Collection VN Others Unity Completed VenusBlood HOLLOW International [v1.0.3 + Fandiscs] [Ninetail & Dual Tail]

[Alkaid_]

I dislike the forward guard/decoy stuff because it's basically just abusing AI that's too dumb to understand that targeting the thing that will be defended every time is a bad idea.

 

[ShinV]

What about the initial assessment that you made about the target being positioned based on where it was targeting the original division? When VH takes the agro, do the enemies recalculate their target so they will always go for the decoy?

When Forward Guard and Defense Formation activate their cover, the attack animation shows the unit being covered by the appropriate guarding unit. D2 and D3 were always single-unit divisions. In the earlier tests, I always had the units in slot 6, which was also where I had the VH decoy without FG. In the final test, I put D2's unit in the same slot as the FG unit (slot 5) and had D3's unit in slot 6 as usual, and got both an animation where the decoy was covered (eD2 target), and an animation of the FG unit covered by the slot 1 Guarder (eD3 target). Thus, it seems VH preserves original targeting location.

 

[Archaon11111]

I love the gameplay in this

 

[desmosome]

Well I did some testing with vanguard's honor and you definitely need the ranged and flank null on the divisions being defended.

My conclusions:

1. Ranged and flank attacks need to be nulled by the divisions being defended.
2. It doesn't matter who in the VH division is actually holding the VH skill.
3. Once the attack is redirected at the VH division, all normal rules of targeting applies.

My conclusion for the optimal efficiency for setting up the VH divisions is like this. Divisions 2 and 3 need to have flank and ranged null. They also will need the assortment of barriers and a bit of healing to ensure they don't get owned by field/shell/self destruct. After that, load up on DPS (ideally with ranged attacks). The vanguard division doesn't bother with flank and ranged null. Use decoy unit with target miss on slot 1. Super tank on slot 2. Then fill up the rest with healing, cross + all null, support skills, bounty/treasure hunt. You should have at least some Ambush alert so that the decoy unit doesn't get pushed into the back line.

If I remember correctly from VBF, flank and ranged null equipment appears after tier 7... So until then, it's probably not really worth it to bother with this stuff. You could probably make one VH battalion work with horus and haunted house in the earlier chapters... but ehh.

 

[Alkaid_]

Out of curiosity, what's the difference between the True routes (spoiler-lite) and the 'normal' ones? Is the True an entire extra chapter or a fork in the stuff that happens, or is it simply a different ending? And at what point do you know that you're on one? I'm actually trying to specifically avoid True Law and going for Normal Law instead by keeping Sylvia and Anora's affections not too high but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

I think it says 'normal law' so that's what I'm on. Hm. Normal is the difficulty but it would probably say "True Law" if it was that.

 

[Ceres82]

Does anyone have any fantastic divisions? I'm in Chapter 8 and playing to go through everything like I did in Frontier, but it'd be nice to have "fuck you" divisions to speed through some of the more annoying bits.

 

[Ceres82]

Out of curiosity, what's the difference between the True routes (spoiler-lite) and the 'normal' ones? Is the True an entire extra chapter or a fork in the stuff that happens, or is it simply a different ending? And at what point do you know that you're on one? I'm actually trying to specifically avoid True Law and going for Normal Law instead by keeping Sylvia and Anora's affections not too high but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

I think it says 'normal law' so that's what I'm on. Hm. Normal is the difficulty but it would probably say "True Law" if it was that.

True Route is more difficult and has an extra chapter from what I remember of Frontier. If you want to avoid it your first run it looks like you should have Anora and Sylvia at under 8 affection each from what the walkthrough says so if you're under that for both you should be fine.

 

[desmosome]

Lol I just finished Alioth's mission... that shit was insane. Barely made it in time for S++.

 

[Alkaid_]

Lol I just finished Alioth's mission... that shit was insane. Barely made it in time for S++.

What difficulty? The only thing I needed to do was put wraith slaying items on a few of my DPS characters and it was a cinch.

