Ren'Py Completed TP: The Class Next Door [v0.12.1] [9thCrux]

[Dipsode]

Well constructed, well described, a real novel or almost. And beautiful pictures, but...
I'm not English or American and the phrasing makes it hard for me to read, to start and especially, the disappearance of little words like "it", idiotisms, elisions ... Not to mention some facts and typos that are almost inevitable ...
It really makes things very difficult to read, comparable to the famous "engrish".
For my part I would have preferred a more classical English...
As they say around here: MJDCJDR (Well, I'm saying that, I'm saying nothing )

 

[Phooploid]

I've been playing this for a bit(I'm at the end of the school tour), and while overall this seems to have a lot of promise(a lot of things are done pretty well or even very well/great), this novel has some serious and major flaws.
For starters, the grammar isn't really up to snuff. It starts decently -- with just a few minor errors -- but it gets increasingly worse and worse the further you get into it. At the start it didn't really bother me, but further in it starts to grind my gears a bit. The author could really use someone to check his grammar.

Besides that, the thing that bothered me most, was the really uninteresting and irrelevant tangents the author seems to go on. The sight of the plot is lost just way too often, and you get some tangents about really irrelevant and boring details -- like that a teacher can use computers, textbooks and ... in his job. I mean... Okay...
Things like that just make parts of this novel a chore to read.
It's just overly detailed, to the point of irrelevance. Good writers write detail. They however write relevant detail. Here it feels more like detail for the sake of detail. Like the author knows good writers write detail, he/she just fails to grasp what and where to input said detail to make the writing good/better. Because someone with half a brain should know a lot of the things that are explained -- let alone someone who has experience in the field(the MC). It feels a bit like you're being talked down to (as if you're a child) when reading this novel.

Some parts of the writing are also somewhat cringe and/or unrealistic. But I guess that has more to do with the portrayal with that characters overall. I guess that could be a style thing...(or maybe cultural??) I personally don't find it very appealing though. Things are set up as pretty realistic and serious on one hand, but on the other hand, the characters seem overly naive and make some really odd remarks at times.
This novel could also use some humor. Because I failed to find any -- which make a lot of the interactions pretty dry.

Not really sure what to think about this novel overall. On one hand it looks promising(good art, decent setting and setup and hell, even the writing shows promise at points), but on the other hand, the major flaws just hold it back -- a lot. The author clearly has good intentions and is willing to put in the effort. He/She just seems really inexperienced and is probably a non-English speaker(and/or dyslectic -- because at times words just seem to be missing).
All I can say is: keep going and gain some more writing experience. Because for me that's where the main issue lies: the writing.

 

[9thCrux]

I've been playing this for a bit(I'm at the end of the school tour), and while overall this seems to have a lot of promise(a lot of things are done pretty well or even very well/great), this novel has some serious and major flaws.
For starters, the grammar isn't really up to snuff. It starts decently -- with just a few minor errors -- but it gets increasingly worse and worse the further you get into it. At the start it didn't really bother me, but further in it starts to grind my gears a bit. The author could really use someone to check his grammar.

Besides that, the thing that bothered me most, was the really uninteresting and irrelevant tangents the author seems to go on. The sight of the plot is lost just way too often, and you get some tangents about really irrelevant and boring details -- like that a teacher can use computers, textbooks and ... in his job. I mean... Okay...
Things like that just make parts of this novel a chore to read.
It's just overly detailed, to the point of irrelevance. Good writers write detail. They however write relevant detail. Here it feels more like detail for the sake of detail. Like the author knows good writers write detail, he/she just fails to grasp what and where to input said detail to make the writing good/better. Because someone with half a brain should know a lot of the things that are explained -- let alone someone who has experience in the field(the MC). It feels a bit like you're being talked down to (as if you're a child) when reading this novel.

Some parts of the writing are also somewhat cringe and/or unrealistic. But I guess that has more to do with the portrayal with that characters overall. I guess that could be a style thing...(or maybe cultural??) I personally don't find it very appealing though. Things are set up as pretty realistic and serious on one hand, but on the other hand, the characters seem overly naive and make some really odd remarks at times.
This novel could also use some humor. Because I failed to find any -- which make a lot of the interactions pretty dry.

