering.

Sure, if there was someone who loved working with audio, and was willing to do the audio work for our games for free, I'd be happy to talk to them. Unfortunately, we're only making enough for me to take no payment and Mortze to just scrape by. If we had to pay someone else, Mortze wouldn't be able to afford to do this job.

Tlaero

No problem - running Epica while playing

But a deepwater background noise would have increased the oppressive atmosphere of this game.

 

[dolfe67]

Not everybody enjoys music in their game. That much we can all agree on. But I think you got it backwards. When a dev adds music, it's pretty much always to help set the tone and mood of the scene. It would take a really lousy dev to spend time and money to add random "tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story". But muting the dev-chosen music and playing your own is what by definition "tracks that have nothing whatsoever to do with the story or visuals adds other than distractions."

"When a dev adds music, it's pretty much always to help set the tone and mood of the scene."

Not at all. The best ones yes. But a lot of those games have random copyright-free bgm, which you can hear in multiple games.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

When a dev adds music, it's pretty much always to help set the tone and mood of the scene.

I appreciate your opinion. Mine is just different. Maybe some really good devs out there do this, but I have not yet played a game where it felt that way to me. I have only experienced "here's what we could get for free," but I certainly don't claim to have played all games so maybe I am missing out.

But a lot of those games have random copyright-free bgm

That has been my experience, dolfe67, but obv that only applies to games I have played. And of course ancillary to that...is the reality that free source music is most likely going to be elevator music versions of recognizable songs or original songs that are probably not very good (relatively speaking) because if they were the songwriter/band/estate would be repped by aggressive copyright litigation firms. Y'aint getting Yellow Submarine for Toro7, although that would be hilarious.

deepwater backgroung noise would have increased the oppressive atmosphere of this game.

Now THAT is an awesome idea. Creaking metal, gas-venting hisses - those would definitely add to the atmosphere like the best submarine movies.

 

[Tlaero]

Apologies to the dev, who doesn't need any dipshit white knights to speak for her.

No problem at all. Intent is everything, and yours was fine.

Tlaero

 

[Tlaero]

I suspect that we can all agree that bad audio is worse than no audio. There's probably disagreement on the precise line between "good" and "bad" but for the purpose of this post, just assume that when I say "bad" audio it's whatever you think of as bad.

It's perfectly reasonable to want good audio in your games. And, even people who don't like audio can disable it in the menu.

The challenge is that making good audio is a completely different skillset than writing, programming, and making images.

I enjoy telling stories and like getting better at it through practice.
I'm a professional software engineer, so the coding in these games is simple and fun.
Mortze enjoys making visual art and likes getting better at it through practice.

But neither of us like working with audio nor would we enjoy getting better at it. So, if we tried to add audio to our games, we would almost definitely add bad audio.

To get good audio for our games, we'd need to meet someone who is enthusiastic about audio and would enjoy getting better at it through practice. I suspect that AI is going to make the software equivalent of a foley stage (if one doesn't already exist). If someone with passion around this wants to work with me, please reach out.

Tlaero