 

[Alkaid_]

True Route is more difficult and has an extra chapter from what I remember of Frontier. If you want to avoid it your first run it looks like you should have Anora and Sylvia at under 8 affection each from what the walkthrough says so if you're under that for both you should be fine.

Hm, I see. Is it an addendum chapter or an alternate turn of events? Basically, is there a point to doing Chaos->True Chaos or should I just go straight into the True Route in my NG+?

 

[ShinV]

Well I did some testing with vanguard's honor and you definitely need the ranged and flank null on the divisions being defended.

My conclusions:

1. Ranged and flank attacks need to be nulled by the divisions being defended.
2. It doesn't matter who in the VH division is actually holding the VH skill.
3. Once the attack is redirected at the VH division, all normal rules of targeting applies.

My conclusion for the optimal efficiency for setting up the VH divisions is like this. Divisions 2 and 3 need to have flank and ranged null. They also will need the assortment of barriers and a bit of healing to ensure they don't get owned by field/shell/self destruct. After that, load up on DPS (ideally with ranged attacks). The vanguard division doesn't bother with flank and ranged null. Use decoy unit with target miss on slot 1. Super tank on slot 2. Then fill up the rest with healing, cross + all null, support skills, bounty/treasure hunt. You should have at least some Ambush alert so that the decoy unit doesn't get pushed into the back line.

If I remember correctly from VBF, flank and ranged null equipment appears after tier 7... So until then, it's probably not really worth it to bother with this stuff. You could probably make one VH battalion work with horus and haunted house in the earlier chapters... but ehh.

How was this tested? I'm almost sure I did things with as little chance of screwing up as possible. I might have had Surround Null while testing, but that isn't supposed to stop Flank/Range Attack, right?

Range Null is a leader skill on [Devil] Succubus, [Undead] Haunted House, [Undead] Undead Lord, and [God] Seraph and a natural skill on [Demihuman] Horus. Could be more. Sub-commander Regina gets it as a title skill, and Cheerful Gal Sylvia has it as a leader skill. Also granted by R12 shield and R10 vestment.

Flank Null is a leader skill on too many common units to name. Haven't found it as a natural skill yet. For (sub-)commanders, both Cheerful Gal Sylvia and Doris have it as a natural skill. Also granted by R12 shield, R11 armor, and R11 beast accessory.

 

[ShinV]

Hm, I see. Is it an addendum chapter or an alternate turn of events? Basically, is there a point to doing Chaos->True Chaos or should I just go straight into the True Route in my NG+?

"True" Law/Chaos both involve one extra combat mission (quotations because I don't think the game ever refers to them as such, but I could be wrong). Individual character endings are accessed by not doing these, so it's in your best interest to fulfill the conditions, save before the choice that triggers them, view the normal ending branch, then reload and go for extended cut. Beware the difficulty spike.

 

[desmosome]

How was this tested? I'm almost sure I did things with as little chance of screwing up as possible. I might have had Surround Null while testing, but that isn't supposed to stop Flank/Range Attack, right?

Range Null is a leader skill on [Devil] Succubus, [Undead] Haunted House, [Undead] Undead Lord, and [God] Seraph and a natural skill on [Demihuman] Horus. Could be more. Sub-commander Regina gets it as a title skill, and Cheerful Gal Sylvia has it as a leader skill. Also granted by R12 shield and R10 vestment.

Flank Null is a leader skill on too many common units to name. Haven't found it as a natural skill yet. For (sub-)commanders, both Cheerful Gal Sylvia and Doris have it as a natural skill. Also granted by R12 shield, R11 armor, and R11 beast accessory.

I found an enemy battalion with flank attack D2 and ranged attack D3. And then I experimented with every possible combinations and positions to arrive at the rules. Just the key points.

D1 has VH, flank, ranged null. D2, D3 has nothing. D2 D3 gets hit.

Change D2 D3 to have responding ranged/flank null. VH redirects attack to D1.