Not really sure what to think about this novel overall. On one hand it looks promising(good art, decent setting and setup and hell, even the writing shows promise at points), but on the other hand, the major flaws just hold it back -- a lot. The author clearly has good intentions and is willing to put in the effort. He/She just seems really inexperienced and is probably a non-English speaker.
All I can say is: keep going and gain some more writing experience. Because for me that's where the main issue lies: the writing.

Yeah...
You have an awesome attention to details, you noticed very important details, your overview is SO reliable and meaningful; you notice details like the fact that I have stated many times that English is not my native language... and it has been talked about throughout the comments in both my threads.
Oh, right! You didn't... you just throw it last like some form of assumption...

-I'm not a native English speaker. Some of my dialogs will need some grammar/orthographic corrections later on.

This is the very first game I develop, so please be patient with me, also English is my second language so you can expect some funny grammar or spelling errors.

This is a leaked early-access version, I have not released episode two to the public.

I plan to include spelling and grammar corrections when I release episode two for everyone.

By the end of the school tour... you haven't read shit and you're already judging the characters as "overly naive"? Unrealistic is trying to pass judgement based on a narrow and self-centered perception of what 'realistic' is. That is what is actually overly naive.

By the end of the school tour... and you already think you know what the plot is about? Please.

 

[9thCrux]

I know in this day and age we shouldn't assume gender but...

View attachment 527383

Spelling correction... that did more harm that anything else...
Changed my "Miss" for "Ms." between other things...
Thanks for pointing that out, I will fix it, she is a woman... like in reality. Not in her imagination.

 

[Dipsode]

Just to add my 2 pence to what Phooploid said.
Many well-known authors such as Balzac, Joyce, Aesop ... make descriptions that have almost no interest for the action and the unfolding of the book, it's just a question of atmosphere... You either like it or you don't... (Especially Joyce !) But it's a style.
For my part, I find the unfolding of the book quite realistic (especially as a former teacher). There are simplifications, ok, but it's a porn game (rather an erotic game, for the moment), not a candidate for the Nobel Prize for Literature. It's still much more evolved than most of the stuff you find here.
MJDCJDR

 

[9thCrux]

myuhinny

New content from that I can see but I started from my last save so not sure on the dream.

You have to start a new game.
Old saves wont work; recently I added a ton of code, from variables to sideimages.
Start a new save and use Ctrl key to skip.

 

[9thCrux]

Just to add my 2 pence to what Phooploid said.
Many well-known authors such as Balzac, Joyce, Aesop ... make descriptions that have almost no interest for the action and the unfolding of the book, it's just a question of atmosphere... You either like it or you don't... (Especially Joyce !) But it's a style.
For my part, I find the unfolding of the book quite realistic (especially as a former teacher). There are simplifications, ok, but it's a porn game (rather an erotic game, for the moment), not a candidate for the Nobel Prize for Literature. It's still much more evolved than most of the stuff you find here.
MJDCJDR

I remember reading some Stephen King books and I noticed how he describes a ton of details before taking a single step in the current action he was describing...

Like Stephen King saying that his main character was about to open the door, but then he smells something that reminds him of something from his childhood, and then he spends ten pages describing a smell and memories...

I like that style.

 

[Mormont]

He/She just seems really inexperienced and is probably a non-English speaker(and/or dyslectic -- because at times words just seem to be missing).

I've seen worse I've seen games where the dialogue is so bad you can't even play it and as the dev has stated English is the second language it's not always easy for non English speakers to get it right away 9 times out of 10 there is always going to be an issue but over time that will get better. And it's dyslexic but that's also not an issue here.

 

[Phooploid]

Yeah...
You have an awesome attention to details, you noticed very important details, your overview is SO reliable and meaningful; you notice details like the fact that I have stated many times that English is not my native language... and it has been talked about throughout the comments in both my threads.
Oh, right! You didn't... you just throw it last like some form of assumption...

What a weird reaction. Am I obliged to read all your notes and all your reactions before leaving a comment or something? And yes, it was an assumption -- an assumption based on your writing in the game.

No clue why you're taking it as some kind of offense -- especially since apparently it's true.

By the end of the school tour... you haven't read shit and you're already judging the characters as "overly naive"? Unrealistic is trying to pass judgement based on a narrow and self-centered perception of 'realistic' that is what is actually overly naive.