Now figure out the targeting rules on D1 after VH activates by moving units and skills around. I was extensive here, but I hope I don't have to write all the minor adjustments to rule out everything. I already had a hunch because my original set up used a decoy in position 1 and I found that my vanguard tank was always blocking for the decoy even when blocking attacks from other divisions. This wouldn't be possible unless they were picking new targets after VH triggered. I just tested to confirm it and rule out other possibilities.

 

[qwertdewq]

Hi. Sorry if this has been talked already, but i failed in searching.
I REALLY wanna start this game but i have no idea how do i even begin to balance my squads given that i have about 100 creatures i can hire and how many things every creature have. There is so much stuff i need to think about my head hurts
Maybe this game is just not for me or maybe i'm overthinking it but can someone tell me please how am i supposed to put them together? Does any of it matter early game? By mid or late game are you supposed to have several strong battalions while swapping members for the new ones or you need to unlock everyone and for every fight you mix and match your squads?
Sorry again and thanks.

 

[desmosome]

Hi. Sorry if this has been talked already, but i failed in searching.
I REALLY wanna start this game but i have no idea how do i even begin to balance my squads given that i have about 100 creatures i can hire and how many things every creature have. There is so much stuff i need to think about my head hurts
Maybe this game is just not for me or maybe i'm overthinking it but can someone tell me please how am i supposed to put them together? Does any of it matter early game? By mid or late game are you supposed to have several strong battalions while swapping members for the new ones or you need to unlock everyone and for every fight you mix and match your squads?
Sorry again and thanks.

It's incredibly complex. There is no way someone can list all the mechanics. This type of game will appeal to someone who likes complex team building games where you try to find good synergies.

Just take a dive at it and ask specific questions if you find something confusing. If you don't care about understanding and having fun with the battle system, you could just play on easy mode to see the story.

As for the units, you will be frequently swapping out units as better ones get unlocked, but not every battle or something. New units start at lvl 1, but after they get carried by your lvled up party for 1-2 fights, they will start being viable. Low lvl units lvl up incredibly fast when put into battle to catch up eventually.

Just make sure to hire units when they have red smily face because that affects their starting stats. Smily face changes based on the day and unit affinity.

 

[ShinV]

Hi. Sorry if this has been talked already, but i failed in searching.
I REALLY wanna start this game but i have no idea how do i even begin to balance my squads given that i have about 100 creatures i can hire and how many things every creature have. There is so much stuff i need to think about my head hurts
Maybe this game is just not for me or maybe i'm overthinking it but can someone tell me please how am i supposed to put them together? Does any of it matter early game? By mid or late game are you supposed to have several strong battalions while swapping members for the new ones or you need to unlock everyone and for every fight you mix and match your squads?
Sorry again and thanks.

First order of business: always create 1 of every locked Tactica so you can see the full range of available units. Always recruit on days when they have a red smiley for status (matching affinity to moon guarantees this; ex. Fire-affinity units on Fire moons). Don't expect too much from 1 or 2-cost units. You have more than enough resources to field more powerful units and should be swapping them out as you unlock better ones (every couple of missions, based on Law/Chaos gain).

At minimum, all functional divisions are made up of a tank and at least one attacker. Generally, you have a Guarder who blocks attacks against everyone else as long as it is at the front (first slot) of the division, and everyone else in the division is either an attacker or supporting the attacker(s).

Take some time to explore the different soldier types (not to be confused with unit "types"/races, the little icons beneath stats) and familiarize yourself with the common types/races within a category. For example, Demihumans are pretty much all Male or Female, and have the Demon type plus Beast, Nature, and/or Aqua. Type-matching is a big part of teambuilding.

Commander units like Leonhardt often come with powerful leader skills that help you build squads around them. Several units have skills called "_ Boost" or the more powerful "Command _", where the blank is a unit type. Leon's Command Division and Anora's Squad Boost are the universal versions of these skills that work on every unit. Your divisions should be made of units who share types and have Boost/Command skills for those types.

Spoiler: Example starting divisions

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There's a lot more stuff like Alteration, skills from equipment and titles, Day/Night, decoys (how targeting works), non-standard attacks (flank, ranged, and area attacks), and sustain (healing, ailments, and continuous damage), but you can learn those as you go. More importantly, you won't be brick-walled by not knowing about them, at least not as early as you would by throwing random units together.

 

[Perveckt]

Hi. Sorry if this has been talked already, but i failed in searching.
I REALLY wanna start this game but i have no idea how do i even begin to balance my squads given that i have about 100 creatures i can hire and how many things every creature have. There is so much stuff i need to think about my head hurts
Maybe this game is just not for me or maybe i'm overthinking it but can someone tell me please how am i supposed to put them together? Does any of it matter early game? By mid or late game are you supposed to have several strong battalions while swapping members for the new ones or you need to unlock everyone and for every fight you mix and match your squads?
Sorry again and thanks.

If you play on normal it seems you can make it through with out to much trouble so long as you get units that buff others of their type look for units that have boost what ever and you should be fine tho some fights are pretty hard. i haven't messed to much with items either at this point and just finished the last dark lord i have to beat.

 

[Vanndril]

Have you tested this? If we need ranged null on each division, it might throw a wrench into the whole thing lol. Ranged null seems extremely rare. I can't think of many units that have ranged null. Horus, haunted house with leader skills are 2 that show up on my search. I wish non-hired units can be searched for skills. What an oversight. I'm not sure if there are any units with range null in the list of non-hired units, but it can't be more than a couple.

I have tested this, yes. When I gave a protected division Range Null so that Vanguard's Honor would activate, the enemy then attacked the Vanguard division with that Ranged Attack notice popping up near their attacker.

Ranged Null is excruciatingly rare. In fact, I hired every single unit (locked my currency values with Cheat Engine - a lot more effort than it should have taken, but was worth it) specifically so I could search through their skills and types to compose my NG+ teams. When I was looking for Ranged Null, it was nearly exclusive to Division Leader skills, and there was only about one row of units displayed that even had it at all.

The highest tier of Shields has one shield (that you can only have 1 of!) that gives Ranged Null. The third highest tier of Vestments also has one with Ranged Null (you can have up to 3 of these). Those are the only sources of it that I recall aside from Division Leader skills. I did not find any Tactica that give Ranged Null (and I have them all).

To be completely frank, it is impossible to have more than one full battalion (1 from shield, 2 from vestment = 3 divisions, 1 vestment left over) covered by Ranged Null from non-Leader Skill sources. I believe there may have been just enough units with it as a Leader Skill to make an additional 8 or so divisions with it, for a total of 12 (which is enough). That said, I do not yet have a fair number of the unlockable unique units, some of which may have Ranged Null.

To add, Flank Null is in a similar boat (rare, found mostly in Division Leader skills, and 5 pieces of equipment).

And to be fair, this is a good thing. Perfect Vanguard's Honor across four battalions of three divisions each would be insanely overpowered.

 

[greenlittleman]

After numerous attempts of finishing the Chapter 2/ The Necro Lord I give up. How im supposed to win this event battle against the battleship if my army looks like that one turn into the battle? View attachment 1525565
I'd appreciate some protips or in worst case scenario way to cheat my way out of this fight. Difficulty is hard btw

Spoiler

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I'm surprised that you've made it so far on Hard. I'm pretty much sure that in the original Hypno things weren't as badly balanced and it seems that even Very Hard and Thanatos were doable without inheritance. From my understanding the international release kind of fucked up difficulty levels, so yeah. I'm playing on Hard with partial carry-over (from dying at chapter 2) and bonus resources and it's still hard to get S+ ratings on some maps. The problem with this game is that normal is too easy but hard is too hard at the beginning. Well, perhaps Hard is easier to do if you choose to conquer Rakshasa first as they are the weakest by far. Necrograd has too many OP units and Mechanical Boost, while Archlond has freaking dragons.

 

[Vanndril]

ShinV, do you happen to know if there's a difference between Boost and Command skills? I always just assumed Squad Boost does what Command Division seems do based on its tooltip. Also wondering if Stat Formation skills affect the entire division or just the lone unit. If you have the answers to these two things, I'd appreciate it.