By the end of the school tour... and you already think you know what the plot is about? Please.

I am aware I haven't "read shit". At that point I just felt it was enough for me. I stopped reading/playing a bit after that -- I think I've summed up as to why above.
Or am I also obliged to play your entire game before having an opinion?

Overall just a weird and hostile reaction. I get it isn't fun to read something negative about something you made, but I fear you'll have to learn to deal with it. It's part of the job. I just played the game, I didn't like it and gave my opinion. Nothing more to it. Do with it what you will.

 

[Phooploid]

I've seen worse I've seen games where the dialogue is so bad you can't even play it and as the dev has stated English is the second language it's not always easy for non English speakers to get it right away 9 times out of 10 there is always going to be an issue but over time that will get better. And it's dyslexic but that's also not an issue here.

I agree. It's very legible and you can clearly see he put in some effort.
Still can't help that at times it annoyed me a bit -- and I'm a non-English speaker myself.

But as you said: there are games that are MUCH worse.

 

[9thCrux]

I've seen worse I've seen games where the dialogue is so bad you can't even play it and as the dev has stated English is the second language it's not always easy for non English speakers to get it right away 9 times out of 10 there is always going to be an issue but over time that will get better. And it's dyslexic but that's also not an issue here.

English is a backwards language, characterized by a narrow and overly simplified sentence structure.

In most languages you don't start to throw adjectives before even defining what is that you're talking about, and you don't overly simplify sentences so people can try to grasp what you're trying to say.

In most languages you first define your subject and then you go on saying whatever is that you're going to say about it.
In other languages people understand and include implicit, related, associated concepts, and ideas to their sentences; they don't have to narrow it down to child-like level.

It seems backwards if you see it from both perspectives, I guess that's why some people would think about dyslexia...
English seems like a dyslexic, and special people language to me.

 

[fotogaik]

I'm Polish and throwing adjectives before a noun is perfectly normal. I think it was mentioned you're a native Spanish speaker, and from my limited exposure to Spanish it would seem the case, so adjectives after noun are the language norm in Spanish, IIRC.

At a risk of sounding like a groupie fanboy...

Besides that, the thing that bothered me most, was the really uninteresting and irrelevant tangents the author seems to go on. The sight of the plot is lost just way too often, and you get some tangents about really irrelevant and boring details -- like that a teacher can use computers, textbooks and ... in his job. I mean... Okay...

That might be you. I always hated Chekhov's gun where law of conservation of detail means everything is relevant and you need to piece items together. All items are MacGuffins, every interaction is a puzzle and every conversation is meaningful.
The world is like a jigsaw that you put together, not like a picture where you notice interesting things.
Sure, the pace picks up slowly, but having a lot of descriptions is not necessarily bad writing -- especially since this is storytelling and a visual novel where you make choices. Writing it like a classic novel would force plot on you. This is something I recall Rich Burlew (Giant in the Playground) recommended for game masters here:

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A classic novel would have this description:

The party entered the wizard's study. Passing the bookcases, a chair, the leader approached the desk. Books lied all over the desk in disarray, but what caught his attention was the single red quill pen, eight inches in length, standing in a brass pot of ink on the desk.

A game master might present it like this:

You enter the wizard's study. There are some bookcases, a desk, and a chair. There are books all over the place, and a single red quill pen, eight inches in length, stands in a brass pot of ink on the desk.

It would immediately focus your interest on the pen. Sure, good enough for a quick session, but bad storytelling and certainly a bad way to engage players. He then proceeds to explain how to add texture to the description:

You enter the wizard's study. A musty smell fills the air, and swirls of dust follow you as you move. A pair of oak bookcases sit on opposite sides of the room, each filled with leather-bound tomes of assorted shades of brown. On the left bookcase, one shelf has broken, spilling its contents over the shelf below and the floor. A massive desk, at least seven feet in length, fills the center of the room, with dozens of tiny brass-handled drawers. A large book lies open on the desk, near a single red quill pen, eight inches in length, standing in a brass pot of ink.

This is good storytelling. It will make you explore the world more, it will make you feel the game world better.

Things like that just make parts of this novel a chore to read.
It's just overly detailed, to the point of irrelevance. Good writers write detail. They however write relevant detail. Here it feels more like detail for the sake of detail. Like the author knows good writers write detail, he/she just fails to grasp what and where to input said detail to make the writing good/better. Because someone with half a brain should know a lot of the things that are explained -- let alone someone who has experience in the field(the MC). It feels a bit like you're being talked down to (as if you're a child) when reading this novel.

The MC is starting a job as a teacher, having been a financial analyst earlier in his life. I found Miss Smith's dialogue to be fairly accurate for a supervisor advising an employee starting work at a new place.

Just be thankful we weren't forced to read through OHSA training ;-)

 

[RPJames]

The game has potential. The misspellings doesn't bother me too much as it is an early release and I am sure there are to be more changes. I like the story and the models are yummy.
I am looking forward to seeing more.
If there was one thing I would add/change maybe add a MAP icon so you don't have to click so much to get to the school or other locations that may be added in the future. But even this isn't a killer.
Good luck with this and I look forward to seeing what you create.

 

[MotorcycleU]

able to do anything with Tiffany yet?

 

[Teflonmike]

able to do anything with Tiffany yet?

Nope

 

[flanby]

It's the first time I play the game, and I loved it. I don't care very much the spellings, because English is not my native language, so I'm not aware of them. But the renders, the story with the slow pace and dialogues are very good. I don´t know why the dev isn't on patreon, because would be easier to him get support there, but I wish he continues with the project because the game deserves it.

 

[retnavgunner]

I was bored so thought I would give this a try. I will not complain about grammar or spelling, and I will not debate proper sentence structure or whether an adjective is before or after the noun. Then again, English is my native language, so that must mean I am a dyslexic special language person, and I have no clue what I am talking about anyhow, so you can just ignore everything I say. My problem with the writing is what I would call unnecessary words. For example: "Hi Mr. {last name}, I am Mrs. Smith, Mr. Smith's wife. We share the same name." Since they are married, and share the same last name, telling me they shared the same last name wasn't really needed.

Another problem is maybe not understanding what is said. If someone tells me they are going to a steakhouse because they love steak, then I think of t-bone, porterhouse, rib eye, etc. I do not think of pork-chop, and even when I visited Europe, steak was beef, and it was the same way in Spain when I visited there.

I do have a question. Is the narrator (named 'self'), a narrator, an inner voice, the person's thoughts, a living entity, an AI, or what? I found it confusing when the inner voice, or whatever it was, had a conversation with itself, and/or the other person, and even made the statement that he/she/it would not abandon the MC and daughter if they decided to always be together. Maybe they have an alien residing in their brain, who knows.

I read earlier that the dreams would reflect the path the MC was on. So, if I wasn't on Joan or Mrs Smith's path from the start, I am going to have a vivid dream about pork chops, a dream so good that I would consider crying because the dream was interrupted? Holy shit, what kind of pork chops were they? I thought I would dream about Tiffany, so I guess this means if I am on her path, I am doomed to a life of dreaming about pork chops? If that is the case, I feel really bad for the MC

This is more of a personal observation, but why even include the house in the beginning? I am sure the MC would know if it was furnished or not, and even if they didn't, they could still live there even if they wanted new furniture. The whole house episode didn't really fit since it was decided to go to a hotel anyhow, and talk about looking for another house in the mean time. The dev could have saved some time and not even bother with the house and just go straight to the hotel. I pray I never live in a city that has no furniture stores. Hell, the cost of shipping from an online retailer for living room, bed room and dining room furniture would be astronomical. I could understand if it was a small town, village, or whatever, but a city?

On a more positive note, I will applaud the renders and the use of varied models (looks, body size, etc.)

 

[juanito]

news on a Mac version?

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

9thCrux, for dialogue as you continue to make this game, you might want to consult my post on clitics, here. I realize English isn't your first language, so this is meant as more of a help to you, not a criticism. It should make characters sound more like native English speakers: https://f95zone.to/threads/tp-the-class-next-door-ep-2-v0-5-1-9thcrux.35827/page-9#post-2682131

 

[zeph19]

9 reviews, 4.5 stars and the preview pictures gave off the impression bundled with it being called EP 2 0.5 that there is way more to do than currently possible. BAIT.

I can only say that the girls look like snacks and the setting is great. You will surely fix the spelling and flesh out the game, so Mr. developer - keep doing your thing and give us more content!

Personally I hope it doesn't take too long for relationships to develop.